Advertisement.

EnchantedLearning.com is a user-supported site.
As a bonus, site members have access to a banner-ad-free version of the site, with print-friendly pages.
Click here to learn more.

ad
(Already a member? Click here.)


You might also like:
THE EARTHSocial StudiesScienceToday's featured page: Non-Fiction Book Report Graphic Organizer Printouts



ZoomDinosaurs.com
CoolDino.com: Dinosaur Forums
VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE DINOSAUR DINO TALK:
A Dinosaur Forum
DINO SCIENCE FORUM DINO PICTURES/FICTION:
Post Your Dinosaur Pictures or Stories
The Test of Time
A Novel by I. MacPenn

ZoomDinosaurs.com
Dino Talk: A Dinosaur Forum: August 26-31, 2001

I saw this on the voting forum. It was signed "you idiots".

"First of all, I think all you people voting for stupid T. Rex or stupid Spinosaurus are all idiots!!!! Tyrannosaurus is boring looking and so last century. The only reason you people like them is because they were in JP3. Why don't you like stuff that's more original, like, say, I don't know, plant eaters? Meat eaters weren't the only dinosaur. Plus, meateater's were big meatheads. Most people would say that a meateater would just eat a plant eater, but what about the anklyosaurs, stegosaurs, segnosaurs, iguanadonts, sauropodomorphs, and many others that had a great offense or defense. Plus, plant eaters outnumbered meat eaters like 50 to 1, so plant eaters rule."

First, the only reason plant eaters outnumbered meat eaters was to ensure that the meat eaters thrived. Lets look at a food chain from the mesozoic. Plant>Stegosaurus>Ceratosaurus. The plant receives energy from the sun. When the Stegosaurus eats the plant, 10% of the energy from the plant is passed on to the stegosaurus. Later, when the ceratosaurus kills the stegosaurus and feeds, 10% of the energy that the stegosaur took in (1% of the original amount of energy taken in by the plant) goes to the ceratosaurus. Therefore, the Ceratosaurus would have to feed on a couple more Stegosaurus to have an adequate supply of energy. Thus, the would have to be many more herbivores than carnivores, some to feed the carnivores, others to reproduce and increase the population, so there are more herbivores to feed the carnivores.

Next, not all of us were drawn to Tyrannosaurus by the Jurassic Park film (though I can't say the same for the Spinosaur fans). I have been a fan of dinosaurs (T. rex in particular) for as long as I can remember, and I stil have the books and toys of them from when I was younger.

Furthermore, Tyrannosaurus wasn't last century, he was last era (how long ago do you think dinosaurs lived). And you say that Tyrannosaurus is boring looking? I'm sure you'd think differently if you came face to face with him. But the thing is, even if Tyrannosaurus was boring looking, his whole purpose wasn't to look cool. He was specialized to kill. Capable of out running any of those herbivores you mentioned and able to exert a force from his jaws still unmatched by even sharks today, I think Tyrannosaurus rex deserves al the respect we give him.

I may keep repeating these facts but it's because that people like you just won't listen. And how do you know that no one else likes herbivores? One of my favorite group of dinosaurs was the hadrosaurs.

When you look at the facts, the only idiot on this board is you, silly.
from Skeptic, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 31, 2001


Okay, here's a few of the fights that Kurt Angle would definitely lose, at least if he was in a REAL fight, not in the ring.

Kurt Angle vs. Bruce Lee(in a sawmill):Kurt Angle tries a really stupid wrestling move, which dosen't even work. Bruce Lee does one of his chi punches, and knocks Kurt 20 feet into a wood cutting machine. Bruce Lee in 5 seconds.

Kurt Angle vs. Jackie Chan(in a "Home Depot"):Kurt Angle jumps at Jackie, but Jackie runs to a display of saw blades. Jackie grabs them and throws them at Kurt. Kurt does a wierd little dance as he tries to dodge the saw blades, and then Jackie Chan activates a chainsaw. Jackie drops it and it goes across the floor toward Kurt. He tries to run, stumbles, and falls on his face. Jackie, meanwhile, finds a bunch of hammers, and he throws them, one by one, at Kurt's head. Most of them hit, and Kurt is badly hurt. Jackie Chan.

Kurt Angle vs. Silverback Gorilla(in the jungle):Kurt gets close to the gorilla, punches it, and is ripped in half. Silverback.

Kurt Angle vs. Utahraptor(anywhere):Kurt Angle gets close to the utahraptor and tries to punch it, but the utahraptor dodges it. The utahraptor disembowels Kurt and eats him. Utahraptor.

Kurt Angle vs. T-rex:Kurt wets his pants and tries to run away, but T-rex easily catches up and bites him in half. T-rex.
from Super Mario, age ?, Mushroom Kingdom, ?, ?; August 31, 2001


I will not tolerate you'r evil deeds,Honkie Tong! (GO AWAY!)
from Sean S., age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A.; August 31, 2001


Honkie Tong,if you ever post another picture like that,I will post a picture of Sue being nailed to a cross! Believe me,you'r not going to be very happy.(If you don't clean up you'r act,i'll do it!) Don't say I didn't warn you.
from doom and gloom, age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A.; August 31, 2001


I've made up my mind.I don't like spiny at all as much as I don't like spiny fans.
from Gloman, age 2222222223, ?, ?, ?; August 31, 2001


"Gigantosaurus is the largest carnivore. It grew to be 60 feet long, 35 feet tall, and was longer, stronger and faster than T. Rex. Too bad T. Rex fans. A new king lives, long live Gigantosaurus! Too bad it's reign didn't last very long, but it could beat Spinosaurus or T. rex in a fight."

Sorry, but there are so many things wrong with this statement that I don't even know where to start. First, Gigantosaurus wasn't 60 feet long, he was only 42 feet long ( or 43, it's somwhere around there) and I'm pretty sure it's not 35 feet tall, either. Nor was Gigantosaurus wasn't faster than T. Rex. Some may claim that he is, though, because Gigantosaurus is lighter, but those 8 tons on a Tyrannosaur are realy muscle and teeth. T. Rex had incredibly muscular legs which could help in, in short bursts, exceed 40 km/h, making him faster than most dinosaurs of his time. Gigantosaurus' lighter legs, however, were lightly built and weren't as muscular, most likely making him slower than a Tyrrannosaur. As shown in this case, you Spino and Gigo fans, lighter isn't always faster

I also doubt that Gigantosaurus' bite was stronger that T. Rex for two reasons. T. rex had a bite harder than any other known living animal today and his teeth were strong enough to crack bone. Gigantosaurus' teeth, however were meant to cut flesh, so after Gigo bit his prey, he could back off and let it bleed to death. If his teeth ever did penetrate to the bone, they'd break.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong. You simply made up all those facts. You're just one of those people who still accept T. Rex as a scavenger than for the fearsome predator he really was. Maybe you should join the Bob fanclub
from Skeptic, age 13, ?, ?, ?; August 31, 2001


It is generally agreed that the proper name for 'raptors is Dromaeosauridae. However, one of the alternate cladograms on the Dinosauricon shows Dromaeosaurus not as closely related to the traditional 'raptors, Deionychus and Velociraptor.

--Paraves
..|--Dromaeosaurus
..`--Eumaniraptora
.....|--Avialae
.....`--Deinonychosauria
........|--Deinonychus
........|--Saurornithoides
........`--Velociraptor

Does anyone know who supports this cladogram? I'm not sure where it might be from. In the event that this becomes accepted and Dromaeosaurus is separated from the Deinonychus group, what is the name of the 'raptor family? My best suggestion: Archaeopterygidae. :)
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; August 31, 2001


Hey Godzillasaurus, if the chart isn't real then how is it going to shed light on anything? :)
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; August 31, 2001


"(the overbite/receding chin notwithstanding)"

Hmm, I was starting out with some kind of Tyrannosaurid, hence the overbite, but the meshsmooth went nuts and ta-ta-ta! Allosaurus fragillis groofietus morph. Watch for more amazing Allosaurus pictures!
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; August 31, 2001


GIGANATOSAURUS IS THE LARGEST CARNIVOR. IT GREW 60 FEET LONG, 35 FEET TALL, AND WAS LONGER, STRONGER, AND FASTER THAN A T-REX. TOO BAD T-REX FANS. A NEW KING LIVES! LONG LIVE GIGANATOSAURUS. TOO BAD ITS REIGN DIDN'T LAST VERY LONG, BUT IT COULD BEAT A T-REX AND A SPINOSAURUS EASILY IN A FIGHT. NOW PROBABLY ALL OF YOU LIKE IT BETTER THAN T-REX I HOPE. ADUR P., AGE 10
from ADUR P., age 10, HICKSVILLE, NY, USA; August 31, 2001


Well I'm not firebird 2.0, my brother is. He thinks he's better than me, so he's a "2.0". He's also a brainless T.rex hater (not all of the T.rex haters are brainless, sometimes they bring up some good points). He's out to prove that "raptors" (as he calls them) are the best dinosaurs in the world, and they were invincible.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 31, 2001


I am just curious, but how on earth can HHH even expect to inflict anything resembling even slight bodily harm on T-Rex with his bare hands and nothing else? I doubt even a modern day hippo would allow him to do anything resembling a bruise on it, let alone a T-Rex. Prehaps the only thing HHH would do in this fight is to provide a free lunch, with his body as the main course.
from Tom, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 31, 2001


Vince, used to be known as HHH or Ross here, I'm afraid your points indicate a great flaw in the understanding of how reality works.

"Even if he could somehow get a punch or kick in, Kurt wouldn't even feel it."

This is extremely unlikely, Lee could actually put a L- shape bend into a metal bar 2 inches thick. Unless Kurt can wistand Ostriches kicking him, he's going to be in a world of hurt. Besides, martial arts don't concentrate on simply striking the opponent, they concentrate mainly on hiting him where he's the softest and weakest, the eyes, neck, limb joints, pressure points, groin...

"Bruce Lee was just a movie-boy."

This is very untrue, he was actually a dedicated matrtial arts exponent who happened to choose flim as a form of expressing his art. Off screen, he was formidible. He wasn't an actor who could fight, he was a fighter who could act. Of course, a simple movie boy would not be able to do chi-punches which could injure opponents without even touching them, kick 120 kilo punching bags thrown at him back three meters, put a bend in wrought iron bars, kick faster than camera shutter speeds, punch through 2-inch wood planes in a single blow, do dropkicks that can propel people back twenty feet, do immobiblise touches that could paralyze you by simply touching your acuipoints lightly, and the most dangerous death touch, in which simply by striking certain areas in the chest and neck rightly, would induce immediate unconsciousness, followed by certain death if remedial measures were not taken within two minutes, all this off camera and unplugged, and not in the movies. Gee, this sounds a lot like a movie boy. A ankle lock is a lot more dangerous.

Chances are, Kurt won't even know what hit him.

"Kurt actually went out and did something. Won a gold medal, amatuer championships and the WWF title."

You must remember that back then, there wasn't even the WWF, and being an asian, he was discriminated against back then and prevented by the government from doing anything too much that would impact too greatly on the wester worldview. Heck, there were no martial arts competitions back then! Lee was the one to introduce matrial arts itself to the states, and started the entire ball rolling. That is bigger than a gold medal and a WWF title. He wasn't even american just for your information.

" I've never seen a martial artist beat a wrestler in a mixed martial arts competition. Ever. Period. Enough said. "

If you do happen to see one martial artist beat a wrestle in a competition, chances are, the wrestler would be seriously wounded or dead. Martial arts are purely no-nonsense forms of combat that were designed to kill. I mean training dicates if some guy tries to grapple you with his arms, you usually have to do funny things to it and break or dislocate it, something which you can't do in a competition. The martial artists working in these competitions have to restrict themselves heavily to less-violent moves, which involve a few kicks and punches that are a not even a tenth of what they are capable off. If they brought out the entire art, and I mean all joint-strikes and acupi-point blows, eye gouge,finger breakers and so, your wrestler would be lying on the floor convulsing from overfiring nerve synapses and dislocated limbs. All a wrestler has to do is to pin the guy down, ohh, hard. If you are talking about the REAL world outside the wide world of sports, world of hurt for the wrestler.

