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Dino Talk Dec. 17-20, 2001: A Dinosaur Forum

It seems that scientist have discovered a new dinosaur that was excavated in China, it is yet to be named, but it is dinosaur that has feathers on it. This new dinosaur clearly shows primitive feathers, the tail and head clearly shows feathers, and tufts of down like feathers appear on other parts of its body. This dinosaur which was found in Laoning Province, clearly shows how the feathers where attached to the body. Previously sceintists who reject the dinosaur/bird link say that found associated with dinosaurs, where mixed up together when the bird and the dinosaur died.
This fossil however makes it indisputable that a body covering similar to feathers was present in non-avian dinosaurs.
I think this is really great news, so to all the people who still don't believe the link between dinosaur and bird...What do you have to say now?

from ***DinoSol***, age 19, Green Bay, WI, USA; December 20, 2001


I don't neccessarily believe that the boggle asteriod theory that much either, but it could be possible, it probably does happen, but I believe that something that happened 65 million yrs ago is rare. You never know though, also, I believe its a good idea to look onto this theory as well, because if it is true, than maybe when day if it does happen to the human race, maybe we can prevent it. Unlike dinosaurs, we have a chance to change our fate, so it doesn't seem so bad. Also the theory is still being tested in computer models, nothing new has come as of yet, and I don't think 400,000 yrs is a very long time either, but maybe the meteors that come into contact with Earth every 400,000 yrs aren't as large as the one that hit the cretaceous time. This may seem alittle extreme, but if the sun where to wobble, we'd be pretty screwed right now, because we could be throw off course, also the fact that the sun itself is like a big magnet...Well, we a! re screwed anyways, because the sun is going to get redder and also bigger. Long after where did, maybe millions more years, our planet which we call Earth will be sucked in by our sun, because it will be too large. Least thats what I was told by my proffesor, and its quite interesting. You have to also take into consideration, that if there is a wobble within the planets that i mentioned, it could happen, probably just not to the same affect as 65 million yrs ago. If that was to occur every 400,000 yrs, I don't even know if life could proccess the way it has been, so the theory probably says it does happen, but not a catastrophic as during the cretaceous. Besides, they are still doing model test to see if something like that even happened during the cretaceous period. So if I find out anymore things about this lil theory, I'll tell you people.
:)

from ***DinoSol***, age 19, Green Bay, WI, USA; December 20, 2001


No, dinosaurs aren't very pouplar here.
One person I know only knows the name of 2 dinosaurs: T-Rex and Triceratops.

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


DID YOU KNOW THAT THE T-REX IS WAS MOST LIKELEY TO BY A SCAVENGER BECAUSE IT COULD NOT RUN FAST
from KATE M, age 10, SWAN MARSH, VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA; December 20, 2001


Yes,America is the most popular place for dinosaurs,Antartica is the least popular.
from Donovan c., age 12, ?, singapore, ?; December 20, 2001


We say, da masta, dinosaurs are not too popular here in America. Nobody in our school likes dinos as much as us.

So, that was Gianna's note, I got something to say. We met each other in school and became very nice friends.So that's why we are at my house.

Me, Gianna again. So anyway, what's the topic now, there's a bunch but what's the main one.
from Gianna and Diloph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


"Hi there i would just like to know why dinosaurs became extinct and what is it with volocoraptor?!?!"

No one knows why dnosaurs came extinct, but there are a few thoeries.

I don't know what a "volocoraptor" is, but I do know what a Velociraptor mongoliensis is. :-)

V. mongoliensis was a dromaeosaur from the Cretaceous(if I spell that wrong, tell me. I'm not perfect at spelling) period. Most people call it a "raptor" but that is word describing dromaesaurs in general. It had a killing claw on the second toe of each foot. It would use this claw in a slicing motion to kill prey. There is speculation though. It could be just for show.

-Raptor Red
from Raptor Red, age 11, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


Brad:

It is an Emperor Penguin.
from Raptor Red, age 11, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


Da Masta,dinosaurs aren't popular to kids accept me and a couple other people. There are a lot of paleontologists but kids don't really like them. To me dinosaurs are the coolest things in the world.
from DanW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


"I want that book, "Raptor Red."

Where can I get it now, anyone know?"

Well, you can order it at Amamzon.com and you can get it at the local Barnes and Noble.
from Raptor Red, age 11, Columbus, Ohio, USA; December 20, 2001


"well,actually spino was not bigger than t-rex.in jp3 they portrayed
a fish eater to be a super-predator."

Does anyone have any evidence for Spinosaurus being a fish-eater?

"the facts that were wrong are,spino is way too big and very robustly built,its jaws were too big and had too many teeth.and in the jp3 logo the spino has two big claws on each hand,just like a baryonx,which spino did not have."

Spinosauroids do have more teeth than typical for theropods. I doubt the tooth count was too high in the JP3 Spinosaurus, but the teeth did look to be curved back too far. Baryonyx only has one large claw per hand. The hands of Spinosaurus are unknown, so we can't know what its claws were like. But considering that large thumb claws are a feature of its closest relatives (Baryonyx, Suchomimus) and also more distantly related tetanurans (Dryptosaurus, Sinosauropteryx, Utahraptor, Allosaurus) I think it is reasonable to suggest that Spinosaurus had big claws too.

