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Dino Talk Mar. 21-31 2002: A Dinosaur Forum


"You really ought to consider seeing it. It's awesome."

Next time I'm in London(which undoubtledly will be a while from now) I'll check it out.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 30, 2002


"A set of magnificent antlers from Megaloceras sp., the "Giant Elk.""

There's very nice Natural History museum in Dublin, too. I saw a fully mounted skeleton of Megaloceros there.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 30, 2002


"Notice how they all end in -pus, that is _pes_, "foot" in latin. _Wintopus_ and _Tyrannosauropus_ are only known from that particular trackway!"
Yeah. It's called Ichnotaxonomy(and of course there are ichnogenera and such). I've heard about a certain Tyranosauripus from New Mexico.

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 30, 2002


"Tim M.,stop ignoring me!!!!"

Hmmm... Why do I get the feeling that this wasn't the REAL Tom G.?
I don't really think it's you Tom, but just in case, I'm not ignoring you.

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 30, 2002


I went to the Natural History Museum yesterday, in London.

I spent eight and a half hours there!

Although it has sections about almost all sciences you can think of, I spent most of my time there at the extinct ecosystems section.

I'll try and remember what they've got (if it doesn't say "cast" then it's the actual specimen):

1) An adult Diplodocus Carnegii (cast.)
2) A glyptodont.
3) A Mammuthus primigenius skull.
4) A Coelacanth (Latimeria sp.) in ethanol.
5) An Elephant Bird egg.
6) A fossil temnospondyl.
7) Two sets of fossilised footprints, one is a cast of part of the famous one from Lark Quarry in Australia, where the small dinosaurs Wintopus and Saltopus stampede past the large carnivore Tyrannosauropus. (Notice how they all end in -pus, that is _pes_, "foot" in latin. _Wintopus_ and _Tyrannosauropus_ are only known from that particular trackway!
8) A set of magnificent antlers from Megaloceras sp., the "Giant Elk."
9) A Cast of an adult Camarasaurus.
10) The remains of an Euoplocephalus sp., lying on it's right side.
11) A cast of a fossilised Coelophysis sp.
12) Two Hypsilophodon foxii, one adult, one juvenile.
13) A cast of an adult Triceratops sp.
14) A cast of Deinocheirus sp. arms.
15) Two Iguanodon berssadensis, (spelling?) a juvenile and a cast of an adult.
16) A cast of an adult Allosaurus fragillis.
17) A cast of an adult Toujiangosaurus.
18) A cast of an adult Massosspondylus.
19) A cast of an adult Albertosaurus (is it gracilis?)
20) Three casts of Dromaeosaurus sp.
21) A cast of an adult Gallimimus Bullatus.
22) The cast of an adult Baryonyx walkeri.
23) 3 animatronic Deinonychus, an animatronic T - rex and an animatronic Edmontosaurus.
24) The skull of an adult male Parasaurolophus walkeri.
25) The skull of an adult Centrosaurus sp.
26) The cast of a skull of an adult T - rex.
27) The cast of a skull of an adult male triceratops.
28) The skull of Pachycephalosaurus wyomingensis.
29) Fifty or so marine reptiles, including 3 species of Icthyosaur, 3 species of Plesiosaur, several mosasaurs (Platycarpus sp.) and various marine crocodiles, notably Mystriosaurs sp.
30) 2 species of giant ground sloth, including a cast of the giant Megatherium americanum.
31) And much, much more just my fingers are getting tired!

You really ought to consider seeing it. It's awesome.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 30, 2002


Just to add to Tim's earlier post, I have something to say.

If T - Rex was ectothermic - that is, could not control it's own body heat - (like a reptile) then it could survive on carrion, as reptiles need to eat about ten times less than mammals.

But if T - rex was an endotherm - "warm - blooded" - then it would certainly need to hunt to be able to get enough food.

If T - Rex was an ectotherm, like a reptile, it wouldn't need to move around much, but why all the adaptions for speed then?

And it's arguable that as it was much warmer and sunnier then, T - Rex could be an ectotherm. If a reptile has charged itself up well with solar energy it can move very fast. But haven't large predatory dinosaurs been found in arctic and antarctic regions?