"He's know for being able to take ungodly amounts of punishment. he once tore his quad (the big muscle in your leg) and still finished the match... including giving wrestler Chris Jericho a pedigree. the tear was later discovered to be 12 inches long! "

That reminds me, the injury was steroid abuse related. Gee, some hero you got there... and aren't you trying to argue that he could beat T-Rex? How just how can he survive getting half of his torso bitten off? A 12-inch tear is a nick by compairism.
from Tom, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 31, 2001


(This post actually has the topic of dinosaurs in it)

I used to learn wrestling and also martial arts like Akido. And from my prespective on these two methods of fighting, I can tell you the matrial artist will edge out a true wrestler in any real, no-holds-barred fight. I am a big wrestling fan, and stop insulting WWF! But I will be honest, actually, when it comes to REAL fighting ability, your record in the ring don't mean a thing.

I don't know that much about Bruce, but I do know enough to know that he is the hero of the asian people. It was him that broke down racial prejudices against asians in america by his special way of communication, and he dedicated his life to helping people, not proving he was the best. He was humble, and most importantly of all, did not believe in having to hurt others in order to win. That's why you don't see the good or best martial artists fight in the ring at all, it's severly discouraged by their disipline. Even martial artists in the ring have to limit themselves from doing most of their moves, for if they actually went all out, the results would be fatal. The intention of martial arts was not strictly not for display, but it was actually a method of killing other humans as quickly and brutally as possible. It's hardly something that you can really display all out in a ring, not unless you want to go postal and kill your opponent. The ring is after all, simply an area of ritualized combat with rules to avoid serious injury to the people taking part. But in a backalley and when anything goes, the martial artist will be going all out to kill his opponent, and that is very bad if the opponent has no such training in non-ritualized combat. Wrestling is a form of ritualized combat and contest, designed to mimize damage to both sides, but martial arts were designed to apply in situtation where you have, as a last resort, to really hurt people.

To find out how this applies, lets put this to a fight between Bruce and Kurt Angle in a ring. Firstly, this fight is unlikely as Bruce is not the type to fight simply for a contest. But Kurt will almost certianly win as Bruce will not be allowed to hurt him, as this is just a game. He can't go all out to kill, and he is severly limited by that. So Kurt Angle could pin him down and win the fight, and Bruce cannot do anything for the move he would have used in that situtation will kill his opponent. Kurt Angle excelled at a sport, and he would beat Bruce at that, but when it comes to killing, Bruce will have a massive advantage.

But lets say the two are fighting to kill, that will be a very bad thing for Kurt. Bruce can kick faster than the eye can see and he can actually propel 300 pounds with a kick 8 feet back. This is not the slow way you move a weight by a bench press, but the rapid way you move a mass via a kick. Such a powerful and fast kick will actually propel 250 pound Kurt back without even him having a chance to block or catch the incoming foot, (Bruce kicks two times faster than the typical human reaction time of 20 milliseconds). If the kick landed on a limb, like an arm or a leg, it would be certainly broken. Worse, Bruce can not only kick, he can kick were he wants to. Which in this case would be aimed for the neck or some area that would kill instantly, going by the force of the kick. And that's just the kicking. He had other styles that would kill a human instantly and rapidly. That's the reason why he refuses to fight unless it was absolutely necessary, he can easily kill and he knows that. And sheer strenght and brute force can be a drawback if the person is untrained. Aikido, which is a soft martial art, actually focuses mainly on turning your opponent's strength and brute force against himself via a clever use of physics. The stronger the oppoenent is, the more he hurts himself. So thought Kurt Angle may be immenesly strong and powerful, it could be a disadvantage towards him when he faces of against a person eqquiped with Aikido. From what I know, Bruce's style also involved some Aikido, so this would negate Kurt Angle's advantages in strength or speed. Silat (Which Honkie mentioned) also uses this to an extent, it was a matrial art designed specifically for taking down opponents much larger and more powerful than you, but I believe Silat is more dirty as it was a pure, no-show martial skill that involved the use of weapons. Kurt Angle is out of his turf when it comes to killing, he could snap a neck or beat someone to death if he wanted with his brute force, but when he's up against people who are specifially trained to kill with their bodies, he's going to be in big trouble. How can he grapple after all? When both of his arms are broken by a vicious twist move than worked on thwe elbow joint? That's a move you can't do in a wrestling ring, but when it comes to a real fight, you could do it, and that's what matters. And I think Kurt Angle knows this. He is a warrior of the ring, an area of ritualized combat. Bruce was a warrior of low-down, bottom-line, no-holds-barred, hit-below-the-belt combat. If there are no rules involved, like in a real fight, Kurt Angle will lose, or worse, be killed.

On HHH vs. T.Rex. I like HHH, and I think he'll kick the Rocks' butt. But isn't a 14,000 pound T.Rex too much for HHH? It's rather stupid to say that HHH would have an advantage against T.Rex because he could benchpress 400 pounds and had stronger arms. Firstly this is not true as T.Rex arms are powerfully muscled and could lift more than 600 pounds, easily, and secondly, T.Rex didn't attack with his arms at all! And the idea that he was a scavenger and would not know how to handle agression is also pretty moot, for the idea that T.Rex is a scavenger is certianly wrong, and even so, he would be a wild animal and would be extremely dangerous when provoked! Even vultures will be extremely vicious and mean when you disturb them! (I saw a clip of them attacking and seriously wounding a jackal when it tried to steal their scavenge) T.Rex agression has also been proven by finding injuries caused by fierce fights between T.Rexes, whatever it was, T.Rex was a very dangerous animal! Heck, just about any big wild animal is dangerous.

And I come to my next point, lets be realistic here, if he's engaging T.Rex unarmed, how the heck is he going to hurt the T.Rex? Could be punch it? Could he kick it? Sure, but how much is that actually going to hurt an 6-ton animal? Just go to the zoo and see if you can knock out an elehant with a punch. In fact, the T.Rex is just so big and massive that HHH or Kurt Angle or any human on his planet could strike away at him all day and not make an impression. Heck, the max HHH could bench press was what? 600 pounds? But how is that even going to bluge the 14,000 pound T.Rex an inch? Could be pedrigee the T.Rex? How can he choke-slam or do any of those cool moves on such an massive animal? On the other hand, I can easily imagine how T.Rex could hurt HHH badly. T.Rex could sideswipe him, ram him, kick him, step on him, or bite him, all of which HHH is not going to survive even one hit. Please, HHH is unbeatable facing humans, but not a T.Rex, the ultimate land carnivore. Could HHH lose a hand-to-hand fight to a small lab rat? No? Same way T.Rex is not going lose an unarmed combat fight with HHH. Plezzee, T.Rex was the HHH/Bruce Lee/Huang Fei Hong (whoever that is)/Mr Badass of the dinosaur world.

Ok, let's leave T.Rex out of the picture. Could HHH or Kurt Angle even win a unarmed fight against a Silverback Gorilla? Trained Silverbacks can easily lift 1,300 pounds, yes lift, not bench press slowly but lift it up easily. And these are just the medium sized ones. Can HHH or Kurt Angle even beat your typical Silverback, let alone the best? I think not. Let alone a 14,000 pound Tyrannosaurus rex. I'm a big fan of these wrestler cooldudes, but please don't make them look lame by pitting them against something way out of their league. And this happens to be Dinosaur talk, why don't you carry your statements to WWF?
from Jasee H., age 19, ?, Iowa, USA; August 31, 2001


"I got a question, is dilophasaurus really poisoness or do we not know and guess?"

So far, in all dilophosaurus remains dug up, there have been no signs that this creature could actually spit venom at it's prey. There are also no signs of where the dilophasaur could have stored such a thing. Although it is possible that one day an exceptional Dilophasuar may be found with remains and/or marks of poison coming from it, I think this is incredibly unlikely. The Jurassic Park 3 writers just wanted to spice up this average sized theropod, and make it more scary than it really was.
from Skeptic, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 31, 2001


Hello everyone, after reading all your facts about these dinosaurs, I can see that only a few people are true to dinosaurs. Well to first start off, what kind of paleontology is this. Spinosaurus this, T-Rex that, don't get me wrong, T-Rex is my fave dino, and Spinosaurus is a unique and awe dino as well. It seems to me, we've become more like a mob than trying to get actual real facts about these dinos. T-Rex and Spinosaurus never met eachother, we should just put it at that. In JP3, they made Spinosaurus extremely huge, and also the director himself said that they needed to make Spinosaurus bigger so he could look more ferocious than the T-Rex, mainly because they say they had overused the T-Rex in the last two movies. More over, JP3 is NOT and I repeat NOT real facts. Dilophosaurus<---did I spell that right? did not puke poision out of its mouth. Velociraptors are not six ft tall...and most of all, this is no Es La Sorna island, site B in there world with dinosaurs roaming around because John Hammil and InGen that they could tame them. So please, lets stop the bickering and get on with real facts about the dinosaurs, thank you for your time.
from Dinosaur fan, age 19, Green Bay, Wisconsin, U.S.A.; August 31, 2001


Hey everyone, I've been gone for a while, but I've gotta tell you.. This board has become pretty hillarious in my absence. Now with that said, where to begin...

To the Triple H groupie, personally I never had much respect for the guy, (or any other wrestler for that matter) but he showed everyone that he at least has guts after finishing a match against Jericho with a tron calf muscle. Which is the only real accomplishment that wasn't obviously scripted out that I've seen ever take place in the WWF. But get serious.. Triple H beating a T-Rex? Come on now.. That's boardering on insanity. It would be like a demented T-Rex groupie saying T-Rex could beat a Battleship. (Even thought it has been proven in an earlier thread that T-Rex could destroy the Death Star. heh, j/k. Anyone catch the T-Rex Vs. Darth Vader scene from Indian in the Cupboard?)

What in the world could a wrestler even DO to a six ton plus animal? Stick it in the eye? Triple H is an entertainer, and possibly (I say possibly because I personally know of no proof) that he is a somewhat adept athelte. But literally, what could he DO to a T-Rex? And no, high knee, pedigree, or any other wrestling move isn't even really an option. The only result that could come from even a well built human knee slamming into a T-Rex with any kind of decent force is the knee breaking apart. (I give triple H credit, but his legs aren't the best in the buisness.. Look at how easily he was injured when he simply performed a move incorecctly.)

As for the Pedigree.. forget about it. If he could even jump some twenty plus feet in the air (if he could he would be a basketball player instead and make way more money) to reach T-Rex's head, do you honestly think he could force it towards the ground? If faced even with a four ton, crazed African elephant, the Game would do what any other SANE human being would do. And that's run for his life as fast as his legs will carry him.

Now, moving onto some things that aren't absolutely ludicrous to even discuss... I found the Spinosaurus story written by Bob earlier to be fairly laughable. I fail to see how people not only continue to insist on incorecct jaw strengths for Spinosaurus, but also fail to realize that a T-Rex bite will destroy a Spinosaurus. (And any other living thing that was unlucky enough to receive one of these on flesh) You would think that by now they would learn to stop letting T-Rex get in bites. First Velociraptor, then Spinosaurus, then Giganotosaurus.. And now even Triple H? Ugh.. Who will be next? Steve Irwin?
from Usen, age 20, ?, ?, USA; August 31, 2001


I haven't read what you guys have wrote, but I love DINOSAURS. Jurassic Park is awesome...I personally like the velociraptor, utharaptorcrab,dilophosaurus, and many more! I have 3 hermit crabs ones Hammond, ones Muldoon and the last is utharaptor crab, i got a question, is the dilophosaurus really posoiness, or do we not know and guess??
from Angela, age 11, ?, NJ, America; August 30, 2001


Can't you do anything,productive,Honkie Tong?
from Sean S., age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A.; August 30, 2001


J.C.,you sound like you've gone pro t.rex,on me.(Whats up?)
from Sean S., age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A.; August 30, 2001
I have no idea what you're talking about. JC


I agree Will. I almost left this board because of the content recently...can we PLEASE get off the subject?
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 30, 2001


Hmmm, Bruce Lee vs the worlds greatest freestyle wrestler and gold medalist Kurt Angle.... Lee wouldn't have a chance. He'd be screaming in pain from an ankle-lock in 2 seconds. Even if he could somehow get a punch or kick in, Kurt wouldn't even feel it. Bruce Lee was just a movie-boy. Kurt actually went out and did something. Won a gold medal, amatuer championships and the WWF title.

