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Dino Talk Sept 4-5, 2001: A Dinosaur Forum

"A rhino or elephant bull would beat a T.Rex."

Uhh.. And this is based on what exactly? Their good record of fending off lions?

"Mammals have so much more energy to expend and their muscles are way more efficent. Plus of course they are way, way more intelligent."

Mammals don't have any special reserves of energy that reptiles don't. Mammals simply have warm blood, meaning that they make their own body temperature. This also curses them to having to eat large quantities of proteins to fuel this process. Cold blooded animals on the other hand, rely on the enviroment. They also have to eat far less often, meaning a cold blooded animal is more likely to be at "peek" energy than a mammal is on average.

"T.Rex is cool, but he's outclassed by these two in a fight. And a Triceratops is in no way the same leauge as a rhinoceros. T.Rex would be killed."

I agree that Triceratops is in an entirely different league all together. I mean, triceratops is longer, had longer horns, and more mass. Meaning it pretty much had all the things that keep Rhinos off of modern day predator menus, only in a greater quantity. A different class is right. And how exactly would a T-Rex be outclassed? Rhinos and elephants both avoid predation by being larger than their predators. However, adult rhinos are not entirely without predators, as lions and other predators will attack, and kill them at times.

Elephants are pretty much off of everyone's menu. But only because they are so much larger than modern day predators. Their tusks aren't as well pointed as most Dinosaur species that used these, and an elephant is designed for mainly gouring anything small and stupid enough to get in it's way. A proccess in which the Elephant tackles an opponent, and stabs downwards with it's tusks.

And since a T-Rex by all means alone is equal in weight and power to a dozen or so lions I don't see how a Rhino would be off of it's feeding list. Granted, elephants are fast, and maybe able to outrun a Tyrannosaur, we don't really have any hard solid proof as to how fast a T-Rex could move. A rhino and elephants defenses are simply not designed for battling predators larger than they are, and I'm betting that they would be poorly adapted to deal with such a beast if they aren't able to outrun it.
from Usen, age 20, ?, ?, USA; September 5, 2001


Spinosaurs rules! He's bigger and meaner than Tyranosarus Rex. Spinosarus would bite him in the neck and kill him like in Jurassic Park. That movie was cool. Tyranosarus had no arms and was a scavenger.
from Mick, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


HHH rules!
from Foley, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


I doubt T.Rex would have been "mainly" a scavenger. How he fed depended entirely on what was avaiable. If there was a dead body, he went for it, if there was none, he would certainly hunt. It depended on what was avaiable. He won't show a prefrence for either behaviour and would have done whatever necessary. In fact, I think its more likely for the smaller predators to let T.Rex make a kill, and later scavenge from him. It dosen't make too much sense to spend so much energy and risk life making a kill, and later having to give it up to the local T.Rex/es. It makes much better sense to have not expended any energy and risked life and wait for a T.Rex to finish his kill. It's hard to say, but T.Rex would have had less restrictions about hunting as there was nothing that could have driven him away from a kill (except another T.Rex), thus he was free to hunt as much as he wanted without fear of having to give it up to another bunch of predators and being driven away after expending so much energy but have reped nothing in return. To say that T.Rex was mainly a scavenger is rather nuts as well, as he was too-well equipped znd armed to have hunting as a secondary role. And the good nose=scavenger statement is pretty moot, any animal's nose would have been better for smelling carrion than fresh meat, it dosen't matter if you have a good nose or not, carrion stinks more than normal meat. It's like saying seeing further makes you more of a scavenger.
from Leebac, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


"Why does everyone think Giganotosaurus was a wimp who would bite once and then sit around waiting ofr the victim to bleed to death? The jaws could have been used like a shark, violently rending and tearing, tearing up the victim. You are all forgetting how bad a laceration can get. Take the raptors for instance. They slash and rip the prey, and kill quite effectively."

Hmm...correct me, but I from my first-aid class, you tend to bleed more when you missing a large gouge of flesh, not to throw in broken bones. And the Giganotosaur method worked best on large, slow targets, like Titanosaurs and Stegosaurs. Against faster targets, its usefulness was dramatically reduced. (One reason why Allosaurids went into sever decline when large, fast-moving herbivores came out, they lacked the tools to kill them fast) Tyrannosaurus simply developed a more effecient method of killing. And of course, medium raptors have never been noted to kill anything above the 2.5 ton range, and for Utahraptor, a 5-ton range could have been the limit. Raptors weren't nearly as effective as we though, in fact, it's now starting to be clear they were more of hunters of smaller prey.

"AND SPINO EATS FREAKING FISH DUDE HE I! S LIKE A CROCODILE NEEDS TWO TO RIP THE VICTIM IN HALF."

A common mistake is to equate crocodiles with Spinosaurus simply via appearance. From the way a crocodile dispatches its prey, and the way it's skull was built, it was more akin to Tyrannosaurus, though it was still a far cry from it, than Spinosaurus. Spinosaurus couldn't even bite anywere near as hard as your crocdile. His croc-like snout was almost purely an adaptation for fishing, though they could ocassionally be turned on land-animals like juvinile Iguanadons, but he lacked the power and weapons to take down the larger ones effectively.
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


A rhino or elephant bull would beat a T.Rex. Mammals have so much more energy to expend and their muscles are way more efficent. Plus of course they are way, way more intelligent. T.Rex is cool, but he's outclassed by these two in a fight. And a Triceratops is in no way the same leauge as a rhinoceros. T.Rex would be killed.
from Ryno, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


It's time to nip this wrestling problem in the bud. Granted, some of the off-dinosaur posts are extremely funny and make that HHH fan look like a complete fool, but enough is enough. Let's cut it short here.

Of course, I don't even think the people rooting for Bruce are even T.rex fans, so please avoid making simple word-associations. And I think the Utahraptor thing still holds. I don't think any Utahraptor came anywhere as near as skilled as Bruce, and of course, T.rex was still faster. Not to mention I doubt Bruce never faced a 10 to 1 weight disadvantage against an opponent, like the Utahraptors. If the Utahraptors did fight like Bruce Lee, darn! T.rex would go down faster than you can say "Woah! That's fast" Thankfully, this never happened...

So it remains the same. T.rex beat Utahraptors and HHH, Bruce beats HHH, and Utahraptors beats HHH.
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


HA HA. HHH vs tiny Bruce Lee, that'd be like the USA military vs. some tiny or backwards country's like japan or china or one of the others. AnIlaTiOn. HA HA HA We rule the world like HHH rules the ring! HHH is like a f-15, a F-14, a F-22, the battleship Missouri, all our carriers, the B-1 and B-2 vs a single 60's technology Mig 17 (like those countries are still flying HA HA HA)
from AH64, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


"Upon seeing the trailer for "Valley of the T.Rex" on discovery, I am left puzzled as to what they mean by the statement "a T.Rex that looks unlike any they've seen before"....any thoughts?"

Probably a different species, or a Tyrannosaur with unusual characteristics.

"Get the wrestler people out of here! I know that the forum is moderated, so why are they still able to post wildly off-topic messages?"

Yes! I agree! J.C. what's going on??!!?
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; September 5, 2001


It's funny how when talking T.Rex versus Utahraptor all the T.Rex homers shout "size maters... not speed or specialization!" but when talking HHH vs. Bruce Lee they say just the opposite "size doesn't matter, speed counts!" I'd laugh if this wasn't so pathetic. T.Rex fans are the lowest. Sad. Pathetic.

As far as HHH vs. Bruce Lee... the axoim of fighting goes "A good big man will always beat a good little man, all things being equal"

And HHH is a better trained wrestler than Lee was a martial artist. HHH is undefeated in the NCCA's, Lee never even had ONE real match or fight. To say that an unproven coward like Lee is the best is just sad. I feel sorry for his fans. I could beat Lee. But HHH would beat 99.9999% of the population. Enough said.
from Cobo, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Get the wrestler people out of here! I know that the forum is moderated, so why are they still able to post wildly off-topic messages?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; September 5, 2001


"Oh Yeah Speaking of jurrasic Park three Wasn't Jeff Goldboom A Hunkasourius In that movie????"

Nope, he's not in it at all.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; September 5, 2001


You "people" obviously know little of what you speak about. Of course the WWF is scripted and the moves are perfomed in such a manner as to not seriously injur their opponent (e.g. Kurt Angles ankle lock is not given much pressure... but if really applied would break your ankle instantly). Why is is news? And stupidly, you try to use this to cover up the facts.

Facts: Kurt Angle is a multiple time natioanal amamturer champ and 1996 HEAVYWEIGHT OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST IN FREESTYLE WRESTLING. Can you people not understand that accomplishment? Wrestling is the acknowleged supreme art in hand to hand combat. This should also be known by anyone that knows anything at all about the fighting arts. Kurt Angle is one of the most respected wrestlers of all time. Wrestling dfeats all other fighting arts.

This question has been answered for many years now with the formation of the ultimate fighting championship (UFC) where people of ALL disiplines compete against one another in -anything goes- combat. What style has shown dominance? WRESTLING. Someone please explain this away. The "great" Gracie brothers (world jiu jitsu masters) had their careers ended in the UFC by WWF wrestlers like Ken Shamrock.

That is a fact. How do you movie-boy proponents explain this? Is the UFC rigged? Were they tired? Did they cry? Ha ha ha. And the UFC is NO RULES... suposseldy a martial artists can kill instantly... ha ha ha. What a a joke. They were tapping out in seconds to submission holds, locks and a barrage of body and head punches.

HHH didn't accomplish on the amuater level as much as Kurt Angle (no olympic gold, but he did have several other national amuater titles) but he is just as well versed, is bigger, stronger (700 pound bench press) and has the pedigree, which he invented, when really applied is DEADLY.

Bruce Lee was tiny, realivly weak, and most importantly NEVER HAD A REAL FIGHT!!! When speaking of his famous "movie fight" (return of the dragon) with Chuck Norris, Lee --admited-- that Norris would've easily defeated him and Chuck was gracious in doing the scene. This is a fact. How can this be disputed?

Lee was a cool guy in many ways, but real fighting was not one of them. To say he could beat a guy like Angle or HHH is simply laughable and makes whoever says that look really stupid.

There is no doubt that Bruce Lee was more than an actor, in fact he was a good gymnast and a decent martial artist. Now, With that being said, tell me this... "what world title did he hold?"

The answer is none.

A better small fighter that did compete against heavyweights and win in those days of real full contact Karate was the incomprible Byong Yu (5ft 6in 150 pounds) but he in the end found that despite his amazing ability he got knocked out by Joe Lewis and Monster Man 'Eddie Erverette' and never took the world title.

An even better small fighter was Benny The Jet Urquidez who did take the world heavyweight full contact title at a height of about 5ft6 or 7 and a weight of 165 pounds.The jet was amazing but even he states the **axiom of fighting**.... "if all things are equal a good big man will beat a good little one"

Chuck Norris would have mopped up the ring with bruce lee as well.

Think that Bruce lee could have ever beaten Bill 'Super foot' Wallace? Or Brad Hefton? Not a chance.