"spino in real life was a large fish eater 15-16feet tall and weighed
3-4 tons,t-rex was 16-20 feet tall and was 6-8 tons."

I seriously doubt that Spinosaurus would only weigh half as much as Tyrannosaurus. This idea seems to be based in Greg Paul's description of spinosaurids as relatives of Dilophosaurus, which isn't very likely.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; December 20, 2001


"Well, knowledge isn't everything, and I must admit that my creativity and imagination are something pitiful.

You need to talk to some of zoomDinosaurs great writers and artists, and I am happy to say that we have many here.

And by the way, can you be more specific on what kind of thing you'll have to do/make?"

Well, I have to come up with a problem, then I have to write a hypothosis (If ___________, Then _____________ is how my teacher told me to write it), and then I do the report using the scienctific method, and I have to experiment to come up with a conclusion.

People say I'm creative because I write pretty good, but I'm not.

Oh, and BTW, I posted a story, its called Carnovore Island: Jurassic Park. I want to know if it is actually good.

-Raptor Red
"Me.... Raptor... Red." -Raptor Red by Robert T. Bakker

from Raptor Red, age 11, The Unknown, An Island, Somewhere; December 20, 2001


Aptenodytes forsteri? I've never heard of it. Is it a bird?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; December 20, 2001


Hi there i would just like to know why dinosaurs became extinct and what is it with volocoraptor?!?!
from Candy, age 16, London, ?, England; December 20, 2001


t-rex is my favorite.
everyone has seen jp3 and they think spino is bigger.
well,actually spino was not bigger than t-rex.in jp3 they portrayed
a fish eater to be a super-predator.the facts that were wrong
are,spino is way too big and very robustly built,its jaws were too
big and had too many teeth.and in the jp3 logo the spino has two big
claws on each hand,just like a baryonx,which spino did not have.so in my conclusion the creature in jp3 looked like a cross between a
suchomimus and baryonx.
besides it a freaking movie,kids say ohh spino could kill a t-rex and
that it was bigger,but spino was not bigger.so thats hollywood for ya,
they never get things right,and jp3 has a history of screwing dinosaurs up.so you stupid t-rex haters you should shut up.
spino in real life was a large fish eater 15-16feet tall and weighed
3-4 tons,t-rex was 16-20 feet tall and was 6-8 tons.
you dumb spino fans are really high on goofball!!!!!.spino will never be as popular as t-rex. so you spino fans can act like the fags you are but t-rex is and always be the best and most popular ,ha ha ha ha.
yeah right spino bigger than t-rex hahaha!!! what a joke

from rretet, age 14, ham, ont, canada; December 20, 2001


"HAYYY EVERY ONE I WAS JUST WOUNDERING WHAT IS THE HAIREST DINO OUT THERE?>"

Aptenodytes forsteri and relatives would be a good contender, they are not strictly "hairly", but have the most insulation of any dinosaur we have evidence of.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


"I wander what there going to find through this, do any of you think, there could actually be some dino dna*"

Most of the useful DNA has broken down long ago, and not to mention all the nonavain dinosaur fossils we find are pertified rock, not really organic bone. We have been lucky enough to extract some fragments of DNA here and there, but it's all terribly messed up and not too much good for doing anything much, as far as recreating nonavian dinosaurs are concerned.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


"They say that this occurs every 400,000 yrs, they also indicate that the orbital change is incredibly small, almost unnoticeable, but its apparently enough to move asteriods."

Every 400,000 years? That seems a little short. Unless you mean an non-major asteriod crashing every now an then like in Tungusta. I certainly can't imagine EEL (Extinction Level Events) happening once every 400,000 years, it seems kinda quick for diversity to recover.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


are Vollosirapters real?
from nolan m., age 15, so. portland, Maine, usa; December 20, 2001


I want that book, "Raptor Red."

Where can I get it now, anyone know?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


In America, are dinosaurs really popular?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


Actually, as I'm ill, and staying at home, my vacation started on wednesday! And as my parents are working, I get to stay here and do whatever I want! Including surf the internet all day long!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


Cheers Donovan.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


Yeah, so we know why Tim M is away.

But where've T - Master and Brad gone?!?

Please come back!

And if T - Master's gone, then we'll never see such good trivia ever again!!!!! How come people leave here so often!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


Actually, I don't see the problem with Triceratops having semi-sprawed limbs. The real problem I do have with him standing upright is that his shoulder is going to ache one great lot when his humerous grinds unnaturally into his socket, busting the joint and rupturing the lubricating jelly cell within, not to mention spalling off the edges of the socket before fusing while healing and rendering the joint quite immobile. Conclusion, if any Triceratops did stand upright in an improved stance, they must have gone extinct pretty fast, before their sprawed individuals. Triceratops and co. in general, did have some degree of a spraw in their forelimbs, never upright and columnar like an elephant.

