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Dino Talk: A Dinosaur Forum

June 27-30 2001



Hey Leonard-where did you get those measurements on the tyrannosaur specimens? Just wondering for my own personal reference..
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 30, 2001


I have changed my name to Jason, Dragonair was my Internet name. To avoid confusion, I will continue to submit my stories under Dragonair. Now on to other things. I am new here and have been investigating this seemingly simmering hatred between Sean.S and Honkie Tong. I for one believe Sean has good reason to be talk like he did. He felt shot down during the debate and for some reason turned to insults to console himself, maybe seeking revenge. Now everyone is trying to "downsize" him even further because he did so. If that's possible from the, however subtle, anti-Sean messages I've seen. And I quote, "Honkie Tong is obviously too kind and mature to respond to Sean's insults, so younger me is gonna do that:"

"Heck, you could have 100 Seans (and we only have one) charging him but he could take them all down easily with his miliary training. So Honkie wins by a great margin and destroys an annoying threat to humanity."

Ouch.

Plus everyone is ganging up on him, so he might feel alone and discomforted. If he is willing to cooperate let him come back. Stop pecking on the weakest chicken. Brad, you have a habit of patronizing!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 30, 2001


Jezz... I've missed alot!!

I think dinos were warm-blooded because all the dinos with long necks (I don't know how many different species there were) would need a 4-chambered heart (found in only warm-blooded animals and us people)to pump blood up though the neck to the head and back.
from Katie V., age 14, Tabernacle, NJ, U.S.A.; June 30, 2001


Couldn't T-rex a.k.a T.rex a.k.a T.Rex have been a scavenger AND a carnivore? Look at his jaws. His skull was heavy and thick and he had jaws that could snap the neck of the biggest herbivores around!
from Dragonair, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; June 30, 2001


"If dinosaurs were cold-blooded, they would need to eat less. Here are the calculated food requirements of some cold-blooded dinosaurs:
Triceratops- similar to an adult horse
Hadrosauridae- similar to a small deer
Hyspilophodontidae & Protoceratopsidae- similar to rabbits
Velociraptor & Tro^don- ate one rat-sized mammal per week
Tyrannosaurus- ate over 12 pounds of meat per day, almost 4,500 pounds per year."

If dinosaurs were cold-blooded, they would certainly need to eat less.But does this mean they were cold-blooded? No.

"You said they would have a problem with overheating, so keeping heat away from mass is a solution."

You misinterpreted my message. I meant to say they would have problems with overheating if they were cold-blooded period. How do you keep heat away from mass?

"Both Ornithischia and Therizinosauridae evolved somewhat bird-like hips to allow them to be bipedal herbivores- it moved their guts further back between their legs, and allowed them to balance. It is not evidence supporting that these groups are related to birds, although the segnosaurs do seem to be."

The groups Ornithischia and Segnosaurs evolved "bird-like hips" to allow more room in their abdomens for the fermentation of plant food. How is this not evidence? Couldn't it be possible that birds got this feature from the dinosaurs that might have evolved into them? I have never heard of Therinzosauridae.

"I'm not saying they weren't warm-blooded."

I didn't say you said they weren't warm-blooded, Brad.

(Research possible from "Dinosaurs of the East Coast" by David Weishampel and Luther Young.)
from Dragonair, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; June 30, 2001


As I've said before, the term "warm-blooded" has no clear-cut definition or separation from gigantothermy, really. The larger the animal, automatically the more "cold-blooded" it is (for example, elephants are bigger than mice, therefore having a slower metabolism and less strains on their heart and other organs, resulting in a longer lifespan [ever notice how larger animals live longer typically?]). So, gigantic sauropods really COULDN'T have had a very active "warm-blooded" metabolism just because they were so big and would probably overheat (which is probably why they never evolved larger mouths).
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 30, 2001


$75 in Canada is roughly equivalent to $50 in the United States. How much did the original JP T. rex cost? The new Spinosaurus, while cool, doesn't seem to have a lot of extra features (and the Dino Damage is a drawback).
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 30, 2001


"I don't see how dinosaurs COULDN'T be warm-blooded. These animals HAD to have been warm-blooded. How could they be so active to hunt and keep those huge bodies supplied with energy? With bodies as big as some of them had, they would always need a constant supply of food."

If dinosaurs were cold-blooded, they would need to eat less. Here are the calculated food requirements of some cold-blooded dinosaurs:
Triceratops- similar to an adult horse
Hadrosauridae- similar to a small deer
Hyspilophodontidae & Protoceratopsidae- similar to rabbits
Velociraptor & Tro^don- ate one rat-sized mammal per week
Tyrannosaurus- ate over 12 pounds of meat per day, almost 4,500 pounds per year.
(Data from "The Thermodynamics of Dinosaurs", Barrick 2000, in Paul 2000)

"Which means they had to keep moving because if they stayed in one spot, well, the damage to the local flora would have been disastrous enough! So they had to keep moving. This means they can't rely on the sun to keep moving. And if they WERE cold-blooded they would have to
keep to the forest in order to keep from going into heat exhuastion. This would seriously slow them down in their hunt for food. They would probably starve to death. And the larger dinosaurs kept most of their heat anyway from their own body mass!"

You said they would have a problem with overheating, so keeping heat away from mass is a solution.

"The small dinosaurs, well, if you look at birds, they are warm-blooded, and since dinosaurs are more related to birds than reptiles(Evidence shown in the shape of hip bones in the group of Ornithischians and Segnosaurs)"

Both Ornithischia and Therizinosauridae evolved somewhat bird-like hips to allow them to be bipedal herbivores- it moved their guts further back between their legs, and allowed them to balance. It is not evidence supporting that these groups are related to birds, although the segnosaurs do seem to be.

"who's to say that small dinosaurs were not warm-blooded? (I know its weird I'm lumping all my messages together, I'll try to stop)"

I'm not saying they weren't warm-blooded. And I'll try to stop doing this.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 30, 2001


I remember reading in one of those bad dinosaur genera dictionaries that the tiny Bagaceratops weighed a ton.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 30, 2001


Hardosaurus' latest post is disturbing.
from Colin G., age 14, Cameron Highlands, ?, Malaysia; June 29, 2001


Whoops. Sorry.
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


A Report on Carnivore sizes

Hmm...I just obtained the latest measurements from the new T.rex finds by Horner, the largest of the Horner rexes are 48.3 feet long and at about 6.9 tons. Sadly, we still have no news on the Rigsby Tyrannosaurus but the last estimates have been scaled down (as they have been in all virtually all dinosaur discoveries) to about 50-52 feet from the 55 foot estimate and at abot 7.2 tons. You can't get too much bigger and expect to chase down hardosaurs. And no, Rigsby's rex did not a seven foot skull! Tyrannosaurus skulls are short and stout and at seven feet, it would belong to a really huge animal (60+ feet). A more accucrate estimate for the skull would be 5.7 feet, extremely formidible for a predatory dinosaur, given the basic Tyrannosaurus skull design.

