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The Test of Time
A Novel by I. MacPenn
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Dino Talk: A Dinosaur Forum

Late December 2000

Heh heh, you guys are still in the 20th century while I'm in the 21st century, but I expect you people to join us soon.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 31, 2000

It is finally almost the new millinium. People here were saying it was the the new milinium.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 31, 2000

Hello everybody! All of us here in Singapore want to wish you a happy new year! It's already the 21st century and the new millennium here in Singapore! I know you people are still a little behind us, but hang on in there, you'll be there soon! But as of now, 2.26 am my local time, Jan 1, 2001, we are still a century and a millennium apart.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, Singapore, Singapore, Singapore; December 31, 2000

JC, did you get the first chapter of the Raxal vs. Raptor novel I'm starting?

P.S. Please respond.
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 31, 2000
I put it up yesterday (I just forgot to change the date oif last submission on the main page). JC

I am starting a new seson of Dino-show-us. I also have ideas for a novel about a Stegimoloch named Raxal who will do anything to get rid of a very anoying Utahraptor using the powers of science. It will be called Raxal vs. Raptor. It will have lots of little biology, chemistry, logic, and scientific method lessons in it, along the way to distroying Raptor once and for all.
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 30, 2000

I really enjoyed Dino Show Us 4. Its funny. And it tells how important it is to respect each other's holidays and beliefs. I am very proud of Reuben's story and happy that he gets to share them with all of you.
His Dad.

from Debisaur's Husband, age 47, Needham, MA, USA; December 29, 2000

The new Dino-show-us 4 is out. Yonger readers may notice that it has many things similar to Arthur's Perfect Christmas. For example, Sauropo-day-morph=Baxter Day, Bill=Muffy, etc. I hope you like it anyway.
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 29, 2000

Once again we cannot be sure as we know too little about it. However, we do know enough to tell that it's a Tyrannosaurid.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 29, 2000

Has anyone heard anything about T. Imperator? Is it a new species, or just a big Rex?
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 29, 2000

Well, I've edited the latest Old Blood for readibility, go read it.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 28, 2000

I'm sure glad we're in peacetime mode. Well Jeniffer, the reason they are not called unknown creatures is because they simply were not. We know about them. The Loch Ness thingie is an unknown creature, Bigfoot is one too. But we have enought about dinosaurs not to classify them as unknown.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 28, 2000

Well Reuben here is my review:

This movie is about Ally Hayden. She gets left in a museum. While she is there she goes back in time several times. But first her father finds an egg. Ally thinks it is a Tyrannosaurus egg. Her father doesn't agree with her.

When she travels back in time she sees Dromaeosaurs, Iguanodons (I think), a Pteratactyl, and many others. At the end she sees a female Tyrannosaurus. It has some eggs. Then you see a meteor crash into the earth. A great wind makes everything in the museum fly toward you. Ally is back in the museum. Her father finds her and a supposed happy ending unfold. At the end the camera zooms in on the egg. It hatches and out comes a baby Tyrannosaurus.

This movie is in 3D so it was pretty cool at times. To find out more visit:
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 28, 2000

The next Old Blood is out guys, read it.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 28, 2000

Yes Ruben, I do remember Special. At the time I was thinking up new charictars, but none of them sounded good. And the reason I wrote three of them on same day is I had nothing better to do. I have read Dino-Show-Us and it is very original, but there is only so much original things you can do with one set of charictars. I just wanted to do something more original.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 28, 2000

I think that the war here has gone far enough, and I'm glad it's over. In retrospect,I guess it's a strange way to start a net war. We've lost DW and Carchardontosaur, I have preusmed them lost because they have not been posting for a long time. But prehaps the most painfully of all, Brad. I have checked the backlog and discovered he is was the reason for this page being and had been here from the start. I've yet to see a post for him and have prusumed him lost. This is prehaps one of the most painful losses to Zoom Dinosaurs. All because of a fight BBD refused to end. It's a good thing Honkie Tong, Billy Macdraw and a few others are still around. With the losses it too in the bloody month of December this year, what more can it take?
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 28, 2000

JC, this is a suggestion for the 2 bords. If there is a topic that everyone is talking to eatch other, add a link from the bord it is talked about at that leads you to a large convesation thing in the script format that shows what everyones response to eatch other.

P.S. JC, please respond to me.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 28, 2000
It would require a huge change in format . There are a lot of ways to do it. The way most mailing lists do it, each post has its own page (with links to the next and previous thread and the next and previous post in time and by that author), but you can only read one message at a time - I find that approach reeally slow to read. What does everyone think about this. (It would probably take us a while to implement it.) JC

Well, that IMAX movie has been around for quite some time in Singapore. I just haven't gotten around to seeing it.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 28, 2000

Why are dinosaurs called dinosaurs? Why not Un known creachers?
from Jennifer.D., age 10, Lac La Biche, Alberta, Canada; December 28, 2000

Firebird, do you even remember Special used to be stared by Sue and gang? And that you were so crazzy for writing it (I don't know that it is true but I think it is because 3 out of 5 of them were writen on the same day)? If you haven't read Dino-show-us, then I'd like you to know that it is very original for a "Sue and gang" (in fact, "gang" does not show up in it exept one episode that Suzzy is in but minor) story. I am not trying to disapoint you or Honkie Tong.