On a personal note, I seriously wonder why the "charging like a rhino" theme is so popular for application on ceratopsidae. The cursorial adaptations of these two animals were quite different and there are certain morphlogical functions that restrict large ceratopsians from such actions in the first place. A large, charging ceratopsian (if it could even do that in the first place), can't move in more then a straight line, and in most cases, is facing a Tyrannosaurid that is faster and more agile then it in the first place. A deft sidestep by a Tyrannosaurid would bring it out of harms way and present it with a rather nice target of ceratopsian behind, after which the prey will not get a second chance (the charging ceratopsian becomes an even easier target if the Tyrannosaurids are double-teaming him). Unless the ceratopsian was desperate, I doubt such risky behaviour factored into defense. Of course, I doubt they could even manage a turn of speed that could be considered by a predator to be a serious charge in the first place. I think it's much easier and workable to simply stand there and keep facing those horns at the predator, rather then charge it. Of course it works even better if you are in a group. I doubt the lone ceratopsian stands much of a chance against an experienced Tyrannosaurid, though they are certainly a tad more dangerous then the hardosaurs!
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


"Da masta, i am returning your question. I am from USA. Your from Britain? Britain is awesome, their helping us whoopthe pants off the taliban and alkeida. it stinks, i really want to meet you.(i promise i am not a crook tring to trick you, i mean if i did meet you i woudn't do anything to you)since you live in Britain i won't be able to meet you."

Yes, I don't think you are a paedophile! Let's hope one never comes to this site.

And let me guess. Other people think you are a "boffin" 'cause you actually try to learn? Nobody else near you interested in dinosaurs? You think that the sad and unimportant things your classmates talk about are boring (Punk rock, who's going out with who, blah blah blah,) so you find it hard to find people to talk to, who want to talk about INTERESTING stuff?

I got the same problem. Sigh.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


"Well, hi.
I have a question. What should I do for my science fair project that is dinosaur related? I would like it to have something to do with Velociraptor.
Please reply.
Thanks!
Yours Truely,
Raptor Red"

Well, knowledge isn't everything, and I must admit that my creativity and imagination are something pitiful.

You need to talk to some of zoomDinosaurs great writers and artists, and I am happy to say that we have many here.

And by the way, can you be more specific on what kind of thing you'll have to do/make?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


I don't really think it's that warm in Southern Australia...in fact, it seems really cold for summer this year in Tasmania, in fact, it was even snowing near Hobart.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2001


Yes go to your school Gianna cause I've seen you talk to your friends be4
from Diloph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


The details of the beasts in the annual 2002 book was about how many million years ago did the beasts came about,what they ate and the last few pages are about who they were related to.like deinothrium was related to elephants for example.
from Donovan c., age 12, ?, singapore, ?; December 19, 2001


Me and Diloph's vacation starts on Friday too...I know, Diloph goes to my school/ right?
from Gianna, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


Well, hi.

I have a question. What should I do for my science fair project that is dinosaur related? I would like it to have something to do with Velociraptor.

Please reply.

Thanks!

Yours Truely,

Raptor Red
from Raptor Red, age 11, . . ., . . ., . . .; December 19, 2001


Dinosol, it would be Mars Earth Venus instead of Mercury. Because Venus is after Mercury so the wobblewould effect Venus because Venus is bigger and closer to the astroid belt
from DanW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


Da masta, i am returning your question. I am from USA. Your from Britain? Britain is awesome, their helping us whoopthe pants off the taliban and alkeida. it stinks, i really want to meet you.(i promise i am not a crook tring to trick you, i mean if i did meet you i woudn't do anything to you)since you live in Britain i won't be able to meet you.
from DanW, age ?, ?, ?, USA; December 19, 2001


Geez if you looked at Late August in the fave dinosaurs section....well, you know Tim M to be calm, there he was just as wild as everyone else.
from Gianna, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


"They say that this occurs every 400,000 yrs"

So when's the next one? Not in our lifetime?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