I've never seen a martial artist beat a wrestler in a mixed martial arts competition. Ever. Period. Enough said.

And HHH could probaly beat Angle. He's not as quick but he's far stronger (he has a bench press of 700 pounds.... the world record is 800 and something) and has a whole arsenal of moves. He is a multiple time amatuer wrestling champ, the pinical of "real" wrestling, in additon to multiple time WWF champ. He's know for being able to take ungodly amounts of punishment. he once tore his quad (the big muscle in your leg) and still finished the match... including giving wrestler Chris Jericho a pedigree. the tear was later discovered to be 12 inches long! the doctor said 99.9% of the population would pass out from such pain. HHH is the game. straight up.

http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-3.jpg (the devasting pedigree)
http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-5.jpg
http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-1.jpg
http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-2.jpg

from Vince, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 30, 2001


This is NOT real but it could shed some light on this "T-rex was the Smartest Carnosaur.": IQ CHART: 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0.5.0 6.0 7.0 8.0 9.0
DogIQ:0.9
CatIQ:3.9
HumanIQ:9.0
UtahraptorIQ:9.0
SpinosaurusIQ:7.0
TroodonIQ:8.0
QuetzalcoatisIQ:5.0
DynamosaurIQ:3.0
ChardontosaurIQ:3.9
VelociraptorIQ:6.1
DeinochyIQ:5.3
ApatasaurusIQ:0.9
PostosuchusIQ:1.9
LeaIQ:8.9
O T H E R D I N OIQ:1.0-4.0
NO. Utahraptors are not that smart. It's really a chart for a DinoFanFic called "Mesozioc Park."
P.S: What is the largest Dromisaur?

from Godzillasaurus, age 9, ?, ?, ?; August 30, 2001


I'm sick and tired of this arguing. As far as I'm concerned,
T-rex, Spinosaurus, Giganotosaurus etc were all powerful animals.
I have seen Jurassic park 3 and the first one and the lost world,
and they were all cool. My favourite bit in JP3 was when a hunter walked into the woods and a muinite later he came screaming out with a wound on his arm and he was shouting at a plane that was about to take off,and he telling it to stop. And then at the last muinite the Spinosaurus stormed out of the woods and picked up the guy in his mouth. It was very impressive. I'm a big fan of Dinosaurs, ever since I was 7 years old.

from Will, age 13, ?, ?, United kingdom; August 30, 2001


Fantastic! Kurt Angle is EXACTLY the type of guy Bruce was best at beating: The overbuilt, overconfident, slow prey. Bruce in 1.25 seconds.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 30, 2001


JC, I suggest we block any more WWF related wrestling stuff. It's irrevelant, taking up bandwith, taking up space, and it the work of a single demented WWF fan who isn't even intrested in dinosaurs but to insult others and annoy everybody by putting up all his lame WWF stuff. There should be a tolerance to other people's views, but its apparent this person has no respect for anybody at all, rather, he is here to cause trouble. I could tolerate the Spino/Rex debate, but this WWF nonsense is downright outrages! This is supposed to be DINOTALK!

And I suggest you do your research before dismissing Bruce Lee, (which is I notice, his refrence to small puny people is actually a veiled racist refrence to the asian people)as a overrated, tiny, movie boy who could kick his little legs for the camera really fast. Why? Well you are obviously very unfamilar with what he could really do.

If you want to get under the skin of a Chinese guy, you're not going to shout out, "Hey Mister HHH!" You're going to shout out, "Hey Bruce Lee!" Is it because Bruce Lee was slower than HHH? No. Is it because Bruce Lee wasn't as good a fighter as HHH? No. Is it because Bruce Lee lost the role of Caine in Kung Fu to a guy that isn't even Chinese? No.

If you want to get under the skin of a Chinese guy, you're going to shout out, "Hey Bruce Lee!" because Bruce Lee has no sense of humor. The guy with no sense of humor will make sillier noises as he kicks your ass. Match goes to Lee.

It's mean streets if you're a Chinese guy named Bruce with no sense of humor.

Guys, let us be honest here and look at the facts. Yes HHH is one of the most fighting entertainers in the world and can really make impressive predigree moves look painful when they are actually quite harmless like no one else in movies today. To learn this we just have to watch the behind-the-scenes look at his pratice rigs with his friends (Who happen to become his "hated" opponent in the rings). But is all truth, the match would go to Bruce Lee. To prove this, I will state facts.

Fact: Bruce could punch and kick faster than the shutter speed of a motion picture camera. The camera speed is 24 frames of film per second. Bruce could literaly strike an opponent 'between' frames of film. Directors were constently telling him to slow down. Even when the filmed his attacks in slow motion, his body was a blur of motion and power.

Fact: Bruce could strike an opponent with a power that acknowleged martial arts masters such as Grandmaster Pan Ching Fu and Sifu Shi Youn Ming. can not match (and Pan is known as the Iron fist). Jujitsu Grandmaster Wally Jay attested to watching Bruce, from a standing position,kick a 300 pound body bag into a celling 7 to 8 ft off the ground (Remember that Bruce was only 5ft 4in and weighed about 135 pounds. Secondly, Bruce's hit's were so powerful that the actualy sent shockwaves though the water found in the human body (humans bodies contain close to 75% water). Put simply, the body would collapse.

Fact: Bruce is also, to date, the only one to successfully pull off the most coolest, badass fighting move known in all time: The One-Inch Punch. By summoning up chi energy in his fist, Bruce was able to blast his opponent across the room by just hitting him from a distance of ONE INCH! Let me illustrate this:

Bruce Lee's Fist |--One Inch--| Target And Bruce blew him away!!! That guy on the recieving end was a a judo expert heavier than Bruce, flew backwards, hit a wall and fall down NOTE: This was NOT in a movie, this was in a fighting exposition.

Fact: Unless his life or that of his family was threated, Bruce would rarely fight. Rather he would talk or joke his way out of a fight. He would often stop an opponent that was trying to attack him by pointing out any mistakes he made in their attack and would show them how to do it properly. How does this help? Unlike certain people who get into bar fights and then get beaten, this shows our character here takes life seriously and is not too humble to keep his powers under restraint. True masters have powerful disipline.

Was Bruce Lee unbeatable? Bruce himself would have told that he was far from the perfect fighter and that he could be beaten. But in this case, and I am positive that HHH would agree, the match would go to the Dragon.

As for Jacky Chan, he wasn't all that a great martial artist, he was after all, just a stunt man, abbet, a very clever one, be able to use anything, and I mean anything found in the urban enviroment as a weapon. If this match had taken place in a hardware store or a backalley cluttered with junk I'd have gone with Jackie Chan. Only MacGyver is more dangerous in a hardware store than him and that's because he could be a nuclear arsenal in there. In that case, HHH will find him arms constantly trapped within the rugs of a cleverly thrown and placed ladder or some tangley piece of furniture, himself slipping on marbles on the floor, dodging flying paincans launched by hardcover books, find himself constantly fustrated behind a chair that is kept being kicked in front of him, wondering why the heck he is juggling glass bottles of thinner, finding it extremely hard to grapple Chan due to expert hand work with a flimsly stool, finding himself constantly bonked on the head when he is tricked into chasing Chan into something hard and unrelenting, stepping on nails, dodging improvised chainsaws (which are actually hacksaw blades running on the motor of the convient lathe), trying to get expertly trust newspapers out of his eyes, tripping on a broomstick that was somehow wedged between his limbs and so on and so forth. He won't even have the time to grapple.

And if you are still stubbornly believing that HHH can even have a wisper of hope in prevailing, I give you three words to destroy your case: Huang Fei Hong.

Don't know him? No wonder you like HHH.
from Scott Chin, age 14, Midland, Mi, U.S.A; August 30, 2001


What's all this junk about some HHH guy beating a Tyrannosaurus Rex in a one on one? Come on, how absurd is that. Maybe he wasn't beaten up in a bar fight, but what would HHH do to T. Rex? Kick him in the leg? Step on one of his toes? And you expect T. Rex to pass out from a little bruise? The thing is, HHH would be swallowed whole before he could get close enough to T. Rex. He wouldn't even have to chew.
from Skeptic, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 30, 2001


the real deal. bruce lee wouldn't last 2 seconds against angle ha ha

http://www.kurtanglewwf.com

WWF rules!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 30, 2001


Ha Ha. Ross rules. He showed you people that have been monopolizing the board with all the T.Rex garbage. For all of you that don't know, the UFC is "real" fighting were boxers take on sumo who take on martial artists who take on wrestlers etc. etc. You can rent them in any Blockbuster. And yes, wrestlers always win while the "martial artists" do rather poorly. Whill the outcome of WWF matches are indeed "fake" the skills those wrestlers have are very, very real. Kurt Angle won the Olympic Gold Medal in freestyle wrestling while HHH is a national champ. Either would wipe the floor with the tiny Bruce Lee who was about 5 feet tall and 150 pounds and jumped around and kicked for movie cameras. Ha Ha Ha.

The perpetuation of the lie that HHH was in some bar fight shows how desperate T.Rex fans are. That is total fabrication. I would like for a T.Rex fan to post ONE news link that confirms this. But it won't happen as it is a lie. Or maybe T.Rex fans are so dim-witted as to confuse "HBK" with "HHH" ? They're dimwitted enough to like a big buzzard. Just like all the "facts" to "show" how T.Rex would beat Spino etc. are all made up, it's laughbale. T.Rex fans are a joke in the dino community. All they do is lie to help support the big scavenger.

Bruce Lee = a overrated, tiny, movie boy who could kick his little legs for the camera really fast. he could jump too. wow.

Jackie Chan = same as above

Kurt Angle = an Olymipc gold medalist who beat the worlds best

HHH = National amatuer champ, undefeated in the NCCA's

Ken Shamrock = the "worlds most dengerous man", UFC champion

summary.... WFF rules while tiny little martial artists get blown away by size, strength and speed grpplers like Kurt Angle and HHH. Ha Ha Ha.

Lane

...........................

Honkie Tong, you are the worst T.Rex homer here. All of you guys should start up your own "T.Rex Only" site. And what in the devil are you talking about? Oooooo.... that sounds sooooo bad. Ha Ha. Actually it was sorta funny. Like I said, go rent any mixed martial arts competition video or PPV and see how the wrestlers fare.... they DOMINATE. "Small and graceful", huh? Um, ok. That'll be useful when you're tapping out to a ankle-lock or a arm-bar. Size does matter dude, sorry. That's just life. Only good strikers (e.g. boxers) have done well against wrestlers... when getting a lucky shot in. But an experienced wrestler will take an opponet to the ground immeditly where it will be all over in a matter of seconds.

I suggest people stop talking about things they have no clue about. Want to see what happens when equally high skilled fighters of all disciplines get it on? Rent any UFC or other mixed competition. It's not that hard. Seeing for yourselves should hopefully mean alot more than listening to some people babble on a message board.

Honkie, I enjoyed the "small and graceful" thing... very amusing. It made me think of Royce Gracie... the world-reknown jiu-jitsu master and king of the "small and graceful" camp. He was UFC champ for a while, until he met his first real grappler by the name of Ken Shamrock (now in the WWF and still a MMA competitor) who wiped the floor with him. Gracie has since lost to several other grapplers he's faced. The UFC soon became domianted by grapplers. Ken Shamrock, by the way, has been beat several times by HHH in MMA compitetions.