P.S. Can you revew the IMAX dino film for me?
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 28, 2000

...What's it with people defending raptors? You challenge their cherished ideas about raptordom and they go on "bring it on" mode.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 27, 2000

Actually, Sue and Gang was thought up by Billy Macdraw, and they are his characters. But I guess it was such a good idea until many people had to follow him...
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 27, 2000

Thanks Honkie. I glad you think my stories are oringinal. I just thought I would do something different. Everyone is using Sue and the rest of the gang to much. They will wear them out.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 27, 2000

Did the new IMAX movie just come out there? It has been out forever where I live! I saw it all ready. It is a pretty good movie.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 27, 2000

A new IMAX movie just came out! It is about dinosaurs! And based on the website, I'd think it would have "you are there" naration like BBC's Walking with Dinosaurs so you experiance the world like the people in the movie seeing the dinosaurs! It is called T.Rex: Back to the Cretatious. It is now playing at the Mugar OMNI Theatre at the Museum of Science in Boston. For those who don't know where Boston is, want to see the movie, and it's not playing at your local IMAX place, Boston is in MA and MA is in New England and New England is in the US and you probily know where the US is. For the exact directions to the museum, go to
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 27, 2000

I must admit though, I never knew I had so many Dino Warz fans! Thanks guys, for speaking up for me. Though it was kinda overkill, a overy large amount of firepower to waste on a ten year old.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 27, 2000

Well...I guess we'll get around to talking about dinosaurs sooner or later. But I guess Dino Talk is also for people to discuss other Zoom relater matters like fanfics and irrating personalities.
from Lillian Tay, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 26, 2000

Well, people not talking about dinosaurs here is kinda expected, after opening up a dino science page.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 26, 2000
I'm curious what everyone else thinks. JC

Well, thanks for speaking up for me friends, but I am taking all this rubbish and mud slung at me in my stride. I mean, I didn't take it seriously at the time and I'm not the kind of person to go 'hey, you said I was a failure and look at me now.' I could be the best fanfic writer and many times better than my detractors but totally devoid of personality and just an absolute ass to everyone. I don't think there's any such thing as failure if you're trying, you're not a failure. But I think I annoyed ... too, so I wouldn't like to be vindictive about him because I don't think he meant it badly. Sound familar? hehe. Besides, why sink to his level?
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 25, 2000

I still think DWF is a unbashed, direct insult to Bill. Everybody knows who Mr.B is. I say you should delete the whole part in the voting page and the fanfic page. Notice he decided he wanted to insult Bill directly by calling him an "idiot head" and saying he wants to see how he responds to it.
from Lillian Tay, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 25, 2000
I cannot possibly edit out all characters with common names (like Bill) who say insulting things or have insulting things said to them (or I'd have to edit out of much of the fictional works that are submitted). If there are too many hurt feelings and fights about the fiction pages, I'll just stop them altogether. JC

Well Honkie, I really liked the way you adapted the Corrs into the bios of my character. I know yo did alot of cut and pasting, but the overall effort looks promising. Say, why should you feel you are not good enough? You wrote two Old Bloods remember?
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 25, 2000

Prehaps I wasn't clear, but did Joe Bob just personally insult Bill? JC, can something be done about this?
from Lillian Tay, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 25, 2000
I've edited it. JC

Well Bill, I based your characters on the Corrs as I though they kinda parallel each other, what da ya think? If you don't like it, I can change it or take it away.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 25, 2000

Look Honkie, to give you confidence, you do the next Dino Warz installment.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000

You know something Josh? You are right, you are very right! My goodness! You make all of us look so stupid! Why didn't we think of that?`
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000

This is odd, did somebody send a story called "Sue's end" under Honkie's name or has Honkie gone wack? What's going on JC?
from Lillian Tay, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000

You are correct JC, Honkie and I did not write that piece. Anway, did you have your suspisions at first? I mean, didn't it seem we were writing out of character?
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000
That's why I let you know about it . JC

One thing fanfic writers, I want to post my piece, but you guys are too good! Cardy, your stories are fantastic! Firebird, your stories are very original! And Bill, incredible! You're one of the best Zoom has to offer! I thought you were going to respond with a story full of nothing but personal insults after Joe tried to defame you with DWF, but your response was incredible! It was smartly done and the time computer was a great touch! How do you people do it? Mabye I shoudl stick to drawing instead.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000

Greetings, me and my (shorter) brother send you greetings! Merry Christmas! We Singaporeans are one of the first to celebrate it, you guys will have to wait 16 hours awwwwwwww, *tan zui zui lah!

(*Wait long long)
from Honkie Tong and Short F., age 16,14, Singapore, Singapore, Singapore; December 24, 2000

One thing about this debate bugs me when I think about it. I mean, you people are arguing about the deadilest predator right? So what do predators do? They mainly hunt prey right? Thye rarely fight each other. SO what you should be debating here is who is the deadilest at hunting other prey right? And which animal to a prey is the deadilest? A fast, agile runner packed with knives that could give you nasty cuts in a split second or a fast, agile runner that could do many times the damage in the same amount of time?