Bruce lee never fought any of those guys because he would have ended up as a little fighter beaten by better little fighters and would have taken the full count in a horrizontal position down and out for good. The Korean Master and full contact fighter Buong yu challenged Bruce Lee many times and Lee refused.

Bruce Lee perhaps could have been a great lightweight KO Karate fighter that MIGHT have been able to rumble with some middelweights and (possibly) a few light heavies in the ring but to say that he was one of the greatest fighters of the 20th century is a load of garbage.

Mr Lee was a great teacher, thinker, artist, actor, chacha dancer and coreographer but he was never a professional fighter and never took a full contact title.

About that one inch punch... well, I gotta tell ya pal, Bruce couldnt have knocked the wind out of Chuck Norris with it. Or HHH, or whoever. If anyone really believes all the Bruce Lee hype, I have a suggestion for them, read lots of comic books and be sure to order the 'Dim Mak' Death Touch via a vibrating palm book that is often sold in the back pages of those fine perodicals along with stink bombs, x ray glasses,and plans for an antigravity engine.

My final point: To apply pure fantasy to Bruce lee is to demean the true greatness of his character and skills he was a great martial artist, Teacher, and thinker but he NEVER proved that he was even a good fighter in the KO karate ring. His speed and and coordination were fantastic and in a street fight he could and was very adept at pummeling larger slower less well trained opponents. But his powress in the ring is unknown hence the title of worlds greatest fighter is a joke.

Want to read about a fighter that just might fill the bill as the greatest martial artist ~pound for pound~ of the 20th century
check out Benny "The Jet" Urquidez.

But even he would tell you- an accomplished grappler, such as Kurt Angle or HHH, will beat a martial artist ~every time~, esp. a much smaller one such as Bruce Lee.
----------------------------------------

Hmmm, Bruce Lee vs the worlds greatest freestyle wrestler and gold medalist Kurt Angle.... Lee wouldn't have a chance. He'd be screaming in pain from an ankle-lock in 2 seconds. Even if he could somehow get a punch or kick in, Kurt wouldn't even feel it. Bruce Lee was just a movie-boy. Kurt actually went out and did something. Won a gold medal, amatuer championships and the WWF title.

I've never seen a martial artist beat a wrestler in a mixed martial arts competition. Ever. Period. Enough said.

And HHH could probaly beat Angle. He's not as quick but he's far stronger (he has a bench press of 700 pounds.... the world record is 800 and something) and has a whole arsenal of moves. He is a multiple time amatuer wrestling champ, the pinical of "real" wrestling, in additon to multiple time WWF champ. He's know for being able to take ungodly amounts of punishment. he once tore his quad (the big muscle in your leg) and still finished the match... including giving wrestler Chris Jericho a pedigree. the tear was later discovered to be 12 inches long! the doctor said 99.9% of the population would pass out from such pain. HHH is the game. straight up.

http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-3.jpg (the devasting pedigree)
http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-5.jpg
http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-1.jpg
http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-2.jpg

Ha Ha. Ross rules. He showed you people that have been monopolizing the board with all the T.Rex garbage. For all of you that don't know, the UFC is "real" fighting were boxers take on sumo who take on martial artists who take on wrestlers etc. etc. You can rent them in any Blockbuster. And yes, wrestlers always win while the "martial artists" do rather poorly. While the outcome of WWF matches are indeed "fake" the skills those wrestlers have are very, very real. Kurt Angle won the Olympic Gold Medal in freestyle wrestling while HHH is a national champ. Either would wipe the floor with the tiny Bruce Lee who was about 5 feet tall and 150 pounds and jumped around and kicked for movie cameras. Ha Ha Ha.

The perpetuation of the lie that HHH was in some bar fight shows how desperate T.Rex fans are. That is total fabrication. I would like for a T.Rex fan to post ONE news link that confirms this. But it won't happen as it is a lie. Or maybe T.Rex fans are so dim-witted as to confuse "HBK" with "HHH" ? They're dimwitted enough to like a big buzzard. Just like all the "facts" to "show" how T.Rex would beat Spino etc. are all made up, it's laughbale. T.Rex fans are a joke in the dino community. All they do is lie to help support the big scavenger.

Bruce Lee = a overrated, tiny, movie boy who could kick his little legs for the camera really fast. he could jump too. wow.

Jackie Chan = same as above

Kurt Angle = an Olymipc gold medalist who beat the worlds best

HHH = National amatuer champ, undefeated in the NCCA's

Ken Shamrock = the "worlds most dangerous man", UFC champion

summary.... WFF rules while tiny little martial artists get blown away by size, strength and speed grpplers like Kurt Angle and HHH. Ha Ha Ha.

Honkie Tong, you are the worst T.Rex homer here. All of you guys should start up your own "T.Rex Only" site. And what in the devil are you talking about? Oooooo.... that sounds sooooo bad. Ha Ha. Actually it was sorta funny. Like I said, go rent any mixed martial arts competition video or PPV and see how the wrestlers fare.... they DOMINATE. "Small and graceful", huh? Um, ok. That'll be useful when you're tapping out to a ankle-lock or a arm-bar. Size does matter dude, sorry. That's just life. Only good strikers (e.g. boxers) have done well against wrestlers... when getting a lucky shot in. But an experienced wrestler will take an opponet to the ground immeditly where it will be all over in a matter of seconds.

I suggest people stop talking about things they have no clue about. Want to see what happens when equally high skilled fighters of all disciplines get it on? Rent any UFC or other mixed competition. It's not that hard. Seeing for yourselves should hopefully mean alot more than listening to some people babble on a message board.

Honkie, I enjoyed the "small and graceful" thing... very amusing. It made me think of Royce Gracie... the world-reknown jiu-jitsu master and king of the "small and graceful" camp. He was UFC champ for a while, until he met his first real grappler by the name of Ken Shamrock (now in the WWF and still a MMA competitor) who wiped the floor with him. Gracie has since lost to several other grapplers he's faced. The UFC soon became domianted by grapplers. Ken Shamrock, by the way, has been beat several times by HHH in MMA compitetions.

And I laugh when uneducated non-sport, non-MMA fans dis the WWF... Ken Shamrock has beat every major martial artist there is to beat, yet in the WWF he's only about #5. Kurt Angle being probably the baddest legit fighter in the WWF, then HHH, Al Snow, Rob Van Dam, then Ken Shamrock.

The aquired highley developed skills of Shamrock and HHH are so much more impresssive than the smelling ability and armlessness of the overgrown buzzard T.Rex. I guess it's just sour grapes, huh.

I guess T.Rex fans will continue to make up lies to support their giant scavenger, while people actually looking for truth will seek it out. Not much changes.

ps - Just a even profecient wrestler will beat a top-level martial artist everytime. People that say otherwise.... please explain why in the UFC (where anything but eye-gouging goes i.e. you can break bones etc.) why the wrestlers ALWAYS WIN??? Ken Shamrock, a mid-level WWF guy, whooped up on martial artists multiple times. Including the Gracie brothers, the most respected jiu-jitsu clan in the world. I'm tired of people making stuff up, **video tape doesn't lie**

Wrestlers rule in real fights. Leave the "pretty" martial arts moves to the cute little "movie boys".
from Hunter H. H., age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Upon seeing the trailer for "Valley of the T.Rex" on discovery, I am left puzzled as to what they mean by the statement "a T.Rex that looks unlike any they've seen before"....any thoughts?
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Rhinos are bullied, sometimes even killed, by elephants on the African plain. What more a Tyrannosaurus?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


WWF fans are so pathetic that I don't get mad at their fanatic gibberish, I just feel sorry for them and ignore their skewed views. To say that a human could defeat a 6-7 ton theropod in one-on-one hand-to-hand combat is simply saying so to make T.Rex fans respond and be conflictive. Any human (with his bare hands for weapons) would last no longer than mere seconds face to face with a hungry tyrannosaur in an enclosed, open area. If the human wielded anti-tank weaponry, that would be another story.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


"I mean wouldnt you be pissed off is some palentologist(jack horner) came up with a theory that gigantosaurus is a scavenger?"

No. About that scavenger stuff, did you thimk I was saying Tyrannosaur was a pure scavenger? I wasn't saying that. I said he was probably mainly a scavenger. There are few creatures today that are pure predators or scavengers.

"While gigantosaurus has teeth that would make his opponent bleed to death but he may not get a bite that would necassarilly kill his oppenent while if tyrannosaurus took a bite out of you you would have a ton of pain where ever he bit you or you would just die"

Why does everyone think Giganotosaurus was a wimp who would bite once and then sit around waiting ofr the victim to bleed to death? The jaws could have been used like a shark, violently rending and tearing, tearing up the victim. You are all forgetting how bad a laceration can get. Take the raptors for instance. They slash and rip the prey, and kill quite effectively.

"AND SPINO EATS FREAKING FISH DUDE HE I! S LIKE A CROCODILE NEEDS TWO TO RIP THE VICTIM IN HALF."

Crocodiles are very dangerous, deadly, accomplished hunters, unlike this way of thinking, the crocodiles needing two of them to eat a large animal.

"I agree with with Kamui S. We been arguing for more than half a year now. We are almost the only ones here who now. Who started it?!?!?!"

We aren't arguing anymore.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; September 5, 2001


Martial Artists really hit people. Wrestlers only pretend to hit people. All the wrestling 'moves' require not only the co-operation, but the active ASSISTANCE of the opponent.

For some obscure reason, in the fantasy world of pro wrestling, any damaging maneuver 'stuns' the opponent, leaving him in a dazed, helpless state, wherein he limply submits to whatever pseudo-'beats' get laid on his sorry ass, until he suddenly and without warning snaps out of the daze and performs a 'reversal' which then dazes his opponent.

Wrestlers CANNOT COPE with opponents who actually resist their attacks and attempt to avoid their blows. The following scenario would enact itself six times over in this fight:

HHH: slaps chest of opponent.
Bruce Lee: Punches wrestler in face, caving in one of his cheekbones.
HHH: Is surprised by violation of script, attempts to grab opponent.
Bruce Lee: Hops backwards and punches opponent three more times in face.
HHH: Stands there stunned. (Though we can't tell as he dosen't have much of a face left)
Bruce Lee: Throws six-punch combo that opponent does not even attempt to avoid.
HHH: Falls to mat, in a deep coma or dead.

Simple math, simple martial arts pratice and sparring kills (on average) 15 people per year. The only times a wrestler dies is when they OD on steriods or the cable breaks. I think we know what's the deadiler one here.

The entire issue becomes even more stupid when it comes to T.Rex vs. HHH. Predators really bite their prey, Wrestlers only pretend to hit people.

Now for obvious reasons, Wild Animals have to cope with prey that will NOT co-operate with them. They will have to employ whatever method, no matter it be sharp claws, venom, biting, cutting, tearing or whatever ugly or gruesome methods, to bring down their prey. They are killers designed to kill. Not only will they not co-operate with their opponent, they will do whatever means possible to kill their opponent, no matter how excessive the method seems.