"The force bite of Tyrannosaurus Rex was sheer power, no one would of liked to have been bitten by that guy, well, in my honest opinion, I wouldn't want to get bitten by any carnivore dinosaur, big or small. For now, Tyrannosaurus Rex is the "Undisputed King of Biting" but will we ever find another dinosaur that will bite even more powerful then our Tyrant lizard King? Maybe, but its going to be hard to beat, Tyrannosaurus Rex is undisputed as of to date with the biting power, but lets give the big guy a rest about his teeth. To what I read here, we seem to have alot of knowlegable people, I think what would be more interesting if people could find info, or what they believe on how T-Rex would of used his mass, power, and speed to take down prey*OH, EVERYBODY WOULD AGREE ON THAT I THINK. T - REX HIDES IN A STAND OF TREES, A HADROSAUR COMES BY, REX RUSHES OUT, HE'S REAL FAST, GRABS IT'S NECK AND KILLS IT. OR ROARS AT A HERD TO FRIGHTEN IT AND MAKE IT! RUN, AND THEN CHASE IT. THE WEAKER INDIVIDUALS END UP BEHIND, THEY TIRE, AND THEN T - REX GAINS ON THEM, AND GRABS ONE OF THEM WITH HIS JAWS. THEN HE EATS.*. I also heard in one of the sites that I went too, they seem to have found some calcium I believe in a dinosaur bone*IF THEY HAVE, THAT'S REALLY AMAZING!*, I forgot, I don't really remember much, but I'll look into it later. If this is true,! then maybe, just maybe, this interests me, for since, you know that when something dies, it rots very quickly, bones become hard, and fossilize, but it seems this calcium in the bone has survived for these millions of years. I wander what there going to find through this, do any of you think, there could actually be some dino dna*HMM... ONLY IF THEY'RE VERY LUCKY. IT'S HARDER TO GET DNA FROM TISSUE (AND THIS IS BONE! CALCIUM!) THAN FROM BLOOD, BUT THEY JUST MIGHT. BUT IF THERE IS ANY LEFT, THE DNA WILL NOT BE COMPLETE, ANYWAY, DNA BREAKS DOWN WHEN IT IS NOT NEEDED ANY MORE, SO DNA BR! EAKS DOWN VERY QUICKLY AFTER DEATH. EVEN IF THE ANIMAL WAS BURIED IMMEDIATELY, THE CHANCES OF FINDIND A COMPLETE STRAND ARE VERY REMOTE INDEED.* ? I just thought this would be kinda interesting to get some or your opinions."

AND I'M VERY INTERESTED IN THE WOBBLING ORBITS THEORY. I THINK TIM M WILL BE ESPECIALLY INTERESTED, HE LOVES ASTRONOMY. YOU REALLY WANT AN OPINION OFF HIM.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


"The walking with beasts annual 2002 book is a book that provides quick imformation about the beasts,there are are also activity pages.And like in the WWB book,was deinotherium's trunk THAT short?"

Thanks Donovan, but how detailed is it?

And yes, deinotherium's trunk probably WAS that short, because of the structure of the nasal openings.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


"unless you are a creationist trying to make Tyrannosaurus out as a weak-toothed grass eater"

I agree with you mostly, but grass only evolved around the oligocene, or somewhere around that time!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


"i hope velocirapter wasnt feathered"

I think velociraptor would look better without feathers too, but it probably did have feathers.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


"SUMMER HOLIDAYS? Oh, yeah, it's different in Australia. Here in the U.S. Winter Vacation is coming up.....CHRISTMAS IS ALMOST HERE!!"

Hey, my XMas holidays start this friday! Oh yeah! When're yours?

This means I'll be able to go here a lot virtually EVERY DAY! Cool...
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


"Of course, the issue of Triceratops stance is still extremely contentious."

"Of course"!!!!!!!!??????!!!!!!

There's NOTHING to argue about! Triceratops is a 5 and half ton animal, for God's sake! To support it's weight efficiently, it'd need to stand UPRIGHT.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2001


There was this interesting theory that I read about which really intrigues me, it sounds very possible also, but I'll have to look into it alittle more. Astrobiologist Bruce Runnegar suggested that the orbits of three planets wobbled enough to move asteroids out of the asteroid belt causing one to strike the Earth. Runnegar says that research and computer models indicate that the orbits of Mars, Earth, and Mercury moved just enough to change the gravitational pull on asteroids, possibly sending one crashing into the Earth. They say that this occurs every 400,000 yrs, they also indicate that the orbital change is incredibly small, almost unnoticeable, but its apparently enough to move asteriods. Computer models are being run to determine if such "wobble" actually happened during the K-T boundary, the geologhichal time between the cretaceous period and the Teritary period. I'll give you guys more info when the more news comes out about this.

:)
from ***DinoSol***, age 19, Green Bay, WI, USA; December 18, 2001


The force bite of Tyrannosaurus Rex was sheer power, no one would of liked to have been bitten by that guy, well, in my honest opinion, I wouldn't want to get bitten by any carnivore dinosaur, big or small. For now, Tyrannosaurus Rex is the "Undisputed King of Biting" but will we ever find another dinosaur that will bite even more powerful then our Tyrant lizard King? Maybe, but its going to be hard to beat, Tyrannosaurus Rex is undisputed as of to date with the biting power, but lets give the big guy a rest about his teeth. To what I read here, we seem to have alot of knowlegable people, I think what would be more interesting if people could find info, or what they believe on how T-Rex would of used his mass, power, and speed to take down prey. I also heard in one of the sites that I went too, they seem to have found some calcium I believe in a dinosaur bone, I forgot, I don't really remember much, but I'll look into it later. If this is true,! then maybe, just maybe, this interests me, for since, you know that when something dies, it rots very quickly, bones become hard, and fossilize, but it seems this calcium in the bone has survived for these millions of years. I wander what there going to find through this, do any of you think, there could actually be some dino dna? I just thought this would be kinda interesting to get some or your opinions.
from ***DinoSol***, age 19, Green Bay, WI, U.S.A.; December 18, 2001


"I'm not sure if this was meant to be argumentative towards me or not, as it seems to support my previous post rather than refute it."

