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ZoomDinosaurs.com
Dino Talk: A Dinosaur Forum

July 11-15, 2001



Note: Dr. Tom Holtz and Dr. Michael Brett-Surman are answering dinosaur questions for ZoomDinosaurs in July, 2001 (as publicity for their new dinosaur book). We'll post your questions and send them Drs. Holtz and Brett-Surman. Many, many answers are in.

did dino's ever live in Illinois? If So wha kind, how long ago, and where would their bones be located today?

thanks!!
peace-
chelsea b

from Chelsea B, age 18, phoenix, AZ, usa; July 15, 2001


Sketch: WHEN DINOSAURS WERE ROMANS IN AMERICA
from Sean.S, age ?, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 15, 2001


I just got through watching "When Dinosaurs Roamed America"...man that was a good show. I think it was much better than "Walking With Dinosaurs," which I thought was dull and rather boring. WDRM features superior animation and dinosaur interaction; plenty 'o fights!
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


Sorry, 50ft for spinsaurus. Do you guys think 94 min. is long for the movie?
from T-man, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


It was an airplane, not a helicopter. Actually, I don't see how the spinosaur didn't get hurt by the plane's propellars. And getting hit by an airplane would probably knock it out.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


I knew it! Honkie Tong is hostile to anything radical. Honkie Tong is...and always was, trying to make me look stupid!!!
from Sean.S, age ?, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 15, 2001


By the way,i'm still not convinced t-rex was better.
from Revision z, age ?, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 15, 2001


Posting another bloody allosaurus picture Honkie Tong? THATS VERY RUDE! I did'int mean it could jump 20 feet with nothing there to grab on to!!! You should be banned for that. I guess that proves what kind of guy you are does'int it? I may have had my rude moments,but i never posted bloody pictures of peoples favorite dinosaurs.
from Revision z, age ?, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 15, 2001


Corrected statistic:

Tyrannosaurus rex: 40-?46 feet, 6-8 tons
from Ten-Shun!, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


How could Giganatosaurus be 45-47 feet long when the only current specimen on display is 44 feet long...rounded up!
from Ten-Shun!, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


Jurassic Park three is going to be awesome, I can't wait to see it, I love the Special effects
from Dr. Alan Grant, age ?, Badlands, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


ive seen sneak previews of JP3. its gonna be a cool movie.
oh, contrary to popular belief, Spino did not swat the helicopter
down when they arrived on the island in jp3. unless my eyes r
playing tricks on me, the helicoptor ran into Spino's side.
This made Spino angry, so he destroyed it.

from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ??????; July 15, 2001


Spino: up to 15ft. 4 to 5 tons.
Tyrannosaurus Rex: 40 ft. 6 to 7tons
Carcharadontosaurus: 45 ft. 7.5 tons
Giganotosaurus: 45-47ft. 7 to 8tons

from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


Incedible Hulk to a dinosaur two tons heavier than itself! The giganotosaurus got up to 8 tons, and the T-rex got up to 6 tons.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


Please look at ebay item #1166693932 and try to tell me if this could be whale feces? I don't know what I have that I found in an old river bed but someone told me that it was whale feces. Is that possible? Has any been found? Is it rare. Please respond under contact seller. Thanks
from Dick, age 57, Willow Springs, Missouri, USA; July 15, 2001


That better not be a T.Rex in those final set of pictures from JP3...if it is, it better be sleeping after gorging itself on the Spinosaurus!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


"If the skeleton is lightly lighter, it is not going to be human and a gorilla. You seem to a T-rex is invincible compared to the other carnosaurs"

Not invincible, but I say the odds weight heavily in his favour:)
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


Well, another one of those Dino Warz Paintings are out, pass your comments now!

Not a bad picture Donovan, by the way, the carnivore stalking the injured Spinosaurus is an Carcharadontosaurus. On the issue of Tyrannosaurus jumping. I don't think T.rex made jumping a large part of his motion, but I can imagine him doing a small hop to bring him out of the letal radius of an Ankylosaurus club and doing a leap-strafe to the side to avoid a charging Triceratops, but nothing too major. Tyrannosaurus legs probably weighted 1.5 - 2 tons.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


Here's an extremely cool pic from the TYRANNOSAURUS / SPINOSAURUS fight in Jurassic Park 3. T. rex fans will love it!

http://members.aol.com/ectocooler4/spinrex2.jpg

And some others (SPOILERS, of course)-

http://members.aol.com/ectocooler4/spinrex1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ectocooler4/spinrex2.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ectocooler4/spinrex3.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ectocooler4/spinrex4.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ectocooler4/spinrex5.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ectocooler4/spinrex6.jpg

Can anyone identify the dead dinosaur?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 15, 2001


"Not that it matters though, as size is an indicator of only one thing: how physically big something is. It is not a measurement of success.

Case in point, the lion and the tiger. Although being slightly larger, the tiger is usually the victim when the two species meet in the wild. Lions prove to be more aggressive and drove tigers from africa.

Another example could be the bobcat and the lynx. The lynx is almost twice the size of the bobcat, yet is found only in a range a fraction of the size of the bobcat's. Again, this is due to the bobcat's higher aggressive qualities."

I agree, evidence seems to point towards T-man being a hecking load more agressive than the super-allosaurs. For starters the injuries inflicted on T-man fossils caused by other T-man (with even some evidence of canabillism) seem to point towards T-man being extremly mean. And they did have the adaptations to duke-it-out close quarters too.