Now here's how a fight would take place:

HHH: Punches opponent with wrestling slap.
T.Rex: Roars, ducks head, bites into HHH, and rips him into two.
HHH: Is unable to take this ungodly amount of punishment, dies.

Short fight. HHH stands no chance against a wild animal like T.Rex. HHH may look all muscled and such, but his great six-pack and chest muscles which he could twitch with that annoying effect would be in the eyes of T.Rex, be as revelant as beef steaks, prime cuts.
from JAZ, age ?, ?, ?, US; September 5, 2001


And just how many here know wrestling legends? Hulk Hogan? Look at him NOW - even LENO kicked his butt. As I said, Wrestlers are all marketing. Put them in real fights and they'll be crouched on the floor calling fort their mommies while sucking their thumbs. Whereas boxing had Joe "the Brown Bomber", Muhammed Ali Clay, Joe Foreman. These guys punch through skulls harder than steel. Muhammed Ali even appeared in comic book fighting against SUPERMAN, dammit! Heck, Lee the Bruce won't even take too much to defeat these boxing guys. If Lee can beat these guys who can stand toe-to-toe with someone more powerful than a locomotive, the wrestlers are in deeper than a proctologist's arm.

And then there's the Tee rex...

Sigh, the Godzilla vs. Bambi thing is starting to look more reasonable...
from The Saint, age 19, Dallas, Texas, United States; September 5, 2001


What is this rubbish I hear here about wrestlers like HHH and Kurt Angle taking on the ultimate king of smash-mouth predation T.Rex and the ultimate king of hand2hand hurt Bruce Lee? Before they get so above themselves, I suggest the "profeesional" wrestlers go fight the "professional" boxers before they decide to try something so advanced.

Here's how i see the fight going:

"Aaaaaaaaaalet'sgetreadytotuuuuuuumbllllllle!" and the contestents charge straight at each other. Being all just a little lacking the the brain cell(plural) department after years of whacking the hell out'a each other (not that they had that many to start with), they collide head on, and reel around in a mildly concussed manner before getting their vision back. When they can once again see without all the little birdies tweeting around their heads, they take a good look around and see 10 other fighting guys and one gal trying to work out who the hell they're supposed to fight.

Lets face it, team spirit is not going to be either team's greatest asset: all they do is fight each other anyway. The question is, do they fight together for the greater good (ie: decimating the other team), or do they simply whoop the hell out of those most familiar to them. As has already been said - these guys don't have enough processing power to change a lightbulb, let alone solve compex problems like this. Therefore they just lay into whoever's nearest, regardless of the team colors.

As the blood flows freely around the stadium the weaker opponents get mushed into the ground and the stronger ones bleed on them as we get down to the final two contestants. As Angle dispatches Chyna, a hush falls over the stadium as he steps forward to win his trophy. Suddenly an animal-like shriek fills the air, and a black- clad figure stands before Angle.

"Ya koy asara kaling to daewoo kara?" [ "Fool! You think i would let *you* win a fighting contest?] A ski-mask is pulled away to reveal Bruce Lee, Chinese Boxer, Kung Fu extraordinaire, King of Kick Ass. Kurt Angle tries to run, but is kicked sprawling on his behind by the martial arts man.

"So ya kamu do yo dosa cha!" ["You can run, but you can't hide!"] Utters Lee as he finishes off the poncy-named pratt.

The moral of this story girls and boys? Don't bother with boxers and wrestlers. They're dumb.
from "Kung Fu Kicks Ass! Ahem." -Guildenstern, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Bruce Lee is gonna win this. I don't know jack about Lee, but I do know that Wrestlers like Kurt or HHH MUST DIE. The reasons:

1) Half-naked sweaty men wearing makeup and strutting, then trying to get on top of each other. Does Uncle Morton have to spell it out for you?

2) All wrestlers are huge, especially compared to Lee, as some have so eloquently pointed out. But this is not a good thing. If there is one thing years of vapid televised entertainment has taught me, it's that big guys lose. Bluto vs. Popeye. That Wizard Guy vs. the Smurfs. Tom vs. Jerry. Every time, lose, lose, lose.

3) In the above, all the examples were cartoons, ne c'est pas? There's a very good reason for that: The Wrestling World is about as divorced from reality as anything Warner Bros. ever put out. They have no clue how to fight for real. The martial experts like Lee get hit and based all the time, on purpose, for real meaning they have some experience with REAL pain, as opposed to wrestlers like Kurt or HHH, who are as seperated from their fans as from anything else, only experiencing real pain by accident.

4) Speaking of experiences with pain... Wrestlers don't get that big from exercise, miladdo. They take steroids by the boxful. Which means that EVERY wrestler in this fight has shrunken, hardened, *ahem you get my point. And when the aforementioned groin-punch hits them, the walnuts are gonna shatter, and...

The results: All the male wrestlers are left pummeled and bleeding where no man wants to bleed, and the fight is over before it started, with Bruce Lee defeating Kurt, HHH, Stone Cold, The Rock, Steve Austin...ect. Without working up too much of a sweat.

Cue end credits and WWWF theme music (any suggestions?)

Ps: The immortal Mr. T could have helped, but sadly the opposing wrestlers are also against T.Rex, and Mr. T couldn't bring himself to betray his long time buddy, said. "I pity the fool who messes with my buddy." And leaves them to their fate against Bruce Lee/human weapon of destruction incarnate.
from Morton Van Buggery, Critic with a Shotgun, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Before we begin, I would just like to say that I am a wrestling fan.

Go on, say what you want, I've heard it all before. But before you go too far, realize one thing: this one is going to the boxers. Here's why:

As a 16-year-old wrestling fan, I have been put into many of these moves. Now realize this, especially you HHH fan:
Aside from submissions,

THE MOVES ARE DESIGNED TO NOT BE PAINFUL.

Now that that's been made clear, I will go on. I said aside from submissions above. But, if you'll notice, not one of the wrestlers in the fight uses a submission as their finishing move. NOT ONE. With all the wrestlers throwing Lee around, they'll soon tire themselves out, and the Bruce the bruiser will make quick work of them. Even Jackie, while he's having his in-ring snack and Meineke endorsement. Martial artists, no contest.
from Istanbul, age 16, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


The ultimate form of good ol' American entertainment would involve warriors slaying each other live on pay-per-view. But there are pesky laws prohibiting that at present. So which comes closer to the ideal, martial artists or wrestlers? Since martial artists typically results in genuine physical harm by design - whereas wrestlers are only really injured in freak accidents - surely martial artists are better entertainment for the bloodthirsty hordes. Thus, it will win. Lee and company mop the floor with the wrestlers in under a minute flat.
from tuffy, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Bruce Lee can't perform the bone-crushing wrestling moves, the death-defying ring-manipulations, or the powerful and versatile techniques of wrestling!

...on the other hand, neither can HHH or Kurt Angle or any wrestler for that matter. Lee beats HHH and Kurt AT THE SAME TIME in five seconds. And then rip their ears off.
from Istanbul, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


HHH... Wrestler for lunch
from the Flaberghasted Ferret, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


HHH or Kurt Angle'll never stand a chance against a T.Rexes weight in Chihuahuasauruses{TM}
from Valium, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Man. The worlds most unconquerable force. Since before the dawn of time Mankinds mission has been to encounter and destroy every form of indiginous life it has encountered. There has never been a match for our destructive force.

Time. Space. Nature.

None of these things has halted man's quest to obliterate or exploit everything it touches.

But man owes his' very existense to an allowance of nature. An asteroid the size of Texas slamming into the Earth and kicking up dust millions of miles around.

This asteroid resulted in the utter destruction of the dominant lifeform on the planet. The dinosaur. And T-Rex was the king of them all, the largest, most powerful predator the Earth has ever known.

Large, covered in scales and with gigantic teeth larger than combat knives and larger than the size of a school bus, these beasts ripped each other to peices for millions of years, but with their death came the birth of man and with the birth of man came the death of nature.

But through the miracles of science NATURE CAN HAVE ITS REVENGE!

In one corner HHH! In the other corner T-REX, VELOCIRAPTOR, PTERODACTYL, TRICEROTOPS and many, many other horned, fanged and otherwise vicious dinosaurs.

That best wrestler wannabe may have good luck poaching slow moving and stupid opponents like pro wrestlers but he aint never tackled nut'n with the speed of a Cheetah and with claws sharper than a straight razor!

He's never taken on a beast with the size of an office building, the T-Rex is a locomotive with teeth.

Now while the HHH may have the blood of a thousand Great Wrestlers running through his veins you must remember that in seconds these great beasts of nature will have the HHH blood running through their teeth and down their gullets!

Time to throw another shrimp on the barby! BYE HHH!
from Kenneth E. Carper, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


How annoying is "the hunter"? Seriously, how many human or animal lifeforms for that matter can take more than 10 "I am the Game and I am that damn good."? So, in my reasoning, Rexy gets so annoyed that his Annoyance tm blossoms into the Rage tm which is the deciding point in all grudge matches. Plus i had to sit through 20 hours of lame WWF because my brain-rotted friend wouldn't change the channel, so i really wanta see HHH (or at least hear how) he was messily devoured while obviously saying "and now that i begin my journey through the great T-Rex's digestive tract..."
from T.D.R, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


What the Abyss!? T.Rex is fighting a human being one on one?!

HHH, for all purposes and effects, is a puny human (TM), and in all genres of science fiction (of which Jurassic Park is part of), puny humans only win when in large numbers, backed by high technology or bad music (As seen in ID4 and Mars Attacks). The Hunter Hearst Hemsley has no bad music, no masses of men behind him, and only scanty technology in form of a ridiculus spandex swimming trunks two sizes two small that is probably inpeeding the flow of blood to his brain that actually allowed him to be dumb enough to pick up this fight. Sorry, goofy swimming trunks don't quite cut it.

T.Rex polished off Dangerous Dinosaur Hunters with guns in Jurassic Park, what's HHH to them? Another snack, that's what.
from Katrover S., age 13, Malibu, California, USA; September 5, 2001


HHH vs. T.Rex?

Let's see now:

A demented wrestler whose main skills are surviving close encounters with large, stupid people while commenting on the aesthetics of their intelligence while igonring the fact that he has to be pretty low on intelligence to be fighting them too, vs... a bunch of a large carnivorous dinosaur with sharp teeth.

I would like to have said Mr. H "Hunter" Triple H has this in the bag, no? But these are no crocodiles, mister. These are swift-moving, flesh-rending, bus-sized movie monsters of the subclass Archosauria, and they're not about to let some idiot with a goofy "I am the Game" catchphrase examine their teeth without having to buy a one way ticket down the gullet (unless he's a licensed dentist, which I doubt).

"Danger! Danger!" indeed. This match is over before you can say "What big teeth you have, Grandma!"