Oddly enough though, I suspect that Giganotosaurus' weight estimates could have been done using the older methods, which inflated dinosaur weights quite a bit. That's because the first figure released by the South Americans, 9 tons, seemed suspiciously inflated for a 44 (used to be 5O before measurements) footer. This was later scaled down to 8 tons, but I expect a more realistic figure for Giganotosaurs to be about 6 to 7 tons. Unless he was significantly, proportionally bulkier than the Tyrannosaurids, which he was not, a slight two feet longer than Sue will not amount to a two-ton difference! Yikes!

Of course, Big Al was only 7 and a half meters long, not at the 12 meter Sean put it at...how much about Allosaurus does he really know anyway? Not alot I guess.
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


I don't see how dinosaurs COULDN'T be warm-blooded. These animals HAD to have been warm-blooded. How could they be so active to hunt and keep those huge bodies supplied with energy? With bodies as big as some of them had, they would always need a constant supply of food. Which means they had to keep moving because if they stayed in one spot, well, the damage to the local flora would have been disastrous enough! So they had to keep moving. This means they can't rely on the sun to keep moving. And if they WERE cold-blooded they would have to keep to the forest in order to keep from going into heat exhuastion. This would seriously slow them down in their hunt for food. They would probably starve to death. And the larger dinosaurs kept most of their heat anyway from their own body mass! The small dinosaurs, well, if you look at birds, they are warm-blooded, and since dinosaurs are more related to birds than reptiles(Evidence shown in the shape of hip bones in the group of Ornithischians and Segnosaurs)who's to say that small dinosaurs were not warm-blooded? (I know its weird I'm lumping all my messages together, I'll try to stop)
from Dragonair, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; June 29, 2001


This is getting too far is there anything better than quarrelling over here!?
from Donovan c., age 11, ?, singapore, ?; June 29, 2001


Woops, I got the names mixed up. I was refering to Albertosaurus.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


Hey ya man! I saw those toys too, but they only cost $50 here! The problem is, I've only seen Spinosaurus and Velociraptor!
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


It is now obvious that Sean has been insulting people somewhat. But weren't those messages supposed to be blocked in the first place? Maybe he turned sour because of a certain accusation made by a certain someone that Sean didn't want to talk about dinosaurs from a little debate with Sean and Honkie Tong that turned into this.
from Dragonair, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; June 29, 2001


Okay...Um... Why are we discussing how to decimate the local dinoes with various large caliber weapons?Oh well. Show of hands please. How might a group of oh, 7 humans armed with M-16s stand up to an attack by a group of around 20 Utahraptors? And WHY are we bashing Sean? I have searched halfway down this page and found no messages from Sean containing personal insults to other members of DINO Talk. How would YOU like it if everyone started saying, "Block this guy, he just wants to insult people" all because of some debate that happened between you and some other guy that happened what, about two months ago? Oh wait. I just saw a rude message from Sean. Sorry. But really, everyone CALM DOWN PLEASE!!!!!!!(Emphasis on CALM)!!!!!!
from Dragonair, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA! USA! USA!; June 29, 2001


"I like Brad's method of qouting and commenting, kinda has a stupid feel to whoever's post is being dissected (just kidding!)"

Thanks!

"Erm... I think we are refering to Allosaurus fragilis there, a common size for them would be 26 to 30 feet. Allosaurus maximus reached 33 feet, but I assume you are not refering to that animal here (you told me to keep Tyrannosaurus lancieus (Albertosaurus) out of this, so A.max will have to be excluded too)."

Regarding A. max (_Saurophaganx maximus_), it was a bit bigger than you indicate. This species had a femur length of 1.2 metres, and an estimated total length of 12.5 metres (42 feet).

Do you mean _Tyrannosaurus lancensis_ or _Tyrannosaurus lancinator_? Tyrannosaurus lancenis, (=_Nanotyrannus lancensis_) has been assigned to Albertosaurus before, also as _Albertosaurus megagracilis_. It isn't Albertosaurus, though. As T./A./N. lancensis is a small tyrannosaur (270- 460 kilograms), I don't know why it was brought into this discussion. T. lancinator, originally _Gorgosaurus lancinator_, is from Mongolia. It is a juvenile of T. bataar.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 29, 2001


Wasn't it Honie Tong who wanted bigger dinosaur toys? I have seen the animatronic Spinosaurus, and he's $75 here!
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 29, 2001


Hey, Brad, you wanted big dinosaur toys, JP3's got them. You have got to check out the Animatronic Spinosaurus! It's like the first JP T-Rex!
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


"Obviously, Sean has moved his focus from dinosaurs to insulting other people. So this dinosaur battle can more be said to be mroe of a battle between two people: Sean and Honkie."

Wow, we are getting somewhere are we? Dinofan battles now?
from Leonard, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


Dear Sirs:

For you to even suggest that the Tyrannosaurus rex osborn could face a serious challenge in the Allosaurus--much less risk defeat--shows a total lack of respect for my published work, my many speeches, and my admiration which instructed me to kill all of the other members of my herd for the sake of securing a Tyrannpsaurus rex osborn warrior for use as an unstoppable biological weapon.

As a highly sophisticated super-intelligent hardosaur brought back in the distant future and living in the distant past, I have extensive files relating to every aspect of Earth biology and the potential threat posed by all its various organisms; and since the whole "Big Al" escapade took place in what is my past, I have long studied the combat prowess of these Allosaurus.

It was with that in mind that I made my final assessment on the Tyrannosaurus rex osborn (or as you so crassly call them, the "T.rex"). To repeat, they are "a perfect organism". Since they are perfect, it follows that the Allosaurus are inferior. I much regret that you chose to ignore all my hard work.

Sincerely,
Hardosaurus's disembodied head

from Hardosaurus's disembodied head, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


And if you intend to hunt dinosaurs with firearms...go twenty mm! twenty mm!
from Eventisaurus, age -----, Salt Lake City, -----, -----; June 29, 2001


"This is a new theory about his small arms. He could have used his small arms and fingers to show obscene signs to other dinosaurs while roaring the equvalient of "I'm the biggest, meanest dinosaur in the whole of @#$%^%&*ing Laurasia!!! One more wisecrack about my small arms and I'll rip your $%@* head off!!!"

This is a plasuable theory, but I try not to think of a Tyrannosaur showning vulgar signs with all his four fingers and roaring, all without hesitation and fear. It must have been quite a sight. And might I propose, I'll bet he reared up to make himself more intimidating too. No wonder herbivores scramed whenever they saw them instead of making remarks about his arms. You will have alot of respect for small-armed animals if they constantly chase you down and eat you.
from Eventisaurus, age -----, Salt Lake City, -----, -----; June 29, 2001


Actually, I think Tyrannosaurus rex was so good he could probably take on 6 Giganotosaurus! (Of course I know they never saw each other, but for the sake an argument) No not directly you fool, but if he wanted, he could have ambushed them, bit one or two Giganotosaurus, and then run with his superior speed and agility away before they have a chance to form a determined counterassualt. Given the fact that Tyrannosaurus' mouths were unusually septic for the average dinosaur, the Giganotosaurus would die of septicaemia (is that the spelling) in 72 hours up to 70 percent of the time. And those who do survive (The 30 percent) would be extremely weak from all the infectiosn raging their bodies to defend themselves for up to two weeks. Tyrannosaurus could repeat this procedure and bag himself 6 Giganotosaurus in about two weeks. Of course, I'm not sure if he had the intelligence to know this, but given he did specialize in having a septic bite, he might have the instincts to do so to. But finding out if Tyrannosaurus knew how to utilize his meat-mincing, bone crushing, biological weapon of death is irrevelant, as making those two species fight is an assumption made against thier instincts as well. So my point has to prevail!