And the predator - prey ratios then, that is how many predators there are compared to herbivores, seem to be more reminiscent of a communtiy of mammals than a community of reptiles.

What's more, well, we all know how evolution works. Animals with better adaptions get to breed more, thus passing on their good traits to their offspring, the ones with the best adaptions passing on their genes, and so on. So, if T - Rex was a scavenger, then why all the adaptions to be an active hunter? As T - rex was so well evolved to attack and kill it's prey, then it's ancestors must have by means of natural selection selected the animals with the best adaptions to hunt and kill to breed and to pass on their genes to their offspring, and as the years passed, natural selection created T - rex.

Makes sense, huh?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 30, 2002


"If T-rex could take three steps per second it could reach about 29 miles per hour."

I don't think that four steps per second is very realistic for T - rex, so I think that it just increased it's stride length after that.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 30, 2002


"Also, T-rex had plenty of killing tools. One could argue that modern day animals that have strong jaws, like Hyeanas and Tazmanian devils are mostly scavengers, but Sharks also have strong jaws."

Aw, Tim, I can't beleive that YOU beleive that hyaena stereotype!

Hyaenas hunt often themselves, and they scavenge no more than lions do. In fact it isn't a rare thing that lions steal hyaena kills!

T - Rex may well have been like a hyaena, hunting, and not passing down the chance to scavenge, either.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 30, 2002


"No! I've just been busy!"

Uh, I didn't mean you.

I meant Tom G, Gianna and Joe Bob.

But I think I'm wrong because they're not talking to each other or you, either.

And I'm too paranoid, I should relax.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 30, 2002


Um, Tom, I don't think Tim is ignoring you because, well, he answered your question about T-rex being a scavenger.

I like your reasons, Tim, they are convincing.
from Gianna, age 11, RaptorRex, dinoWORLD, ?; March 29, 2002


If T-rex could take three steps per second it could reach about 29 miles per hour.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 29, 2002


"On Sunday I went to the museum of natural history.At thier dino section,I asked one of thier people that work there,if T-Rex was a scavenger or not.And all of them said he was.So is he?"

I definetly don't think so. That's the opinion of that's museum's staff, I guess. Most people in Paleontology think it was both predator and scavenger. To quote Jack Horner : "There's a debate going on which I am on one side of and virtually everyone else in Paleontology is on the other side."

Gianna wanted to here this evidence, so I'll do it now.

Reason 1: In recent years, Ken Carpenter discovered and studied a Hadrosaur Caudal Vertebra that was litterally severed in half. There was bone regrowth around the damaged area, proving the animal was alive when the damage was done. In the video tape "Ultimate guide to T-rex", Carpenter demonstrated how a T-rex tooth fits perfectly into the wound. He also stated that "no other animal at that time was capable of doing that damage."

Reason 2 : T-rex shows physical capabilities of a predator. It had a good chance of being fast. It had long, gracile, yet powerful limbs. It had a long tail, and hollow bones. And it's Femur-Tibia ratio isn't too bad. Add it up and you can see that T-rex had a good chance of being fast. Studies on Sue the T-rex suggest that T-rex had an average stride of 16 ft. Which would mean by taking two steps per second, T-rex could travel at 10 m per second, which is about 21 miles per hour. That's about as fast as the fastest human sprinter.
Also, T-rex had plenty of killing tools. One could argue that modern day animals that have strong jaws, like Hyeanas and Tazmanian devils are mostly scavengers, but Sharks also have strong jaws.

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 28, 2002


Tim M.,stop ignoring me!!!!
from Tom G., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 28, 2002


"TIM, YOU MAKE
MISTAKES LIKE THAT TOO. WHEN I'M TYPEING FAST I DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME TO THINK"

Ohhh... It was a typo. I thought you might have known about something real called Ursus arctis, but you had confused it with Ursus arctos in your post. I didn't mean to correct your typo.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 28, 2002


"Ah, you confused _Senonian_ with _Santonian_ Tim!"