Ps: You have to be pretty agressive and smart if you want to attack a triceratops, even a sick or weak one sucessfully.
from Damean, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


"A T-rex was not heavier than a carcharadontosaurus or a giganotosaurus. In fact the giganotosaurus is the heaviest meat eater right now. And the T-rex was only a ton or two heavier that spinosaurus. So a T-rex is not Schwarzeneggar compared to these dinos."

I kinda argee with you...he wasn't really a Schwarzeneggar compaired to these dinos...more like the friggin' INCREDIBLE HULK!
from Damean, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


Ohh...T.rex skeletons was not "slightly" lighter, it was very much heavier built! The skull itself actually weights slightly more than Giganotosaurus skull and is heavily reinforced with a special upper jaw hinge to give it a "spring" effect to absorb the incredible pressures it bit up to. Other adaptations included extremely thick skull supports and very thick side and jaw bones. The pear shape, tapering configuration of the skull gives a large space at the base of the skull to allow space for immense biting muscles to work the jaws. Compaired to the lightly built skull of Allosaurids like Giganotosaurus, Tyrannosaurus actually had more than twice the muscle out into the bite. Heck, there were even recesses to give a measure of protection to its eyes.

And that dosen't end there, the neck of Tyrannosaurids are the next most heavily built, with extremely thick and heavily built neck veterbre to house and support alot of muscles. Once again, this system is much stronger and heavier built than the ones in the necks of the super-allosaurids of similar size.

And further down, the ribs of Tyrannosaurus is also a very robustly built system, with ribs much thicker and curved than Giganotosaurus. Tyrannosaurus had a well protected, shock-resistant, barrel chest. Save for the tail, Tyrannosaurus was very much heavier built and would have supported a great load more muscles than the adverage Giganotosaurus. Not to mention it was almost certainly faster and smarter. The only reason that Giganotosaurus is heavier is mainly because its bulkier. But that's a bad thing, for it is technically weaker than Tyrannosaurus but having to lug more weight around. And injuries found on Tyrannosaurus skeletons do indicate they coudl take alot more pounding than the adverage allosaurid. Big Al's above-average number of injuries for allosaurids were common to T.rex, not to mention they take more seriosu injuries and somehow survive to kill (hole in braincase, broken neck, broken legs, chunk taken out of jaw) Tyrannosaurus, given his heavier built and power, can surely take alot more punishment as well.

Now, this is not as bad a thing as it seems as Giganotosaurus would have attacked sauropods (indeed, some sauropods that lived in Giganotosaurus' time do have armour on their backs, and the only animal large enough in that place to attack their backs was Giganotosaurus), and you don't need an extreme amount of mobility or agility to hunt sauropods, just avoid been trampled.

I think the reason Tyrannosaurus is stronger and smarter stems from the fact that the prey he hunted did two things: They either ran or fought back with deadly effect. And Tyrannosaurus probably evolved his formidible speed, strength and toughness for dealing with prey like Triceratops. He was certainly designed to take things out with one bite, and that's the main reason why I say he would have been more than enough to take on the likes of Giganotosaurus, for their six foot, mass-oriented designs to hunt very large prey are simply ill suited for dealing with an animal that excels in taking out things in one bite.

Giganotosaurus doesn't stand too much of a chance against Tyrannosaurus! If he really tried to bite T.rex with his five foot seven jaw, he'll find himself missing two feet of it after Tyrannosaurus punches through it like it was made of twigs...
from Damean, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


Brad, the Baryonyx was a fish-eater. The fish scales WERE in the stomach. I saw the specimen (I believe it was a cast) at the British Museum of Natural History.
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 15, 2001


Actually, for a T-rex or allosaurus to jump on the back of prey, they would need a high boulder or something to jump on them with. I doubt they could jump very high.
from T-man, age ?, 17, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


If the skeleton is lightly lighter, it is not going to be human and a gorilla. You seem to a T-rex is invincible compared to the other carnosaurs
from T-man, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


If a T-rex's leg supported his weight all the time he was walking, the legs would surely be strong enough hold his body if he jumped. If the T-rex could run 20 mph, he could surely make short range jumps. Even though he weighs alot, there was alot of weight in his legs. Both of his legs probably weighed 2-1/2tons, and rest of his body was 3-1/2 tons. Just guessing though, but I'd think that would be about right.
from T-man, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Don't forget the brachiosaurs and the styracosaurus. The Iguanadons normally got up to 25-30ft. And there is no way a carnotaur could look that big compared to Iguanadon. The Iguanadon actually got bigger.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Do movies open the same time in Canada as they do in the U.S.?
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


I just got through watching jurassic Saturday. I totally agree with you Brad! It's nice to have you back. Anyway where have you gone lately? We haven't heard from you in a while.
from an excited jp fan (Sean S.), age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 14, 2001


Did you know that people think the raptor families had feathers? I think they do but not that much. I think around the back of their necks and a little bit on their arm.
from Julian L., age 8, Toronto, Ontario, Canada; July 14, 2001


Erm, you can delete one of the Spinosaurus picture duplicates, the E-mail must be late
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001
Okay. JC


Sean ..., T.rex weighted 6 tons!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


I seriously doubt dinosaurs about 1.5 tons could do much jumping. You see, Tyrannosaurus leg bones are immensely strong, the femur could resist up to 6.5 giganewtons of force according to computer simulations. This is more than enough for the 0.9 meganewtons of force encountered while running at 20-30 miles per hour. But a T.rex jumping even say, 4 meters up and landing will cause a grad-slam force of about 11.5 giganewtons, more than enough to destroy the legs of a T.rex. I suppose T.rex could jump like in a short hop or a side leap where he displaced one leg to push himself off the ground and then used the other to do the same to propel himself. But that would be never in the range for the gigantic leaps you're talking about. The same goes for Allosaurus.