Mabye its kinda humanistic to pit one type of predator against another, but thinking about it carefully, it dosen't make much sense at all. We should look at who hunted the deadilest, right?
from Josh, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000

I haven't drawn anything for a long time, but expect some soon. You can't rush art.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000

Good, but don't forget that the fictional raptors could get a full fledged cut in at T.rex also.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000

Good, I see you people are fuinally getting your act together. Don't you find we make more progress when everybody is nice?

Anyway, yes a 4-5 ton raptor would probally inflict a 8 foot cut. But pardon me, I'm quite sure a head on with a T.rex would ahve been fatal for that raptor, so its best plan is to flank it and slash. But then again, how on earth do you find a blind spot on a 6 ton animal on two long legs? That thing could turn on a dime. One more thing. I don't think a 4-5 ton raptor would be able to kick, nor would it be feater than rexy, though it would be quite fast itself. I quite sure rexy would have been able to get a bite in for every 2 or 3 slashes. Given his incredible ability to take a pounding and survive, I guess that ratio would be well within operational conditions for victory. Not to mention he could still do a far larger amount of damage in a bite.

In short I'd like to say that there is no best way of killing. The raptors depended on using many weapons to disable their prey rapidly, but the Tyrannosaurs relyed on using a massive amount of localized damage to allow a one-bite, one-kill. But if you ask me, I reason if you could do about twenty times the damage in one attack then your enemy, why not do it? Instead of wasting energy bouncing around the landscape trying to wear down an animal that moves faster than you and does twenty times the damage in an attack. Different styles of killing I say, but if you are looking for the most deadily, T.rex would win jaws down.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000

I agree BBD, that would have been a very deadily combination, and one of the deadilest. But I guess the raptors wouldn't be able to get a bite or cut in at T.rex as he was also too fast and agile. In the end, bothe dinosaurs would have tired out and went their seperate ways before any blood is shed. But of cause, T.rexes blend of extreme survivability, speed and a powerful overkill bite would have made him the deadilest had things gotten nasty.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 24, 2000

Actually leonard, your talking more of a 4 or 5 ton raptor, being the same height at the hip, and those cuts wouldnt be 3 feet long, since raptors rake their claws, maybe 8 feet, since utahraptor couldve inflicted a 5 ft long cut. Your very very right about the "cuts vs bite", but compared to a raptor that size, T.rex couldnt get a full fledge bite cuz of the speed and bounce/bounding the raptor is commiting around him. Thats all Im trying to say here. Speed with overkill claws blended together is a nasty combination and one of the most deadly.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 23, 2000

Finally! Ah! The topic is done.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 23, 2000

Hello guys? Why didn't my message get through? I said I am joining you guys!
from Josh, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 22, 2000
That topic is DONE. JC

Hi guys, I'm back. Why is everybody so nice? Honkie, have you won?
from Wildcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 22, 2000

I like the jihigasawas
from burt, age 4, norhamton, ?, america; December 22, 2000

Well, I not sure if cuts were really so bad. What's a cut 3 feet long and half a feet deep compaired to a bite that removes a 70kg, 2 feet deep, 4 feet long and 3 feet wide piece of flesh? A raptor would have to get in about 9-12 cuts to break even with a bite. Not to mention T.Rex was faster, and could escape the raptors slashes. I sure T.Rex wasn't so clumsly and slow that he can't get a bite in at a raptor of the same size. You are talking a 6 ton raptor here, a very-hard-to-miss target. It's very unlikely a raptor of such size could escape not been bitten by T.Rex with all his speed and agility and eagle smartness. Not to mention one bite is seriously fatal.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

My sister has spoken, and this is my turn. I'm not very intrested in dinosaurs, but I'd like to say that we are not dinosaurs here so please show some civility.

And by the way, I am not a Tyrannosaurus fan, but I certainly think he is deadiler than a raptor of similar size (though there is no such thing)
from Grace T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

I so agree with what you said Honkie, I think you people do have a good case. I'm with you guys!
from Josh, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

Honkie, I'm not sure if you contuining this debate is a good idea. But I've noticed that BBD has mellowed down. Or is it that his rough posts are not getting through? Like mine?

Anyway, I'd like to say I admire you for you wit and calmness Honkie. You seem to be unfazed by the amount of flack you take debating on such things. I wonder how you do it?
from Lillian T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

from Ty, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

HI! I am a Carnotaurus. My name is Carno. I am new here so I would like to no what is going on. I know firebird, so I'll know what is going on because firebird'll tell me.
from Carno, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

But really BBD, could we not deal with "what if" senairos about this topic, it's hardly scientific. I prefer to use true paleontological models to illustrate my point, shouldn't you? I mean, its hardly valid to say an ant would be deadiler than T.rex had it been the same size.

Onece again, I'm not sure how the raptors can really inflict that much damage. T.rex was no ferrari, but he was fast and agile and certainly very survivable. Also, he had less complications to worry about. All he had to do is to use his superiour speed and agility to stay away and all he needs is to get a single bite in and its over.