And I laugh when uneducated non-sport, non-MMA fans dis the WWF... Ken Shamrock has beat every major martial artist there is to beat, yet in the WWF he's only about #5. Kurt Angle being probably the baddest legit fighter in the WWF, then HHH, Al Snow, Rob Van Dam, then Ken Shamrock.

The aquired highley developed skills of Shamrock and HHH are so much more impresssive than the smelling ability and armlessness of the overgrown buzzard T.Rex. I guess it's just sour grapes, huh.

I guess T.Rex fans will continue to make up lies to support their giant scavenger, while people actually looking for truth will seek it out. Not much changes.
from Lane, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 30, 2001


I'm no T-Rex honco, but I can tell you that HHH, and WWF in general, are stupid and lame. To all fanatical wrestling fans, get a life and go admire something that can really cause damage, like a bulldozer, not some guy good at acting along with his friends to do faked stunts to dazzle morons who watch and enourage them to try it FOR REAL on their own friends. At least T-Rex honcos like something that can actually cause some serious harm. HHH? It's not Hunter Hearst Helmsley, but rather Har Har Har, lameeeeeeee...

I really dislike the bugger, they put his lame-butt programmes on my homecoming flights. I hope someday he ends up like Owen Heart but dosen't die, instead staying alive but unable to hurt even a kid again to remind all his lame fans that wrestling is fake, getting hurt from a REAL fall is not.

Down with HHH, down with wrestling...
from Lucky, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 30, 2001


An Englander's point of view.

Ross, I'm not sure about you, but you are talking to an ASIAN bloke who lives in asia (about as asian as a bloke can get) about hand-to-hand combat, and the creators and masters of hand-to-hand combat are after all, still asians, we cauasians only adopted their style for entertainment after we saw Bruce Lee, who would have easily and truly kicked the arse of any World Wrestling Federation star for real anytime anywhere if he was still alive (including the three Hs). Grappeling seems to me a very primitive, and american way of attacking between poorly trained people, and it is certainly a poor method to employ against a fast-moving opponent going for your pressure points. I shamefully admit this as I used to be a bully in school two years ago who liked to "grapple" people until this lad a good one stone lighter and a full head shorter than me trounced me good and proper after I decided to lay on his friend. And that guy was asian. Right, this isn't exactly the material I would like to display here, but no matter, I shall make my stand clear "Don't pick on others weaker than you or you might get yer arse kicked." But I'm a changed person now. Have respect for asians when it comes to plummeling arse with bare hands.

Dear Ross, you seem to equate fighting prowess to the track record of the subject in professional wrestling. Which I say is a very poor way of judging indeed, as we all know wrestling is more rigged than a spanish galleon. All of the fights are prefixed and the losers and winners have been determined. Your Mr. HHH wins only because the writer's quill keeps him winning, not on any part of his actual ability. No wonder he got his arse plummled while drinking in a pub. Pub fights, unlike wrestling, are real. When it comes to some backalley, and its the bloke with the iron bar who wants your kidney out, all the bets are off and you won't survive simply by your wrestling moves (which are as fake as wooden pennies), but by showing that bloke you really trounce his butt by twisting his arm into painful positions and stuffing it up his...(deleted)

Before you start on your barrage of all-so-typical mindless american big bully insults, I'd like you to be aware of the fact that my special dinosaur is not Tyrannosaurus, but rather the english Iguanadon. I do not make my stand based on what lizard I like, but rather from the intellectual standpoint. Triple H would not prevail against Tyrannosaurus, rather, he would be horribly slain. And all the steriods he is abusing (I don't respect him for that part) would be of little help.

On that note, before more americans jump on Fransis (Honkie) based on Mr. Rosses' insults, I'd like to make it rather clear here that despite the fact I have no affilications with him or Tyrannosaurus whatsoever, Mr.Ross', Mr. Jason's, Mr. Joes and Mr. Sean's statements about Honkie and Trannosaurus admirers in general denouncing them as immature, ignorant laddies are simply not true. From the point of an outsider such as myself, I see no basis in these statements. What the Tyrannosaurus admirers, and Honkie in general, have done, are to defeat their opponent's arguments, points rather intelligently, which is not something I can say for Sean and company. If anything, these untrue statements only seem to stem from a great resentment against the fact that they have been intelligently and truly defeated, for everybody to see. And as of so, they are hurling untrue and false accusations against the Tyrannosaurus admirers. Now listen up, the laddies who are doing this. Simply because the Tyrannosaurus lads made you upset by defeating you fairly and squarely, being upset is no reason the react in your all so american way of hurling immature insults back. Be a mature gentleman, accept your defeat with dignity, and come up an argument only when you are sure it is good. Now, the Tyrannosaurus admirers are not all saints as we can see, but they are a tad' lot more mature and dignified than you, not to mention growing even more confident in their case as they watch you respond unintelligently and immaturely. Please learn to accept defeat with dignity and learn from it, instead of being consumed by it and creating a ludicrous situtation for us all by insisting on insulting and brawling your way out, in the vain hope you can somehow make your opponent's victory less by making things unpleasant for him. Please, do think of something more mature to do.

I really pity Paul Michael Levesque for having such immature and weak minded admirers. But birds of a feather flock together, I wonder what that means...

For Jason, I do agree that the Tyrannosaurus admirers insulted you. But I have to be honest with you. I have the distasteful task of informing you that you have missed out the obvious fact they not only managed to insult you, but also literally destroyed your arguments throughly. Yes, even an outsider like me can see that you have been defeated decisively.

Finally, before I get jumped on for supporting the much-maligned Tyrannosaurus people here, I'd like to say I have no links with them what so ever but am simply stating my point of view and my observations as an outside observer to this melee. I've looked through the eariler messages and have noted that there have been quite a number of outside observers who are agreeing with the Tyrannosaurus admirers. Apparently my point of view that the Tyrannosaurus lads are the superior debaters and the champions of this rather uncalled for argument is not shared by me alone. The only reason this argument seems to persists is due to the all too american habit of fearing to lose "face" if they admitted they were wrong. It's sad, no wonder americans are mostly so bull-headed and that attitude has gotten them kicked out of the UN Humans Rights Concil. I hope you yanks come to terms with the fact that you lost and make life a little more bearable for everybody. The Tyrannosaurus admirers are not going to stop, and should not, for they have argued their case well and throughly, convinced people not even involved. That's impressive if you aske me. And they shouldn't compromise the truth and facts simply because some person on a repeated-losing streak like Sean feels upset that they are winning. You are the winners lads, carry on with my fullest support. Cheeros. Now, I better take a bath, I do smell quite ripe.
from Peter S., age 15, London, -, England; August 30, 2001


Honkie Tong, you are the worst T.Rex homer here. All of you guys should start up your own "T.Rex Only" site. And what in the devil are you talking about? Oooooo.... that sounds sooooo bad. Ha Ha. Actually it was sorta funny. Like I said, go rent any mixed martial arts competition video or PPV and see how the wrestlers fare.... they DOMINATE. "Small and graceful", huh? Um, ok. That'll be useful when you're tapping out to a ankle-lock or a arm-bar. Size does matter dude, sorry. That's just life. Only good strikers (e.g. boxers) have done well against wrestlers... when getting a lucky shot in. But an experienced wrestler will take an opponet to the ground immeditly where it will be all over in a matter of seconds.

I suggest people stop talking about things they have no clue about. Want to see what happens when equally high skilled fighters of all disciplines get it on? Rent any UFC or other mixed competition. It's not that hard. Seeing for yourselves should hopefully mean alot more than listening to some people babble on a message board.

Honkie, I enjoyed the "small and graceful" thing... very amusing. It made me think of Royce Gracie... the world-reknown jiu-jitsu master and king of the "small and graceful" camp. He was UFC champ for a while, until he met his first real grappler by the name of Ken Shamrock (now in the WWF and still a MMA competitor) who wiped the floor with him. Gracie has since lost to several other grapplers he's faced. The UFC soon became domianted by grapplers. Ken Shamrock, by the way, has been beat several times by HHH in MMA compitetions.

And I laugh when uneducated non-sport, non-MMA fans dis the WWF... Ken Shamrock has beat every major martial artist there is to beat, yet in the WWF he's only about #5. Kurt Angle being probably the baddest legit fighter in the WWF, then HHH, Al Snow, Rob Van Dam, then Ken Shamrock.

The aquired highley developed skills of Shamrock and HHH are so much more impresssive than the smelling ability and armlessness of the overgrown buzzard T.Rex. I guess it's just sour grapes, huh.

I guess T.Rex fans will continue to make up lies to support their giant scavenger, while people actually looking for truth will seek it out. Not much changes.
from Ross, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 30, 2001


JC,What Is Your Favorate Dinosaur?
from euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; August 29, 2001
Stegosaurus. JC


J.C.,did you see that cruel picture,Honkie Tong drew? Get him off the fanpic page! (Rude pictures,should be considered taboo subjects.)
from Sean S., age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A.; August 29, 2001
The Allosaurus? I liked it (the overbite/receding chin notwithstanding). JC


Its true t.rex could beat giganotosaurus. (But I wouldn't go as far,as you!) Even if t.rex could beat giganotosaurus,giganotosaurus could also beat t.rex! Leonard,all this stuff you say,that you call "fact",is obviously a desperate attempt to put you'r beloved king,back on the throne.(How many times,do I have to tell you,"Bill Clinton doesn't work,in the White House,anymore"!) You're not debunking anyone,you're just defending you'r "favorite dinosaur".(That is all.)(I can feel the sweat,coming off you'r hands,right now!) Maybe Brad and Jason,have more interesting things to discuss,than "giganotosaurus vs. t.rex".
from voltronic(Guess who's back!), age 13, GOTCHA!!!!, ?, U.S.A.; August 29, 2001


"Anyone with ANY knowledge of the sport of wrestling, or sport in general, knows that a legit wrestler like HHH (national amatuer champ) or Kurt Angle (national amatuer and Olympic heavyweight champ) would destroy any fighter profecient in martial arts or boxing etc., much less some ordinary joe in a bar. This is laughable. Rent a UFC mixed martial arts competion tape to see what I mean. Wrestlers are the ultimate street fighters. Even other WWF wrestlers like Al Snow, Rob Van Dam etc. could wipe the floor with martial arts or boxing competitors. Grappling skills rule. Period."

I choose to disagree. Grappling skills work on an untrained opponent. But I could easily find a way to actually hurt HHH bad if he tries to grapple me, mainly with Djurus number twelve. Sorry, we asians, being smaller and more gracile, fight smart, not hard. Why pound your opponent to a pulp when you can block the flow of blood, mess with his pressure points, disable vital organs and disrupt his bioelectric chemistry with a few light touches? It's easier and less messy. Though if you gave me a pair of keranmits or lawi dalam, things would get really messy, all the major arteries are fairly close to the skin's surface. Carotids,antecubitals, femorals, popliteals. These will reach all of those. Cut out a big artery and you bleed out pretty quick if you don't do something...Kill you quicker than not breathing air, and blood is a lot harder to replace than air.

But why do that when you can make him cry simply by using the djurus?
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"I don't see the advantage with arms that are too small to be useful."

You know Jason, I like your style. You're posting too many idiotic statements to make the anti-TREX peeps here look bad.

LOL!
from Guile, age 19, QC, Manila, Philippines; August 29, 2001


"I don't see the advantage with arms that are too small to be useful."

Sure, that are a LOT of advantages. It could free up weight and space for mounting a heavier and more powerful jaw or head expecially if you are a low-slung bipedial. It could free up body mass for investing in other areas, like the limbs, or the neck, to make you a more effective predator. It reduces one more area in which you can sustain a bad injury in a fight and so on...

As you can see, there are many reasons why MOST animals for that matter don't need arms, and the ones who do have arms don't seem to be doing any better or worse than them. It's like having head hair. There is no precieved disadvantage or advantage in having or not haiving head hair in humans, it really depends on how the person compensates for it. Unless there was some selective pressure or advantage to have arms, most animals do pretty find without them. And it certainly dosen't seem to provide them with a great advantage in hunting. Granted, some predators who don't use arms may be even higher up on the food chain.