Well, weight does not have to do alot with strength. T.rex was a much heavier built animal than carcharadontosaurus or a giganotosaurus, and his bones were certianly more heavily built. The skeleton of Giganotosaurus, is technically slightly lighter than T.rex! The reason why Giganotosaurus is heavier is because he had a much deeper pubic bone, meaning he would have had more gut, meaing he would have had mroe bulk. But Tyrannosaurus bones were certainly much heavier built and would have supported more muscles than a Giganotosaurus (and very likely Carcharadontosaurus) skeleton, meaning that he actually had a superior power to weight ratio! It's a little like compairing a 60 kilo gorilla with a 60 kilo human. The gorilla is always stronger fo rthe same weight. As for Spinosaurus, he was even more lightly built than Giganotosaurus or Carcharadontosaurus.

On the matter of speed, I think what Lillian meant is "gracility", not in particular length. The length of the legs do play a part in the speed of the animal, and generally, longer is better. But the gracility, or limb-bone proportions play the biggest role. The limb bone proportions of Tyrannosaurus are extremely gracile, meaning they were very vell adapted for speed. Before the genus was well known, people have been reconstructing their limbs based on Allosaurus fragillis. But now we do know enough that this animal had limbs that were more gracile, or adapted for speed than any raptor or Allsaurid that ever lived. In fact, Tyrannosaur limb bones, measurement for measurement, are extremely alike those of the speedy ostrich dinosaurs! That in effect made Tyrannosaurus extremely fast and agile for its size. As we can tell, it's walking speed was around 12-17 miles per hour, and his running speed is certainly far above any a Giganotosaurus caould achive.

And yes, I do know Tyrannosaurus and Stegosaurus enver met! Read the commentary!
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Some food for thought:

Sue, whom currently holds the title of the largest Tyrannosaur, is 42 feet long and 12 feet high at the hip, and is estimated to have weighed 7.4 tons in life. Jack Horner's "C-Rex" (nicknamed so after his wife who first came across it) is said to have been 10% larger than Sue, based on measurements of the currently excavated bones.

So, how big is C-Rex?

Well, 10% of 42 feet is 4.2 feet. So 42 + 4.2 = 46.2 feet. Ten percent of 12 feet is 1.2. So 12 + 1.2 = 13.2 feet.

If Jack Horner's claims hold true, than C-Rex should be approximately 46.2 feet long and 13.2 feet high at the hip. It would weigh I suppose around 7.7+ tons if Sue's estimate of 7.4 tons is accurate. C-Rex then, would win back the title of "largest terrestrial carnivore" as Giganatosaurus is approximately 44 feet long and the unamed theropod from patagonia is estimated at 45-46. It would be close, but Tyrannosaurus rex would once again be the largest.

Not that it matters though, as size is an indicator of only one thing: how physically big something is. It is not a measurement of success.

Case in point, the lion and the tiger. Although being slightly larger, the tiger is usually the victim when the two species meet in the wild. Lions prove to be more aggressive and drove tigers from africa.

Another example could be the bobcat and the lynx. The lynx is almost twice the size of the bobcat, yet is found only in a range a fraction of the size of the bobcat's. Again, this is due to the bobcat's higher aggressive qualities.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


How can you know how big the Carnotaurus in _Dinosaur_ were, when there were no humans around for comparison? Iguanodonts ranged in length from about 6 to 11 metres, depending on species, so we can't use them.... I think I'll try to watch that movie again soon.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 14, 2001


How certain is it that Spinosauridae were mainly fish-eaters? Are the fish remains found with Baryonyx walkeri definately inside the dinosaur's stomach? Is it possible that they were merely near the baryonych when it was burried?

How certain is it that Baryonyx and Spinosaurus are closely related?

And if the torvosaurs/megalosaurs are in a clade (Spinosauroidea) with the Spinosauridae now, shouldn't we start restoring Megalosaurus after Baryonyx rather than Allosaurus, as we do with Spinosaurus now? How well-known is the Megalosauridae?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 14, 2001


Lots of new dinosaurs named in the past few weeks! Some weird names here.

Quilmesaurus curriei
Coria, 2001.
Theropoda

Venenosaurus dicrocei
Tidwell, Carpenter & Meyer, 2001.
Sauropodomorpha, Titanosauriformes

Planicoxa venenica
DiCroce & Carpenter, 2001.
Ornithopoda, ?Iguanodontidae

B. lufengensis
Dong, 2001.
Ankylosauria, Scelidosauridae

Ruehleia bedheimensis
Galton, 2001.
"Hugo Ruehle von Lilienstern of Bedheim"
Sauropodomorpha, Prosauropoda

Citipati osmolskae
Clark, James M., Norell, Mark A. & Barsbold, Rinchen, 2001.
"Halszka Osmolska's lord of the funeral pyre"
Theropoda, Oviraptoridae

Khaan mckennai
Clark, James M., Norell, Mark A. & Barsbold, Rinchen, 2001.
"Malcolm McKenna's lord"
Theropoda, Oviraptoridae

from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 14, 2001


All of the new TV ads for JP3 are awesome. It can't be a bad movie.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 14, 2001