Watch for HHH's next apperance in "The Monster Turd"
from Andy the Anarchist, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


This match would be so one-sided Lee will end up spanking Kurt like a Vandal in Singapore.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Guys guys guys, you're forgetting that there are a lot of other people who could wipe the floor with HHH's and Kurt's guts than simply Bruce Lee (who could have propelled them into orbit with a kick). You're forgetting one of the greatest Martial Artists of all time too, in such a situtation, this man should not have been left out, no man is an island, except him...

LO WANG!

HHH and Kurt Angle are locked in a grudge match after the latter accidently suggested Bruce Lee might be able to beat them. Disagreeing violently, Kurt decides to show some moves on HHH to prove to him that there is no chance of Bruce have a chance against them, and the fight starts. Unknown to both contestants there is a third person in the room. It's Lo Wang, almost invisible in all his ninja sneak skills, is looking for something worth killing. He looks at the two contestants. In an attempt to make the fight a fair one, he sneaks into the closet and starts taking off weapons. He puts down the BFG [tm], the katana, the claw thing, the tatical nuke, the uzi, the railgun, the throwing stars...etc. He leaves during the first piledriver move.

By the time it returns with a spoon from the employee cafeteria the fight has gotten quite messy, but as wrestling moves are a spectale but generally harmless, both HHH and Kurt are in barely injured.

"So, is it true that stuntmen are scared to work with you ?" mutters the Kurt, delivering an atomic wedgie that would be the envy of the whole fifth grade.

"Well, is it true that you bought your last rank?" gasps the HHH, breaking free with a brutal Purple Nerple. The two washed-up thugs back off and head for the corners.

"Steroids make you stupid, you know that?" Kurt the Burt hisses.

"Well, I know pasta makes you fat, which you don't seem to have figured out."

At this point the Lo Wang turns visible, tapping the spoon on his wristguard. Both opponents turn to face this new threat.

The WWF wrestler is first to the quip.

"I am the GAME, I'll kick your arse!" HHH rushes up and attempts to Pedrigree the shadow warrior, but the move causes as much real damage as it does on a wrestling run, which is none. What HHH has managed to do sucessfully is however, left his groin unprotected and open for Lo Wang . A punishing gouge to the nether regions leaves HHH curled up in a little ball gasping, "Script doctor!"

The larger and more ponderous Kurt makes his move. "You are going to be sorry that your mother ever gave b. . .ever. . . raised you." He grasps the Lo Wang's non-weapon arm and does some complex wrestling move that by wrestling rules would make the reciever of it cry like a baby. Unfortunately, the Lo Wang is 100% not wrestler and he does not follow the rule that you should make-relatively-painless-wrestling-moves-seem-more-painful-than-they-really-are and the arm bends comfortably. Lo Wang then whacks Seagal on the forehead hard enough to bend the spoon at a right angle, dropping him to his knees.

Final scores:

HHH, 2 out of 10 for wisecracks, 2 out of 10 for combat, total 4 /20.

Kurt Angle: 3 out of 10 for wisecracks, 2 out of 10 for combat. Total 5/20

Lo Wang: 0 out of 10 for wisecracks, 9 out of 10 for combat. Total 9/20.

"You are tiny grasshopper, HHH and Kurt!"

I voted for Seagal. . .but I didn't like it.
from boltcutter, age 18, ?, Iowa, USA; September 5, 2001


After a short series of brutal fights against B.L, I see HUNTED HERSTED-Helmsley on a busy street corner holding a sign which says "Will kick )(*& for food."

Never bet on the big guy.
from Eric Z., age 13, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


I had to vote for T-Rex. Even though he's getting kind of frighteningly large and always walks around showing that set of fearsome teeth with a "Don't mess with me!" kind of look on his face, I can't get over the fact that H Hopless H is seriously trying to take T-Rex on. As if a few slabs of steriod-cured muscle of his chiseled musculature are going to protect him from THE WRATH OF TYRANNOSAURUS(tm). What a retard.
from - - S|GmA, age The Gamer, Primal Prey, By Sunstorm Interactive, Try It Today; September 5, 2001


Unbeknownst to the HHH and Kurt Angle who are bragging on how much their fan boys blow them way out of their size, the little chinese window washer waiting outside is just listening to them.

"I like to let people talk and see how full of *@$# they are." (Rush Hour)

He breaks in using an African bracelet, pulls out his bucket and aluminum ladder(tm, c, r) and makes HHH into a waffle. Then, he, through his skills in martial arts and stunts, gets Kurt Angle to charge him and run out the window. "You know he's dead" (Chris Tucker, Rush Hour)
from Tristan "Wipe yourself off, you're dead" Pratt, age 19, LA, CA, USA; September 5, 2001


HHH once tore a calf muscle in order to win the match. Using similar logic, he tries to batter Lee's fists with his own face. Not only does this result in HHH losing the fight, it also knocks all his teeth out, making his speach even harder to understand than Lee's.
from Scott Jorgenson, age ?, Lebac, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


HHH fan, your pitiful knowledge of Martial Arts is evident in your posts. HHH, Kurt Angle will lose in shame and dishonour. Beware the power of Yakuza
from Nakeikami, age ----, Osaka, ?, Japan; September 5, 2001


I suggest you do your research before dismissing Bruce Lee, (which is I notice, his refrence to small puny people is actually a veiled racist refrence to the asian people)as a overrated, tiny, movie boy who could kick his little legs for the camera really fast. Why? Well you are obviously very unfamilar with what he could really do.

If you want to get under the skin of a Chinese guy, you're not going to shout out, "Hey Mister HHH!" You're going to shout out, "Hey Bruce Lee!" Is it because Bruce Lee was slower than HHH? No. Is it because Bruce Lee wasn't as good a fighter as HHH? No. Is it because Bruce Lee lost the role of Caine in Kung Fu to a guy that isn't even Chinese? No.

If you want to get under the skin of a Chinese guy, you're going to shout out, "Hey Bruce Lee!" because Bruce Lee has no sense of humor. The guy with no sense of humor will make sillier noises as he kicks your ass. Match goes to Lee.

It's mean streets if you're a Chinese guy named Bruce with no sense of humor.

Guys, let us be honest here and look at the facts. Yes HHH is one of the most fighting entertainers in the world and can really make impressive predigree moves look painful when they are actually quite harmless like no one else in movies today. To learn this we just have to watch the behind-the-scenes look at his pratice rigs with his friends (Who happen to become his "hated" opponent in the rings). But is all truth, the match would go to Bruce Lee. To prove this, I will state facts.

Fact: Bruce could punch and kick faster than the shutter speed of a motion picture camera. The camera speed is 24 frames of film per second. Bruce could literaly strike an opponent 'between' frames of film. Directors were constently telling him to slow down. Even when the filmed his attacks in slow motion, his body was a blur of motion and power.

Fact: Bruce could strike an opponent with a power that acknowleged martial arts masters such as Grandmaster Pan Ching Fu and Sifu Shi Youn Ming. can not match (and Pan is known as the Iron fist). Jujitsu Grandmaster Wally Jay attested to watching Bruce, from a standing position,kick a 300 pound body bag into a celling 7 to 8 ft off the ground (Remember that Bruce was only 5ft 4in and weighed about 135 pounds. Secondly, Bruce's hit's were so powerful that the actualy sent shockwaves though the water found in the human body (humans bodies contain close to 75% water). Put simply, the body would collapse.

Fact: Bruce is also, to date, the only one to successfully pull off the most coolest, badass fighting move known in all time: The One-Inch Punch. By summoning up chi energy in his fist, Bruce was able to blast his opponent across the room by just hitting him from a distance of ONE INCH! Let me illustrate this:

Bruce Lee's Fist |--One Inch--| Target And Bruce blew him away!!! That guy on the recieving end was a a judo expert heavier than Bruce, flew backwards, hit a wall and fall down NOTE: This was NOT in a movie, this was in a fighting exposition.

Fact: Unless his life or that of his family was threated, Bruce would rarely fight. Rather he would talk or joke his way out of a fight. He would often stop an opponent that was trying to attack him by pointing out any mistakes he made in their attack and would show them how to do it properly. How does this help? Unlike certain people who get into bar fights and then get beaten, this shows our character here takes life seriously and is not too humble to keep his powers under restraint. True masters have powerful disipline.

Was Bruce Lee unbeatable? Bruce himself would have told that he was far from the perfect fighter and that he could be beaten. But in this case, and I am positive that HHH would agree, the match would go to the Dragon.

As for Jacky Chan, he wasn't all that a great martial artist, he was after all, just a stunt man, abbet, a very clever one, be able to use anything, and I mean anything found in the urban enviroment as a weapon. If this match had taken place in a hardware store or a backalley cluttered with junk I'd have gone with Jackie Chan. Only MacGyver is more dangerous in a hardware store than him and that's because he could be a nuclear arsenal in there. In that case, HHH will find him arms constantly trapped within the rugs of a cleverly thrown and placed ladder or some tangley piece of furniture, himself slipping on marbles on the floor, dodging flying paincans launched by hardcover books, find himself constantly fustrated behind a chair that is kept being kicked in front of him, wondering why the heck he is juggling glass bottles of thinner, finding it extremely hard to grapple Chan due to expert hand work with a flimsly stool, finding himself constantly bonked on the head when he is tricked into chasing Chan into something hard and unrelenting, stepping on nails, dodging improvised chainsaws (which are actually hacksaw blades running on the motor of the convient lathe), trying to get expertly trust newspapers out of his eyes, tripping on a broomstick that was somehow wedged between his limbs and so on and so forth. He won't even have the time to grapple.

And if you are still stubbornly believing that HHH can even have a wisper of hope in prevailing, I give you three words to destroy your case: Huang Fei Hong.

Don't know him? No wonder you like HHH.
from Scott C., age 14, Midland, MI, USA; September 5, 2001


Hey everyone, I've been gone for a while, but I've gotta tell you.. This board has become pretty hillarious in my absence. Now with that said, where to begin...

To the Triple H groupie, personally I never had much respect for the guy, (or any other wrestler for that matter) but he showed everyone that he at least has guts after finishing a match against Jericho with a tron calf muscle. Which is the only real accomplishment that wasn't obviously scripted out that I've seen ever take place in the WWF. But get serious.. Triple H beating a T-Rex? Come on now.. That's boardering on insanity. It would be like a demented T-Rex groupie saying T-Rex could beat a Battleship. (Even thought it has been proven in an earlier thread that T-Rex could destroy the Death Star. heh, j/k. Anyone catch the T-Rex Vs. Darth Vader scene from Indian in the Cupboard?)

What in the world could a wrestler even DO to a six ton plus animal? Stick it in the eye? Triple H is an entertainer, and possibly (I say possibly because I personally know of no proof) that he is a somewhat adept athelte. But literally, what could he DO to a T-Rex? And no, high knee, pedigree, or any other wrestling move isn't even really an option. The only result that could come from even a well built human knee slamming into a T-Rex with any kind of decent force is the knee breaking apart. (I give triple H credit, but his legs aren't the best in the buisness.. Look at how easily he was injured when he simply performed a move incorecctly.)