In Tyrannosaurus' case, there WAS evolutionary selective pressure to have his arms discarded. In other case, there actually was an clear advantage in haivng smaller arms so much so that Tyrannosaurids who had smaller arms actually had an advantage to survival compaired to the longer-armed dinosaurs. So I could say fairly, in other words, that there is an advantage in Tyrannosaurus' case, not to have arms. And its apparent Tyrannosaurus did better than longer-armed predators like the Allosaurids and even the raptors and replaced them. So much for all the fuss over the arms. If anything, the lack of arms seemed to make Tyrannosaurus an even more effective predator than having long and strong arms would. One can hardly argue that our lack of natural weapons is actually a handicap for us humans when it comes to killing other animals.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


Egar, you can stop using different nicks, we all know, thanks.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"Then we'll see who's wetting themselves. Of course, I'm sure you could beat it one on one, killing it simply by "using your mind"."

I think what John was refering to was that Human beings kill by using our minds to outsmart and kill prey many times our size. While other animals rely on brute force and their natural weapons, we humans have very little of such (though admittedly we are quite robust and agile for a typical 70-kilo animal), but we have learnt to overcome this by more than enough by using our powerful brains. Either by setting traps, inventing weapons or cooperating to kill. In either case, you'll notice that its all pretty much from the mind. We invent, trick and outsmart our prey, we do not tear them apart with our arms or 16-inch nails. No, all our derived methods of killing (save for matrial arts) are based on our exceptional inventions and innovation, something that is not found in other species. We kill with our minds.

So it is possible to defeat Spinosaurus one-on-one using my mind. Using my mind I would dig a pitfall trap, put some bait on it and wait with a healthy supply of LAW-72s (which happens to be a end-product of our mind's creative thinking) just in case. Either case, the Spinosaurus would be at a severe disadvantage. Oh, I could meet him with that Abrams tank too.

"John, I'd like to see how you'd like it if a Spinosaur ripped of your face. "

I don't think any animal would like it. But then again, I think John was poking fun at the way you made Spinosaurus "rip" of the face which was incredibly unlikely, involved a blatant disrespect for the facts we know about the two dinosaurs' morphlogy and a great deal of "Tyco" shots in Spinosaurus case. In other words, your story sound pretty much like a JP3 rigged fight, except it drones and rambles more and is boring.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"Everyones been saying that Coelophysis ate its young for survival but why because it could easily eat dino eggs cause they full of goodness and they dont run away or fight back, the only disadvantage is the over- protective mother but she can't of guarded her nest all the time as she would have to eat and drink sometime."

Well, the young ones would more of a food item to adults than things to be cared for, especially in times of famine when it wouldn't be worth it to try to keep youngsters alive. If they tried to take care of youngsters in times of famine, drought or other bad conditions, their whole species would die out rather quickly.

"Also, they are an advantage"

I don't see the advantage in arms too short to be useful.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; August 29, 2001


............................................................
"HHH is laughable, I stop being his fan after I read the news about him getting beaten up in a bar by a guy smaller than him. Apparently that little guy knew how to kick (*& for REAL, and made the entertainer HHH look lame. HHH is, after all, just an entertainer, doing tricks and stunts to ohh and ahh us. T.rex is a predator.
from Ex-HHH fan, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001"
.............................................................

This quote shows the mentality of the typical T-Rex fan. Whenever they are wrong, they start creating facts. HHH has NEVER gotten into a public bar fight. Someone please post ONE LEGITIMATE link to this so-called "news story". But no one will, because it's a straight-up LIE. T.Rex fans are a joke. There was a wrestler, HBK Shawn Michaels (a lightweight), who got beat down by about a dozen marines a few years back in a bar, but I doubt if this is simply confusion. Like always, T.Rex fans just simply start to make up stuff to fit their world when they are faced with facts. From Spino, to Giggy, to even HHH, to whatever, lies, lies, lies. All because they know T.Rex was nothing but a lowly scavenger, walking around sniffing out DEAD dinos like a 7 ton wuss. And it bothers them. Bad. All of these sad lies and arguments just make T.Rex look even more pathetic than that 7 ton armless buzzard already does.

Anyone with ANY knowledge of the sport of wrestling, or sport in general, knows that a legit wrestler like HHH (national amatuer champ) or Kurt Angle (national amatuer and Olympic heavyweight champ) would destroy any fighter profecient in martial arts or boxing etc., much less some ordinary joe in a bar. This is laughable. Rent a UFC mixed martial arts competion tape to see what I mean. Wrestlers are the ultimate street fighters. Even other WWF wrestlers like Al Snow, Rob Van Dam etc. could wipe the floor with martial arts or boxing competitors. Grappling skills rule. Period.

And yes, HHH would defeat T.Rex without a doubt. To say HHH could be beat by a half-blind, slow, armless, dimwitted SCAVENGER is just ridiculous. HHH would pedigree or high-knee his scavenger butt and that would be that. End of story.
from Egar, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"Also, they are an advantage,"

I don't see the advantage with arms that are too small to be useful.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; August 29, 2001


an origanal and alternate ending of Spinosaurus vs Gigantosaurus has been added to my site you may go ahead an look at it.
www.dinofights.cjb.net

from Dinofight, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


John, I'd like to see how you'd like it if a Spinosaur ripped of your face. Then we'll see who's wetting themselves. Of course, I'm sure you could beat it one on one, killing it simply by "using your mind".
from Bob, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


Why are we talking about wrestlers? This is a dinosaur website! Jeez. Does anyone agree with me?

I remember when we could all state our own opinions w/out getting critized, what happened?
from Katie V., age 14, Tabernacle, NJ, U.S.A.; August 29, 2001


Why are we comparing Spinosaurus to T-Rex? Spinosaurus ate fish and Rex ate other dinos. (I'm not on either side of this debate so don't think I'm busting anyone.) Do you think they would get into a fight in the first place?

Why doesn't anyone talk about herbovurs. They were dinos too!
from Katie V., age 14, Tabernacle, NJ, U.S.A.; August 29, 2001


Uh huh. John, technically, humans don't kill with their mind. Infact, humans use their superior minds to their advantage, by using it to help them create weapons and other devices. In essence, your statement humans "kill with their mind" means that a human could imagine someone dead and they'd die.

In the persons message which you critisized, they also state that the small arms don't hinder the animal that posesses them, in other words, he's saying that they aren't a disadvantage, which was the whole basis of your argument. Also, they are an advantage, just not an advantage for the animals that you mentioned. Arms were, infact, an evolutionary development which helped some creatures better adapt to their own enviornments. Some animals, the shark, for example, which you mentioned in your list, did not require that advancement to cope in it's own enviornment, and so the shark never grew to develope arms, as they would only prove to be a disadvantage to it.

This statement ilustrates the fact that all these animals would have only been at a disadvantage with arms and are better off without them. Personally, I think you should think out your messages before you go out malisiously arguing with others, and if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. If you choose to ignore my advice, then go on ahead, but next time you're going to attack anyone else's point of view, then please try and do it without wasting other peoples precious time by fitting it all into one message.

What ever happenned to having one's own point of view? It seems like on this board if you try to have one, you're only going to be having peeople like John pointing out inconsistencies. Oh well, perhaps there's hope for us all afterwards.....
from Thunderbird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


OK ITS OFFICAL JOHN, YOU JUST DESTROYED BOB'S STORY N MADE HIM LOOK STUPID.
from Jane, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


OK ITS OFFICAL JOHN, YOU JUST DESTROYED BOB'S STORY.
from Jane, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"Uh huh.... Sure they don't limit and hinder, but there are no advantages to having short arms! There are sveral predators with long arms that do just fine. Praying mantises, baboons, and even humans."

Uh huh, sure they don't limit and hinder, but there are no DISADVANTAGES to having short arms! In fact, I doubt not having the advantage of long arms contributes a large amount to your status as a dangerous animal. There is a vast majority of predators who kill without arms and do just very fine. Snakes, Eagles, Falcons, Hawks, Crocs, Alligators, Caimans, Gekos, Komodo Dragons, Bearded Dragons, Monitior Lizards, Secetary Birds, Dogs, Mongooses, Wolves, Heynas, Predatory Eels, Hornets, Crows, Frogs, Chameleons, Kites, Jackals, Basalisks, Coyotes, Bats, Heroin, Chickens, Badgers, Foxes, Tasmanian Devils, Giant Predatory Groupa, Seagulls, Gavial, Black-Collared Lizards, Ants, Kingfishers, Predatory Beatles, Gilla monsters, Ospreys, Pelicans, Killer Whales, Owls, Sea Lions, Dolphins, Condors, Seals, Sharks and so on and so forth. As you can see, in some of the cases, having no arms or not using any arms in the kill can actually be an ADVANTAGE. Tyrannosaurus simply discarded their! arms because it gave them no selective advantage, they made up more than enough with their bite.

Erm, Humans don't kill with our arms fool, we kill with our MINDS. Before you launch into some abstract argument about how the arm propels the spear or pull the trigger, notice you are making another one of your lame connections again. We're talking natural abilities here boyo. I'll set you up against Pantera Leo with nothing but your arms and see how you wet your pants. Kill with our arms? Honkie and his Silat munbo jumbo maybe, but it's not the norm!
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


Obviously, Bob, your story took an amazing amount of liberties with scientific fact, logic, and knowledge on dinosaurs. You also seemed to have injected a wilful ignorance of blatant facts, downplayed certain areas not to your advantage, and overplayed your hand where you had one. Here's how it would turn out, based on what we know about the two animals, and speaking fairly in other words:

Tyrannosaurus runs up to Spinosaurus, bites the tight, and retreats rapidly to a safe distance. Spinosaurus is unable to keep up. Tyrannosaurus repeats the move when he deems its safe to do so. Spinosaurus is unable to disengage. He bleeds out and dies.

Simple, logical and sweet. Better than a 500 word story that makes absolutely no sense. Here's another way it could turn out:

Tyrannosaurus runs up to Spinosaurus and bites the neck. Neck is broken immediately, game over. Tyrannosaurus recieves outpatient treatment for a few lacerations.

How about a version that caters better to Spino:

Tyrannosaurus slugs it out with Spinosaurus. Spinosaurus bites Tyrannosaurus on the head. Ouch! That's a really bad thing. Tyrannosaurus is missing some skin and he's bleeding like those guys you see on TV who hurt their head. Tyrannosaurus bites Spinosaurus' head. Ouch! That's a really bad thing. Spinosaurus is missing a large chunk out of his head, just like those guys who got sniped by the SWAT snipers in some situtation and the pictures were so grusome that they never made it to the news. Spinosaurus dies.

*Shrugs. Even without going through extensive storylines, plot devices and blatant ignorance of the facts, I can easily make T.Rex win. You can't.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"but once he releases his grip, the Spinosaur's other forelimb swings around, going deep into the Tyrannosaurs head."