Actually, a carnotaur got up to 25 ft., but that is still alot smaller.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


T-rex never fought the stegosaurus. He came alot later than the stegosaur. The allosaurus was the major enemy of the stegosaurus. Ever noticed how they make dinos bigger in movies. The velociraptor was usually only 3-6 feet long. The ones in the movie were up to 10 feets, and had broader snouts. And carnotaurs only got up to 20 feet, not to T-rex's size, like they do in "Dinosaur". And the new pteranodons have a wingspan of 40ft. Pteranodons only had a wingspan of 25 ft.
from T-man, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Lillian you keep bragging about bone crushing jaws and t-rex weighing 7 tons. BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?!!! If an allosaurus could jump on the back of a diplodocus(which i'm sure it could)than jumping on the back of t-rex will be no problem. ...
from Revision z, age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 14, 2001


The spino's legs are not that much shorter than the T-rex's.
from T-rex, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


A T-rex was not heavier than a carcharadontosaurus or a giganotosaurus. In fact the giganotosaurus is the heaviest meat eater right now. And the T-rex was only a ton or two heavier that spinosaurus. So a T-rex is not Schwarzeneggar compared to these dinos.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Question Lillian, how do u know all this. I mean where did you get this information. I'm pretty sure a bite from an 6-foot jaw would hurt a T-rex. They had to be pretty tough biters to kill their prey too.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


That's what it said on the website, that the T-Rex had skin kinda like an alligator's.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Yea I know Chandler, it's kinda confusing. They probably should have changed the name of one of them.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


They say could probaly ran up 20 miles per hour, but definately no 40mph. And a T-rex's legs are equipped for jumping on prey. Dinosaurs are not like bears, bears do not have the big bird legs like the carnosaurs did. So a T-rex could probaly jump on it's prey.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


I Don`t Know The Difference Between Ultrosauros And Ultrasaurus.
from Euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; July 14, 2001


Actually, the name Ultrasauros has been used for a very long time. And I think some of our more observant friends know this. Bill refered to the dinosaur as "Utrasauros" in one Dino Warz, and it was written way back in last year. Ultrasaurus happens to be another common misconception.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


How do you like my latest pictures? But I'm kinda otta inspiration for new ones...hmm, I think I'll do that frozen crest meat eater next. And prehaps a better, coloured, version of the T.rex vs Stego picture...
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Wow!Nice pictures Honkie Tong especialy the stegosaurus and t-rex also the spinosaurus wounded by t-rex that's what I call a dinosaur fighting pictures.Until if you see my pictures,I'll wait for a reply from you.
from Donovan c., age 11, ?, singapore, ?; July 14, 2001


Whoops I meant replies.
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Drs. Holtz and Brett-Surman have posted their relies to some questions. Go read them! Now!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Thats cute Lillian. You know that an allosaurus could jump on a diplodocus! Otherwise why would they have those huge claws?(talk about nonsense!) ...
from you'r worst nightmare!, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 14, 2001


Allosaurus was very light for a large theropod. (only 3 tons!) T-rex on the other hand weighed an enormous 7 tons. (big weight defference) Although t-rex was stronger it was probably too heavy to actually be faster. Since allosaurus was not nearly as heavy as t-rex it would probably move faster. And to top it off t-rex only had one weapon while allosaurus had many. Sure...bone crushing jaws are enough to ruin any dinosaurs day. (But that's still the only weapon it had!) And then there's the bigger allosauroids like giganotosaurus. (speaking of which it had longer reach than any of the tyrannosaurids) Rigby rex huh? Okay i have something for you! In early 2000, a team of Argentinian and Canadian paleontologists announced the discovery of a well-preserved,slightly younger relative of giganotosaurus in Argentina. The newly discovered animal closely resembled giganotosaurus but was larger-it may have been as long as 46 feet(14 m). Early press reports suggested that it was longer than the largest known tyrannosaurus. I also heard somebody say t-rex had more experience at fighting carnivores than allosaurus. (NICE TRY LEONARD!) Allosaurs did not attack each other. However finds from nail quarry suggests that they killed carnivores of other species and dragged them to their den! Allosauriods were also around way before tyrannosaurids and lived throughout the cretaceous period. Tyrannosaurids never survived long enough to be considered successful,thus they met an untimely extinction. So which is the baddest line of meat-eating dinosaurs? History says the allosauriods.
from the anti-rex, age 13, the armageddon is near!, ?, U.S.A; July 14, 2001


Actually, the recent debate over _T. rex_ skin has recently been ended--Currie finally revealed his finds.
The skin is not naked as originally rumored, but it is NOT similar to alligators'. It is rather with VERY small "scaly" tubercule bumps. _T. rex_ had much different skin than hadrosaurs.

from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


Oh, and _Ultrasaurus_ (with a U) is not the same as _Ultrasauros_! They are completely different dinosaurs! _Ultrasauros_ is probably the same as _Brachiosaurus altithorax_, perhaps a chimera. _Ultrasaurus_ (with a U) is from Korea, is a totally different dinosaur, and isn't really that big. _Ultrasauros_ (with an O) is probably a junior synonym of something else, and is VERY big.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


They changed it because, as Brad said, _UltrasaurUs_ was already taken by a dinosaur from Korea. So, they just made it _UltrasaurOs_.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


"You can look at how large the brain case is, which may tell you how large the brain was, but this is not a reliable indicator of intelligence. Intelligence depends on how large the animal is relative to brain size."