My point was that that paper supported my saying that 13,400 N was not a conservative estimate, although your saying it was might also hold water in considering the whole "intertia" factor.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


jack horner is stupid as anything he doesnt know anything now let me take yall back to the fight of jp3 this is why rex would have killed spino

rex was scavenging on a stinky dead dino until dr grant comes upon and rex chases him into spino spino roars rex roars and rex bites spino in the and slams him into the ground dragging him that right there would have killed spino 1.rexes jaws would have snapp his neck to death 2.rex slammed his head 17 feet on the ground and dragged him skinny as spinos face was he would have died instantly then rex throws spino spino snaps at rex and rex dodges its swing like a real rex would do cause they were fast and flexible then rex bites spinos sail that right there would have killed spino that would be a mess all them blood vessels in that sail would pop and bursts of blood would have occured then rex headbutts spino spinos falls gets up bite rexes neck and snaps it with his arms-------in real life spino is late cause he would already be dead from rexes first bite horner is real dumb never believe this fool i see why jp3 0(*& to everyone
from j=dogg, age 23, dc, dc, usa; December 18, 2001


The walking with beasts annual 2002 book is a book that provides quick imformation about the beasts,there are are also activity pages.And like in the WWB book,was deinotherium's trunk THAT short?
from Donovan c., age 12, ?, singapore, ?; December 18, 2001


jack horner is stupid as anything he doesnt know anything now let me take yall back to the fight of jp3 this is why rex would have killed spino

rex was scavenging on a stinky dead dino until dr grant comes upon and rex chases him into spino spino roars rex roars and rex bites spino in the and slams him into the ground dragging him that right there would have killed spino 1.rexes jaws would have snapp his neck to death 2.rex slammed his head 17 feet on the ground and dragged him skinny as spinos face was he would have died instantly then rex throws spino spino snaps at rex and rex dodges its swing like a real rex would do cause they were fast and flexible then rex bites spinos sail that right there would have killed spino that would be a mess all them blood vessels in that sail would pop and bursts of blood would have occured then rex headbutts spono spinos falls gets up bite rexes neck and snaps it with his arms-------in real life spino is late cause he would already be dead from rexes first bite horner is real dumb
from j=dogg, age 23, dc, dc, usa; December 18, 2001


"These "greater forces", however, are not discussed further."

So? Unless you haven't been listening closely, the existence of a 'greater force' (sounds religious) in Tyrannosaurus bite have not been disputed, only undetermined. I'll be extremely surprised if Tyrannosaurus could nto bite harder then 13,000 newtons, for it certainly had jaws far more robust and stronger, not to mention, far more jaw muscle then the American Alligator, the only taxon to come close to Tyrannosaurus (and that is when the Alligator is snapping its jaws shut as fast as possible while attacking prey). And besides, the 13,000 estimate could be old, even as a feeding estimate. People are looking into a Triceratops frill with a huge chunk taken out of it which seems to indicate even greater forces. "not discussed further" or not, there is an overwhelming majority of evidence pointing towards a stronger biting Tyrannosaurus rex, (unless you are a creationist trying to make Tyrannosaurus out as a weak-toothed grass eater). You are fighting an uphill battle (if not ho! plessly locigally pitched from the start), hiding behind a very transparent and rapidly dissolving argument of supposed "nobody has discussed it further".
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"These 'greater forces', however, are not discussed further."

So? I don't see how this really supports 13,400 newtons as a high end estimate as you have said when the researchers themselves indicate that the figure was conservative. They admit that Tyrannosaurus could easily bite much harder, though they have not derived the figure yet. Besides, after the study, the idea that Tyrannosaurus could bite much harder has already been anknowledged. If your argument were to hold, one can argue that 6 kph was an upper-end speed estimate for a supposedly "speedy" dinosaur like, say, Velociraptor based on the only tracks we found of it moving at such a speed... other higher speeds are not "discussed further", and therefore, do not exist. Some things are pretty obvious, without needing even a fair bit of deduction.

However, you lack of up-to-date knowledge into the matter is apparent here, other scientists have recently tried to find out the maximum bite force by using FEA computer siumlations that they developed on Allosaurus Fragilis, they determined the absolute bite force of Tyrannosaurus at as they put it "anywhere from 2 to 4 times that of the feeding bite". Go look it up.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


i hope velocirapter wasnt feathered
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


SUMMER HOLIDAYS? Oh, yeah, it's different in Australia. Here in the U.S. Winter Vacation is coming up.....CHRISTMAS IS ALMOST HERE!!
from Diloph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"Then allow me to back up my claim. I refer you to:

Erickson, G. M., S. D. Van Kirk, J. Su, M. E. Levenston, W. E. Caler, and D. Carter. 1996. Bite-force estimation for Tyrannosaurus rex from tooth-marked bones. Nature 382: 706-708.

I quote, 'The estimates (6,410 to 13,400 N) rival the largest bite forces determined for any taxon to date and suggest that _T. rex_ had very strong, impact resistant teeth.'

and...