The raptor on the other hand has to cut the T.rex many times to bring it down, nto to mention it is slower and not as agile. The raptors are what I would describe as "agile bodies on clumsly legs". The teeter-tooter T.rex had a higher center of gravity, was more unstable, and thus more agile. If you ask me, I think T.rex has everything going for it.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

I donno BBD, but dosen't pound for pound deadilness decrease as you get bigger? I mean a 6 ton raptor certainly will not be able to jump or kick, drastically reducing its effectiveness. A Triceratops the size of a Brachiosaur will not be able to turn and face its enemy in time, or rum away for that matter. If a Gallimimus is simply scaled up to T.rex size, its legs would immediately shatter under the weight. Big animals need special adaptions to survive. We don't see a deer the size of an elephant because it did not have the adaptions nessary for such a size. Yes, pound for pound deadilness reduces with, but T.rex handles it really well, not to mention in the literal sense, he is the deadilest predatory dinosaur.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

I understand BBD, and I'll get there. You see, the reason I think your argument about speed and doging and deep cuts is not correct is because pound for pound, a Tyrannosaurid cound take far more damage than a raptor. Meaning it cound survive and certainly take more hits. Also, a Tyrannosaurid is certainly faster than a raptor of similar size, meaning it could dance away and retreat from attacks at will. Lastly, though deep cuts and gashes can be bad, it is nothing compaired to what a Tyrannosaurid can do. I think somewhere eariler somebody established that the Tyrannosaurids were actually more agile than a raptor of similar size, allowing it to doge attacks.

If you ask me, the Tyrannosaurid's ability to take a hellish punishment and survive, well armed teeth and agility will give it a good edge over a raptor of similar size and make it win the day.

Thank you BBD. I see you have stopped insulting and started talking, that's why I'm answering you.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

You know, for the last time, a raptor the same size would win cuz of such deep cuts and the speed to dodge away. Now THAT arguement has not been touched, just you all saying a small raptor against a t.rex, which I didnt say.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

Im talking to you DW, no one else, do you have an answer to back up that T.rex is the most deadly dinosaur ever pound for pound(which means if all dinosaurs were the same size exactly, he wouls still be deadliest)?
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

Goodness gracious Lillian! I thought we agreed to bring closure to this entire thing? ... can post the next post and drag it on, but that's his problem. Do be guilty of the same thing and quit pointing fingers at him, its over, we won. You don't have to rub it in his face. Seesh...
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

Dromaeosaurs did not have powerful arms. These spindy structures were perfect for grapsing small mammals or dinosaurs but were weakely muscled- hardly good for grasping big prey. In a way, Dromaeosaur arms are extremely similar to human arms. Tyrannosaurus would have easily out performed any raptor in the arm-strength department. ]

Also, Dromaeosaurs ahve a light construction. Mabye I'm wrong, but does a fall or a kick from a herdosaur means certain death, given it's fragile construction?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

Well, whatever it is, Megaraptor is certainly not a dromaeosaur at all: metatarsals all wrong, pubis too ventral, ischium lacking a proper obturator, and long bones much too light. And the skull's palatal was too thick, antorbital fenestrae too rostral, distal carina too small, not to mention the trenchant ungual was hardly present…oh, the list goes on. I didn't know what BBD was thinking, but Megaraptor is certainly not a raptor.

Oh yes, even the validity of Utahraptor has been called into question. But watch this news, for it's for the future.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

Not entirely true JC, it obvious from the posts that .. trying to drag the entire thing on, seriously, everybody is quite tired off all this and him.
from Lillian T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000
You are dragging it on. Please find a new topic - I will not post any more of your insults. JC

You are right Honkie, .... Profound words.
from Lillian Tay, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 21, 2000

Yes, we celebrate Christmas, if that helps you.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2000

Great story Bill. Anyway, hey people over here! This topic is O.V.E.R. I would like to bring closure to this entire thing. We don't have to be insulting or rude ... Let stop right now. We can't keep having a debate over and over until one party is sasified with the outcome. I though you people learned that in Florida? ... We don't have to make sure absolutely 100percent of the population agrees with us at all. 90 percent will do. And that majority I believe we have. We really don't have to entertain everybody, it's really not worth it.

Do you hear me Lillian, DW, Leonard, Car? There is really no need to drag this back in another pathetic circle that will drive even more people off. Look at Brad, a visitor of Zoom Dinosaurs from the start until this started. ...

Even facts are discarded to the wind ... Like in stating Tyrannosaurus was a carnosaur, Megaraptor was a raptor and that Gigantosaurus had longer and stronger arms. Seesh. These are factual errors and yet he defends them until given proof. ... We just saw a factual error and corrected it.

Now I won't play the saint and say we were all right in this entire affair. We also did toss our fair share of insults and threats. But at the very least, we did not sink to the level of "defend myself no matter what it takes" We have a strong case. And in face, its so strong that we hardly have to make a concious effort to defend it. Everything speaks volumes for itself.


And that's why people neutral to this debate took sides after a while. We were starting to tire them out with our constant bickering and complaining about each other. ...