This is impossible as Spinosaurus forelimbs lacked sufficent articulation to swipe at a Tyrannosaur head in the way you described. And even so, the damage would have been minimal from the claw as it was not designed to stab but rather to slash. It would not have gone deep into the Tyrannosaurus head but instead let him off with a laceration.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"The tyrannosaur is hungry, and therefore relentless, only biting harder. "

Oddly in your story, this dosen't seem to be a bad thing, which it would have been in real life. Imagine fratured bones, torn muscle, rended flesh and bleeding by the gallon.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"The tyrannosaur decides to use the same strategy it would use on an anklyosaur: flip the prey over revealing the unprotected belly. "

I doubt Tyrannosaurus would have elected for such a method. After all, Spinosaurus would better fit the profile of a hardosaur to a Tyrannosaurus. So he would employ hit and run methods or go hamstring your opponent and run away method. You are obviously choosing this method as it allows Spinosaurus to have a chance to hit at Tyrannosaurus without him running away, while compromising the logicality of your story. Besides, why the heck would Tyrannosaurus try to flip Spinosaurus over instead of simply employing the safest hi and run methods. Spinosaurus wasn't armoured and Tyrannosaurus was smart enough to know that.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"The Spinosaur then opens his mouth and bites the eye. Though the upper jaw doesn't penetrate the tyrannosaurs bony frill, the lower jaw goes right into the retina. The spinosaurus then pulls his snout back, ripping the eye and leaving painful reminders of the attack: teeth. "

Once again this is impossible as T.Rex had recessed and protected eyes. And I notice your story put in an awful lot of "lucky breaks" for Spinosaurus, coming up with incredible, hard-to-happen ways of getting away. For T.Rex, it was simple, he could kill Spinosaurus by biting anywhere.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"T. Rex is smart and bites into the Spinosaurs leg joint, where the leg connects to the torso. "

If that happened, T.Rex didn't even have to drag his prey down. The explosive power of 13,000 newtons of force will denude the area of all muscle and flesh, prehaps even fracturing the bone. T.Rex didn't have to hold on, he simply bit, let go, and let the damage do the rest. Spinosaurus won't even be able to walk after taking such damage.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"It has been proven that Sue, the most famous Tyrannosaur skeleton, had died from her face being ripped off by another Tyrannosaur. So ha!!!"

Not really, that's old and wrong info. Closer examination of Sue's skull revealed the damage wasn't inflicted by a T-Rex at all, but rather by a disease. Also, your point is rather irrevalant as only a Tyrannosaurus could do that much damage. Spinosaurus didn't have a wisper of a hope to doing anything like that. Sorry, you're wrong.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


"It's funny how some of you don't realize this. "

No we ALL don't. What we do realize is that your favourite fighter got trounced by a smaller guy who wasn't even a fighter! HAHAHA! His pedrigree just got trottled.

Wrestling fans = pathetic
from DDD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


Everyones been saying that Coelophysis ate its young for survival but why because it could easily eat dino eggs cause they full of goodness and they dont run away or fight back, the only disadvantage is the over- protective mother but she can't of guarded her nest all the time as she would have to eat and drink sometime.
from Sarah, age 13, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


Relax guys, we all know HHH can not beat T.Rex hand-to-claw. In fact, HHH couldn't even beat that shrimp in the bar. Let that HHH fan say whatever he likes about HHH, HHH will still be a whimp, no matter what he says.
from Jane, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


HHH is laughable, I stop being his fan after I read the news about him getting beaten up in a bar by a guy smaller than him. Apparently that little guy knew how to kick (*& for REAL, and made the entertainer HHH look lame. HHH is, after all, just an entertainer, doing tricks and stunts to ohh and ahh us. T.rex is a predator.
from Ex-HHH fan, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 29, 2001


I finished Dinosaur Fights its done now go check it out I will add alot more stories by the end of the week but I think i may only add 1 if i do so dont be mad if i dont.
www.dinofights.com

from Dinofight, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 28, 2001


Just a quick question: What's the difference between noasaurids Noasaurus and Masiakasaurus? Has there been a good comparison of the bones that are known in both taxa?

And check this out:

http://www.cmnh.org/fun/dinosaur-archive/2001Aug/msg00667.html

Now if that link isn't as interesting as T. rex, I don't know what would be! Think it's real?
from Brad, age 14, Lindsay, ON, Canada; August 28, 2001


I haven't been able to get on the internet for a few days, but now I'm using a computer at the school where my mom works. Wow, I missed a lot! A few comments:

"speakin of dat does anyone know WHY Coleophysis ate their own young cause that's just plain freaky. O_o"

I doubut that they actually ate their _own_ young. Couldn't it just have been an unrelated young Coelophysis that was eaten by the adult? I think that's more likely, as it may have helped the survival of the cannibal's own genes by getting rid of competition.

"I know that some dinosaurs used their neck to eat tree tops like giraffes but I read that some couldnt make their neck go very high, just sideways, so what were they used for?"

Even if the movement was limited to 'sideways' movement, it still would have greatly expanded the amount of vegetation that the sauropod could reach without moving its body.

"I think the genus Apatosaurus is adequate, although personally I prefer Brontosaurus (its a much more impressive name). Apatosaurus means "fraud lizard," for the reason you have already stated."

More precisely it means "deceptive lizard". This is not a reference to the incorrect skull in old skeletal mounts, but rather to the vertebrae, which Marsh thought were like those of mosasaurs (IIRC).

"On the original apatosaur mount, they had outfitted the skeleton with the wrong head (a camarosaur), as the apatosaur's skull was not known at that time. It is not clear to me however why the genus needed to be changed...any thoughts? I suppose it was because the public had associated Brontosaurus with the camarsaur type head, so they changed its title to Apatosaurus so people would have a fresh view on the animal."

The name Apatosaurus predates the name Brontosaurus. It's valid because it's the proper senior synonym, not because scientists wanted to give it a new image.

"What is everyone's opinion on the Apatosaurus? Should the name stay that, or shouold it go back to Brontosaurus?"

The name Apatosaurus is _older_ than the name Brontosaurus, and must be the valid name for at least one species, Apatosaurus ajax. Apatosaurus excelsus was originally described as Brontosaurus, and if it is generically distinct the name Brontosaurus can be used. There's a dinosaur fan on Dan's JP3 Page using the nickname "Lagosuchus" who believes we can easily separate Brontosaurus excelsus from Apatosaurus ajax and A. louisae based on the cervical vertebrae, but most people still put all three species in Apatosaurus. It's not a question of Apatosaurus or Brontosaurus, but rather a question of both being species of Apatosaurus or two different genera.

Genera are tricky to separate anyway, even in some living animals like Felis concolor. (Puma concolor?)

"I wonder why they would change the name in the first place, seeing as all that was wrong was the head, which was from another dinosaur. Camarasaur, I believe."

Because it has nothing to do with the skull in the mounted skeletons. Should the name of Mamenchisaurus change because it was originally mounted with a Diplodocus skull?

"and i heard some noise about megaraptor a while back but i'm not quite sure still how big it was and i even read an article saying it was not a dromaeosaur but was more closely related to a troodon because of it's metatarsel. can anybody clear me up about those topics please?"

Nobody is sure how big Megaraptor was, because so little of it is known. I haven't seen a picture of the Megaraptor metatarsal, so I can't say how Troodon-like it is.
from Brad, age 14, Lindsay, ON, Canada; August 28, 2001


HHH would handily beat T.Rex. Spino would be tougher, but he'd probably beat him too. HHH is THE GAME. It's funny how some of you don't realize this. HHH is the world fighting champion, man or beast.

Time to play the game.
from HHH is the real king, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 28, 2001


T-Rex is my favorite dinosaur, and I think it was stronger and smarter than all other Carnosaurs, because that's what peleontologists say. It's that simple. After reading a lot of the books and websites made by paleontologists, I realized that most of them think T-Rex wold have beaten most other if not all other carnosaurs in a fight, MOST of the time. T-Rex had an extremely stocky body, which was more muscular than any othe carnosaur. It was stronger than dinosaurs such as Giganotosaurus and Spinosaurus. A lot of people think T-Rex was stupid, which is completely false. New studies suggest that not only did T-Rex have incredible senses of smell, sight and hearing, but its intelligence ranked very high among the dinosaurs. It was probably quik and agile for its size, because it was so birdlike and it could take 14 to 18 feet per stride. It had the largest teeth of any dinosaur, not Giganotosaurus.T-Rex' teeth grew to 13 inches long. It had massively powerful jaws perhaps stronger than any other dinosaur. With those hunting skills, it was an able unter, but it it WRONG to say that it would never scavenge. I'm not saying it was unbeatable, and other Carnivores had advantages of their own, but I am saying that it was probably the most powerful hunter that ever lived
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 28, 2001


Here's one thing about dinos: Dinosaurs were abosoulutely SCARY!!!
from S.P, age ?, ?, ?, South Africa; August 28, 2001


t- imperator was real i did some research t- imperator was one of the healthyest dinoes that ever walked this earth t -imperator only became that he had very very healthy tissue in his body and that is wut caused them to be so big and all there skills have thurougly advanced makeing their bones grow at a more rapid rate causeing him to grow all around
from t-rex, age 2222222229, usa, usa, usa; August 28, 2001


T-Rex versus Spinosaurus? What about Sledgehammer versus Eggshell? T-Rex will have no trouble woomping Spinosaurus' soft, lard-covered, scaley, spiny butt.
from Rezkat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 28, 2001


I've noticed a great difference in the quality of the debaters of both sides in any debate involving T.Rex. It is blatantly obvious that the T.Rex fans are well-versed, knowledgable and put out intelligent arguments while the opposition crawls along with arguments having the intelligence of your average gardern slug. While the T.Rex fans limit their insults, witty quips and wise cracks to making fun of the flaws in their opponents in very funny and true ways, the insults of their opponents are almost always mindless and baseless accusations that make no sense and that any onlooker can tell is obviously fake. For example, the T.Rex fans make fun of Jason's weak arguments by comparing carnivores with herbivores and calming that as how the carnviores worked. The T.Rex fans come up with very funny and true examples not only to destroy the point that Jason made, but also to make him look dumb at the same time, is that cool or what?

Meanwhile, all we get from the anti-rexers are pretty lame insults that are based on nothing. They don't disprove any of the points that the T.Rex fans make, are pretty simple (eg. You're wrong). They are not only not insulting the T.Rex fans effectively (effective insults are based on the truth, random insults don't hurt anybody), but only make themselves look dumber on the other hand. For example, Sean S. calls Honkie "Often Wrong" but he is simply doing that for the heck of it, he didn't disprove any of Honkie's points, and he seems to be saying that simply because he's angry at his sound trashing under Honkie's very good arguments. There's a great difference between intelligent insults and lame insults.

The points are also another area. T.Rex fans come up with very good points that are detailed and logically-sound. They go deep into science and figuring out all the factors and showing it to everybody so as to prove themselves extensively in detail, as if saying "Just look at the facts and see why we're right". They have extremely good arguments that even I envy.

On the other hand, anti-rexers keep using the same party line over and over again like "Giganotosaurus was bigger", "You are not a paleontologist", "Spinosaurus was faster" or "T.Rex was a scavenger" even after the T.Rex fans have convincingly disproved and discredited these points! And the "You are not a paleontologist" line is too painfully obvious a line said by a loser who knows he has already lost and has no other option buit top resort to this. Why else use this line unless you have been outargued and have no way to respond to your opponent but to put this rather lame one that is totally irrevalant to the point anyway? It's like the T.Rex fans proving Brachiosaurus could not fly in great detail to a bunch of Bracy fans and throughly and convincingly making their case and then the Bracy fans say "You are not a paleontologist" as their response. Frankly a person's status is irrevalant as long as he comes up with good and logical points. In fact, some of the T.Rex fans over here even come up with observations that would put some experts to shame! I'm sorry, but simly saying "You are not a paleontologist" is a poor response, and it just shows how pitiful and stupid you are.

I think I know why there is such a great difference in the quality of debaters. On the T.Rex side, we have T.Rex fans, and T.Rex has a large number of detractors just wanting to knock him off. To be a T.Rex fan, you will be under constant insulting, pressure and ridicule, most people won't like T.Rex unless they have a good and logical reason to know why they like T.Rex (ask any Spino fan why they like Spino and they'll say JP3), so that they can face up to all the detractors and disprove them. As of such, we see that the people who have the guts to be T.Rex fans are well equipped, have a good and logical reason based on science, and are intelligent. Your average dinofan will not jump to liking, much less defending T.Rex at all due to the odds (virtually every dinofan has a grudge against T.Rex), so the only people doing this are extremely good. The elimination requirements for being a Rex defender are very strict and only the best get throught.