'These considerations suggest that bite forces as high as 13,400 N could have been produced by an adult _T. rex_ during feeding. Greater forces may have been possible during snapping bites or those involving bodily inertia to augment tooth penetration.'

These 'greater forces', however, are not discussed further."

I'm not sure if this was meant to be argumentative towards me or not, as it seems to support my previous post rather than refute it.
from Ten-Shun, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


I read about the Celeophysis today. They are cool!!!!!!!!!
from Ashleigh, age 12, dover, de, usa; December 18, 2001


A tomo is what New Zealanders call a cave entrance which is like a vertical drop (Its Maori).

Yey!! Its finally the summer holidays.
from Tom G, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


Dum didy dum, oh sorry about that I forgot what I was goging to say.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


Dan W and da masta, are you calling me dum?! I hait being called dum! Because if you are, then kiss my ***!!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


Tom G, what's a tomo(I read your story and it said something about it)
from Diloph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


It pretty a felony to say that T.rex was slow. It is probably the speediest 6-ton land animal design known to man. T.rex had no problem outrunning any of its prey items. Spinosaurus is far...far behind.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"So is Jack Horner a fake then?"

I think so.
from Op, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"Whoever posted this, most likely did not give their identity because of the outright falseness of their post. The 13,000 newton figure is thought to be lower than full strength, as the estimate was made from simulated feeding bites."

Then allow me to back up my claim. I refer you to:

Erickson, G. M., S. D. Van Kirk, J. Su, M. E. Levenston, W. E. Caler, and D. Carter. 1996. Bite-force estimation for Tyrannosaurus rex from tooth-marked bones. Nature 382: 706-708.

I quote, "The estimates (6,410 to 13,400 N) rival the largest bite forces determined for any taxon to date and suggest that _T. rex_ had very strong, impact resistant teeth."

and...

"These considerations suggest that bite forces as high as 13,400 N could have been produced by an adult _T. rex_ during feeding. Greater forces may have been possible during snapping bites or those involving bodily inertia to augment tooth penetration."

These "greater forces", however, are not discussed further.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"Scratch that last message I just wrote. I meant to say Da mata thanks for understanding*SURE :)*. you probably hate this love thing too."

Yeah, I gotta admit, it is annoying.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"HAYYY EVERY ONE I WAS JUST WOUNDERING WHAT IS THE HAIREST DINO OUT THERE?>"

You know I am very busy right now. If you really want me to answer that, then just tell me. Just I think that you're not really being serious.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"I think Spinosaurus is the longest Theropod but not the largest"

Hmm, yes, well maybe it was the longest. It doesn't matter, really. It certainly isn't the largest, you're right.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"Velociraptor was very bird like but did not evolve into emu's. *NO, IT DIDN'T, YOU'RE RIGHT.* Birds evolved nearly 60 million years before velociraptor" HMM, I THINK THAT ARCHEOPTERYX WAS AN EVOLUTIONARY DEAD-END. IT AND IT'S ANCESTORS DIED OUT. BUT OTHER BIRDS, THAT STARTED TO EVOLVE AT AROUND THE SAME TIME AS ARCHEOPTERYX(WELL, CERTAINLY BEFORE VELOCIRAPTOR!), WITH THE SAME OR SIMILAR ANCESTORS, EVOLVED INTO TODAY'S BIRDS. BUT YOUR POINT STILL REMAINS VALID, AND IN MY VIEW RIGHT.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"SPINOSAURUS, THE LARGEST MEAT EATING DINOSAUR!!!!!!!!! Jack Horner must have been hit in the head! Spinosaurus....the largest............
Steven Spielberg should let Rex back in. Spino...bigger...gosh...........!"

I don't know, spino wasn't the biggest or longest I think. It was still pretty big. Size is no indicator of ferocity or toughness, however; but I do acknowledge that it is not as tough as T - Rex. And I think that the sheer forces involved in a spino and rex fight (yes I know that in real life it never happened!) would be so huge that both would be so horrifically damaged that they could not live properly. They would never have fought anyway, even if they had lived together, because there would just be no point for any of them to wreck their lives fighting like that. They do need to pass on their genes, you know!

And I would just like to say that I like Spino no matter what people say.

And Tim (not M,) dinosaurs where not reptiles. Anyone want any more info, just ask. :) And I'm amazed WHY they're still considered reptiles! Everyone knows that they're not!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"Well...they said that JP had Jack Horner tell the information to the people. Know wut he said? He said spinosaurus was the largest meat eating dinosaur that ever lived...psh..whatever. So is Jack Horner a fake then? =\"

No, I don't think that Horner is a fake, but if he's a professional paleontologist, then he should know better.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


Hmm, just a thought -

Triceratops bones in life where similar in structure, density, etc. to the bones of a modern day cow? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question, but this isn't exactly my field...