Look, I don't really think there would be any solution to this debate. I remain convinced that my side is correct and so do you. Look, I still think you are wrong and that I am right, and I am sure you feel likewise in the opposite direction. I don't think in this case there will be any definate solution. But I am appaled by the hurt that this has caused. I admit that I had a hand in it certainly. Do you?

In short, I'd like to bring complete closure to this case. I believe we presented a better case that is correct and sound. But that is my view. I'm sure you feel the same way, but if you did present a better case, why did people neutral join forces against you? I prefer to leave that question unanswered. ...
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2000

from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2000

I saw one of my gifts. I am so stupid for doing that.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2000

Ok DW. If Singapore does not have a national holiday, then I just want to know if Honkie Tong celibrates Chistmas or Chanukkah (it would not make sense if a Singaporian celibrated Kuanza). I also need to know the December holiday Othneil C. Marsh celibrated. The reson I'm asking this stuff is for the Dino-show-us holiday special. The next kids to post on this bord should answer me. Honkie Tong, will you take a brake from your project? I need to start the new Dino-show-us by tomorow (it will be Chanukkah, Christmas, and Ramidon tomorow). JC, are there any good Isrealie dinosaurs?
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 20, 2000

The reason I had not been posting for some time was because I had been working on a special project to post. JC, you were right in taking action like this. In fact, I think you should block any senders sending in about this subject until the whole thing is over. The problem is, .. refuses to let us talk about something else even when we had won a long time ago. It would be prudent of you to block his posts and that of any other people on this topic until the whole thing dies down. What do you say?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2000
I'm not blocking any individual's posts, only posts that are insulting and rude (and most of these were not from him). And, no one can control what topic you discuss, so don't blame him. JC

Come on Honkie. Why havent you spoken for so long? Where have you gone. ...
from Lillian Tay, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2000

Your simple calculations are too simple BBD. Perhaps if you added a few things in, you'd realize that you-are-wrong
from Alex Sophin, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2000

If I have noticed BBD, when we started out, Joseph, Carchardontosaur and DW were not against you. But now, it seems that those people have taken up arms and against you now.....hmmmm it seems you are losing ground. Should I join you guys? Well, I will have to wait and see.
from Josh, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2000

It's a nasty looking beast. I mean, just looking at it, you know you will never see a herbivorous version grazing in the plains during the day. It hardly looks like a dinosaur at all. As you walk around it, this monster looks different from every angle. A runner, even a predatory dinosaur, is supposed to have a sleek outline to assist the airflow over its frame. Not the Tyrannosaurus Rex, it has the direct, in-your-face brutality of some predatory bird spawned on a faraway planet. Except this one eats dinosaurs, not rabbits.

It has a number of nicknames. Paleontologists call it "The Beast," "Blackdeath," and " Whispering Death." Whatever name you choose, the Tyrannosaurus Rex is unquestionably the world's best big prey hunter (BPH). To understand why, consider a couple of incidents that happened over 65 million years ago. On one occasion, a Tyrannosaurus bit so hard into a Triceratops hip that the bite shattered the hip and went directly into another bone directly below it, destroying both structures.

Another more amazing T.Rex story was told by an unfortunate Edmontosaur, which happened to be lucky to escape from a T.Rex attack. The Tyrannosaurus managed to bite the tail of the Edmontosaur before it escaped. In all respects, such a nip by all other predatory dinosaurs would have at most left a few grooves in the vertebrae of the tail at the worst, a painful reminder to the victim to be more alert the next time round.

However, this is hardly the case with Tyrannosaurus. Even a slight nip broke off four upper tail vertebrae. The Edmontosaur would still have survived this anyway, and this it did, managing to heal a bit before dying some time of unknown reasons. But on closer examination, it was discovered that the Edmontosaur had actually died from a massive infection caused by the bite it suffered. So the Tyrannosaurus did kill its prey!

The Tyrannosaurus was born out of intense competition by a group of small carnivores in a race for the prestigious position of the BPH. As a BPH, one needs to worry little of predators and would dominate the ecosystem, having no enemies except another BPH of higher or similar rank. Many groups competed for this position, producing a large range of designs. The Tyrannosaurids were the Coelurosaurs entry for the contest, of which, Tyrannosaurus was the best. To understand this, we must notice that Tyrannosaurus was quite a different and special Tyrannosaurid in the first place, a difference that led it to dominate the landscape and throw all other BPHs out of their place. To understand why Tyrannosaurus is the best predatory dinosaur, we must look at it carefully.


Carnivorous dinosaurs need weapons to hunt, and Tyrannosaurus is no exception. However, never has all of Dinosauria seen such an animal that takes all this to the extreme…

If we would look at the Tyrannosaurus, the first thing we would notice would be its intimidating size. Which is good for a BPH. The next thing we notice would be its head, which is what we would focus on. Tyrannosaurus had most of its killing action concentrated on its mouth, which its does admirably, with a set of stumpy jaws lined with long, thick teeth. However, all this would be useless if it did not have a powerful bite. The base of Tyrannosaurus jaws widen to a huge cavity to allow for powerful muscles that would work the jaw in life, allowing it to put up incredible force into its bite. To get a perspective on this, Tyrannosaurus could easily penetrate any kind of defense short of ankylosaurs simply by biting. Special hinges in the head allowed the jaws to flex to absorb the 15 tons of force driving down on the target. All this force is concentrated on the tips of the teeth, of which Tyrannosaurus has about 50.