On the side of the opponents however, like in Giganotosaurus or Spinosaurus, they have no such pressure. You will not come under heavy attack from the other fans of all other dinos if you are a fan of Giganotosaurus or Spinosaurus. There is no discouraging factor, unlike liking T.Rex, to be a fan of Spinosaurus or Giganotosaurus, thus you get all kinds of people coming onto the Spinosaurus/Giganotosaurus bandwagon, most of them know very little about dinosaurs, are immature, relatively dumb and like this dino for what they saw in the movies or simply because its "hot" in the news as the latest "T.Rex beater" (notice T.Rex has prevailed over all the other supposed "T.Rex beaters" so far). They have poor reason to like their dino and even poorer arguments. In a Giganotosaurus fan force of about 600, you get about 2 or 3 of them who are mature or gifted on the T.Rex fan level and then you have about 597 hamburgers. As we can see, we have a lot of hamburgers like HHH, Sean, Joe, Jason and many others going around here, it's no contest, the T.Rex fans simply crushed them flat.

And having being crushed flat, these hamburgers resort to personal insults, nonsensical posts (HHH can take on T.Rex, yeah right) and baseless accusations to get back. But I advice that they stop it. We have a term we call these Giganotosaurus/Spinosaurus hambeurgers in where I live, and that's "Sore Loser". Is best that they such up, as by insulting T.Rex fans they only make the fact that they've lost even greater and make themselves look stupid at the same time.
from Peter T., age 15, LA, CA, USA; August 28, 2001


What does everyone think about the idea that dinosaurs were warm- blooded?
from Sarah, age 13, Oxfordshire, ?, England; August 28, 2001


Accept The Fact.Triceratops Could Run At 25 MPH.T.Rexes Could Run At 20 MPH.T.Rex Was Slower Than Triceratops.Both Could Run Faster Then Humans.

How Fast Was Spinosaurus(In MPH)?

How Fast Could Veloceraptor Run(In MPH)?
from euoplacephulus, age 65,000,000, Alta, CA, USA; August 27, 2001


Okay, I stand by the fact that a Spinosaur could beat a Tyrannosaur in a fight. In order to determine who would win, lets look at some of the factors which would affect the battle.
first of all, it is more likely that a Tyrannosaur would attak first. This is because tyrannosaurs tend to be agressive towards other large predators, including other tyrannosaurs. This is proven in tyrannosaur bones which have been discovered, which reveal signs of conflict among different tyrannosaurs.
> as leonard stated, the Tyrannosaur's jaws were more powerfully built than Spinosaurus'. This is true only because the Spinosaur didn't rely on crushing power like the Tyrannosaur, but needed a long snout (like a crocodiles) to grab fish from the water. The tyrannosaurs jaws, however, were meant to pierce the prey's flesh and break bones by exerting a great crushing force. On the T. Rex's common prey, a hadrosaur, one bite would have been fatal.
>one important factor in this "clash of titans" would have been the forelimbs. The Spinosaurs forelimbs were long and powerful enough to allow the creature to walk on all fours at times, and were especially adept for catching fish. Spinosaur's arms also sported it's greatest weapon, a claw, which could have been for defense, to cut and slash whatever came close enough. For all we know, the Spinosaur was like a bear, swiping fish out of the fish in a river when it saw one. The Tyrannosaurs arms, on the other hand, are unusualy small, and virtually useless in battle. The reason for them being so small was to allow the head to grow larger during evoulution without having to lengthen the tail.
>one more factor in the fight which I would like to discuss is the legs of each predator. The Tyrannosaur has muscular legs which allow for speed in catching prey, though that wouldn't matter in a head on head collision. They may have been used for kicking, though with dull feet claws like a tyrannosaur, the repocussions would be few. Spinosaurs legs, however, aren't anything special special, and would have only helped Spino run and swim.

Now that we've examined the factors, lets take a look at a probable battle. The Setting, a clearing in the forest, near an intermittent river in the dry season on Ilsa Soma. Hadrosaurs had long deserted the river, heading for the coast, but the Spinosaurus stayed. The Tyrannosaur, wandering through the forest, starving, comes to the clearing, and sees Spinosaurus as potential prey, but also a potential enemy. The tyrannosaur decides to use the same strategy it would use on an anklyosaur: flip the prey over revealing the unprotected belly. The Tyrannosaur then lets out a roar, and breaks into a run towards the Spinosaur. The Spinosaur quickly moves aside, but the T. Rex is smart and bites into the Spinosaurs leg joint, where the leg connects to the torso. The Tyrannosaur then attempts to drag it's prey to the ground, but the Spinosaur shows the Tyrannosaur it's claws, by slashing at the closest part of T. Rexes face repeatedly. The tyrannosaur is hungry, and therefore relentless, only biting harder. The Spinosaur then opens his mouth and bites the eye. Though the upper jaw doesn't penetrate the tyrannosaurs bony frill, the lower jaw goes right into the retina. The spinosaurus then pulls his snout back, ripping the eye and leaving painful reminders of the attack: teeth. As the Spinosaur continues to slash at the T. Rexes face with the only arm that reaches back that far, the Spinosaur continues to peel skin of T. Rexes faace, until the tyrannosaur decides he isn't that hungry. He thinks it's easier to drop the prey and let it bleed to death, but once he releases his grip, the Spinosaur's other forelimb swings around, going deep into the Tyrannosaurs head. The Spinosaur then grabs the head as he falls t the ground and pulls T. Rexes head with him. The belly of the Spinosaur is now exposed, but as the T. Rex tries to maneveur his head towards it, he gets a kick in the face from the Spinosaurs remaining leg. After suffering more damage to the head, the T. Rex pulls free from the Spinosaur, but dies as his head falls to pieces. Do you think that missing half a face can't kill a Tyrannosaur? Well, you're wrong. It has been proven that Sue, the most famous Tyrannosaur skeleton, had died from her face being ripped off by another Tyrannosaur. So ha!!!

from Bob, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


"And his arms are another bad thing, they lacked the articulation to flap and pivot sufficently to be used as an effective weapon against other large dinosaurs! They would have been good against big fish though."

Hmmm, if they are effective against fish, which are fast and agile, then they would make an effective weapon. The speed of the arms could rip into skin.

"The reason Tyrannosaurus had such small arms after all, was not to limit and hinder himself, but rather to make him even more effective as a hunter."

Uh huh.... Sure they don't limit and hinder, but there are no advantages to having short arms! There are sveral predators with long arms that do just fine. Praying mantises, baboons, and even humans.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


"It's a good thing this dinodebate is over, the T.Rex fans were just too powerful to be beaten. Now we observe the opponents have either shied away or resorted to petty character assasination, a definatve symtom of failure."

Exscuse me? Did I hear that right? The reason I, or me and probably other debaters "shied away" was because I/we were getting bored with debating with such infantile fanatics! I never resorted to character assasination. Any statements against tyransaurus are met with a tiresome barrage of insults. It's gotten old.

"or prehaps adancing their own genes,"

I won't argue with this. I'm simply helping prove the point. Animals instinctively know they must breed and pass on their genes in order for their species to survive. Many species will most likely kill offspring of their own species to give their genes a better chance at domination.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; August 27, 2001


RE: euoplacephulas

If You Want A Website Full Of Dumbs,Brainless Fights,Go To www.tyrannosaurus.cjb.net

dont make fun of my old site just because your another dinosaur fan the only reason you said they were dumb was because your dinosaur's didnt always win let me guess your favorite dinosaur is spinosaurus? or gigantosaurus either way DONT INSULT MY OPIONIONS thats why i express my opinions on the internet which by the way i made a new site
www.dinofights.com and its not just dedicated to tyrannosaurus but also allosaurus,gigantosaurus,siesmosaurus,stegosaurus,spinosaurus,tyrannosaurus, and utah raptors but the site isnt done yet but feel free to check it out
www.dinofights.cjb.net

from Dinofight, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


I have updated the site and the siesmosaurus site is now up now i have to do it stegosaurus and utah raptors and the site will be done and then ill start to add more fights until then enjoy a small spinosaurus vs megaladon fight tthat is couresy of james but the story isnt finished until james contacts me but feel free to read it
www.dinofights.cjb.net

from Dinofight, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


nobody would like the spinosaurus if it was not for jp3
from greg, age 10, lawrenceville, Ga, USA; August 27, 2001


Ok, I just recently heard a theory from some other site.

Everyone compares intelligence of dinosaurs. They place them in juxtaposition, however, through brainsized versus body size. Yet, are we sure exactly how their brains worked. I mean, we're starting to understand our own. Just consider this, their brains may have been more efficient or may have worked in a different way than that of today.

Ok, that's it. It's short. They didn't provide any info. I summed it up into my own words, but I just wanted to know what this board thought about it. I guess it doesn't need any info. I take it as something to take into consideration, rather than an actual theory.
from BillG, age 14, ?, MO, USA; August 27, 2001


Reading the last few entries was overwhelming. I think we should stop arguing over which dinosaur is best. It's not going to change anything. These were living creatures not characters in a Saturday morning cartoon. None of them are invincible. I think they are all interesting and that is why I have been studying them for quite a while. I personally think that T-Rex is the strongest and smartest of the Carnosaurs. That is my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Just like everyone else is entiltled to theirs. For you people who keep arguing that one dinosaur is better than another, I have to ask, what do you help to accomplish?
from Tim, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


HHH is a bad dude. He was a national amatuer wrestling (ie "real" wrestling) champion and can bench over 600 pounds. Everyone should know wrestlers always beat boxers, martial artists etc.- just watch any UFC. T.Rex was a big, dumb, armless, overgrown buzzard who scavenged for food.

Winner: HHH
from Robbie, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


Is Bob stupid or is Leonard just smart?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


I think HHH is stupid, anybody who uses the same stupid pharases (The Rock being the exception) so many times must be pretty airy up there. And did you hear that whimp HHH hurt his own leg simply by jumping too hard? Steriod abuse I tell you. You're watching HHH, the stupidest, most unelectrifying, whimpiest man on all of showbiz.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


"speakin of dat does anyone know WHY Coleophysis ate their own young cause that's just plain freaky. O_o"

Canabilism is actually quite common in the animal world, even humans are not abject from such behaviour. It has been documented in over 200 species of mammals. In fact, in some species canabilism is comes so naturally that it has to be chemically supressed in order for them to breed. Reasons for Coleophysis eating their young could vary, it could be due to stress on the animals from the lack of alternative food sources, possibly due to a famine, causing the animals to resort to turning on their own in order to survive while they would not have done so under normal conditions (The German army fighting in The famous Battle of Stalingrad in WW2, aka, The War Of The Rats, got so starved that some of them even resorted to eating thier dead comrades at one point). It could be due to social reasons, where killing off young might prove to be socially advantageous in advancing their position in the social order or prehaps adancing their own genes, or it could be that such behaviour sim! ply comes naturally. Nobody knows, but I suspect Coleophysis wouldn't resort to canabilism unless it was under stress.

"anyone who thinks that HHH couldn't beat a T.Rex is crazy. HHH is the game. everyone should know that. no one beats HHH. no one."

Hmm, I can already think of ways to make him cry like a baby using nothing more than the eighteen Djurus in Penjak silat and a pair of kerambits. Nope, HHH is only human, and he only looks cool on camera (though his moves, and wrestling moves in general are laughable). Any Tom, Dick and Harry who knows a little bit about real-world-fighting would whipe his butt off the sidewalk. Dosen't even take a T.rex to do it. And I'm afraid everybody knows HHH can be easily beaten, mangled, mutiliated, spindled, folded, and otherwise killed, everybody.

You have the honor of the clinching the most pathetic case award of the year here, you are only making HHH look weak as your comments only help people to imagine HHH getting horribly killed, and the look or absolute horror on your face as your favourite star gets torn, limb from limb.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


"speakin of dat does anyone know WHY Coleophysis ate their own young cause that's just plain freaky. O_o"

It is quite freaky, but it's necessary for survival in a drought.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; August 27, 2001


Dear Evan,
I love the dinosaurs too,often the plant eaters (Brachiosaurus, Séismosaurus,Stégosaurus...)because they are impressive.
Have you seen Jurassic park 3?

from Greg.s, age 17, Nantes, ?, France; August 27, 2001


It's a good thing this dinodebate is over, the T.Rex fans were just too powerful to be beaten. Now we observe the opponents have either shied away or resorted to petty character assasination, a definatve symtom of failure.
from Jane, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


"The Tyrannosaur, though long speculated as the largest carnivore to walk the earth, still wasn't that intelligent and it's tiny arms would have been useless. All this thing could rely on was it's sheer crushing power, seeing as it could bite as hard as a shark, but how does that help if it can't even lock it's jaw on an equal sized theropod."