Un, this is not really true. A hagfish has a better brain weight to body weight ratio than humans, does that mean it's more intelligent than us? I don't think so. Besides, animals like elephants and orcas are clearly extremely smart, but they have very high brain weight to body weight ratios, does this mean they were dumb. To a certain extent, the size of animal is relative to brain size plays a role in determining the agility of the animal (more neuron per muscle units), but never intelligence. It's about as ridiculus as calling a fat person dumber than a thinner and lighter one just beacause the lighter person had a better body to brain weight ratio.

Actually, we should look at the structure of the brain to determine intelligence. Dinosaurus like the raptors and Tyrannosaurus do have significantly more complex brains than other dinosaurs and thuse would have been more intelligent in a sense. It's likely that Tyrannosaurus could have equaled, or exceed the raptors in intelligence. Size here does not matter.

"A spinosaur only got up to 15meters. And I'm not sure a T-rex could take on a carchardontosaurus, giganotosaurus, and a spinosaurus. Sure it had more crushing power with it's teeth, but the others did have longer snouts to bite with, and bigger arms. And since the spinosaurus was lighter, it probaly moved faster."'

Well T-man, actually Giganotosaurus had rather small arms that were carnotaurus type, rather odd but they could not even flex and wouild have been virtually useless. I'm unclear why people keep stating arms as an advantage (prehaps because we're humans?). But I doubt so. Animals like Tyrannosaurus got so good at killing that they had a good reason to drop the arms. Besides, what happens if Carchardontosaurus or Spinosaurus managed to grapple the stronger than them Tyrannosaurus? It's a very bad thing if you ask me. And I doubt a 2 to 3 foot advantage over Tyrannosaurus' skull is gonna play too much of a part in which 40-foot animal will bite first. Morever, typical of the Allosauridae, Carchardontosaurus and Giganotosaurus had realtively weak bites for their size and employed a method known as hatchet-slam biting to make up for it. This is a precedure when they slam their upper jaws onto the target like a hatchet to bite down hard. This requires them to get up close and personal too, not snip at Tyrannosaurus from a long distance. (I doubt a 2 to 3 foot advantage in jaw length is gonna stop Tyrannosaurus.) And close in is where Tyrannosaurus excells, he was certainly more heavily built and muscled than any of the three dinosaurs, and he was realtively well protected. Not to mention he is extremely tough, capable of resisting bone crushing bites from other Tyrannosaurus, surviving broken necks, broken legs, puncture wounds to the brain and so on and so forth. A single bite from Carchardontosaurus or Giganotosaurus is not going to slow him down much (much less Spinosaurus). But if he bites, there will be severe conquences for the dinosaur involved. Tyrannosaurus can bite up to 6 tons of force, probably more, and that force is enough to split and penetrate Triceratops hip bones. Needless to say. Carchardontosaurus, Giganotosaurus or Spinosaurus didn't have bones anywhere near that heavy and would have suffered even more so from one bite. While I envision a huge gash as the wound Carchardontosaurus, Giganotosaurus or Spinosaurus would have made, It's obvious a Tyrannosaurus could cause a 4-foot long, 3-foot wide and a 2 foot deep crater, with broken ribs or veterbre mixed into it. Instinct tells me that the lighter built (and hence weaker) dinosaurs would not take this too well. T.rex didn't just have a marginal advantage in biting than the other dinosaurs, it's like looking at the difference between a small pistol and a automatic shotgun.

"And since the spinosaurus was lighter, it probaly moved faster."

Once again, this is no really true. Tyrannosaurus had legs that were far more gracile than any carnosaur for that matter, let alone Spinosaurus. And Spinosaurus had extremely ungracile and short legs. Tyrannosaurus is expected to cover more distance per unit time with his more gracile, longer and more powerful legs. In fact, flat out he was certainly faster than the raptors. Tyrannosaurus certainly could not run at 50 miles per hour, but as Holtz says, he would have been much faster than most dinosaurs lighter than him as he was adapted for speed. Spinosaurus was not. And Tyrannosaurus didn't have the burdern of a hump/ridge. It's highly likely with his shorter but heavier head and more powerfully muscled body, it was much more agile than any of the three animals above. Thank you.
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


I doubt any animal over 1.5 tons could jump very well, if they could jump at all. Just look at bears, the largest terrestrial mamallian carnivore. They can leap horizontally pretty well, but have you ever seen a bear jump vertically? What more, onto the back of a sprinting moose?
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


Allosaurus did not jump on the back of Diplodocus! It's a misconception cooked up by too many poor dinosaur movies. And T.rex weighted 6 tons. Really Sean, you should keedp your arguments based in reality, nobody wants to read that nonsense.
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


This is driving me nuts. It's T.rex, not T-rex.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


If an allosaurus could jump on the back of a diplodocus i'm pretty sure it could jump on the back of a t-rex. Note: allosaurus weighed 3 tons while t-rex weighed 7 tons.
from Sean.S the critic (IT STINKS!), age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 13, 2001


Oh well, why the heck to an "o" in Ultrasauros anyway. It actually used to have "u", I don't know when they changed it.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


Actually some scientists think an Ultrasaurus may be brachiosaurus bones mixed with supersaurus bones. And Ultrasauruses were not found in South Korea, at least not first ones. The ultrasaurus was first found in western Colorado.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