But why do I bother, we have already won the debate.
from Eventisaurus, age -----, Salt Lake City, -----, -----; June 29, 2001


Guns and dinosaurs sounds fun but sadly guns are about 64, 998 031 years too late to use on dinosuars. But I still think bigger calibers are better for larger targets. They have more mass and more material 'thump', something smaller calibers can never make up for. Besides, if I want a dinosaur dead, my intention would be cause massive internal tramua on the animal instead of attempting to punch a small hole 5mm wide through it.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


I like Brad's method of qouting and commenting, kinda has a stupid feel to whoever's post is being dissected (just kidding!)

"YEAH WHAT ABOUT T-REX??!!!!! I don't care! The debate is already over! "

Hmm... is it over because somebody is bailing?

"I think we all know that allosaurids were not whimps!"

Alot of people seem to think that Allosaurids are whimps (I'm not one of them) But sadly Sean seems too distracted by insulting me to bother to rebutt this properly.

"Allosaurus: 39feet(12 m) tyannosaurus:40 feet (12 m)"

Erm... I think we are refering to Allosaurus fragilis there, a common size for them would be 26 to 30 feet. Allosaurus maximus reached 33 feet, but I assume you are not refering to that animal here (you told me to keep Tyrannosaurus lancieus (Albertosaurus) out of this, so A.max will have to be excluded too). Even so, Tyrannosaurids are more stoutly built and had shorter tails. A true measure of size would be weight, and Tyrannosaurus was 1.5 good tons heavier...the robustus morph could be a good 2 tons heavier! And T.rex opens the lead with another specimen that's 10-15 percent larger than Sue.

"Abundant remains of allosaurus have been found in the late jurassic Morrison formation of the western United States."

The Morrison formation is extremely good for catching fossils back in the late jurassic. But once again, fossils are not a good way to estimate populations! A good portion of Tyrannosaurus almost certainly inhabitated some highlands and that would have led to a very poor rate of fossil preservation. We think Pachycephalosaurus could have been common, but they live in a place where fossil preservation is poor, hence the dirth of remains. However, recent finds of up to 5 Tyrannosaurus in one place indicate they are more common then we believed, and trace fossils of Tyrannosaurus are also more common. If anything, there is a good chance Tyrannosaurus was as common or MORE common than Allosaurus. He lived in a world rich with targets anyway.

"It had a deep skull and jaws filled with flattened,serrated teeth. The jaws were capable of bending out-ward in the middle,thus enlarging the mouth."

A factual error here. Allosaurus had a deep head but a relatively shallow jaw. And bending out-ward in the middle is no special feature in meat eating dinosaurs. In fact, Tyrannosaurus had a special hinge that allowed his entire head to actually flex to absorb the shock of slamming them down on prey.

"The dinosaur's forelimbs were heavily muscled and ended in powerful,three-fingered grasping hands with enormous claws. "

No...actually they were quite average for carnosaurs. The claws were pretty average here too. Unfortunately, the forelimbs were positioned too far behind under the animal for it to use it easily. It is apparent these were grasping equipment, not slashing equipment, given their position.

"Its hind-limbs were massively constructed to support the animal's weight but were proportioned for rapid movement."

Badly placed, if you intend to you it for an argument. Tyrannosaurus' legs were better proportioned for even more raptid movement and were certainly more massively constructed.

"This formidable predator was probably one of the major threats to any ornithopods,stegosaurs,or sauropods that lived near it. "

This is probably true.

"An earlier name for allosaurus-antrodemus,or the "nightmare dragon"-reflects its predatory dominance."

I wanted to say something about this, but Brad beat me to it. You go boy!

"Most specimens of allosaurus are less than 26 feet(8 m)long,but some larger ones,including"Big Al,"which is on display at the University of Wyoming,are close to 40 feet(12 m)-and scientists think that Big Al was still immature when it died. "

Un oh... I checked this out. He was only 7.6 meters long from tail to snout, a nice 87 percent subadult. The 12 meter statement is a factual error, you had me there for a moment.

"Allosaurus belonged to the allosaurids,a group that peaked in the late jurassic and early cretaceous and was found in most parts of the world."

Well, they were found in most parts of the world because the entire world was virtually one continent at its time, severly reducing species diversity. After it broke up, the Allosaurusid in Laurasia apparently got their butts replaced by another predator, the Tyrannosaurids. Sadly, the rest off the Allosaurs in the southern continent were cut off and that allowed them to survive. So that's what they were: survivors, not partically sucessful.

"This group includes giganotosaurus,carcharodontosaurus,and sinraptor"

They are cool...but unfortunately I stand by my view that they would have been no match for T.rex. (And that's not because he's my favourite)

"Oh well its like i said.Don't hate the player.Hate the game!"

Well, you are saying this, but you are not doing it.

"You can either accept the truth or antagonize me out of you'r own ignorance!(you'r choice)"

Another factual error. Firstly, there are alot of errors in "truth" in this text and I don't think anybody is really antagonizing you, if anything, I've seen you call people names, belittle them, make snide remarks on them and insult them... ooh, who's the antagonzier here?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


"Don't hate the player.Hate the game! "

Then what's with this?

"And why does everybody like Honkie so much!!? That guy is the most evil #@^$ i can think of right now! "
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


I dunno about you, but I think I'd stick with the tried and true method of blowing the @$% out of big animals with overwhelming firepower. No less then a browning .50cal, and I'd like those new Javelin antitank missiles. What would be really good is a tank that can launch High Explosive Anti-Tank rounds (HEAT). You see, punching a hole in the animal is the first step to killing it. If you zap a bear with a .22 rifle with those AP rounds, you might be able to nick an artery, but the bear is gonna to have the time to kick your butt, maul you, and then bleed to death 1 hour later. When you shoot an animal, you generally want it down with one shot, NOW! Expecially if its charging you at 30+mph. :)
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 29, 2001


This is crazy? It is the visitors includes me are going crazy.My eleders,how do you expect us to respect you when sometimes even you are rude?
from Donovan c., age 12, ?, singapore, ?; June 29, 2001


"An earlier name for allosaurus-antrodemus,or the "nightmare dragon"-reflects its predatory dominance."