The results would be quite a sight: The bite would have removed a gouge of flesh 4 feet long and 2 feet deep, which is the human equivalent of having a can-sized piece of flesh removed from your body in a bite. The bite would have also shattered bone and stripped muscle of flesh. And if you still don't die from all the shock from the blood loss and fractured bones, a massive infection will overwhelm your immune system and claim you hours later.

All this killing equipment is very interesting, but will not work if the neck of the Tyrannosaurus wasn't doing its job well. Tyrannosaurus has a well-curved neck to absorb to energy of hitting the prey. The neck is also very well muscled and short to make it immensely powerful. If you look at the neck of a Tyrannosaurus in life, you would notice almost nothing but muscle there. All this allows the Tyrannosaurus to twist and rip its prey apart or pull back at its food while stepping on it in punch-and pull feeding. Given the amount of firepower put in is head, its no surprise its neck has to be built this way.

A pair of short arms that have been reduced to make way for the head also adds to all this equipment. Despite its tiny arms, these forelimbs are immensely powerful and have the highest power to size ratio of any dinosaur ever, even the raptors. But moving on the legs, the claws on the legs are well curved, much like those of a eagle, to allow it to grip its food. But their role in killing is secondary, talk to the mouth.

All this would be pretty much useless if the Tyrannosaurus did not have good senses to hunt. We all know that Tyrannosaurus has the best smell of all dinosauria around, but what most people don't know (thanks to the misguided John Horner), is that T.Rex had very good eyesight. With eyeballs bigger than your fist and a visible optic lobe protruding from the brain, we would expect T.Rex to have excellent eyesight about 8 to 10 times more acute than that of a human, comparable or exceeding that of modern day eagles. It also had extremely good hearing that could pick up the lowest frequency of any dinosaur. Hunters usually need to hear low frequency noises that travel well and far to locate their prey. But most of all, T.Rex was smart. The area responsible for conscious thought (which is not dependent on ratio to body size), is far more than that of any other BPHs around. Including the raptors. Tyrannosaurus was about as smart as a modern day eagle, certainly smarter than the rapt! ors.


Well all this firepower may seem sexy and exciting, Tyrannosaurus still has to have the mobility to avoid counter-attacks while getting in attacks of its own. All predators have to balance three things: Firepower, Mobility and Survivability. Something which Tyrannosaurus does excellently. Lets look at how mobile Tyrannosaurus is…

Now, many people have long assumed that Tyrannosaurus was a slow and clumsy mover. This idea has a certain appeal, as it is hard to imagine a 6 ton animal moving fast. But closer examination reveals this to be pure nonsense.

Now if we look at Tyrannosaurus as a whole, we would notice that while it was extremely blocky and stout in the front portion, it seems to be built for speed from mid-body down. Tyrannosaurus has one of the longest and most slender leg bones of any non-avian predatory dinosaur. Which would have made it a fast runner. As many people have already explained, Tyrannosaurus was certainly faster than a raptor anytime. Now, a popular but misguided argument about Tyrannosaurus falling at high speeds will be attacked here. Now the core of the argument revolves around "what if" T.Rex fell. Which I think is nonsense, based on the facts.

Firstly, Tyrannosaurus was certainly well balanced, not to mention he had a long and thick tail to allow him to balance. The Tyrannosaurus was simply too well balanced to fall on their face while running. The fall theory is logically flawed, if you ask me. It tries to limit an animal based on something that rarely happened, if it did at all.

Moving on, we will realize that Tyrannosaurus was also super-agile despite his bulk. He had an unstable hip joint that allowed him to shift his center of gravity, allowing him to make sharper turns and recoveries while running. Tyrannosaurus was fast and agile, not clumsy and slower. In fact if you think about it, Tyrannosaurus was probably as agile, if not more than any species of raptor. Powerful.


Perhaps one of the highlights of Tyrannosaurus is its incredible ability to take a incredible and still keep coming. It was die-hard, if you would say. If you attack with your mouth, you're going to risk taking damage to your head and neck and upper torso. Tyrannosaurus avoids this by using its natural agility. But if things get bloody, T.Rex would take it well.

Like a Cauldron Born, T.Rex can survive a lot of damage. Its spinal cord is tucked into its massive vertebrae to protect it. The powerful and thick neck muscles surround the vital blood vessels in its neck to keep it from damage. T.Rex is slow to bleed and slow to die. What BBD has put as "badly cut" is hardly fatal in Tyrannosaur terms as Tyrannosaurus takes broken ribs, necks tails, bites from other Tyrannosaurus and still lives through. It's hard to believe that a raptor could inflict damage that would kill a Tyrannosaur considering that Tyrannosaurus constantly take more damage from other Tyrannosaurus. In a fight with a similar sized raptor, a Rex could give out more that it takes and still be able to take more damage and live on.