All I know about the T-rex's intelligence that it was smarter than the giganotosaurus and the carcharadontosaurus. But not as smart as troodons or raptors.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


They do know that the T-rex had scales, they had found some preserved skin in canada. It's skin was similar to that of an alligator's. And the same with the edmontosaurus.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


A spinosaur only got up to 15meters. And I'm not sure a T-rex could take on a carchardontosaurus, giganotosaurus, and a spinosaurus. Sure it had more crushing power with it's teeth, but the others did have longer snouts to bite with, and bigger arms. And since the spinosaurus was lighter, it probaly moved faster.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


Maybe I was wrong about the pteranadon. I just found out it had hollow bones(1mm thick). And Katie, a pteranodon are the flying reptiles with the huge crest on their heads.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


Josie M, we don't have evidece on what colors dinosaurs were but we can figure it out. T- Rex would't be neon red, or else his prey would notice him before he got a chance to sneak up on it.
from Zach, age 10, ?, MN, U.S; July 13, 2001


"Can Anyone Tell Me How Smart Was T-Rex?"

You can look at how large the brain case is, which may tell you how large the brain was, but this is not a reliable indicator of intelligence. Intelligence depends on how large the animal is relative to brain size.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; July 13, 2001


"Dinosaurs are always depicted in certain colours-what evidence do you have to prove the colours you show them in are correct?"

There really is no evidence, is there? Were they even colored in the first place?
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; July 13, 2001


According to Dr. Tom Holtz, expert on Tyrannosaurids, (not Horner, he knows next to nuts about Tyrannosaurids and meat eaters in general, despite having split much ink over it) T.rex was quite a brainy dinosaur.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


"Hey, they are similar to birds, so I would expect they be kinda like birds."

Actually, they are very different from birds. It's kinda like looking at the difference between a hang-glider and a jet fighter, or a cockroach and a dragonfly. Want close relations to birds? Look at the dinosaurs instead. If there was a seven meter bird that attacked humans, I would be convinced it could be capable of killing humans, but not a seven meter pterosaur. They're too different and we do know enough to know that they are pound for pound, much less strong, tough and smart than birds. They only thing they seem to share in common is that they can both fly, but I don't think its a good compairism to say they would be like birds at all. They're playing a whole different ballgame in a whole different bodyplan, a bodyplan that can be bashed up, chocked and killed by the normal, determined human.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


The final stats for the Spinosaurus in JP3 are finally out:

17 meters.

The T.rex in JP3 is at 12 meters.

Given the inaccuracies in the JP3 Spinosaurus, a 17 meter Spinosaurus is certainly way too large. An the camment released by the movie maker said "The newly rediscovered Spinosaurus was 17 meters long and far fiercier than T.rex"

Newly rediscovered? Is there another fossil? Or is that just pure "rediscovery" by Horner's speculation. Anyway, the JP3 T.rex is potrayed mainly as Horner would see it, a poor-eyesight, realtively stupid scavenger, quite a difference from the other two movies. Well, that's really bad. People who don't accept that the Spinosaurus was grossly misrespented probably believe Lara Croft is a real person.

Sound familiar?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


I just got to ask the question. Honkie Tong i saw you'r latest picture and i wondered if you have any other favorite carnivores besides t-rex. Do you?
from Sean.S, age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 13, 2001


"You can't tell how much muscle they had from there bones."

Sure you can, muscles need bones to be attatched to. And from grooves in the bones we can tell where or how much muscle was attached (pathlogy 101). In animals like Tyrannosaurus, we find lots of big, heavy bones in muscle intensive areas that allowed us to work out that we could NOT beat them in an arm wrestling competition, (In fact, they had enough strength in those little arms to toss us. In the generic pterosaur, the grooves for muscle attachments are small and the hollow structure of the bones made them light and fragile to torsional forces (not the torque experienced during flight). From all that evidence, we can be very sure these animals were not strong, but in fact, very weak. Pathlogists have been finding out how muscled a body is just by looking at the bones with great accuracy for a very long time, I don't see how pterosaurs will be an exception. No, the JP3 potrayal stands as nonsense.

"IF AN ALLOSAURUS JUMPED ON THE BACK OF A T-REX ALLOSAURUS WOULD BE THE LAST DINOSAUR HE EVER SAW!"

Let's see, the back of T.rex is about 20 feet up and I seriously doubt a 3.5-ton Allosaurus could jump that high. In fact, 3.5-tons of animal crashing down from 20 feet will be really deterimental to the Allosaurus while hardly doing any damage to T.rex at all (T.rex will most probaly be pushed aside when Allosaurus jumps on him) It's like trying to imagine a 3.5 ton elephant jumping up 20 feet, it ain't gonna happen!