Actually, that's probably not true. Antrodemus more likely comes from the Greek "antron", meaning "cavern", plus the Greek "demas", meaning "framed". The name refers to the structure of the vertebra, not its predatory behavior. "Demas" does not mean "demon" in Greek, which is likely how your interpertation was started.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 28, 2001


This might sound strange but a small caliber bullet with a large cartidge might be a good bet to take down a T-Rex with one shot. A
22-250 Has a 22 caliber round that is long and pointed with a cartridge comparable to a thirty ought six. The projectile is fired at 4000 feet per second, that is almost twice that of any weapon afore mentioned. Load an A.P. round capable of peircing 2" thick steel and no amount of bone will stop it. In other words on shot one kill.

from Scott C, age 17, columbiana, Ohio, USA; June 28, 2001


Honkie Tong is obviously too kind and mature to respond to Sean's insults, so younger me is gonna do that:

Obviously, Sean has moved his focus from dinosaurs to insulting other people. So this dinosaur battle can more be said to be mroe of a battle between two people: Sean and Honkie. Who would win? I'm goign with Honkie because he's older and therefore must be bigger and stronger. I suppose being bigger (and smarter), Honkie bites hardest too. And looking at the past posts, I see Honkie's advantage: He has some form of military training! Honkie will probably smear his opponent's arse if they ever met in hand to hand, and I think he knows how to handle heavy weapons too. Heck, you could have 100 Seans (and we only have one) charging him but he could take them all down easily with his miliary training. So Honkie wins by a great margin and destroys an annoying threat to humanity.

Three cheers and three cheers and three cheers to Honkie!
Hip hip!
Hurray!
Hip hip!
Hurray!
Hip hip!
Hurray!
Yeah!!!!!!!!

ps: T.Rex has won this debate too!
from Eventisaurus, age -----, Salt Lake City, -----, -----; June 28, 2001


"And why does everybody like Honkie so much!!? That guy is the most evil #@^$ i can think of right now! "

That's because he's better than you. ;) Easy?
from Leonard, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


hehe...T.Rex lived in Laurasia, not Gondwanan. And it's pretty obvious he kicked the butt of all the Allosaurids in his region out of the ecological niche he filled. This is a new theory about his small arms. He could have used his small arms and fingers to show obscene signs to other dinosaurs while roaring the equvalient of "I'm the biggest, meanest dinosaur in the whole of @#$%^%&*ing Laurasia!!! One more wisecrack about my small arms and I'll rip your $%@* head off!!!"

Cool eh? No wonder he won this debate over Allosaurus.
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


Alright Lillian! We won!
from Dinoattack, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


Of course humans can beat Allosaurus! You know that general "Grizzly Bear"? "Storming Norman?" Well, he was the one that led the US collation forces to victory in the Gulf War. He is a T.Rex fan and I'm sure he'll provide M1A2 Abrams tanks to lend the fight. Allosaurus stands no chance against 60ton metal monsters spitting spent urinaum rounds! Wohoo! Of course, one might argue its unfair but its really their fault for pitting 6 Giganotosaurus against one Tyrannosaurus. Oh yes, did I mention Trident ICBMs?
from Dinoattack, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


what ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from name (Eman)initial (e.a.), age 8, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


How Many Eggs Can A Maisaura Lay In One Year?
from Euoplacephulus, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; June 28, 2001


YEAH WHAT ABOUT T-REX??!!!!! I don't care! The debate is already over! Brad and i have already made the verdict. I think we all know that allosaurids were not whimps! Look if you want to post bunch tripe about t-rex do it in the storys section. Not here. Allosaurus: 39feet(12 m) tyannosaurus:40 feet (12 m). "ALLOSAURUS". Abundant remains of allosaurus have been found in the late jurassic Morrison formation of the western United States. In many ways this was the quintessential large theropod. It had a deep skull and jaws filled with flattened,serrated teeth. The jaws were capable of bending out-ward in the middle,thus enlarging the mouth. The head was perched on a slender but strong neck. The dinosaur's forelimbs were heavily muscled and ended in powerful,three-fingered grasping hands with enormous claws. Its hind-limbs were massively constructed to support the animal's weight but were proportioned for rapid movement.Allosaurus stood on only the middle three of its five toes. This formidable predator was probably one of the major threats to any ornithopods,stegosaurs,or sauropods that lived near it. An earlier name for allosaurus-antrodemus,or the "nightmare dragon"-reflects its predatory dominance. Most specimens of allosaurus are less than 26 feet(8 m)long,but some larger ones,including"Big Al,"which is on display at the University of Wyoming,are close to 40 feet(12 m)-and scientists think that Big Al was still immature when it died. Allosaurus belonged to the allosaurids,a group that peaked in the late jurassic and early cretaceous and was found in most parts of the world. This group includes giganotosaurus,carcharodontosaurus,and sinraptor. Oh well its like i said.Don't hate the player.Hate the game! You can either accept the truth or antagonize me out of you'r own ignorance!(you'r choice)
from a bad dream, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


Triceratops Was Faster Than T-Rex.T-Rex Was Clumsy And Rude.See Walking With Dinosaurs?Suzie The T-Rex Was Killed By A Ankylosaurus.
from euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; June 28, 2001


Stop talking trash!!! Stop living in the past and move on!
from Sean.S, age 13, ?, ?, yak,yak,yak,yak!; June 28, 2001


Yayyyyy! We WON!
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


Septicaemia...a bad way to die, and your killer stinks too.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


Ph-ew! I'll bet T.rex smelled pretty nasty. T.rex's like komodo dragons, had adaptations to specifically harbour septic baterial. Under the microscope, the serations on T.rex's teeth are cubular in shape and tears, rather than cut meat as the triangular, delta-shaped serations in other species of carnivorous dinosaurs do. These serations however, are extremely good at trapping meat that the dinosaur ate, and rotting meat would have given T.rex its suppy of septic bateria and of course, his deadly morning breath. To understand how bad this can be, when researchers checked out the meat residue from a komodo dragon, the protein-rich residue was found to support large numbers of bacteria. They have found some 50 different bacterial strains, at least seven of which are highly septic, in the saliva. It's almost certain that Tyrannosaurus' mouth, harbouring even more meat than the komodo dragons, who have had an extremely septic bite.

How does this come into play? Well, T.rex (or rexes) could have rushed in and given the prey a single, shoveling bite, removing more than 60kilos of meat if it was good. If the prey somehow maneuvers away and escapes death at this point (which is extremely unlikely), chances are that its victory, and it, will nonetheless be short-lived. The infections it incurs from the T.Rex bite will probably kill it within one week (more likely in a matter of two to three days actually, going by modern komodo data); its attacker, or more likely other T.rexes, will then consume it. Of course, surviving a gaping would and a massive blood loss is hard enough for the prey, septic bateria, not to put it lightly, would have complicated things.

So if this is true, T.rex could have been able to kill anything with just one bite. All it had to do was to make a single connection on its prey and if it escaped, shadowed it till it dropped dead from shock or baterial infection. T.rex would then move in to feed. I'd expect the only animal to be immune to such bateria be another T.rex.

Of course, this didn't help his morning breath too much.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


"Yeah. so i've heard Lillian! Look if you guys want to put a bunch propaganda about t-rex on the internet do it elsewhere! I'm not getting involved if thats the answer i'll get! Face it. You t-rex fans
have taken the fall this time!"

If T. rex had taken a fall, we could back to talking about the evolution of ornithopods and cool stuff like that. This debate isn't over.

"There's no need to fight further because it only makes you look like stuborn antagonist!(which apparently you realy are!) Allosaurus being surrounded by underachievor animals sounds like a childish excuse to me! Come now!"

