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Dino Talk Apr. 7-12, 2002: A Dinosaur Forum


"In JPIII Spinosaurus had a crocidile like snout. I would like to know if anyone knows if this is true? Or is it just Hollywood?
Could it beat the T Rex?"

Oh great; you're back!

Tip: Never beleive anything you see in a JP movie. Ever.

But Spinosaurus aegyptiacus and S. morroccensis both had elongated, crocodile - like snouts lined with eighty or so long, straight teeth. I'd say the JPIII Spinosaurus was reasonably accurate in terms of appearance. Do you guys agree?

However, Spinosaurus could not beat T - rex in my opinion.

One of two outcomes I think:

1) They would not fight. Even if T - rex heals really well and is what you would call "cold blooded," I'm sure he would not want to risk serious injury in a fight. Either would spinosaurus. What's more with Spinosaurus' tall, blood - filled sail, It could display to the T - rex and the T - rex may well get discouraged from starting a fight, although it has much stronger jaws, which seems to be the HRF's main argument. Anyway, the T - rex doesn't know that it has the strongest jaws of any living animal, and considering it never met Spinosaurs since it lived at a different time in a different place it would certainly not know and be very wary about this new opponent.

2) T - rex is not much stronger than spinosaurus, and although it could crush Spinosaurus' neck with one bite, it would itself get very injured by Spinosaurus' retaliation. But T - rex has one more advantage: Spinosaurus' sail, which I talked about earlier. Although it is a useful display tool to signal to one another and to other animals to make itself seem bigger and stronger, it is full of blood vessels, veins and arteries. If that very fragile sail got ripped, or torn, or damaged in any way, then Spinosaurus would very soon bleed to death.

So although the T - rex emerges the winner, I wouldn't say that it's as clear - cut as the HRF would put it.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; April 12, 2002


"I'm almost done with the first chapter of my new DWF story, and I already finished the prolugue. Expect it in by tomorrow."

Great! I keep going on the computer to write more story, but I have too little willpower to stop myself playing Unreal Tournament instead. Blasted computer games, if you're an addict expect your life to be destroyed.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; April 12, 2002


JC, help! Two of my dino stories are gone, and the story I recently posted won't show up!
from Joe Bob B., age 11, Menlo Park, ?; April 12, 2002
It's fixed. JC


"The Ceratosaurs were more primitive and more rare."

Hmm, we can't be totally 100% sure of this. Despite there being a great chance of this being true, we may not have the full picture. The fossil record is very patchy and incomplete.

But I agree that it was much more primitive; it's four fingered hands betray it's closeness to the Herrerrasauria.

What I don't get is the "neoceratosauria," which allegedly contains Dilophosaurus! Where exactly in the theropod cladistics are the "neoceratosauria" and what do they contain? I'm not very clear on that.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; April 12, 2002


"Just having a couple more people would be good thing.
My number of posts before I leave for Paris is limited, so I'd better make the most of it.
If someone were to say to any one of you: "Allosaurus was a scavenger because it could not hunt well and T-rex was more advanced" what would you reply? I'm trying to get more discussion going, I don't really believe the sentence in quotations."

Aw, I've actually had enough drilling my points to do with this into the HRF' skulls! Just because one animal is better than another does not mean that the first animal is weak. OK a tiger can kill a wolf, but that does not mean that the wolf is a scavenger, nor does it mean that it is a "rubbish" hunter. And yes, I do realise that you do only wrote the sentence to get a discussion going, but in this case our views are the same, so there will be no discussion. Probably.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; April 12, 2002


In JPIII Spinosaurus had a crocidile like snout. I would like to know if anyone knows if this is true? Or is it just Hollywood?
Could it beat the T Rex?

from Ian, age 8, North Vernon, IN, USA; April 11, 2002


"'And your going to Paris Tim?"

Yup. I'm going to Paris for a little over a week. In fact, I'm leaving later today.

Allosaurus was the largest and most powerful predator of its time. The Ceratosaurs were moree primitive and more rare. I'm glad you responded to that post, Tom G.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; April 11, 2002


If someone said "Allosaurus was a scavenger because it could not hunt well and T-rex was more advanced" to me i would say this.
what makes you think Allosaurus didn't hunt well? Its was one of the most advanced large predators of the Jurassic and (as far as I know) the most succesful large predator of the jurassic so I think it did hunt well. T rex and Allosaurus hunted in different ways so they evolved in different ways and evolution would be pretty stuffed up if T rex wasn't a bit more advanced than Allosaurus because there's about 80 million years between them. And your going to Paris Tim?

from Tom G, age 13, Thames coast, Waikato, New Zealand; April 10, 2002


I'm almost done with the first chapter of my new DWF story, and I already finished the prolugue. Expect it in by tomorrow.
from Joe Bob B., age 11, Menlo Park, ?, ?; April 10, 2002


Just having a couple more people would be good thing.
My number of posts before I leave for Paris is limited, so I'd better make the most of it.
If someone were to say to any one of you: "Allosaurus was a scavenger because it could not hunt well and T-rex was more advanced" what would you reply? I'm trying to get more discussion going, I don't really believe the sentence in quotations.