By the way, good points Lillian!
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 13, 2001


Ahem,I don't mean to complain J.C. but those letters after the "c."is my last initial I just spelled it in the opposite instead of putting "c."
from Donovan c., age 11, ?, singapore, ?; July 13, 2001


Ahem,I don't mean to complain J.C. but those letters after the "c."is my last initial I just spelled it in the opposite instead of putting "c."
from Donovan c., age 11, ?, singapore, ?; July 13, 2001


_Pteranodon_ is a large pterosaur from the US. It is basically the "archetypal" pterosaur, as when you see illustrations of generalized pterosaurs they are usually modeled after _Pteranodon_ (with the long crest on the back of the head).
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 12, 2001


Dinosaurs are always depicted in certain colours-what evidence do you have to prove the colours you show them in are correct?
from Josie M, age 14, North Shore City, ?, New Zealand; July 12, 2001


IF AN ALLOSAURUS JUMPED ON THE BACK OF A T-REX ALLOSAURUS WOULD BE THE LAST DINOSAUR HE EVER SAW!
from Revision Z(Sean S.), age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; July 12, 2001


Could someone PLEASE tell me what a Pteranodon is?
from Katie V., age 14, Tabernacle, NJ, U.S.A.; July 12, 2001


Whoa, I saw that JP3 was coming out this Wens. I think I'm a little behind the times though! :)
from Katie V., age 14, Tabernacle, NJ, U.S.A.; July 12, 2001


I thought Allosaurus was taller than T-Rex?
from Katie V., age 14, Tabernacle, NJ, U.S.A.; July 12, 2001


TREX FANS WHY BOTHR VOTING UV ALL REDEE WON
from A FAN, age ', ?, ,, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$()((((((((((; July 12, 2001


"You can't tell how much muscle they had from there bones."

If that was true, why are we all saying Tyranosaur was strong enough to be a predator and take on Carcharodontosuarus, Giganotosaurus, and Spinosaur?
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; July 12, 2001


I don't think _Seismosaurus_ is the same as _Diplodocus_ either...the tail is very different (with that bend in it).
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 12, 2001


Hey, they are similar to birds, so I would expect
they be kinda like birds.

from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 12, 2001


Honkie, I just doubt they were as weak you guys say they are. And where did that their bones are really weak.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 12, 2001


You can't tell how much muscle they had from there bones.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 12, 2001


Can Anyone Tell Me How Smart Was T-Rex?(Not You Ya T-Rex Fans.I Want Some Real Awansers.)
from euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; July 12, 2001


"No Jason, some people think the Ultrasaurus may be a big brachiosaurus. It's the seismosaurus that they think may be a big diplodocus."

Ultrasaurus is a sauropod from South Korea. It is not the famous 'ultrasaur' found by Jim Jensen in Colorado. There is little information availible on Ultrasaurus, since it hasn't been properly described. The "Ultrasaurus" you wrote about is actually Ultrasauros. The holotype of Ultrasauros mackintoshi is dorsal vertebra, which apparently belongs to the diplodocid Supersaurus. Ultrasaurus is now considered a junior synonym of Supersaurus. A scapula-coracoid (shoulder) referred to Ultrasauros is brachiosaurid, and probably belongs to Brachiosaurus. Some people do call Seismosaurus a big Diplodocus, but I don't.

(1) See "Whatever happenend to Ultrasauros?" Curtice 1996
http://www.dinosauria.com/jdp/misc/ultra.htm

from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 12, 2001


"How the heck can you know all that. In fact, how scientists be sure how much the pterosaur. It's an animal that's been extinct for 60 million years. It's bones could have weakend over the years. Even would scientists don't know for sure."

That's actually an easy question. The pterosaur fossils are not bones, they're simply imprints left after the bone dissolved. And they are very good imprints. The fact that pterosaur fossils are only preserved in conditions extremely good for fossil making like mud and the fact that all of the bones are usually squished up while fossils around of other animals are relatively intact indicate they were extremely fragile. (Bird fossils are certianly much stronger)

Also, scientists have taken very well preserved pterosaur fossils and studied them under a microscope and have discovered that the bones are virtually paper thin with alot of air sacs to keep the weight down in such a large animal. These air sacs are very much bigger and the bones are very much thinner than what you'll in birds. That indicates they were very much lighter (for size) and much more fragile too. And their bodies lack any heavy bones to anchor huge muscles to make them strong like humans. If they have too much muscle pulling on such a light bone, it'll simply snap. Very well preserved pterosaur fossils that show us the actual outline of the animal also show enough detail to tell us they have very little flesh on their bodies.
from Lillian Tay, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 12, 2001


Pteranodon is no match for a human being! Human beings are the deadilest, superefficent predators ever to walk the earth! Never before have a single species so profoundly affected the earth in such a short period of time! No animal on earth is a match for the human being (with the exception of roaches, but they don't beat us either). Even without modern technology, humans are extremely strong and heavily built for a 60 kilo, 1.7 meter tall animals. In fact, in the animal kingdom we are quite strong and tough for our size! Not to mention we have opposible thumbs and fully freeded hands we can use to pick things up and use as weapons. Without that, humans are known to be capable of breaking wooden boards with out hands and feet. I'm quite sure a blow like that will be quite deadly to Pteranodon anatomy. Human begins have amazing acceleration superior to racing horses that makes them extremely hard and agile targets to hit. Humans are also capable of rolling, ducking, jumping aside, cartwheeling and summerswualting to make themselves a very hard target. Pteranodon is gonna die if he takes us on!
from Lillian Tay, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 12, 2001


Where can I find, good, solid reliable Dinosaur information!?!?!?!
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 12, 2001


"And how would you how much muscle they had in their body."