What "underachiever animals" are you talking about????

"A few allosaurs could turn a t-rex into hamburger meat!"

If the T. rex was already dead. :D (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

"I'm not even going into t-rex vs.6 giganotosaurus! (that would be downright unfair!)(on t-rex's side that is!)"

Of course it would be unfair to the rex.

"Hell i could say the sky is brown and that doesn't make it so!"

People say a lot of thing here based on no evidence, especially during a big theropod war.

"does it? You t-rex fans don't even know if you'r stalin or Hitler! I'm all fed up with you and this inquisition of you'rs! The party is over!!"

Do you want to take home some of the balloons?

"You all need to stop living in the past!"

You mean... stop liking dinosaurs???????

"suck it up and go on!I've already made the verdict!"

And now we're back to the sky being brown.....

"I couldn't agree more with that guy who said utah raptors
could take over the world with out a missile.(This would have been true back in the time of the dinosaurs.)"

No it wouldn't. Ignoring the implausibility of the whole concept, how are they going to take over Gondwanan continents without a boat?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 28, 2001


"I think Tyrannosaurus rex will win over Allosaurus (or a bunch of them for that matter), no matter what. Do you want to know the reasons?"

Yes.

"Experience.
Tyrannosaurus rex is extremely well versed in carnivore-to-carnivore fights, which are quite different from carnivore-to-herbivore fights. We find fossils of alot of healed injuries on Tyrannosaurus rex skeletons caused by other Tyrannosaurus rex, showing that your typical
Tyrannosaurus had alot of experience in fighting big, mean carnivores, and Allosaurus is not really even a big, mean carnivore."

Allosaurus may not be the biggest carnivore, but it is big. Did allosaurs fight each other too? Injuries reported in Allosaurus include a fractured radius, ?humerus, and fibula. There may be other things, theropod pathology isn't my specialty.

"Compared to him, Allosaurus is a complete newbie on the scene. We don't see any evidence Allosaurus spent extensive time and energy in aggressive contact with other carnivores at all, he has virtually no experience in carnivore-to-carnivore combat! He's a newbie! And as everybody knows, just like anything lite ....., newbies ......."

Allosaurus is eighty million years older than Tyrannosaurus. Newbie?

"Flexibility.
Tyrannosaurus rex is well-muscled, but proportionate. He can swim. He can run fast. He deals with a very 3D environment, and is used to handling fast and dangerous prey that charge him with 1 meter horns."

I'm not sure how Tyrannosaurus' environment would be more 3D than any other dinosaur's environment.

"Allosaurus...well. Wanna know how to take Allosaurus down? Trip her with a log. Laugh as he limps around like a while trying to get up, suffering the same fate as Big Al when he fell down on a lightly-built skeleton and an overloaded body. As Allosaurus limps, apply Jaw A to Cranium B.
Pull pack. Repeat."

Ouch, that's cruel.

"Fan Support.
One might very well think that Tyrannosaurus rex has it over Allosaurus here. And we know Tyrannosaurus rex fans are a force to be reckoned with..."

So now humans can beat Allosaurus?

"Popularity:
Allosaurus is not really popular and he's popular for a bunch of unimportant, obsqure reasons.

Tyrannosaurus rex is popular because he's big, mean, and bites things so hard, he blows the s&*# outta them!"

Popularity has nothing to do with fighting, or anything else. Dinosaurs don't know or care if you voted for them.

"If placed in a room with ten of their fanboys:
Allosaurus would probably get deserters.
Tyrannosaurus rex would have cover fire."

I didn't understand any of that.

"Disclaimer: This post describes a situtation where the typicai Tyrannosaurus rex and Allosaurus is squaring off in the modern world."

Modern world? This whole debate is crazy.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 28, 2001


Allosaurus at 35kmph?Whoah a rhino runs 39kmph hippos at 48kmph and elephants almost 50kmph. Don't ignore me.
from DONOVAN C., age 11, ?, SINGAPORE, ?; June 28, 2001


I think Tyrannosaurus rex will win over Allosaurus (or a bunch of them for that matter), no matter what. Do you want to know the reasons?

Experience.
Tyrannosaurus rex is extremely well versed in carnivore-to-carnivore fights, which are quite different from carnivore-to-herbivore fights. We find fossils of alot of healed injuries on Tyrannosaurus rex skeletons caused by other Tyrannosaurus rex, showing that your typical Tyrannosaurus had alot of experience in fighting big, mean carnivores, and Allosaurus is not really even a big, mean carnivore.

Compared to him, Allosaurus is a complete newbie on the scene. We don't see any evidence Allosaurus spent extensive time and energy in aggressive contact with other carnivores at all, he has virtually no experience in carnivore-to-carnivore combat! He's a newbie! And as everybody knows, just like anything lite ....., newbies .......

Flexibility.
Tyrannosaurus rex is well-muscled, but proportionate. He can swim. He can run fast. He deals with a very 3D environment, and is used to handling fast and dangerous prey that charge him with 1 meter horns.

Allosaurus...well. Wanna know how to take Allosaurus down? Trip her with a log. Laugh as he limps around like a while trying to get up, suffering the same fate as Big Al when he fell down on a lightly-built skeleton and an overloaded body. As Allosaurus limps, apply Jaw A to Cranium B. Pull pack. Repeat.

Fan Support.
One might very well think that Tyrannosaurus rex has it over Allosaurus here. And we know Tyrannosaurus rex fans are a force to be reckoned with...

Popularity:
Allosaurus is not really popular and he's popular for a bunch of unimportant, obsqure reasons.

Tyrannosaurus rex is popular because he's big, mean, and bites things so hard, he blows the s&*# outta them!

If placed in a room with ten of their fanboys:
Allosaurus would probably get deserters.
Tyrannosaurus rex would have cover fire.

Disclaimer: This post describes a situtation where the typicai Tyrannosaurus rex and Allosaurus is squaring off in the modern world.
from Dinoattack, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


Allosaurus vs. T.Rex:

Probable odds: No @#&*ing way to 1 far Allosaurus

...

You know, after the past two weeks, that Godzilla/Bambi thing is looking more and more reasonable.
from The superelectronic digital probability calculator, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


Allosaurus vs. T-rex, lots of bytes have been spilled over this.

Inconsequential.

Undoubtedly, it will all come down to a jaw to jaw, tooth to tooth street brawl. And if you're a betting person, keep in mind that bone crushing teeth will slice through and mince scaley reptile flesh, bone, internal organ and nerve tissue like a hot knife through butter, like a piano string through tofu, or like a arab terrorist through US customs. Tyrannosaurus dominance supreme.
from Hassan Ali Hammy S., age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 28, 2001


T. Rex was certainly more complex and smarter when compaired to Allosaurus. T. Rex had a sophisticated and complex brain, typical of his family group including the raptors and the troodonids.