As for the Pedigree.. forget about it. If he could even jump some twenty plus feet in the air (if he could he would be a basketball player instead and make way more money) to reach T-Rex's head, do you honestly think he could force it towards the ground? If faced even with a four ton, crazed African elephant, the Game would do what any other SANE human being would do. And that's run for his life as fast as his legs will carry him.

Now, moving onto some things that aren't absolutely ludicrous to even discuss... I found the Spinosaurus story written by Bob earlier to be fairly laughable. I fail to see how people not only continue to insist on incorecct jaw strengths for Spinosaurus, but also fail to realize that a T-Rex bite will destroy a Spinosaurus. (And any other living thing that was unlucky enough to receive one of these on flesh) You would think that by now they would learn to stop letting T-Rex get in bites. First Velociraptor, then Spinosaurus, then Giganotosaurus.. And now even Triple H? Ugh.. Who will be next? Steve Irwin?
from USEN, age 20, ?, ?, USA; September 5, 2001


Just when you thought ... was the dumbest possible person ever to speak in this forum, along comes this HHH fan that keeps changing to all the dumb wrestling-related names (which sould silly by the way). Come on! HHH isn't even a tenth of what you see on TV, Pee Wee Herman or Mr. Rodgers could beat him anyday!
from Tom, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Vince, used to be known as HHH or Ross here, I'm afraid your points indicate a great flaw in the understanding of how reality works.

"Even if he could somehow get a punch or kick in, Kurt wouldn't even feel it."

This is extremely unlikely, Lee could actually put a L- shape bend into a metal bar 2 inches thick. Unless Kurt can wistand Ostriches kicking him, he's going to be in a world of hurt. Besides, martial arts don't concentrate on simply striking the opponent, they concentrate mainly on hiting him where he's the softest and weakest, the eyes, neck, limb joints, pressure points, groin...

"Bruce Lee was just a movie-boy."

This is very untrue, he was actually a dedicated matrtial arts exponent who happened to choose flim as a form of expressing his art. Off screen, he was formidible. He wasn't an actor who could fight, he was a fighter who could act. Of course, a simple movie boy would not be able to do chi-punches which could injure opponents without even touching them, kick 120 kilo punching bags thrown at him back three meters, put a bend in wrought iron bars, kick faster than camera shutter speeds, punch through 2-inch wood planes in a single blow, do dropkicks that can propel people back twenty feet, do immobiblise touches that could paralyze you by simply touching your acuipoints lightly, and the most dangerous death touch, in which simply by striking certain areas in the chest and neck rightly, would induce immediate unconsciousness, followed by certain death if remedial measures were not taken within two minutes, all this off camera and unplugged, and not in the movies. Gee, this sounds a lot like a movie boy. A ankle lock is a lot more dangerous.

Chances are, Kurt won't even know what hit him.

"Kurt actually went out and did something. Won a gold medal, amatuer championships and the WWF title."

You must remember that back then, there wasn't even the WWF, and being an asian, he was discriminated against back then and prevented by the government from doing anything too much that would impact too greatly on the wester worldview. Heck, there were no martial arts competitions back then! Lee was the one to introduce matrial arts itself to the states, and started the entire ball rolling. That is bigger than a gold medal and a WWF title. He wasn't even american just for your information.

" I've never seen a martial artist beat a wrestler in a mixed martial arts competition. Ever. Period. Enough said. "

If you do happen to see one martial artist beat a wrestle in a competition, chances are, the wrestler would be seriously wounded or dead. Martial arts are purely no-nonsense forms of combat that were designed to kill. I mean training dicates if some guy tries to grapple you with his arms, you usually have to do funny things to it and break or dislocate it, something which you can't do in a competition. The martial artists working in these competitions have to restrict themselves heavily to less-violent moves, which involve a few kicks and punches that are a not even a tenth of what they are capable off. If they brought out the entire art, and I mean all joint-strikes and acupi-point blows, eye gouge,finger breakers and so, your wrestler would be lying on the floor convulsing from overfiring nerve synapses and dislocated limbs. All a wrestler has to do is to pin the guy down, ohh, hard. If you are talking about the REAL world outside the wide world of sports, world of hurt for the wrestler.

"He's know for being able to take ungodly amounts of punishment. he once tore his quad (the big muscle in your leg) and still finished the match... including giving wrestler Chris Jericho a pedigree. the tear was later discovered to be 12 inches long! "

That reminds me, the injury was steroid abuse related. Gee, some hero you got there... and aren't you trying to argue that he could beat T-Rex? How just how can he survive getting half of his torso bitten off? A 12-inch tear is a nick by compairism.
from Tom, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


(This post actually has the topic of dinosaurs in it)

I used to learn wrestling and also martial arts like Akido. And from my prespective on these two methods of fighting, I can tell you the matrial artist will edge out a true wrestler in any real, no-holds-barred fight. I am a big wrestling fan, and stop insulting WWF! But I will be honest, actually, when it comes to REAL fighting ability, your record in the ring don't mean a thing.

I don't know that much about Bruce, but I do know enough to know that he is the hero of the asian people. It was him that broke down racial prejudices against asians in america by his special way of communication, and he dedicated his life to helping people, not proving he was the best. He was humble, and most importantly of all, did not believe in having to hurt others in order to win. That's why you don't see the good or best martial artists fight in the ring at all, it's severly discouraged by their disipline. Even martial artists in the ring have to limit themselves from doing most of their moves, for if they actually went all out, the results would be fatal. The intention of martial arts was not strictly not for display, but it was actually a method of killing other humans as quickly and brutally as possible. It's hardly something that you can really display all out in a ring, not unless you want to go postal and kill your opponent. The ring is after all, simply an area of ritualized combat with rules to avoid serious injury to the people taking part. But in a backalley and when anything goes, the martial artist will be going all out to kill his opponent, and that is very bad if the opponent has no such training in non-ritualized combat. Wrestling is a form of ritualized combat and contest, designed to mimize damage to both sides, but martial arts were designed to apply in situtation where you have, as a last resort, to really hurt people.

To find out how this applies, lets put this to a fight between Bruce and Kurt Angle in a ring. Firstly, this fight is unlikely as Bruce is not the type to fight simply for a contest. But Kurt will almost certianly win as Bruce will not be allowed to hurt him, as this is just a game. He can't go all out to kill, and he is severly limited by that. So Kurt Angle could pin him down and win the fight, and Bruce cannot do anything for the move he would have used in that situtation will kill his opponent. Kurt Angle excelled at a sport, and he would beat Bruce at that, but when it comes to killing, Bruce will have a massive advantage.

But lets say the two are fighting to kill, that will be a very bad thing for Kurt. Bruce can kick faster than the eye can see and he can actually propel 300 pounds with a kick 8 feet back. This is not the slow way you move a weight by a bench press, but the rapid way you move a mass via a kick. Such a powerful and fast kick will actually propel 250 pound Kurt back without even him having a chance to block or catch the incoming foot, (Bruce kicks two times faster than the typical human reaction time of 20 milliseconds). If the kick landed on a limb, like an arm or a leg, it would be certainly broken. Worse, Bruce can not only kick, he can kick were he wants to. Which in this case would be aimed for the neck or some area that would kill instantly, going by the force of the kick. And that's just the kicking. He had other styles that would kill a human instantly and rapidly. That's the reason why he refuses to fight unless it was absolutely necessary, he can easily kill and he knows that. And sheer strenght and brute force can be a drawback if the person is untrained. Aikido, which is a soft martial art, actually focuses mainly on turning your opponent's strength and brute force against himself via a clever use of physics. The stronger the oppoenent is, the more he hurts himself. So thought Kurt Angle may be immenesly strong and powerful, it could be a disadvantage towards him when he faces of against a person eqquiped with Aikido. From what I know, Bruce's style also involved some Aikido, so this would negate Kurt Angle's advantages in strength or speed. Silat (Which Honkie mentioned) also uses this to an extent, it was a matrial art designed specifically for taking down opponents much larger and more powerful than you, but I believe Silat is more dirty as it was a pure, no-show martial skill that involved the use of weapons. Kurt Angle is out of his turf when it comes to killing, he could snap a neck or beat someone to death if he wanted with his brute force, but when he's up against people who are specifially trained to kill with their bodies, he's going to be in big trouble. How can he grapple after all? When both of his arms are broken by a vicious twist move than worked on thwe elbow joint? That's a move you can't do in a wrestling ring, but when it comes to a real fight, you could do it, and that's what matters. And I think Kurt Angle knows this. He is a warrior of the ring, an area of ritualized combat. Bruce was a warrior of low-down, bottom-line, no-holds-barred, hit-below-the-belt combat. If there are no rules involved, like in a real fight, Kurt Angle will lose, or worse, be killed.

On HHH vs. T.Rex. I like HHH, and I think he'll kick the Rocks' butt. But isn't a 14,000 pound T.Rex too much for HHH? It's rather stupid to say that HHH would have an advantage against T.Rex because he could benchpress 400 pounds and had stronger arms. Firstly this is not true as T.Rex arms are powerfully muscled and could lift more than 600 pounds, easily, and secondly, T.Rex didn't attack with his arms at all! And the idea that he was a scavenger and would not know how to handle agression is also pretty moot, for the idea that T.Rex is a scavenger is certianly wrong, and even so, he would be a wild animal and would be extremely dangerous when provoked! Even vultures will be extremely vicious and mean when you disturb them! (I saw a clip of them attacking and seriously wounding a jackal when it tried to steal their scavenge) T.Rex agression has also been proven by finding injuries caused by fierce fights between T.Rexes, whatever it was, T.Rex was a very dangerous animal! Heck, just about any big wild animal is dangerous.

And I come to my next point, lets be realistic here, if he's engaging T.Rex unarmed, how the heck is he going to hurt the T.Rex? Could be punch it? Could he kick it? Sure, but how much is that actually going to hurt an 6-ton animal? Just go to the zoo and see if you can knock out an elehant with a punch. In fact, the T.Rex is just so big and massive that HHH or Kurt Angle or any human on his planet could strike away at him all day and not make an impression. Heck, the max HHH could bench press was what? 600 pounds? But how is that even going to bluge the 14,000 pound T.Rex an inch? Could be pedrigee the T.Rex? How can he choke-slam or do any of those cool moves on such an massive animal? On the other hand, I can easily imagine how T.Rex could hurt HHH badly. T.Rex could sideswipe him, ram him, kick him, step on him, or bite him, all of which HHH is not going to survive even one hit. Please, HHH is unbeatable facing humans, but not a T.Rex, the ultimate land carnivore. Could HHH lose a hand-to-hand fight to a small lab rat? No? Same way T.Rex is not going lose an unarmed combat fight with HHH. Plezzee, T.Rex was the HHH/Bruce Lee/Huang Fei Hong (whoever that is)/Mr Badass of the dinosaur world.