Look at the skeletons. They were obviously thin and weak. They were not built for flapping. Their daily activities didn't require a lot of strength. So, I would say they had relatively little muscle in their body.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; July 11, 2001


Once again, you are mixing birds up with Pteranodon. Birds are certainly far more stoutly built and well muscled than Pteranodon. (I suspect this is the reason why they had all but taken over from the larger flying lizards by the KT). Compairing the fragility of a Pteranodon to a gull is like compairing a hang-glider to a prop aircraft. And this fishes they caught were not monsters either (and certianly not in the weight range for human beings!) Unless you are talking about human babies, humans are gonna be much stronger as they weight the same (with a possibility of a slight weight advantage) and have far more muscle for body mass. Pteranodon wasn't built for powered flight, much more like a hang glider that could flap occasionaly to keep aloft. If it tried to take off with a human, it'll crash! These things are fragile man, fragile and clumsly. There's no way they can beat us with all our superior aglilty, toughness, strength and intelligence! I'll be a massacare! Those things are cerainly not strong for their size, and they're not anywhere as strong as birds!
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


Allasuraus? Is he refering to Allosaurus or some sauropod? I still don't know why people insist on calling Nanotyrannus a juvinile T.rex. Since the discovery of Tinker, we know that young Tyrannosaurus do have adult teeth, unlike Nanotyrannus, who had different teeth. Now the problem arises when Nanotyrannus teeth are foudn around Tinker. This could mean that Nanotyrannus was feeding on Tinker or that Nanotyrannus was Tinker and he had shed Nano teeth to grow adult ones. Now, the idea for the latter being that this was his nest nest and that any teeth he shed would have accumulated in that area. But I find this strange, for example, there had been no evidence of a nest at all, crushed eggshells, nesting material, bones from food brought to Tinker. In fact, all we have are Nano teeth, and that's really strange if you are going to say that this is a nest based just on that. Also, Tinker was 8 meters long and was well developed, though still a little young. I hardly think he would have stayed in the nest when he was that big. He would have been mobile and moved around quite a bit with the other animals of his social group. It is quite unlikely he stayed in his nest (and I see no reason to return to it) when he was of that size. I've no idea, unless we find more evidence of a nest, Nanotyrannus will remain a seperate animal. Heck, I wonder why they insist on calling it a T.rex, it could be the young of another Tyrannosaurid!
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


"It's bones could have weakend over the years."

Actually, unless incredible pressure was put on the bones, if they were fossilized, they wouldn't weaken.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; July 11, 2001


The allosaurus no way the biggest right now. It is pretty long but it's alot lighter that the T-rex
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


And how would you how much muscle they had in their body.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


How the heck can you know all that. In fact, how scientists be sure how much the pterosaur. It's an animal that's been extinct for 60 million years. It's bones could have weakend over the years. Even would scientists don't know for sure.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


Compared with how birds are strong for their size, I doubt the ptranadon was a weak as you say it is. Plus, there was alot of big fish back then, and you have to be pretty strong to carry big fish. It's like when they T-rex was just a scavenger. But an animal with big teeth and short-distance, could not have just been a scavenger. And a 45-50 spino with a 6 ft. sail, the spino is not going to have a sail like the dimetradon.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


Unless the humans disturb their nest, like they do in the movie.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


No Jason, some people think the Ultrasaurus may be a big brachiosaurus. It's the seismosaurus that they think may be a big diplodocus.
from T-man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


"Ultrasaurus, I bet some people misunderstood that for a giant Diplodocus."

Was the Ultrasaurus' hip fused together? If that was the case, maybe it was a giant Diplodocus, but I think not. Could someone tell me the length of Ultrasaur to be sure?
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; July 11, 2001


How fast could a Uthahraptor run? I think somewhere around 20+ mph.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; July 11, 2001


Honkie, where do you get your information from? I've checked Kinokuniya for Dinosaur books but most are encyclopedia which are way out of my budget, or pop science. The only good dinosaur website I've found so far is the Dinosauricon. Can someone help me get a good, reliable source of information on Dinosaurs?
from DW, age 15, Singapore!, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


We've some really horrible pictures coming up in the pics section. I can't make anything out of the last one at all. It's looks bad...plain bad...
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


T-man, you should listen, Honkie does have a point. Despite being so large, Pteranodon had very little muscles on its body, and most of it was devoted to flight. The I don't buy the raptor compairism as it is rather irrevalant as their design is greatly different and raptors certainly have far, far more muscle than Pteranodon, pound for pound. I don't think compairing Pteranodon to a six foot gull really works, for gulls are capable of sustained powered flight and they are pound for pound, far more powerful and resistant to damage than Pteranodon. In fact, most of Pteranodon weight came from its sheer bulk and not from its muscle. In human certainly have a vastly superior power-to-weight ration over Pteranodon. And IK don't see any adaptations for moving the long, but stiff neck with the heavy head forward with much force. In fact, its more likely Pteranodon's head would be clumsly and a liability in a fight when a grat weapon. I also seriously doubt the notion they can lift a small man, in fact, given they were NOT designed for extensive powered flight like modern raptors (who expend alot of energy simply carrying their prey away), I doubt the Pteranodon would be a good lifter of anything but fish and pieces of dead meat. The notion of a large animal that was overly fragile for its size with a large clumsly head and a body built mainly for gliding with fragile membrames and not much more being a deadly preator just dosen't sell. I doubt JP3's idea of one will sell to paleontologists too. Granted they could cause injuries if they decided to attack a human, but not as bad as you would put it man. In fact, I think the question is, what will the stronger human do to it!

Humans can most likely bite harder and cause more damage than a Pteranodon in a bite. Humans certainly have bodies and bones that are stouter and more resistant to damage than Pteranodon. In fact, compaired to Pteranodon, we are probably built like tanks!
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 11, 2001


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