Because the bones we find have been turned into minerals over the years, haven't they?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


Ah, Ten - Shun, thank you for that post. Yes, if that is how they got the estimates for the bite force exerted by a tyrannosaur, I would agree with you.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


Dan W, what country are you from? I'm just wondering.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"I'll save myself the trouble and won't bother to answer, for most people here know that most of the "facts" above are utter nonsense"

Yes. John, you know a lot about dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals, and you are undoubtedly clever, but there's something I've noticed about you.

You are normally quiet, you just read messages and don't come in a lot.
But whenever someone is wrong, you jump in, and tell them. "You are wrong." "What you said is nonsense." You are right, yes, sometimes people do say nonsense, but it isn't always their fault. You should be patient and explain to them. My point is that it would be nice if you showed as much enthusiasm when someone is right, congradulated as much as pointed out mistakes. I think it is a sad feature of the human nature that people spot other's mistakes better than their accomplishments.

from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"Hi da masta. I like you to!!!!!!"

Well, that's nice. We do generally like each other here.

Is this the mystery writer writing, or who? Because I do think that you should tell Dan W in real life rather than here. If Dan W likes you, well, that's not up to me. =)
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


Tim (not M), if you think we are wrong somewhere, tell us nicely without exploding like that. That was a hopeless attempt to prove yourself. You need to intergrate slowly, gain respect, and be nice, I know from personal experience. Losing your temper never helps. You may yet be accepted if you apologise and try to be more subtle. You did have errors in what you said, by the way. Maybe I shouldn't have wrote this if you're never coming back. 'Cause maybe you won't see it. But just maybe you will...
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"Nope. That measurement was at the upper end of the spectrum, actually."

Was it? Well, I'll leave this to people who know more.

And you know hyenas have bone crushing bites and eat bone, etc?
Could tyrannosaurs do that? Maybe the tyrannosaur wanted to eat the bone, and then it would need to apply a lot of pressure. I don't think the bite marks where an accident. Alligators and crocodiles can regulate the force of their bite very precisely, and I think tyrannosaurs could too.

from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"My cat is a great example"

Your cat is not related to tyrannosaurs! :)
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"Da Masta is from britan? How come his english so bad?"

Really? Where? Nevermind, anyway. I think it isn't important as long as people understand me.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"okay fine, i guess I'k come back. I'm wondering where Tim is"

Great!
Tim says he's very busy. Lots of homework, etc.

He'll come back when he's got time.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2001


"rex-couldnt run, females larger, lazy scavengers"
T rex wasn't a "lazy scavenger". If it was why would it have such a powerful bite?
"spino-ran, both large, sail for solar energy(dinosaurs WERE REPTILES)"
T Rex is actually larger (not longer) than Spinosaurus.
"v raptor-fast, slender, probably not in packs(evolved to emu)"
Here is a good example of you not knowing what things evolled from. Velociraptor was very bird like but did not evolve into emu's. Birds evolved nearly 60 million years before velociraptor
"compy- chicken size, fast for its size, few found
anklyasauras(nobody talks about)-heavy, strong, dangerous, no under side protection"
We do talk about it. Just recently there was a dissucion about whether t rex would be able to kill one.
"archeoptyrix-flightless, small, slow, heavy, colorful"
Archaeopteryx was light and could probably glide for short distances. it wasn't slow ether. And we don't know if its colourful, it could've been dull coloured as camoflage. And early birds like Archaeopteryx evolved into all birds.
"pterosaurs-omnivors, thin skin, light weight, fast in air, walked on 4
pterrobirds-heavy, flightless, evolved to ostrich"
I'd like to know what the hell pterrobirds are.
"stegasauras&tricerotops-herbivore-dangerous spikes for defense
plesiosaur-one of my fave., supposed Loch Ness Monster, long neck, flippers/fins, carnivors, large teeth, average speed
"vesilisauras-enormas, carnivore"
What is vesilisaurus? I've never heard of it.
"ichthiasauras-average size, carnivore, anscestor of bottlenose dolphin, lived in colonies"
Ichthyosaurs are NOT ancestord of Dolphins. The small rodent sized early mammals like Morganucodon are alot more closely related to dolphins than Ichthyosaurs. Just because they look a little bit similar it dosen't mean they are related.
"JP movies-almost completely fake, used imagination to create
THIS IS A DINOSAUR SITE. TALK ABOUT DINOSAURS INSTEAD OF THINGS COMPLETELY OFF THE SUBJECT. ALSO, DONT CUSS PEOPLE OUT.IM LEAVING, AND BECAUSE OF THE @(*)*LES THAT ARE HERE, PROBABLY NOT COMING BACK.
from tim (not m), age 11, cleveland, maybe, U.S.of A.; December 17, 2001"

It seems tim dosen't know much about prehistoric animals
from Tom G, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