Ok, let's leave T.Rex out of the picture. Could HHH or Kurt Angle even win a unarmed fight against a Silverback Gorilla? Trained Silverbacks can easily lift 1,300 pounds, yes lift, not bench press slowly but lift it up easily. And these are just the medium sized ones. Can HHH or Kurt Angle even beat your typical Silverback, let alone the best? I think not. Let alone a 14,000 pound Tyrannosaurus rex. I'm a big fan of these wrestler cooldudes, but please don't make them look lame by pitting them against something way out of their league. And this happens to be Dinosaur talk, why don't you carry your statements to WWF
from Jasse H, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Okay, here's a few of the fights that Kurt Angle would definitely lose, at least if he was in a REAL fight, not in the ring.

Kurt Angle vs. Bruce Lee(in a sawmill):Kurt Angle tries a really stupid wrestling move, which dosen't even work. Bruce Lee does one of his chi punches, and knocks Kurt 20 feet into a wood cutting machine. Bruce Lee in 5 seconds.

Kurt Angle vs. Jackie Chan(in a "Home Depot"):Kurt Angle jumps at Jackie, but Jackie runs to a display of saw blades. Jackie grabs them and throws them at Kurt. Kurt does a wierd little dance as he tries to dodge the saw blades, and then Jackie Chan activates a chainsaw. Jackie drops it and it goes across the floor toward Kurt. He tries to run, stumbles, and falls on his face. Jackie, meanwhile, finds a bunch of hammers, and he throws them, one by one, at Kurt's head. Most of them hit, and Kurt is badly hurt. Jackie Chan.

Kurt Angle vs. Silverback Gorilla(in the jungle):Kurt gets close to the gorilla, punches it, and is ripped in half. Silverback.

Kurt Angle vs. Utahraptor(anywhere):Kurt Angle gets close to the utahraptor and tries to punch it, but the utahraptor dodges it. The utahraptor disembowels Kurt and eats him. Utahraptor.

Kurt Angle vs. T-rex:Kurt wets his pants and tries to run away, but T-rex easily catches up and bites him in half. T-rex.
from Super Mario, age ?, ?, ?, Mushroom Kingdom; September 5, 2001


"what world title did he hold?"

Don't be stupid, there were no relevant world titles for him to hold back then. You silly mei gour guei (American fools) didn't even know what "Kung Fu" was back than.
from Fu Fu Chicken, age 19, ?, Hong Kong, China; September 5, 2001


I don't care much for dinosaurs and wrestling, but I'll go for who ever is associated with cooler things?

Let's see, HHH:

"H" is a great letter for bringing you loser concepts like Hopless, Har Har Har, Helpless, Hilda the Red Fox...

Let's see T-Rex.

"T" has great concepts! Terminator, Mr.T (helluva tough!), Tyrant King, Totally!

I think I pick T-Rex.

Today's eposide was brought to you by the letters, H, I, G, T, D, or HHH Is Going To Die. Thank you.
from Emar for the socailly maladjusted, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


If history serves, HHH began wrestling with WCW in 1994 as a snobby wrestler known as Jean Paul-Levesque. HHH was very unhappy in WCW due to his LACK OF WINS. He left to the WWF when he decided that the WCW was enough. From what I can see, WCW tends to have more real stuff and the winner is not predetermined, while the WWF is entirely faked, with the people getting injured only when they do a predetermined moved wrongly, even the winners/losers are predetermined, with the wrestlers acting out a storyline of fake feuds and grudges.

Even though wrestling is hardly what we can call real, the fact reamins that HHH failed to cut it when there was some reality involved (whatever little of it). My guess is, he's going to be extremely unhappy with his lack of wins in the real world, where Bruce Lee fights. Let's not even mention T-rex.

Hmm...
from Joshee the Historian, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Bruce in 15 seconds.

As an experienced Martial Artist (8 yrs of training, Black Belt in Kenpo, Kungfu and Jiu Jitsu, Green Belt in Tae Kwon Do), I can tell you that HHH's Supposedly Painful Moves are phonier than a three dollar bill.

Here's how it'll go:

HHH gets the first shot off, like you said. Bruce slowly wipes the blood off his lip and says "That's nice try, but let me show you how a REAL man fight." in his trademarked chinese acent.

HHH, powered by The Rage (TM) launches into one of his patented Charging-Grappeling-Pedigreeing-Slamming-Finishing moves. This seals HHH's Fate for two reasons:

1. Without the aid of camera trickery, and the standard WWF issue micophone-enhanced, shock absorbing wrestling ring to add the "Boom! Boom!" effects, the Pedigree will have no power, take forever, and look ridiculous to boot. Bruce will see the Pedigree coming, go get a cup of coffee, read through the morning paper, do some stretching to warm up, and then come back and stop the attack.

2. Bruce is a master of Jeet Kuan Do, a Martial Art that involves "soft" style. This means he can use an opponents strength and momentum against them. This means he can turn HHH's RAGE (TM) against him.

As HHH comes charging in like a truck in the terminal phase of his Pedigree, Seagal simultaneously parries HHH's head and strikes HHH's ludicrously exposed groin (Note: A move like the Pedigree exposes the groin to attack). HHH, his momentum drastically shifted, flies awkwardly into the wall and crumples into the wall.

Bruce straightens his tie, makes sure his hair is alright, and walks over to HHH, who is standing, though barely. HHH, seeing failure imminent, throws one final punch. Bruce blocks the punch, whips HHH around in a circle, and throws an elbow strike which snaps HHH's overbuilt arm like a twig.

As if thats' not enough, Bruce then uses the jagged piece of bone protruding from HHH's arm to stab The Professional Wrestler in the chest. Bruce then simply grabs HHH's shoulders and throws him through the large window in the back of the office.

Thinking it's over, Bruce walks to the edge and looks over. HHH's good arm whips up and grabs his ankle. Bruce looks calmly down at him, gets ready his Fist Of Fury (TM), says "Look what you done, you got blood on my favorite shoe, I will kill you until you die from it", and promptly punches HHH in the head, blasting a fist-sized hole in his skull and blowing his brains out.

So you see, it doesn't matter who's the bigger "movie boy" (neither could act if their life depended on it), since HHH won't survive the first test anyway.
from Ajota, age 15, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


As a med. student, I think Bruce will beat Angle in a streetbrawl, why? Because Angle is trained in applying power over time, he trained mostly developing slow twitch muscles that give out more power over a longer period of time, good for doing benchpresses and overwhelming your opponent. Bruce on the other hand, trained almost entirely on fast-twitch muscles and could put out immense ammounts of power for a short period of time, as opposed to applying more power over a longer period of time. So what happens is that in the long run Angle is stronger, but in the short run Bruce is putting out much more force than he can. And that matters if you are going for powerful punches. I read that Bruce could cave in 2 inch steel rods with a punch, if I studied my biology well, human muscle and bone are about 230 times weaker structuarlly than carbonized ferrite. So unless Angle has to have a minimum of at least 460 inches of muscle and mass thickness to absord a punch that powerful, my guess is, Angle's arms or torso don't come anywhere near that thick, and he's going to end up with something broken everytime Bruce hits him with one of those punches. In fact, if Bruce punched him in the sternum at that force, the force of the hit will cause his heart to stop or worse, rupture his arota. I've only known of one case of somebody survivng such an injury. Let's see, Bruce could also break Angle's layrax and kill him rather quick. I'm not sure about the Chi punch, and I don't think it works, but the bottom line is, Bruce had more than what it takes to kill, and I mean kill, not knock out Angle. In a wrestlign ring I'm not so sure, Bruce will not be allowed to kill Angle or break any of his body parts, so my guess is, Angle would win. But from a neutral standpoitn of view, I do know enough about Bruce and all the others you mentioned to know that he's the best of them all. He wasn't simply a good streetbrawler, he was a master. On the death touch, medically, we define it was the over-stimulation of certian vital nerves in the neck and chest that could be potentially life-threatening by disturbing heart and respiratory functions. And I've heard on one or two cases when we have some guy who died after taking a single hit to such areas, not by martial artists, but in a simple fight between two people. Normally, the odds of hitting such nerves by pure chance are quite unlikely, but somebody who trained to hit these spots with the right pressure and force could, medically speaking, invoke such an adverse reaction from his victim. The death touch is medically possible. So don't go around hitting your friends in the neck just to "test" it out, it could be potentially dangerous. If this is the case, and if Bruce really wanted to kill Angle, he had the ways and means to do such a thing, and it would be a short fight indeed, not a fair one, but still a fight. Medically speaking, Angle's moves and that of wrestlers in general are not designed to kill, but rather to be extremely powerful as to give them the most advangtage in winning a match in the ring. The moves of Bruce however, are designed with the intention to harm. Angle may know how to hurt a human beign generally by hitting and punching him, but if it came to killing Bruce will have the advantage, and a big one at that. It's really like saying the art of sumo wrestling would stand up well against a katana-wielding ninja. In a ring where the ninja is not supposed to kill the sumo wreslter mabye, but in a do-or-die situtation? I'd say the ninja. Same here with Bruce and Angle.

And doing moves at five hundreds of a second is extremely fast for humans, even the best martial artists of today best at ten to eleven, so Bruce is still twice as fast. The typical reaction time of wrestlers is much slower at twenty to fifty. At least, Bruce would be four times as fast and reactive as anything Angle could throw out. Meaning Bruce would react and free himself even before Angle can give the command to close his fingers and grab him. In fact, a reaction time of five hundreds of a second is amazing, it would be almost impossible to hit such an opponent. Even magicans who do their amazing faster-than-eye tricks are slower by 35 percent. (They adverage seven seconds). Angle would have quite a bit of trouble trying to hit or grab Bruce, and worse, defend himself from hits aimed at his vital areas. He won't even have the chance to defend his crotch. And I'm saying this fairly, from the point of view of somebody measuring up these two people. Heck, I didn't even know who Bruce Lee was until all this crapola came up and I decided to check up on this guy. I was already familar with HHH and Kurt Angle than, and now I'm convinced they're in for a trashing.

I'm going to invoke reactions, but I confirm the T.Rex fans' statements about HHH getting beaten up in a bar. If memory serves, I read it somewhere sometime back two years ago. Apparently that other guy hit HHH in the neck just the right way and spot and it knocked him out. I don't know that much about the entire incident (I think it was mentioned in the entertainment magazine "Avar"), but my guess is if it wasn't for that shot, HHH would have clearly won. Lucky guy I guess.