That's why he is the best predatory dinosaur.
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 20, 2000

Yawn.......such a raptor did not exist BBD. Your arguments are false. It's like saying if I had a dagger as long as your sword, i'd kill you flat................rubbish.

Actually. The reason this has come a full circle is because you people has played into his hands. BBD's has lost, and he'll not give up until he wins. Ever played sissors paper and stone before and lost and you want to try again...well, BBD's like that too. We can all stop all this nonsense by refusing to kick up a second round by answering all his nonsensical posts. Particually those attacking Singaporeans. Remember, an empty rattle makes the most noise...
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2000

Giggle... ... called Megaraptor a dromaeosaur? hehehe giggle
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2000

Oh, and for the last time, Megaraptor is not a dromeosaurid!
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2000

BBD, I was talking about your unfounded descriptions on my country, your telling me to get a life and your assumptions. You missed the point.
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2000

Car-How many times must I say a dromaeosaur as tall at the hip as a tyrannosaur, like megaraptor and Daspletosaurus! Duh.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2000

DW,you say T,rex was the most deadly carnivore of all time, do you have an educated answer to back it up?
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 19, 2000

This is so incredibly pathetic. You, and I mean all of you are just carrying yourselves in a wide circle. We have been through this before. I think we can end this very fast. Ok, there is no way to prove any answers are right or wrong. Why would the two dinosaurs come into conflict anyway. Most likley not over territorry, and obviously not over mates. Yes, maybe they would argue over food, but I doubt it would come to violence. Think of it this way. NO, and I mean NO animal in the natural world would attack something four times it's own size over an argument. That is like a wolf attacking a great white. Yes, there would beblood on either side, but why would the smaller animal risk it's life. Besides, if raptors were vicious enough to kill a tyrannosaur, couldn't they find ther OWN food?
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2000

Oh DW, I have not chosen what I know as truth, I KNOW its truth, and you know why I know, its the same way you find truth about things you were once not sure about. Raptor claws were cutting tools, raptors had better balance and agility, and not to mention the large raptors were heavy, thick and tremendously strong animals. A large type raptor against a Tyrannosaur(NOT REX) the same height would be cut up really bad before he could bite. Its such a simple calculation. You have animal one(tyrannosaur) who is heavy on their feet, only have head ornaments(butting tools) and jaws as weaponry with a low agility compared to animals such as cats, and a "one foot first" tyupe turn against animal 2(large dromaeosaur) medium sized head, overkill sized manus and pes claws, for weaponry, very long reach, light bones for high speed quirks, snaps, twists, turns and dodges, ability to jump and turn in midair along with a long reach and very powerful arm and leg muscles for driving those claws deep. These are the facts, here they are. your so passionate about your opinion, then you must have an educated answer. Now DW, do you have an educated answer?
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 18, 2000

I'm sorry if that post seems harsh, but I say what I see.
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2000

Reuben, Christmas is celebrated in Singapore at this time of year, but not by all Singaporeans. It is a religious holiday after all, but it is a public holiday like other religious festivals.
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2000

BBD, I'm sorry to have had to threaten you like that but I want you to look at your behaviour. Do you call that mature and responsible? It is like what you have been doing all along. You never checked to see that my threat was empty. You assumed. And you keep assuming. Don't you think that I go out with my friends? Do you know that my school TAUGHT me this stuff about computers? Do you even know that I prefer physics and astronomy to Dinosaurs? Do you even know me?

And after you assume, you think you are right. You think you are right because you decided that what you know is truth, that it can't possibly change even though paleontology is a scientific discipline. And when people who took the time to check the latest information on what you are saying contradict you, you tell them to get lost. And then you go on assuming.

If you bothered to pay attention, I was discussing the hunting abilities of dromeosaurids when you turned it into a which is better than what contest. I wanted to learn from those who know more than me. True, the group probably insulted you more, but that was only after you refused to acknowledge their views and also because there are more of them than you. But you know what? They are right. Go and buy the latest dinosaur book yet published, The New T-Rex. Look at the arguments given to you on this forum. Go check your facts. Use your logic. Think.

But what makes me furious is your labeling of my nation based om your assumptions. What's insulting is not your language, but your blinkeredneess in assuming that a people would be the same regardless of the individual. Do you know that a lot of my friends do not even care for paleontology?

So keep expressing your blinkered assumptions. Keep proclaiming that you know the truth. But know this. Your assumptions are all lies because they are not the truth. So keep lying. Even when others know the truth. Keep lying.
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2000

The next Singaporian (Honkie Tong, DW, etc.) to post on this page should tell me what holiday they celibrate in December and some things about it. The next expert on Robert Bakker, Edward Cope, or Othneil Marsh should tell me what December holiday each of them celibrates / celabrated. The reson I'm asking this so much is because I need this knolege for writing the next Dino-show-us (it is a holiday special).
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2000

JC, can you make a place where kids can post mesages they want paleontologists to answer? JC, what is the December holiday Singaporians celibrate and can you tell me about it?