Uh uh, neurogical studies indicate Tyrannosaurus was one of the smartest dinosaurian predators around, much smarter than Spinosaurus or Giganotosaurus around, by a massive ratio of 1:2. Tyrannosaurus also had highly specialized speed and agility adaptations, and he could easily and accucrately hit anything with his powerful bite, given his steroscopic vision, and powerfully muscled neck to move the head precisely and fast. Tyrannosaurus morphlogy seems to indicate that he was well equipped to hit things accucrately and quickly with his head. The reason Tyrannosaurus had such small arms after all, was not to limit and hinder himself, but rather to make him even more effective as a hunter.

Spinosaurus, on the other hand, would have suffered a handicap in accuracy due to its lack of steroscopic vision, a delicate neck that made him slower in manuvering his head, and the lack of speed and agility adapations in his limbs. Morever, FEA analysis has also shown that he had a considerably weaker bite than most other dinosaurs, which limited the damage he could do and also prevented him from grabbing anything big and strong. It would be a good thing, for his teeth were rather shallowly rooted anyway, and attempting to do anything stressful with his jaws would have resulted in extensive damage to his teeth. And his arms are another bad thing, they lacked the articulation to flap and pivot sufficently to be used as an effective weapon against other large dinosaurs! They would have been good against big fish though. Tyrannosaurus was far more agile, numble and faster than Spinosaurus, not to mention it hit harder! Bad news!

Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus was specialized to kill while Spinosaurus was equipped bells and tinkles to handle a varitey of prey, from fish to dinosaurs, making him a jack of all trades but a master of none. Spinosaurus would lose to the two most of the time.
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; August 27, 2001


anyone who thinks that HHH couldn't beat a T.Rex is crazy. HHH is the game. everyone should know that. no one beats HHH. no one.
from Haku, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


There would be no way for Tyrannosaurus Rex and Spinosaurus to fight!......... they lived on different countrys!
WHO AM I???!!!???
I am 'Godzillsaurus.'

from Godzillasaur(Gojira), age 9, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


If You Want A Website Full Of Dumbs,Brainless Fights,Go To www.tyrannosaurus.cjb.net
from euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; August 26, 2001


I dont really insult unless you say tyrannosaurus is a scavenger which i totally believe is wrong i dont care what happens to tyrannosaurus on the movies it usually wouldnt happen but dont call all trex fans insulters cause i am one myself
from Dino Fighter, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


I will now be known as Dino Fighter after this last message I have decided since I worked so hard on the site to still try to make the deadline that it is open to you people it only has two stories done and I Have just decieded to add allosaurus to Tyrannosaurus and giagantosaurus and spinosaurus no fights are for allo yet though only tyrannosaurus vs gigantosaurus and tyrannosaurus vs spinosaurus so you can go check them out at the all new being constructed still
www.dinofights.cjb.net
I hope you guys enjoy the site I will keep working with it

from Tyrannosaurus, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


know what stinks that the t-rex is smaller then the spinosaurus
from Evan S., age ???, ???, ????, USA; August 26, 2001


Whoever thinks a human could beat a dinosaur like T. Rex in hand to hand combat is a foll. A human's only adaptation for survival is our powerful brain which has allowed us to manipulate the planet, it's resources and the creatures which live on the planet.
Back to dinosaurs. This petty little arguement over who would win in a fight between a Tyrannosaur, a Spinosaur and a Gigantosaur is also absurd.
If you're looking for my vote, though, I'd go with the spinosaur. The Tyrannosaur, though long speculated as the largest carnivore to walk the earth, still wasn't that intelligent and it's tiny arms would have been useless. All this thing could rely on was it's sheer crushing power, seeing as it could bite as hard as a shark, but how does that help if it can't even lock it's jaw on an equal sized theropod.
Gigantosaurus may have also operated in a similar fashion to the T.Rex, but even it would have been no match for the spinosaur. Unlike the other large theropods, the Spinosaur's fore arms were powerful enough to help stabilize itself when walking on all fours. Its longer snout would have also given it a longer range, allowing it to grab whatever came close enough.
Anyway, the dinosaurs which I recognize as the most fascinating were Troodon, Velociraptor and Utahraptor, seeing as they were as intelligent as dinosaurs come. But I'm not saying that these speedy little reptiles could overcome a Spinosaur, though.

from Bob, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


My website www.tyrannosaurus.cjb.net is going to be moving to dinofights(website im designing) and your votes for the other 4 dinosaaurs with the highest score will be in dino fights and they will be counted tomarrow this means today is your last chance to vote so please do it.
from Tyrannosaurus, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


i agree with ? T-rex rules! he ate his challenger Spino! speakin of dat does anyone know WHY Coleophysis ate their own young cause that's just plain freaky. O_o
from Hii-chan, age 8, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


T-REX VS SPINO! Lets start! Wait a minute...where's Spinosaurus? What is that spiny looking thing sticking out of that pile of T-Rex dung? T-Rex rules!!!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


ok Adrian i think i can answer yuor question. take Mamenchisaurus for instance. though it keeps its head sideways it has ome hollow neck vertebrae enabling it to reack at least 51 feet above the ground. and as for the other long necked herbivorous Dinosaurs who keep their necks sideways they'll be able to reach at least some height. it all depends on how long their necks are then here's how heavy their neck vertebrae are. that's how it all works nespa?
from Hii-chan, age 8, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


yeah Honkie Tong i guess you're right. Honkie, we're talking about sauropods that keep their necks sideways like Mamenchisaurus. get the point?
from Hii-chan, age 8, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


my favorite jp movie is jp2 right now. it was funny. i wish jeff goldbloom was in the the third one too.
from Evan S., age 9, ????????????, ????????????, USA; August 26, 2001


"So are you saying that T-rex was only a hunter, never taking the opportunity to eat from an already dead animal? Comparing the rex to modern animals, you can see just what it would do. I seriously doubt the rex would never scavenge. I'm not saying that it primarily scavenged, but it would when it had a chance. It wasn't solely a hunter, nor was it solely a scavenger. It would have been just like a lion. It's painfully obvious, really."

I would be very surprised if T.rex didn't scavenge, as virtually all land-based big-game predators do scavenge after all, with the possible exception of snakes. Dead meat is after all still meat you can eat. But what is bizzare here is when people insist that T.rex MUST have been an obligate scavenger, that meant, he could not hunt at all. I doubt the fact that T.rex would and could scavenge is lost on the people arguing that T.rex was a predator, but they are after all, trying to prove that T.rex COULD hunt, they didn't say it COULDN'T scavenge. On the other hand, what is extremely bizzare is the people who say it MUST have scavenged full time, which is certainly not true, as we can see from the fossil record.

Hmm, I wonder, if I didn't kill the Saint Bernard in the dog soup I am having now, but another member of my species did it, does that make homo sapiens a full-time scavenger or a full-time predator?
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; August 26, 2001


Still, I agree with Sean S. It is true that t-rex fans are not peaceful,they are just plain insulters. Why are you t-rex fans making so much fuss on one loss battle with spinosaurus?Frankly some of t-rex reports make no sense.Come on other dinosaur voters,you want to win,show some backbone.
from Donovan c., age 12, ?, singapore, ?; August 26, 2001


To Afton
If you want to have informations about Jurassik Park 3, you can see my site:dinomania.free.fr/.
Bye Bye!

from Greg s., age 17, Nantes, ?, France; August 26, 2001


Dinotalk Archives:
Current
2002
Dec.
Nov.
Oct.
Late Sept.
Early Sept.
Aug.
July,
June 16-30,
June 1-15,
May 21-30,
May 11-20,
May 1-10,
Apr. 21-30,
Apr. 13-20,
Apr. 6-12,
Apr. 1-5,
Mar. 21-31,
2002
Mar. 13-20,
Mar. 9-12,
Mar. 5-8,
Mar. 1-4,
Feb. 26-28,
Feb. 21-25,
Feb. 15-20,
Feb. 9-14,
Feb. 4-8,
Feb. 1-3,
Jan. 30-31,
Jan. 25-29,
Jan. 20-24,
Jan. 15-19,
Jan. 12-14,
Jan. 8-11,
Jan. 5-7,
Jan. 1-4,
2001
Dec. 30-31,
Dec. 28-29,
Dec. 25-27,
Dec. 23-24,
Dec. 21-22,
Dec. 17-20,
Dec. 13-16,
Dec. 10-12,
Dec. 6-9,
Dec. 1-5,
Nov. 29-30,
Nov. 26-28,
Nov. 21-25,
Nov. 16-20,
Nov. 11-15,
Nov. 6-10,
Nov. 1-5,
Oct. 29-31,
Oct. 26-28,
Oct. 21-25,
2001
Oct. 16-20,
Oct. 11-15,
Oct. 6-10,
Oct. 1-5,
Sept. 26-30,
Sept. 21-25,
Sept. 16-20,
Sept. 11-15,
Sept. 6-10,
Sept. 4-5,
Sept. 1-3,
Aug. 26-31,
Aug. 21-25,
Aug. 16-20,
Aug. 11-15,
Aug. 9-10,
Aug. 6-8,
Aug. 1-5,
July 21-25,
2001
July 26-31
July 16-20,
July 11-15,
July 1-10,
June 27-30
June 22-26
June 15-21
June 8-14
June 1-7
Late May
Early May
Late Apr.
Early Apr.
Late Mar.
Early Mar.
Late Feb.
Early Feb.
Late Jan.
Early Jan.
2000
Late Dec.
Dec. 11-20,
Dec. 6-10,
Dec. 1-5,
Nov. 28-30,
Nov. 24-27,
Nov. 21-24,
Nov. 16-20,
Nov. 10-15,
Nov. 1-9,
Late Oct.
Early Oct.
Sept.
Aug.
July
June
Late May
Early May
April

Go to the top of the page.

ZoomDinosaurs.com
ALL ABOUT DINOSAURS!
What is a Dinosaur? Dino Info Pages Dinosaur Coloring Print-outs Name That Dino Biggest, Smallest, Oldest,... Evolution of Dinosaurs Dinos and Birds Dino Myths




Enchanted Learning®
Over 35,000 Web Pages
Sample Pages for Prospective Subscribers, or click below

Overview of Site
What's New
Enchanted Learning Home
Monthly Activity Calendar
Books to Print
Site Index

K-3
Crafts
K-3 Themes
Little Explorers
Picture dictionary
PreK/K Activities
Rebus Rhymes
Stories
Writing
Cloze Activities
Essay Topics
Newspaper
Writing Activities
Parts of Speech

Fiction
The Test of Time
iPhone app
TapQuiz Maps - free iPhone Geography Game

Biology
Animal Printouts
Biology Label Printouts
Biomes
Birds
Butterflies
Dinosaurs
Food Chain
Human Anatomy
Mammals
Plants
Rainforests
Sharks
Whales
Physical Sciences: K-12
Astronomy
The Earth
Geology
Hurricanes
Landforms
Oceans
Tsunami
Volcano
Languages
Dutch
French
German
Italian
Japanese (Romaji)
Portuguese
Spanish
Swedish
Geography/History
Explorers
Flags
Geography
Inventors
US History

Other Topics
Art and Artists
Calendars
College Finder
Crafts
Graphic Organizers
Label Me! Printouts
Math
Music
Word Wheels

Click to read our Privacy Policy

E-mail



Enchanted Learning Search

Search the Enchanted Learning website for:



Advertisement.



Advertisement.



Advertisement.





Copyright ©2000 EnchantedLearning.com ------ How to cite a web page