Now about the T.Rex vs. HHH thing. I'm sorry, but from my understanding and study of human anatomy and limits, I doubt there would be any way for HHH to take on T.Rex physically and win. HHH can be physically considered a "Throphy" specimen for the homo sapiens, but even our best in terms of physical ability are quite weak compaired to the animal kingdom. And T.Rex would win this wuite easily, and prehaps make a Trophy out of HHH?
from Godpapa, age 23, Bangadesh, ?, Pakistan; September 5, 2001


i think the whole hhh (note smaller case) vs bruce lee thing is crap. i normally would'nt bother responding to crap but dang u guys man ya'll don't even make valid arguements. hhh dont stand a peanut against my grandma. he'd prolly die of exhaustion before he even got outta the ring thanx to his natural insulation or should i say excess baggage? i dont know much bout lee either but i know martial arts myself and speed and agility sets lee apart from the rest. hhh's sheer sheer size would have been good for sumo wrestling but then again lee could have avoided any locomotive coming his way with a side step.it takes talent to fight with that speed on and off screen but it just takes a whole lotta dung to pretend to wrestle and threaten each other in the ring when they prolly go out for a drink in the same bar after that.hhh isn't even a name... what is he that ashamed to even mention his real name?bruce has the guts to put his real name down coz he knows he's good...hhh? i think NOT~! prolly too ashamed i'd reckon eh? just think battle of hhh vs lee like an elephant vs a monkey.. monkey's are much more agile while elephants? thump thump thump...wow...scary... wtf's a pedigree anyway?...by the time the freaking hulk gets into position lee would have knocked his blubber to the triassic period.lee's dead and a legend when hhh is dead(which might be soon...heartburn tsk tsk) we'll see if he's a legend or the lastest addition to sumo weekly.and if not for lee, fighting with fists or bodies in the western countries would be unknown so ya your welcome on the part of the chinese. it's been proven that the wwf or what ever f is just a big act to entertain couch potatoes with nothing better to do then watch fat guys dance and shout at each other in a square box.(how fun) martial arts however require discipline while training and discipline while fighting.it may look fake to the critical but it in fact is very real.it makes the person who studies that art a human weapon.i really don't know if you're stoned or just stupid but hhh vs t-rex>>>???? duh t-rex and as much as i would love to slap the sense into you but shit splaters.
;)

from charmaine, age :p, -= ? =-, asia, singapore; September 5, 2001


I think the evidence speaks for itself, the personal accounts of friends, partners, video-evidence, and the way he was remembered by people points towards Bruce being the best fighter of his time. Just ask around about Bruce to anybody who knows martial arts history well and try telling him that he was just a movie boy. And if I remember correctly, back in the 1950s the only "fighting" sports were boxing and real wrestling (the bland, olympic version, no funny costumes and moves) in america, there was no WWF or martial arts back then. So riddle me, how could Bruce Lee win or hold a title when back then there was none?

The answer is it's not possible.

Let's look at what he's done. Bruce Lee, is the person who introduced martial arts to america. He was the only one who was willing to teach non-chinese the art, thus spreading it in america. He was the original, and simply go around the net searching up about him and you will find out that he is anything but only an actor. Heck, HHH fan, you know so little about anything you argue against it just shows you pitiful knowledge and pure arrogrance, complatence and contemp for anything outside that may threaten your worldview. I think you are like the only moron here saying Bruce was a movie boy while the rest say he was the best. So riddle me, how can you be right?

The answer is, you are wrong.
from Peter, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


Poor HHH fan, you are simply repeating yourself, after your repeated points have been defeated. I'm sorry, but repeated defeated points still don't work any better. Go to the internet and search up about Bruce Lee, I do not know much about him, but I can tell he's better than any of the Byong Yu or Benny you mentioned. Bruce seems to be a much bigger badass than HHH. I think HHH is only going to die badly, without putting up much of a fight. And don't be stupid, the reason Bruce Lee never held any titles was because there was no such competition back than! You're unreasonable and stupid, like a buzzard, heck even buzzards are smarter! Besides, I don't see how asking T-Rex fans to come up with an article changes the fact that HHH is going to die badly against a T-Rex.

Don't bother to reply, your lies have been exposed, you have been debunked, HHH looks bad because of you. I'm going to read a book.
from Benny "HHH Killer" Urquidez, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 5, 2001


One on one... a rhinoceros bull would beat a T.Rex.
from Paul, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 4, 2001


Anyone that thinks Bruce Lee was a legit fighter are deluding themselves.

There is no doubt that Bruce Lee was more than an actor, in fact he was an amazing athlete and gymnast and a fine martial artist. Now, With that being said, riddle me this... "what world title did he hold?"

The answer is none.

A better small fighter that did compete against heavyweights and win in those days of real full contact Karate was the incomprible Byong Yu (5ft 6in 150 pounds) but he in the end found that despite his amazing ability he got knocked out by Joe Lewis and Monster Man 'Eddie Erverette' and never took the world title.

An even better small fighter was Benny The Jet Urquidez who did take the world heavyweight full contact title at a height of about 5ft6 or 7 and a weight of 165 pounds.The jet was amazing but even he states the **axiom of fighting**.... "if all things are equal a good big man will beat a good little one"

Chuck Norris would have mopped up the ring with bruce lee as well.

Think that Bruce lee could have ever beaten Bill 'Super foot' Wallace? Or Brad Hefton? Not a chance.

Bruce lee never fought any of those guys because he would have ended up as a little fighter beaten by better little fighters and would have taken the full count in a horrizontal position down and out for good. The Korean Master and full contact fighter Buong yu challenged Bruce Lee many times and Lee refused.

Bruce Lee perhaps could have been a great lightweight KO Karate fighter that MIGHT have been able to rumble with some middelweights and (possibly) a few light heavies in the ring but to say that he was one of the greatest fighters of the 20th century is a load of garbage.

Mr Lee was a great teacher, thinker, artist, actor, chacha dancer and coreographer but he was never a professional fighter and never took a full contact title.

He did however develop Jeet Kun do which is a practical collection of applying many different martial arts to street situations. In many ways what he created is not unlike the very practical forms of ED Parkers Kempo and Doshin so's Shorinji Kempo.

About that one inch punch... well, I gotta tell ya pal, Bruce couldntt have knocked the wind out of Chuck Norris with it. Or HHH, or whoever. If anyone really believes all the Bruce Lee hype, I have a suggestion for them, read lots of comic books and be sure to order the 'Dim Mak' Death Touch via a vibrating palm book that is often sold in the back pages of those fine perodicals along with stink bombs, x ray glasses,and plans for an antigravity engine.

My final point: To apply pure fantasy to Bruce lee is to demean the true greatness of his character and skills he was a great martial artist, Teacher, and thinker but he NEVER proved that he was even a good fighter in the KO karate ring. His speed and and coordination were fantastic and in a street fight he could and was very adept at pummeling larger slower less well trained opponents. But his powress in the ring is unknown hence the title of worlds greatest fighter is a joke.

Want to read about a fighter that just might fill the bill as the greatest martial artist ~pound for pound~ of the 20th century
check out Benny "The Jet" Urquidez.

But even he would tell you- an accomplished grappler, such as Kurt Angle or HHH, will beat a martial artist ~every time~, esp. a much smaller one such as Bruce Lee.

And.... Hmmm....

Hmmm.... Bruce Lee vs the worlds greatest freestyle wrestler and gold medalist Kurt Angle.... Lee wouldn't have a chance. He'd be screaming in pain from an ankle-lock in 2 seconds. Even if he could somehow get a punch or kick in, Kurt wouldn't even feel it. Bruce Lee was just a movie-boy. Kurt actually went out and did something. Won a gold medal, amatuer championships and the WWF title.

I've never seen a martial artist beat a wrestler in a mixed martial arts competition. Ever. Period. Enough said.

And HHH could probaly beat Angle. He's not as quick but he's far stronger (he has a bench press of 700 pounds.... the world record is 800 and something) and has a whole arsenal of moves. He is a multiple time amatuer wrestling champ, the pinical of "real" wrestling, in additon to multiple time WWF champ. He's know for being able to take ungodly amounts of punishment. he once tore his quad (the big muscle in your leg) and still finished the match... including giving wrestler Chris Jericho a pedigree. the tear was later discovered to be 12 inches long! the doctor said 99.9% of the population would pass out from such pain. HHH is the game. straight up.

http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-3.jpg (the devasting pedigree)
http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-5.jpg
http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-1.jpg
http://www.triplehgalleries.com/gallery17-2.jpg

Ha Ha. Ross rules. He showed you people that have been monopolizing the board with all the T.Rex garbage. For all of you that don't know, the UFC is "real" fighting were boxers take on sumo who take on martial artists who take on wrestlers etc. etc. You can rent them in any Blockbuster. And yes, wrestlers always win while the "martial artists" do rather poorly. Whill the outcome of WWF matches are indeed "fake" the skills those wrestlers have are very, very real. Kurt Angle won the Olympic Gold Medal in freestyle wrestling while HHH is a national champ. Either would wipe the floor with the tiny Bruce Lee who was about 5 feet tall and 150 pounds and jumped around and kicked for movie cameras. Ha Ha Ha.

The perpetuation of the lie that HHH was in some bar fight shows how desperate T.Rex fans are. That is total fabrication. I would like for a T.Rex fan to post ONE news link that confirms this. But it won't happen as it is a lie. Or maybe T.Rex fans are so dim-witted as to confuse "HBK" with "HHH" ? They're dimwitted enough to like a big buzzard. Just like all the "facts" to "show" how T.Rex would beat Spino etc. are all made up, it's laughbale. T.Rex fans are a joke in the dino community. All they do is lie to help support the big scavenger.

Bruce Lee = a overrated, tiny, movie boy who could kick his little legs for the camera really fast. he could jump too. wow.

Jackie Chan = same as above

Kurt Angle = an Olymipc gold medalist who beat the worlds best

HHH = National amatuer champ, undefeated in the NCCA's

Ken Shamrock = the "worlds most dengerous man", UFC champion

summary.... WFF rules while tiny little martial artists get blown away by size, strength and speed grpplers like Kurt Angle and HHH. Ha Ha Ha.

Honkie Tong, you are the worst T.Rex homer here. All of you guys should start up your own "T.Rex Only" site. And what in the devil are you talking about? Oooooo.... that sounds sooooo bad. Ha Ha. Actually it was sorta funny. Like I said, go rent any mixed martial arts competition video or PPV and see how the wrestlers fare.... they DOMINATE. "Small and graceful", huh? Um, ok. That'll be useful when you're tapping out to a ankle-lock or a arm-bar. Size does matter dude, sorry. That's just life. Only good strikers (e.g. boxers) have done well against wrestlers... when getting a lucky shot in. But an experienced wrestler will take an opponet to the ground immeditly where it will be all over in a matter of seconds.

I suggest people stop talking about things they have no clue about. Want to see what happens when equally high skilled fighters of all disciplines get it on? Rent any UFC or other mixed competition. It's not that hard. Seeing for yourselves should hopefully mean alot more than listening to some people babble on a message board.

Honkie, I enjoyed the "small and graceful" thing... very amusing. It made me think of Royce Gracie... the world-reknown jiu-jitsu master and king of the "small and graceful" camp. He was UFC champ for a while, until he met his first real grappler by the name of Ken Shamrock (now in the WWF and still a MMA competitor) who wiped the floor with him. Gracie has since lost to several other grapplers he's faced. The UFC soon became domianted by grapplers. Ken Shamrock, by the way, has been beat several times by HHH in MMA compitetions.

And I laugh when uneducated non-sport, non-MMA fans dis the WWF... Ken Shamrock has beat every major martial artist there is to beat, yet in the WWF he's only about #5. Kurt Angle being probably the baddest legit fighter in the WWF, then HHH, Al Snow, Rob Van Dam, then Ken Shamrock.