Right. Thanks. Otherwise my Geologic stages of the Cretaceous knowledge is fine.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 28, 2002


"I've been SENT to COVENTRY by you three for not doing more story or something like that?"

No! I've just been busy!
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 28, 2002


On Sunday I went to the museum of natural history.At thier dino section,I asked one of thier people that work there,if T-Rex was a scavenger or not.And all of them said he was.So is he?
from Tom G., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 28, 2002


Ohhh, right, I get it.

I've been SENT to COVENTRY by you three for not doing more story or something like that?

Or maybe I'm just paranoid.

Well, Today's the first day of my Easter Holidays so I'll get to improve what I've written, add more, send it, and finish my picture and send it!

Goodness knows what I wouldn't do for more people to come here...
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 28, 2002


Ah, you confused _Senonian_ with _Santonian_ Tim!

But yes, bees first arose around that time.

Termites have been around since the triassic!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 27, 2002


"4) I believe it's Ursus arctOs. But I wanted to confirm it. So I did a Google search.
"Ursus arctos" recieved about 9,200 results, while "Ursus arctis" recieved 55. But otherwise I agree. *TIM, YOU MAKE MISTAKES LIKE THAT TOO. WHEN I'M TYPEING FAST I DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME TO THINK, (I DO THAT WHEN I READ THE MESSAGES!) AND MISTAKES ARE INEVITABLE.*

5)After you asked that trivia question on the stages of Cretaceous, I memorized them in order. But now I think I've forgotten some of them. The Senonian was after the Coniacian and before the Campanian, right?
Oh, and yes, I agree."

SENONIAN IS THE LAST EPOCH OF THE CRETACIOUS PERIOD. THE EPOCHS OF PERIOD K GO:

NEOCOMIAN (1ST)

GALLIC (2ND)

SENONIAN (3RD)

AND THE STAGES ARE:

BERRIASIAN
VALANGINIAN
HAUTERIVIAN
BARREMIAN
APTIAN
ALBIAN
CENOMANIAN
TURONIAN
CONIACIAN
SANTONIAN
CAMPANIAN
MAASTRICHTIAN

NOTE: PLEASE IGNORE TYPOS!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 27, 2002


"1) Maybe not raking leaves down from trees, but pulling branches into reach, certainly.

2) Inter-species competition.

3) Driving away predators.

4) Although you could argue that this is one of the purposes that comes under "inter-species competion," I think it's worth mentioning. Like modern grizzly bears, _Ursus arctis_, they could have raked tree bark to show territory if they where territorial.

5) Therizinosaurids had strong jaw muscles. If they had a long tongue, they could eat honey, (bees arose around the late Senonian,(very late creatacious) didn't they?) and termites, so they might have used the claws for that too."

1)Why not?

2)Definetly.

3)Uh-Huh.

4) I believe it's Ursus arctOs. But I wanted to confirm it. So I did a Google search.
"Ursus arctos" recieved about 9,200 results, while "Ursus arctis" recieved 55. But otherwise I agree.

5)After you asked that trivia question on the stages of Cretaceous, I memorized them in order. But now I think I've forgotten some of them. The Senonian was after the Coniacian and before the Campanian, right?
Oh, and yes, I agree.

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 26, 2002


"I think that therizinosaurids where, well, maybe not nothing to do with the oviraptosaurs, but not near them on a taxonomy tree.

They may be quite close on a cladogram, but I think that the differences between therizinosaurids and oviraptosaurs where quite significant."

Yes, I agree. But you could compare the relations in between Therizinosaurs and Oviraptorids to relations within the Perrisodactyla.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 26, 2002


"I'm a big fan of National Geographic. I recieve their monthly magazine and have watched many of there shows and own many of their videos. I also get Scientific American as well. Animal Planet is great, but I don't have cable so I don't see it very often."

I love the National Geographic tune! It's wicked! It's just SO National Geographic!