Now, this is going to be a decided advantage, T. Rex, given his vast brainpower advantage over Allosaurus, will have a more varied and diverse form of communication. So T. Rex would win for one simple reason: his wacky dialogue. While Rexy throws a crazy line like, "I'm going to kill you now," (the dinosaurian equavalient that Allosauruses can understand) the simple Allosauruses, who amounts to little more than a few well-placed grunts and growls anyway, would still be searching for a witty rejoinder, when, whadda ya know, the T. Rex does indeed kill them. Once again, great writing saves the day.
from Colin G., age 14, Cameron Highlands, ?, Malaysia; June 28, 2001


The science behind Colin's witty quips.

"I've never seen a T. Rex smirk before."

This is technically true, I've never see a live T.Rex before.

"They might have been able to snarl viciously or open its jaws wide in a fierce rictus of a smile, but never smirk."

Well, I suppose T. Rex could open its mouth. Mabye to intimidate its opponent. And don't forget T.Rex stinks too, imagine Komodo dragon times thirty.

"But I believe strongly that if a pair of T. Rex saw a pack of Allosaurus coming towards them in an attempt to vanquish them, they would not only collectively smirk, but they would fall on their collective backs, overcome by hysterical laughter."

Lets assume T. Rex was familar with Allosaurus and its (laugh laugh) abilities...

"While the fleshy, lightly-built Allosaurus are trying to rip through the armored, hard-as-nails biological brilliance of the T. rex, they will wipe the tears of laughter from their eyes just long enough to casually wipe at these pint-size lizards, ripping their throats out."

Well, technically T. Rex didn't carry any form of armour, but he surely was extremely tough and solidly built. A.Fragilis is going to find T. Rex a tough nut to crack. Happily, on the other hand, T. Rex is not going to find Allosaurus hard to reduce to a pile of rended flesh and bone, hence my scarstic statements.

"Then they will all do a song-and-dance number among the Allosaurus' entrails, not unlike the similiar scene in "Spaceballs." To imagine a pack of Allosaurus being able to beat an T. rex in battle is like trying to imagine a daschund trying to mate with a sea turtle: it just ain't gonna happen!"

Scary eh?

Watch for my next witty quip, and nice cheer Eventisaurus.
from Colin G., age 14, Cameron Highlands, Perak, Malaysia; June 28, 2001


I was jokign Brad, but I wanted to illustrate how one-sided this "dinobattle" is against Allosaurus.
from Colin G., age 14, Cameron Highlands, Perak, Malaysia; June 27, 2001


Gee Brad you'r the only one who's even been kind all day.
from Sean.S, age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; June 27, 2001


T. REX STINKS!!!!!! Well, according to this JPI article:

http://www.jpinstitute.com/news/jne_trex_stinks.jsp

Interesting.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 27, 2001


"SUPRISE! SUPRISE! No one has lost! If allosaurids were half the whimps Lillian and Damian portray it as they would have gone extinct so fast their heads would spin! (isolation or not!)"

Allosaurids weren't whimps, but I suppose a whimp allosaur could exist as a scavenger or hunter of smaller prey.

"If these were teeth marks(wich i suppose are since Leonard pointed that out) that would only make allosaurus stronger than imagined! What do all you want me to say? Sue defeated all the allosaurus clan and lived happily ever after with Stan...the end. In the jurassic period in real life all hell would break loose!"

In the _real_ Jurassic period, T. rex didn't exist. Allosaurus didn't fight with them.

"not only could a couple or more of allosaurs give one t-rex a wedgie."

I seriously doubt dinosaurs gave wedgies.

"There would be so many of them that the poor t-rex would'int even know which one to bite first."

If you think Allosaurus is superior to Tyrannosaurus, why not imagine them fighting one to one? Theoretically, anything could kill Tyrannosaurus (or anything else) if it existed in great enough numbers.

"(i hope those fast legs work!)"

Why, I thought you want Tyrannosaurus to lose?

"I mean lets face it. it would be a no win situation! If allosaurids were so unsuccessful how come they were the ones kicking butt and taking names before the first t-rex even hatched from it's egg?"

Because _T. rex_ didn't exist to challenge them. :)

"If you want to believe that one t-rex could take out an entire pack of allosaurs why not believe in the crop fairy?"

I don't want to beleive that. Crop fairy??????

"No offense but i think you t-rex fans need to grow up and look defeat in the eye. (then again nobody won either) Of course if t-rex it's self had more numbers than allosaurus it would be a different story."

Sure. I really don't think "A pack of Allosaurus can kill an indidual Tyrannosaurus; and a pack of Tyrannosaurus can kill an individual Allosaurus" is a controversial statement.

"However it's simple numbers boys and girls they have more.(don't hate me. hate nature for creating allosaurids in the first place.)"

What proves that the allosaurs have more? Dinosaur ecosystems with allosaurids (like the Morrison) seem to have low predator populations relative to the herbivores (Bakker 1986). Of course, the number of fossil specimens doesn't truly show populations- which again makes your point questionable.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 27, 2001


Yeah. so i've heard Lillian! Look if you guys want to put a bunch propaganda about t-rex on the internet do it elsewhere! I'm not getting involved if thats the answer i'll get! Face it. You t-rex fans have taken the fall this time! There's no need to fight further because it only makes you look like stuborn antagonist!(which apparently you realy are!) Allosaurus being surrounded by underachievor animals sounds like a childish excuse to me! Come now! A few allosaurs could turn a t-rex into hamburger meat! I'm not even going into t-rex vs.6 giganotosaurus! (that would be downright unfair!)(on t-rex's side that is!) Hell i could say the sky is brown and that doesn't make it so! does it? You t-rex fans don't even know if you'r stalin or Hitler! I'm all fed up with you and this inquisition of you'rs! The party is over!! You all need to stop living in the past! suck it up and go on!I've already made the verdict! I couldn't agree more with that guy who said utah raptors could take over the world with out a missile.(This would have been true back in the time of the dinosaurs.) And why does everybody like Honkie so much!!? That guy is the most evil #@^$ i can think of right now! C'mon were talking a guy who just doesn't care who he try's to mess with! he just go's right on ahead and say's it! And every time i talk to him his answer is NO-NO-NO-NO-NO.Now isn't that ironic? And why do i call him often wrong? What do mean why?!! He's a trouble maker! (that's why!) There was one case where he said that dinosaurs could effect us from an island if we recreated them!!!!!(AN ISLAND!!!!) How on earth are you going to talk to somebody like that?! Why does he do this!? another bad habit he has is agreeing with people who are against me! Honkie if you hear this message it would help me very much to know what's going on here.
from the 7nth. sighn of evil, age YAK,YAK ,, yak,yak,yak,yak,yak, the book of revalations, could this be the face of Susie christ?; June 27, 2001


"I've never seen a T. Rex smirk before."

Of course you haven't. It's dead, and any lip muscles it may have had rotted away a long time ago.

"They might have been able to snarl viciously or open its jaws wide in a fierce rictus of a smile, but never smirk."

What evidence is that hypothesis based on?

"But I believe strongly that if a pair of T. Rex saw a pack of Allosaurus coming towards them in an attempt to vanquish them, they would not only collectively smirk, but they would fall on their collective backs, overcome by hysterical laughter."

Seeing how Allosaurus and Tyrannosaurus didn't coexist, I think the Tyrannosaurus would be at least a little careful around an unfamiliar large carnivore. They probably wouldn't want a fight.