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; April 10, 2002


"What is the name of the encyclopedia are we arguing over? I've seen some bad childish dinosaur books use the word "encyclopedia" in the title.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; December 30, 2001"

On a different topic; this is the last ever post here by Brad, December 30th, before the change.

Sigh. I'm really missing these discussions.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; April 10, 2002


"And Marsh was quite a biggie at the time so I thought that it could be him."

As I said, you weren't far from being right, it was a good guess
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; April 9, 2002


"Good guess, but it was Harry Govier Seeley in 1877."

Aw! Just I knew that after all those really big finds by Cope and Marsh in the Bone Wars, like ceratopsian and lambeosaurine dinosaurs, and large sauropods and theropods, the saurischia and ornithischia where made because you could really see the difference between the two sub orders.

And Marsh was quite a biggie at the time so I thought that it could be him.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; April 9, 2002


"Othneil Charles Marsh, I think, in the year..."

Good guess, but it was Harry Govier Seeley in 1877.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; April 8, 2002


"D'oh, "present PERFECT," I meant!"

It can be confusing when there's also PERFECT and IMPERFECT, two different past tenses. I also sometimes get confused when thinking about the different Declinations and Cojugations, like the -a declination and the -us declination
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; April 8, 2002


"Let's see who can answer this: Who first divided the Dinosauria into the Ornithischia and the Saurischia and when did he do it?"

Othneil Charles Marsh, I think, in the year...

well, I don't like taking risks in trivia.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; April 8, 2002


"present prefect"

D'oh, "present PERFECT," I meant!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; April 8, 2002


"It's Mega Anna."

Oh, thanks. Annum is the present prefect tense, isn't it?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; April 8, 2002


"Mega Annum or something)"

It's Mega Anna.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; April 8, 2002


Let's see who can answer this: Who first divided the Dinosauria into the Ornithischia and the Saurischia and when did he do it?
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; April 7, 2002


Most large vertebrates that travel in large groups travel in groups all the time, and we know that sauropods travelled in groups at least some of the time. Also, large vertebrates that travel in herds generally protect their young. Yes I'm thinking mainly about elephants.

Also, remember my theory? Well, if it's true, allosaurus wouldn't need to eat so often, and could survive very bad injuries. So it may well have attacked sick and young sauropods in small groups.

Another point is that dinosaurs could have changed. By the cretacious they may already have been endotherms; nobody has measured the predator - prey ratios then. They didn't all have to be ectotherms all the time. I was only talking about the late jurassic in my theory. (When I was talking about T - rex I was just speculating.)

Another point is that I could be wrong. It's unlikely in my opinion that I'm wrong about the herbivores, especially the giant sauropods, but in the case of Allosaurus I am kinda taking a risk.

Remember, most of the carnivores for late jurassic times come from that tar pit or something, where something like 64 Allosaurs died.

I can't remember the details, (help me out Tim if you can,) but that figure would significantly increase the ammount of carnivores for the late jurassic USA fossil record. Herbivores would only get stuck occasionally, whilst wading too deep into the water and getting stuck in the tar. Carnivores would be attracted in large quantities, all that meat just lying there would seem to the Allosaur to be just pleading to be eaten! So all these Allosaurs would probably increase the ammount of carnivores in the late jurassic USA fossil record by about TEN TIMES, and distort the predator - prey ratio in the fossil record unnaturally and quite considerably. If you subtract most of these Allosaurs from the fossil record, YOU GET AN ENDOTHERMIC PREDATOR - PREY RATIO!

But please remember that that says nothing about the herbivores. Whether the Allosaur is eating an endothermic or ectothermic Camptosaurus really does not matter to the Allosaur.

But the predator - prey ratio is now endothermic, unless someone comes up with something else interesting!

Also, I can't remember if I have already made this point or not:
T - rex did not use it's arms for ANYTHING, that's why they are so small!!!

The arms from 75ma (Mega Annum or something) and 65ma Tyrannosaurs should be compared. I bet that the 65ma Tyrannosaurus' arms will be smaller than the Tyrannosaur from 75ma.
from da masta, age 14, Birmingham, ?; April 7, 2002


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