The aquired highley developed skills of Shamrock and HHH are so much more impresssive than the smelling ability and armlessness of the overgrown buzzard T.Rex. I guess it's just sour grapes, huh.

I guess T.Rex fans will continue to make up lies to support their giant scavenger, while people actually looking for truth will seek it out. Not much changes.

ps - Just a even profecient wrestler will beat a top-level martial artist everytime. People that say otherwise.... please explain why in the UFC (where anything but eye-gouging goes i.e. you can break bones etc.) why the wrestlers ALWAYS WIN??? Ken Shamrock, a mid-level WWF guy, whooped up on martial artists multiple times. Including the Gracie brothers, the most respected jiu-jitsu clan in the world. I'm tired of people making stuff up, **video tape doesn't lie**

Wrestlers rule in real fights. Leave the martial arts to the movie boys.
from H. H. Helmsley, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 4, 2001


It is True Spino Was a Fish Eater,And did live in Africa, But he all So could of lived In the San Luis Valley. I mean no flipdy doo Palitalijust looked in My backyard! Oh Yeah Speaking of jurrasic Park three Wasn't Jeff Goldboom A Hunkasourius In that movie????^_^
Sorry:/

from Madison, age 10, San Acacio, Colorado, U.S.A.; September 4, 2001


I dunno that,skeptic!
from another skeptic, age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A. ,and proud of it; September 4, 2001


You gigantsaurus fans are stupid you base your entire arguement on a theory that tyrannosaurus was a scavenger and that is because he is so big. But what about gigantosaurus he is huge to does that mean he is a scavenger I mean wouldnt you be pissed off is some palentologist(jack horner) came up with a theory that gigantosaurus is a scavenger? Jeez and you know tyrannosaurus is more evolved has teeth meant to crush bones and rip out hundreds of pounds of flesh! While gigantosaurus has teeth that would make his opponent bleed to death but he may not get a bite that would necassarilly kill his oppenent while if tyrannosaurus took a bite out of you you would have a ton of pain where ever he bit you or you would just die. FACE IT TYRANNOSAURUS IS MORE EVOLVED THAN ANY OTHER SUPER PREDATOR. HUMANS EVOLVE WITHIN THOUSANDS OF YEARS THAT MEANS THAT TYRANNOSAURUS HAS HAD 30 YEARS TO EVOLVE FROM GIGANTO OR SPINO MAN AND SPINO EATS FREAKING FISH DUDE HE I! S LIKE A CROCODILE NEEDS TWO TO RIP THE VICTIM IN HALF. DANGIT YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK FACE IT TYRANNOSAURUS IS STILL
KING
OF
THE
DINOSAURS
TYRANNOSAURUS IMPERATOR
AND HE IS LARGER STILL YOU CONTINUE YOUR ARGUEMENT "GIGANTOSAURUS IS LARGER" LADYLALALALA
YES SO HIS AVERAGE IS HIGHER SO WHAT WHAT IF I GOT IN A FIGHT WITH A GUY WHO WAS LURPY THAT WAS THREE INCHES LARGER THAN ME????? AND I WAS TOUGH STRONG HUGE MUSCLES AND HE HAD A WEAKER JAW THAN I HE WOULD BITE ME AND I WOULD BITE BACK BUT WITH FLESH INSTEAD OF LITTLE FLESH MOSTLY BLOOD FROM MY OPPENENT IM NOT TARGETING SPINO BECAUSE I KNOW HE IS JUST A BIG FISHEATER THAT SCAVENGES
I HAVE BEEN WATCHING YOU PEOPLE AND I KNOW THAT THE REX FANS ARE BLOWING YOOUR ENTIRE ARGUEMENT ITS LIKE YESTERDAYS GIGGLE IT WAS SO LAME YOU GUYS NEED TO STOP PESTERING THE KING TYRANNOSAURUS AND LEAVE US REX FANS ALONE

from FAN MAN TREX, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 4, 2001


"Even we humans have discarded some things. The amount of hair on our bodies is less than our ancestors."

Probably an adaptation to be more attractive judging from modern human behaviour, though I suspect artifical laser hair removal is interfering with natrual selection...

"Even our teeth, the incisors, are smaller than our relatives the primates."

I'll have to pay attention to my eating habits to see if I really do need incisors for my diet. I didn't use 'em on the chocolate I just ate, interesting. We probably would be reducing the number of teeth, if orthodontists weren't fighting natural selection with a quick fix too. :( Civilization is the end of evolution.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; September 4, 2001


I mis-quoted part of my last post.I forgot who it was that said Humans needed toes to survive and I think I'll send simple posts for now,instead of long ones.
from Gloman, age 2222222223, ?, ?, ?; September 4, 2001


The T-rex wasnt mainly a scaviger(or whatever)...he was built to kill...maby he doesnt have the arms for it but his legs make him a very powerfull hunter...T-rex was litterally made to kill.Spinosaurus may be big.Also T-Rex was the BIGGEST know dinosaur...just becaus the spinosaurus was bigger in the Jp3 movie doesnt mean its bigger in real life..the t-rex in that movie seemed to be at his teen age due to its size.T-Rex measured up to 20 feet tall...spinosaurus wasnt quiet as tall due to its ability to swim,and that my friend is why the T-Rex is the KING of the flesh eaters...
from Rb.p. -itsamario-, age 14, london, Ontario, Canada; September 4, 2001


"Sorry Jason about mis-quoting you. I should have read your message more carefully before attacking it and I apologize whole-heartedly for my mistake. I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to make you look stupid but I was only trying to say that I looked at it differently. Obviously I need to read messages a little more carefully before I attack them. Once again, I'm sorry and I'll think twice before I go around critisizing others points of view."

Thank you very much for apologizing.

"As for Tyrannosaurus being a scavenger, its clear that T-rex was a bone crusher, and bone crushing is usally whats seen in scavengers.
But, Tyrannosaurus was perfectly desinged as a predator, and the reason for its small arms is because the skull gave it all it needs to kill its prey. And with on uses for the arms they grow smaller to subtracted the weight from the front end of the body allowing the head to grow larger through evolution."

The arms are certainly leftovers from a bygone era where arms were useful, but that raises the question, why still have arms? The real question is, did he need them at all? More than likely no, but if that's the case, he had them still because evolutionary wise, he didn't have the time to lose them completley. If dinosaurs had a few extra million years, we would find fossils of Tyrannosaurus rex with no arms at all. Take dogs, for example. They have an extra claw or toe, whicever, that is useless. They are in the process of losing them. Even we humans have discarded some things. The amount of hair on our bodies is less than our ancestors. Even our teeth, the incisors, are smaller than our relatives the primates.

There was an animal that was sea-going but I forget the name, had a tiny flipper near the tail. This was left over from when its ancestors walked on all fours and went into the ocean.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; September 4, 2001


I agree with with Kamui S. We been arguing for more than half a year now. We are almost the only ones here who now. Who started it?!?!?!
from Joe, age 9, ?, ?, USA; September 4, 2001


I dont know why you guys keep posting all this crapola on ZD. You probably are so lost in this you probably dont even know what ZD means. You`ll waist all this year talking. T.Rex and Spino were both
very powerful creatures. I doubt I will EVER come back again. I used to LIKE this website. Thanks 4 nothin.

from Very Mad Joe, age ??????????, ??????????????????????????????, ?????????????????????????????, USA; September 4, 2001


Ugh, if that's any animal that's made to be meaner than it was, it was the Velociraptors.
from Peter, age ?, ?, ?, ?; September 4, 2001


"You are looking at this the wrong way. I said the larger adults wouldn't take the time or trouble to hunt as often as yunger, more active, healthier dinosaurs. Their size alone would be an intimidating sight. This would make it easier to steal from creatures who made fresh kills. "

This is certainly a valid point, Lions do intimidate and steal kills from heynas and vice versa, depending on who has the numbers and strength. But of course, that in no way indicates any of such animal was an obgilate scavenger or such. Personally, I suspect that once the Tyrannosaurs got above a certain size, they had a rather easy lifestlye barging in at a fresh kill made by smaller animals or killing when they deem fit (or are to hungry to wait out a kill). Virtually all of our largest hypercarnivores do this today and there is no reason to suspect why Tyrannosaurus couldn't have done so. Of course, it would be folly to suggest that Tyrannosaurus would have used this method to proqure his meals all the time. I believe this depends all on geography and animal varitey and population distribution factors. In areas where Tyrannosaurus are the dominant predator and the other carnivores were not directly in contest with it for food, Tyrannosaurus would have to do most of the killing by themselves, and the smaller carnivores benifit from scavenging. However in areas where there is prehaps another predator capable of vying with Tyrannosaurus with food, the relationship would be more complex. We would find Tyrannosaurus taking some take-away meals and having to pay for some of them. Of course, sometimes the smaller creatures would in turn wait for the larger ones to make a kill, and later scavenge from it. Pinpointing behaviour can be tricky stuff, it was only until recently did we realise not all lions and heynas behave in the same way in different parts of Africa (so much for the stertypes) It's most likely the feeding behaviour of Tyrannosaurus varied from place to place, based on the relationships and the reactions between different animals. So instead of saying it must have done what, we should be looking at the range of capabilities avaiable to Tyrannosaurus, to determine the range of behaviour it could have preformed. But from what paleontologist have discovered, it certainly wasn't restricted to what Horner said it could do!

"I was talking about the adults not being able to keep up. Yes, I did think they would build nests. Yes, they most likely left their young to hunt. You missed the whole point of my post. If you will look at modern animals that nurture and care for their young, they all have only 1-3 babies, with the exception of a few species. Why? It is too much trouble too take care of any number of offspring higher than that. Many birds, elephants, lions, cheetahs, bears, seals, etc. all have only small numbers of offspring. "

Of course, would depend on if the animal was a r-strategist and k-strategists. Certain animals however, have no problem coping with a sizeable number of offspring and yet caring for them. The ground-dwelling avians of today employ such methods, having broods of 7-10 offspring and caring for them. Even the dinosaur Miasauria took good care of its young. On meat eating dinosaurs, they do seem to pertain towards being r-straegists, having lots of young. Once such Allosaurid nest found contained about 120 eggs, each animal when it was fully grown, would have attained a sizeable mass. Though few made it that far. Tyrannosaurids however, could be employing the K-stragety. A Tyrannosaurid fossizilized egg found was sizeably larger than the eggs of your typical Allosaurid, pointing towards a smaller brood size, and prehaps a more K-stragetic method of reproducing. However, enlightening insight was given into the matter by the discovery of multiple Albertosaurus specimens found together, in a great range of sizes and ages, from very juvinile to full adult, pointing towards a family-structure rather than towards a simple herd structure with no genetic relation between the members. Recent Tyrannosaurus multiple finds also indicate that members of different ages did live together. Though all these findings are by no means settled, the possibility of Tyrannosaurus living in family/related social groups, and caring for their young is quite possible indeed, prehaps mirroring the reproductive behaviour of predatory birds today.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; September 4, 2001


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