"While the fleshy, lightly-built Allosaurus are trying to rip through the armored, hard-as-nails biological brilliance of the T. rex, they will wipe the tears of laughter from their eyes just long enough to casually wipe at these pint-size lizards, ripping their throats out."

Tyrannosaurs weren't armoured. The armour referred to _Dynamosaurus imperiosus_ actually belonged to an ankylosaur. Tyrannosaurus would not be happy if clawed by Allosaurus.

"Then they will all do a song-and-dance number among the Allosaurus' entrails, not unlike the similiar scene in "Spaceballs." To imagine a pack of Allosaurus being able to beat an T. rex in battle is like
trying to imagine a daschund trying to mate with a sea turtle: it just ain't gonna ha! ppen."

Great. Now I'm going to have nightmares about a dachshund mating with a sea turtle.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 27, 2001


"the first thing i want to say is that the owner of this (yeah rite!)site said that the velocirapter stood three feet tall ... ive seen the bone structure of a middle aged velocirapter and it was almost as tall as me ,,,, and im 5 ft 4 inchis."

If you stood with your back horizonal as Velociraptor did, you'd be under three feet tall too. Dinosaur heights measure to the hip, not the head, by adding the length of the foot (metatarsal III) and leg.

"and another thing , if you insist on insulting allasaur ,you should at least no that he/she was like splicing the jeans of a velocirapter and a t-rex."

I wasn't aware that Velociraptor and T. rex wore any type of pants.

"its just my guess, but i think that this dino was more agile than that overrated t-rex."

It's an accpetable guess. Things like agility don't fossilize.

"i think i know what im going to do for a living ,and it probably has something to do with animatronic dinosaurs."

Cool.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 27, 2001


Guys, expecially euoplacephulas, lets not ask Mr Holtz dumb questions ok?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


Jamie, I don't think Dino Crisis 2 is the most scientifically reliable source. _Velociraptor_ WAS only 3 feet tall, contrary to what many movies and video games portray. Dino Crisis 2 probably uses the name "Velociraptor" because it is easier to pronounce than _Deinonychus_, the real name for the "raptor" that size (and because Jurassic Park erroneously uses that name too).
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


Amphibhians were kicking butt long before Allosaurus on land, does that make a ungainly, stupid and clumsly carnivorous amphibian that could get its butt kicked by Allosaurus anytime more sucessful? NO! Age is not a measure of sucess when it comes to deciding these kinds of matches. Are ants better hunters then us beacuse they have been around longer? Are lions more dangerous and sucessful than human beings as the predator because they were around before we started hunting THEM? See the flaws in your reasoning yet Often Wrong (Sean)?

You are right Sean, Allosaurus is half the whimp we are making him look like...he's a complete whimp! Ha! Man, get your english checked and go read mroe about Allosaurus, you know less about it here than everybody and its your favourite dinosaur. Go get some objectivety removed man!
from Lillian Tay, age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


Erm Jamie,...Velociraptor was about 3 feet tall. Jurassic Park is nuts and you must have been looking at a Deinonychus skeleton, which was about the size you mentioned. Really, you should go and read more about dinosaurs, your knowledge seems lacking in that area, considering you are still holign on to 8-year old myths. Oh, and I suppose you would stand still if you saw a Tyrannosaurus would you...

...you're lunchmeat
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


Tyranno, Tyranno, shish boom bah,
Defeat the Allosaurus, ha, ha, ha!
First comes the CARNAGE, then comes the LUNCH,
Then comes the TYRANNOSAURUS, smiling like the Brady BUNCH!

Allosaurus, schmallosaurus, can't beat even in the pack!
Honkie is right: Sean don't know jack.

So gimme an T!
Gimme an R!
Gimme a E!
Gimme an X!
Gimme a ROAR! Gimme a ROAR! ROAR!!!! ROAR!!!!
TREX! TREX! TREX!

from Eventisaurus, age -----, Salt Lake City, -----, -----; June 27, 2001


This tripping idea bothers me. The arguments would seem to apply just as well to giraffes, which can be up to 18' tall, weigh up to 3960 lb., and gallop at 31-37 mph. Apparently, no one warned them about tripping :). Note also that ostriches can run at speeds of 40 mph. Although they are much smaller than tyranosaurs and giraffes (9 ft tall, less than 350 lb), any serious injury would put them on someone's dinner plate.

Apparently nobody warned birds about flying into walls too. euoplacephulas, it can be pretty silly to place these kinds of limits on animals based on 'what if' situtations. If we went by your reasoning, eagles could not fly faster than 50mph because if they flew into a wall above that speed, the impact would kill it. That's just not true. If anything, I'd expect T.Rex to be fast, extremely fast for his size...ok, not as fast as Bakker says, but fast, around 28-35 mpg, which is VERY fast for an animal its size, and certainly faster than any of its prey.
from Josh, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


T-Rex Was Slow.Anything Could Outrun It.Even If T-Rex Ran Fast,It Would Fall,Crack It`s Skull And Die.He Was So Big!
from euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; June 27, 2001


the first thing i want to say is that the owner of this (yeah rite!)site said that the velocirapter stood three feet tall! obviosly he hasnt gone to the museums, played dino crisis 2, or watched jurrasic park. ive seen the bone structure of a middle aged velocirapter and it was almost as tall as me ,,,, and im 5 ft 4 inchis. and another thing , if you insist on insulting allasaur ,you should at least no that he/she was like splicing the jeans of a velocirapter and a t-rex. its just my guess, but i think that this dino was more agile than that overrated t-rex.i think i know what im going to do for a living ,and it probably has something to do with animatronic dinosaurs.
from jamie, age 13, orlando, alabama, u.s.; June 27, 2001


T-Rex could beat up 10 Allosaurus. T-Rex could kill 10 Allosaurus too.
from ankylosaurus, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; June 27, 2001


Seriously, I don't think there is much hope for Allosaurus. All Sean.S the antirex has done here is to talk about the strong points of Allosaurus without doing so much as to compair them with Tyrannosaurus, who would have easily exceeded whatever he came up with. Also, he has been consistently putting up arguments that are based on big "ifs" and has been making gigantic assumptions and running as if they were proven paleontological fact. We don't even have a shred of consclusive evidence to show that Allosaurus were the cooperative, pack hunting dinosaurs he makes them out to be. Amazingly, he puts Giganotosaurus forward as one of his arguments and later corrects his opponents when they present Albertosaurus to prove their point, saying this was between Allosaurus and Tyrannosaurus, and not to add other dinosaurs in! Worse, he has consistently regarded to his preposition in such a degradatory and totally disrespectful way, its amazing anybody even puts up with him. (And I think his idea of bringing back dinosaurs is pretty lame, MC has better ones). All in all, this is more like a debate between two parties of greatly difference maturity and intelligence, and I am sad to say that the Allosaur faction is the one with the dirth of it.