P.S. Please respond.
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 17, 2000
We have a dinosaurs question and answer site in Zoom Dinosaurs. As to the holiday in Singapore, I don't know. JC

JC, do something about ... PLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSE! He has been telling us we need to get a life he has been calling us names. Please do something.
from Firebird's BIG Friend. (Say 6 foot friend.), age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2000
The insults have been coming from both sides, and a lot more have come from the gang (vs. the individual). Why don't all of you forget the personal insults, start fresh, and talk about paleontology instead? If someone has a theory or opinion that is different from yours, attack the theory, not the person. JC

yo, man who needs to get a life man? all you have been doing man, is making everyone'z life miserable. telling us to shut up. acting like your a saint. saying that's not the gentleman'z way whan your not being a gentleman either. i think you need to get alife ... oh and by the way t.rex is the better species. he could kick giagantosaurus'z butt any day of the week. oh and i admit i was stupid when i left. i am not 24. i was juz mad. will you give me a nother chance?
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2000

You know ..., as I sit and ponder, it is you and the singaporeans who are bullying and pushing around others with different fools and gang up on them no matter how wrong u are for the sake of T.Rex. We WERE having a debate, but then it all turned to name calling, insulting, teasing and the like, mostly done by your "paleontologist". (He is not, hes a student, like calling a history major student a history pro) Now you guys really need to grow up. I was talking to others and then you come in and start saying lies to make look like a bad jerk, which I am not at all. To push around someone else and their views ONLY in a group is a sign or weak mindedness and shallow thinking. You kids from singapore in here, well I dont have to say nothing cuz yopur stuck on one predatory animal in the entire animal kingdom, now you other guys are hilarious. THe whole raptor-T.rex issue is done and my points stand strong, while you distorted what I said and all that. Now just to show how petty you really are, im going to be insulted, which shows you have nothing else to prove and you cant take be wrong or corrected. Sorry for hurting your feelings.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2000

DW, im not a hacker or a computer wiz, ok. I dont know everything about a computer, unlike yourself who has to time to mess with it all day. Usually when I have time I like to study paleontology and go out with people my own age, not ppl over the net. LOL. DOnt get
your gang on me please. And if thats what you call a life....well have fun. THeres alot more to life than just dinosaurs and computers.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!

from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 17, 2000


Pleeeease... If you are using a dial-up connection, your ip address changes everytime you dial up. If your using cable, your service provider should provide a firewall to stop people from remotely accessing your computer. Heck, if getting a person's ip was illegal than everyone who plays online computer games should be thrown in jail. Really getting a person's ip isn't a big deal, in fact, most modern websites have programs embedded in them called cookies that "latch" on to your browser. Then they keep track of you and those are much worse. And guess what. It's perfectly legal.

I purposely said that I'll track your ip to see your reaction. Hehehe.. that's funny, get thrown into jail... hehehe even mirc can do it... hahaha...

Anyway, my point was not to insult another person by his country again. I'm proud of my country and my fellow countrymen, even if you aren't. You probably never met a Singaporean face to face, or at least one of worth. And my second point is that you should think before you act. Research anything relevant to the topic before engaging in a discussion. You never seem to do, and that's bad practice. This forum is for sharing one's views, so why do you tell everyone else to shut up when they express views that contradict your own? Especially when they back their's with evidence? Civilisation was not built by ignorance.

Oh, and I have a life.

from DW, age 14, Singapore!, ?, ?; December 16, 2000

Lately my stories have not really been coming in that fast. For the next couple days, they will come in pretty fast to make up, but after that the rate will slow again. They are also getting shorter but as far as I know quality has not even dropped an ounce. Please give me any reccomendations or comments you can give out. I just put chapter two of Nowhere to run.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 16, 2000

I have posted the first chapter of my story Nowhere To Run. I hope you don't mind billy, but I used your name in the story. Before you get angry, it is not in any way a personal attack. YOu are one of the worlds two leading experts on tyrannosaurs, Honke Tong is the other.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 16, 2000

what is the oldest dinosour?
from Joe M., age 8, Downingtown, PA, USA; December 16, 2000

One of the chaptors in each of my books will have the name of the book, as a chaptor!
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 16, 2000

Oh yeah DW, incase you wanna meet me in real, my I have a huge shpeherd mix not to mention im HUGE myself, but that dont mean Im stupid. Stop trying to push ppl around over the computer and do it to someone whos equal with you.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 16, 2000

DW, go away ok. My aunts a judge, my dad's a cop and my father in law is one of the top heads of channel nine, not to mention I got connections to Sin City BOys. You dont wanna, get a life man. ANyway, .. aint no paleontologist cuz hes too immature and silly. Thats now the ways of paleontologists. Hes a student, not a pro, so save it for someone who doesnt know. God you guys really really need to get a life! Hahahahaaaa. And ..., you poor excuse for a male human, Ill really be scared to be banned from a dinosaur site mainly for children who are bullied by cowardly computer nerds from singapore and the United States. Uh oh!!! Oh yeah, about the whole ip thing, my brother in law is a computer specialist and you could get your sefl in alot of legal trouble my friend. Nice try and your cute too with your threats. PLEASE!
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 16, 2000

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