I don't get any magazines regularly, =( but maybe I'll subscribe in the near future. At least the school library gets the _Wildlife_ magazine, which you're not even allowed to take home.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 26, 2002


I'm a big fan of National Geographic. I recieve their monthly magazine and have watched many of there shows and own many of their videos. I also get Scientific American as well. Animal Planet is great, but I don't have cable so I don't see it very often.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 26, 2002


"An attempt to start a new topic:

How do you think Therizinosauroids used their claws?
And do you think they were Oviraptorosaurs, along with the Elmisauridae (=Caegnathidae), and the Oviraptoridae? Or just a seperate group on the same Phylogenetic branch?"

I think that therizinosaurids where, well, maybe not nothing to do with the oviraptosaurs, but not near them on a taxonomy tree.

They may be quite close on a cladogram, but I think that the differences between therizinosaurids and oviraptosaurs where quite significant.

I think that they where a very versatile multi-purpose tool:

1) Maybe not raking leaves down from trees, but pulling branches into reach, certainly.

2) Inter-species competition.

3) Driving away predators.

4) Although you could argue that this is one of the purposes that comes under "inter-species competion," I think it's worth mentioning. Like modern grizzly bears, _Ursus arctis_, they could have raked tree bark to show territory if they where territorial.

5) Therizinosaurids had strong jaw muscles. If they had a long tongue, they could eat honey, (bees arose around the late Senonian,(very late creatacious) didn't they?) and termites, so they might have used the claws for that too.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 25, 2002


"Is it just me, or is nobody posting?"

No, your right, there are no posts apart from us.

I didn't post for the weekend because I was at my mum's.
She has a computer, but she also has cable. You can't tear yourself away from Animal Planet and National Geographic channel! Sorry.

Please come back everyone!

I hope it gets better at Easter. I'll be able to contribute loads of story and a picture, hopefully.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 25, 2002


Is it just me, or is nobody posting?
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 24, 2002


I'm back.So, whats happaning?
from Tom G., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 23, 2002


Actually, the change has its benifits. It has totally filtered all people who are, lets say, less pleasant individuals.

Like Joe Bob's impersonators, and the person who was preaching against me on the science forum.

But it is a shame that Brad and Honkie and other regulars have gone.

If we could clone dinosaurs exactly how they where, would you approve of it? I'm just wondering how many of you would approve. I don't think I would as I am against all genetic technology, but the curiosity of what the diosaurs where really like would be killing me!

Dinosaurs where the equivalent of mammals in the mesozoic!

Another geneered dinosaur I have come up with for my story is Phasmasaurus Wongii,
This nocturnal dinosaur displays phase polyphenism; because it hunts more efficiently in groups, when it is in a group it is very dark mottled light black in colour, (light for black, anyway, I know it doesn't appear to make sense, it's dark, but it isn't pitch black, is what I mean.) to help it to stalk it's prey. But when alone or in a small group, it is a bright luminescent white. This dinosaur is only a prototype so far, this feature was created in it so that when specimens where tested in the field, they could be easily located after and brought back to their cages. Because of this, this artificial species has a very low escape rate, in fact not a single specimen has been lost.

This dinosaur has been custom bred as a pack assassin, it swarms it's prey and delivers a toxic bite. It is only about 4m long, but about 2/3 of that is tail, as this creature is highly manouverable. I go over stuff that happens in the story in my head all the time, even though I haven't written for quite a while. I know what will happen quite far ahead, actually.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 22, 2002


An attempt to start a new topic:

How do you think Therizinosauroids used their claws?
And do you think they were Oviraptorosaurs, along with the Elmisauridae (=Caegnathidae), and the Oviraptoridae? Or just a seperate group on the same Phylogenetic branch?

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 22, 2002


"I don't like domestic cats because they damage indigenous wildlife!

AND they get support from cat-lovers!

As a rule I love all wild animals (without exception actually!) and I dislike domestic animals. I think that dogs, for instance, are cheaters in evolutionary terms. Now that people aren't animals, (for at least a few thousand years, actually,) we have certain responsibilities and costs, I beleive. As we have distanced ourselves from nature, we should NOT interfere with nature, I beleive, doing things like moving animals all over the planet where we like and hunting animals to extinction."

Definetly. Some of our neighbors dogs chase the deer away while they're eating, and other things in relation to what you said.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 22, 2002


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