But that aside, lets look at the facts we have on hand, no sweeping or baseless assumptions made:

Advantages of Tyrannosaurus
1)Tyrannosaurus was bigger than Allosaurus
2)Tyrannosaurus bit very much harder than Allosaurus
3)Tyrannosaurus is more gracile than Allosaurus
4)Tyrannosaurus' brain is larger and more complex than Allosaurus
5)Tyrannosaurus was more heavily built in the chest and neck area than Allosaurus
6)Fossil records indicate Tyrannosaurus can easily and consistently survive severe injuries that would have killed off Allosaurus
7)Tyrannosaurus had better steroscopic vision than Allosaurus, due to the orientation of its eyes
8)Tyrannosaurus certainly had a far keener sense of smell than Allosaurus
9)Tyrannosaurus' ears were exceptionally advanced and certainly more complex and sensitive then ears from a compairable Allosaur.
10)Tyrannosaurus was heavily muscled for a dinosaur of its size, and certainly more muscled than an Allosaurus, pound for pound.

Advantages of Allosaurus
1)Allosaurus had larger arms with one more claw.

...

Hmm...if you ask me, that isn't really gonna cancel out the advantages Tyrannosaurus has, even if you have the advantage in numbers. My guess is: If a Allosaurus (or a bunch of them) were dorky enough to take on Tyrannosaurus, they'll pretty much end up looking like that picture lamenting JP3 battle damage in the dinopicture section.

Tyranno, Tyranno, shish boom bah,
Defeat the Allosaurus, ha, ha, ha!
First comes the CARNAGE, then comes the LUNCH,
Then comes the TYRANNOSAURUS, smiling like the Brady BUNCH!

Allosaurus, schmallosaurus, can't beat even in the pack!
Honkie is right: Sean don't know jack.

So gimme an T!
Gimme an R!
Gimme a E!
Gimme an X!
Gimme a ROAR! Gimme a ROAR! ROAR!!!! ROAR!!!!
TREX! TREX! TREX!

from Eventisaurus, age ---, Salt Lake City, ---, ---; June 27, 2001


I would have liked to have sided with the Allosaurus, I really would've! But a couple of inescapable issues caused me to side with the Tyrannosaurus. Since we are obviously dealing with the Allosaursu as shown in Walking With Dinosaurs, I have to tip my hat to the Tyrannosaurus for one simple reason: Ratings. The Tyrannosaurus, as directed by Steven Spielburg, are capable of any amount of violence. They bite, slash, disembowel, and rip in the most horrific manner possible. The BBC WWD Allosaurus, however, find themselves limited to politically correct, G-rating violence. They can look scary, and may make a good show of being about to bite, but when it comes down to it, their primal rage will be limited to a few implicitly violent scenes. The Tyrannosaurus, with no such handicap, will tear the Allosaurus to shreds with no regard for the mental scaring they may inflict to impressionable youth (expecially one here). If only James Cameron could have directed WWD!!!!!!!!
from Eventisaurus, age ---, Salt Lake City, ---, ---; June 27, 2001


I've never seen a T. Rex smirk before. They might have been able to snarl viciously or open its jaws wide in a fierce rictus of a smile, but never smirk. But I believe strongly that if a pair of T. Rex saw a pack of Allosaurus coming towards them in an attempt to vanquish them, they would not only collectively smirk, but they would fall on their collective backs, overcome by hysterical laughter. While the fleshy, lightly-built Allosaurus are trying to rip through the armored, hard-as-nails biological brilliance of the T. rex, they will wipe the tears of laughter from their eyes just long enough to casually wipe at these pint-size lizards, ripping their throats out. Then they will all do a song-and-dance number among the Allosaurus' entrails, not unlike the similiar scene in "Spaceballs." To imagine a pack of Allosaurus being able to beat an T. rex in battle is like trying to imagine a daschund trying to mate with a sea turtle: it just ain't gonna ha! ppen.
from Colin G., age 14, Cameron Highlands, Perak, Malaysia; June 27, 2001


And I have discovery, thank you very much.
from Leonard, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


Ughh...judging by the way he's insulting people, somebody is gonna get banned again quite soon if he keeps this up... now, is that a good thing or a bad thing? I think its a good thing, nobody likes a person who goes around calling people "always wrong" anyway. Who argrees with me say aye!

*I'm not refering to anybody...yet.
from Leonard, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


Ok Honkie, we get your point about dinosaur battle-damage already!
from Leonard, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


I think Euoplocephalus is a stupid dinosaur. It had such a low IQ and was so overloaded with bone, he must have broken a leg whenever he stumbled, leaving him helpless. He must have moved at a top speed of only 3mph. In fact, he was such a pathetic sight that other plant eaters probabbly would have killed him on sight. This is to Euoplocephalus, the lousiest dinosaur in the world.
from Martin B., age 10, Dallas, Texas, USA; June 27, 2001


Wohoo! Cool picture Honkie! That's exactly what will happen if aaa pack of Allosissies decide to fight T-man! Ya da man
from Damean, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


SUPRISE! SUPRISE! No one has lost! If allosaurids were half the whimps Lillian and Damian portray it as they would have gone extinct so fast their heads would spin! (isolation or not!) If these were teeth marks(wich i suppose are since Leonard pointed that out) that would only make allosaurus stronger than imagined! What do all you want me to say? Sue defeated all the allosaurus clan and lived happily ever after with Stan...the end. In the jurassic period in real life all hell would break loose! not only could a couple or more of allosaurs give one t-rex a wedgie. There would be so many of them that the poor t-rex would'int even know which one to bite first.(i hope those fast legs work!) I mean lets face it. it would be a no win situation! If allosaurids were so unsuccessful how come they were the ones kicking butt and taking names before the first t-rex even hatched from it's egg? If you want to believe that one t-rex could take out an entire pack of allosaurs why not believe in the crop fairy? No offense but i think you t-rex fans need to grow up and look defeat in the eye. (then again nobody won either) Of course if t-rex it's self had more numbers than allosaurus it would be a different story. However it's simple numbers boys and girls they have more.(don't hate me. hate nature for creating allosaurids in the first place.) Sorry about the insults Honkie Tong. But sometimes i think you'r a zealous critic. And i did'int think you'v ever heard of good will. Nuff said....
from the blind eye of justice, age 13, i won't tell, i thy rex to thee, U.S.A; June 27, 2001


"the power of Sue compels you!, jesus sandles, the holey land"

?????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


*Sssk..* Attention all hands, those who want to talk scientifically about dinosaurs please proceed to Dino Science, thank you. *Sssk..*

"Yeah often wrong(Honkie Tong)..."

Hey, what's with the attack on me? I've never attacked you personally and I hope you will retain the common courtesy and refrain from doing so. Besides, its not fun making fun of people's asian names, its insensitive man. But then again, the only reason to resort to personal attacks is when you lost... and yes, I concur with Leonard that the groove marks were made by teeth. I've seen it on discovery, and also read about it in two seperate sources.

I don't think Allosaurus claws are harder then steel. Well, the fosillized claw is made out of rock, and would be harder than steel, but when the animal was alife, it was made of bone and certainly not harder than steel. In fact, the strongest material ever produced by an animal is spidersilk, and that's slightly stronger then steel for 0.1 percent of the weight. Bone is actually a composite of minerals and living cells and would not have been as tough as the metalic bonding between the individual steel molecules.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 27, 2001


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