"rex-couldnt run, females larger, lazy scavengers
spino-ran, both large, sail for solar energy(dinosaurs WERE REPTILES)
v raptor-fast, slender, probably not in packs(evolved to emu)
compy- chicken size, fast for its size, few found
anklyasauras(nobody talks about)-heavy, strong, dangerous, no under side protection
archeoptyrix-flightless, small, slow, heavy, colorful
pterosaurs-omnivors, thin skin, light weight, fast in air, walked on 4
pterrobirds-heavy, flightless, evolved to ostrich
stegasauras&tricerotops-herbivore-dangerous spikes for defense
plesiosaur-one of my fave., supposed Loch Ness Monster, long neck, flippers/fins, carnivors, large teeth, average speed
vesilisauras-enormas, carnivore
ichthiasauras-average size, carnivore, anscestor of bottlenose dolphin, lived in colonies
JP movies-almost completely fake, used imagination to create
THIS IS A DINOSAUR SITE. TALK ABOUT DINOSAURS INSTEAD OF THINGS COMPLETELY OFF THE SUBJECT. ALSO, DONT CUSS PEOPLE OUT.IM LEAVING, AND BECAUSE OF THE @(*)*LES THAT ARE HERE, PROBABLY NOT COMING BACK."

I'll save myself the trouble and won't bother to answer, for most people here know that most of the "facts" above are utter nonsense.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


"Nope. That measurement was at the upper end of the spectrum, actually."

Nope. That measurement was pretty conservative actually.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


I think Spinosaurus is the longest Theropod but not the largest
from Tom G, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


HAYYY EVERY ONE I WAS JUST WOUNDERING WHAT IS THE HAIREST DINO OUT THERE?>
from william, age 21, VEGAS, NV, USA; December 17, 2001


SPINOSAURUS, THE LARGEST MEAT EATING DINOSAUR!!!!!!!!! Jack Horner must have been hit in the head! Spinosaurus....the largest............
Steven Spielberg should let Rex back in. Spino...bigger...gosh...........!

from Diloph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


Well...they said that JP had Jack Horner tell the information to the people. Know wut he said? He said spinosaurus was the largest meat eating dinosaur that ever lived...psh..whatever. So is Jack Horner a fake then? =\
from Neko, age 11, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


"Nope. That measurement was at the upper end of the spectrum, actually."

Not exactly. The figure was obtained by simulating bite marks to match those found on Triceratops by experiments forcing replica Tyrannosaur teeth into fresh cow bones. These tests indicate the dinosaurs could bite with a force of 13,400 newtons. However as Erickson pointed out, even the figure obtained was just that of the normal forces that the animal would have reached with minimal effort while feeding and that the figure obtained for what a Tyrannosaurus could bite at while attacking prey was going to be much higher.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


"Nope. That measurement was at the upper end of the spectrum, actually."

Whoever posted this, most likely did not give their identity because of the outright falseness of their post. The 13,000 newton figure is thought to be lower than full strength, as the estimate was made from simulated feeding bites.

Scientific American, September 1999, P.49 top right:
"BITE-FORCE GRAPH shows that T.rex is the undisputed champion. The author, working with bioengineer Dennis R. Carter of Stanford University, simulated the production of feeding bite marks, which are typically less than full strength, using a cast of a T.rex tooth on cow pelvises. They made a conservative esimate of approximately 13,000 newtons (about 2,900 pounds) for one side of the mouth."

I would like to point out they said "conservative esimate." Can you imagine the power of a full strength Tyrannosaurus bite?
from Ten-Shun, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


Hi da masta. I like you to!!!!!!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


Jordan, Brooke, Nicole, Lindsey and a lot more. I am not going to miss judge you but, these are my real friends>
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


I said 20,000 pounds per square inch, not newtons
from DanW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


Scratch that last message I just wrote. I meant to say Da mata thanks for understanding. you probably hate this love thing too.
from DanW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


rex-couldnt run, females larger, lazy scavengers
spino-ran, both large, sail for solar energy(dinosaurs WERE REPTILES)
v raptor-fast, slender, probably not in packs(evolved to emu)
compy- chicken size, fast for its size, few found
anklyasauras(nobody talks about)-heavy, strong, dangerous, no under side protection
archeoptyrix-flightless, small, slow, heavy, colorful
pterosaurs-omnivors, thin skin, light weight, fast in air, walked on 4
pterrobirds-heavy, flightless, evolved to ostrich
stegasauras&tricerotops-herbivore-dangerous spikes for defense
plesiosaur-one of my fave., supposed Loch Ness Monster, long neck, flippers/fins, carnivors, large teeth, average speed
vesilisauras-enormas, carnivore
ichthiasauras-average size, carnivore, anscestor of bottlenose dolphin, lived in colonies
JP movies-almost completely fake, used imagination to create
THIS IS A DINOSAUR SITE. TALK ABOUT DINOSAURS INSTEAD OF THINGS COMPLETELY OFF THE SUBJECT. ALSO, DONT CUSS PEOPLE OUT.IM LEAVING, AND BECAUSE OF THE @(*)*LES THAT ARE HERE, PROBABLY NOT COMING BACK.

from tim (not m), age 11, cleveland, maybe, U.S.of A.; December 17, 2001


"But notice that the 13,400 newton figure is a conservative feeding bite estimate."

Nope. That measurement was at the upper end of the spectrum, actually.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


"Da masta this love thing isn't my fault. it's this mystery writer who's doing this"

I understand. You probably don't like it either.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2001


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