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ZoomDinosaurs.com
Dino Talk: A Dinosaur Forum

Late-Middle July 2001



Note: Dr. Tom Holtz and Dr. Michael Brett-Surman answered dinosaur questions for ZoomDinosaurs in July, 2001 (as publicity for their new dinosaur book). We've posted the questions and answers.



Dunno, it was juz a speculation.
from HT, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


I did some calculations based on information from Jack Horner's "C-Rex" and Rigby's Rex, and look at the results:

C-Rex (all excavated bones thus far are 10% larger than Sue)
Height at Hip: ~13.2 ft
Length: ~46.2 ft
Weight: ~8 tons

Rigby's Rex (at lower end estimates is 15% larger than Giganatosaurus)
Height at Hip: ??? (I don't know Giganatosaurus's hip height)
Length: ~48.4 ft
Weight: ~8 tons+

Pretty large Rexes, no?
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


Were was Hyphilsilophodon Found
from Hobart, age 8, Brisbane, ?, Austrailia; July 25, 2001


I DONT PUT MY AGE BECUZ I AM AGELESS

>=P
from C. INGENS, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


Hey Honkie,

Thanks for the take on Spino, I guess you and I are coming across two different sources. I did razzle your take on the off-scene T-rex thing a bit, but did entertain...much imagination on your part, so it was cool. I get so much stuff on Spino that all makes me think elsewhere. Oh well, until more is to be concluded, who knows what will come up.

and...

C Ingens, your age doesnt appear on your message, but its starting to show.
from SpinosaurusFanForLife, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


Hi Guys! I'm new here! I'm a dino newbie too. Just a question to all you experts here. Any updates on that Tyrannosaurus Imperator fossil?

BTW, that JP3 movie &*()ed cuz the T-Rex died.
from Guile, age 19, Manila, ?, Philippines; July 25, 2001


ok, thanks J.C., I knew that didn't seem right.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


Regarding Honkie Tong's sloth-like deinocheir, is it even possible that the scapula would stick up beyond the back like that?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 25, 2001


"Spinosaurus was a middle Cretaceous period saurischian ("lizard-hipped") dinosaur. It was a theropod, a CARNOSAUR, and a spinosauroid (dinosaurs with elongated spines on their vertebrae from the Cretaceous period). " this came right out of zoomdinosaur's section on Spinosaurus, and as you can see, Spinosaurus was a carnosaur. (Yes, I actually checked my facts! Amazing!
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001
Oops, our mistake - that reference was from an older page of ours, written when we were still using the definition of carnosauria as containing most of the large theropods (carnosauria used to be divided into allosaurids [still considered carnosaurs today], ceratosaurids, megalosaurids, and spinosaurids). Sereno recently (1999, Science 284: 2137-2147) dumped the group Carnosauria and put the allosaurids and sinraptorids in Neotetanurae. Holtz disbanded the group carnosauria in 1993 (see The Evolution and Extinction of the Dinosaurs, 1996, p.275); in his Q and A section at this site, he said, "The word "carnosaur" was once used for any big theropod (meat-eating dinosaur), it technically refers to Allosaurus and its closest relatives". This is consistent with Keesey, whose definition of carnosauria contains the allosauorids, sinraptorids and the early carnosaurs (like Cryolophosaurus, Fukuiraptor and Monolophosaurus), but puts spinosaurids (and the other ex carnosaurs) in separate (earlier) groups. We thought all the older references had been changed, but apparently they haven't. We'll be doing a major check tonight for old carnosaur references (carnosaur now defined as - closer to Allosaurus than to birds). I've changed the reference on the Spinosaurus page. JC


"and brad, the Spinosaurus is a carnosaur. It is a member of the family Spinosauridae, which include Suchomimus and Baryonyx."

But what did you say that proves that the Spinosauridae is part of the Carnosauria? I personally place Baryonyx and Suchomimus in the Baryonychidae.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 25, 2001


Shane S., if your going to do a story like dinowarz you can atleast make the name original.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


"i agree with spino lovers and rex lovers. I dont believe spinosaurus was 60 feet long and 12tons. i do believe he was longer, taller, and bulkier than rex though. in my opinion Spino was 50-55 feet long, 14 feet tall and weighed about 8-9 tons."

Actually this is untrue. Spinosaurus was almost certaily the longest carnivorus dinosaur by a reasonable margin, but he was by no means the bulkiest (in fact he is the lightest dinosaur in proportion to his length). T.rex was far more massive and heavier than Spinosaurus. The reason for Spinosaurus' amazing length is mainly due to it's lengthened vetrebre, not because it's big or massive. In fact Spinosaurus was oddly long for its size. But it certainly didn't weight anywehre near 6 tons. 4-5 tons at 53 feet is more reasonable. And Spinosaurus had much shorter legs than T.rex though, at the shoulders (no you cheater, don't measure from the sail) T.rex would have been taller (it makes sense actually, Spinosaurus needed to fish, so excessive height is not particuarly effective as an advantage) Spinosaurus wasn't exactly massive, large would be a better world to put it. He was built more like a "Diplodocus" than a "Brachiosaur", if you get what I mean. When it comes to Spinosaurus, we can't go simply by merit of length for he was a dinosaur surprisingly light for his length.

"But i do not see how scientists can conclude that Spinosaurus was up to 50ft long, and weigh as much as 4-6, maybe as much 8 tons, and say he could fall prey to fresh water crocodiles. "

Well, actually these fresh water crocodiles were not anywhere near the sizes we were used to today. Back then they had MASSIVE species (40 feet?), and some of them were certianly massive enough to happily take on Spinosaurus. In the water, the crocs have a home-ground advantage when it comes to attacking Spinosaurus. Yep, these made the waters extremely dangerous for an unwary Spino.

"Not at that size, thats like saying T-rex (another Fav of mine) could have been eaten by a shark. "

Actually, T.rex could have fallen prey to one of the super-crocs in its enviroment if it wasn't careful.

"As for the jaws I will try to locate a site or some referrence that supports what i learned for Spino's bite. It definitely had to have a large fierce bite to bring down large Sauropods. "

Once again, I'd like to say the morphlogy of Spinosaurus prevents it from harbouring too powerful a bite. However, I can locate a refrence for you by an expert that indicates that Spinosaurus had a weak bite:

"S. aegyptiacus was very derived as a fish eater. The skull is long, low, on a longer, slender, neck, and not reinforced for strength; it most likely measures around six to seven feet long. The nares is posteriorly shifted, probably to allow it to breathe while its snout was underwater, like many modern fishing birds. The teeth are long and conical, some with microserrations, and little to no recurvature. A rosette of teeth is on the lower jaw, with the longest teeth almost at the tip. The upper jaw has similar teeth radiations at the premaxilla and at the front of the maxillas. There is an extreme kink in the snout between the maxilla and premaxilla. There is no stereoscopic vision. The jaws were highly laterally compressed, and almost paper thin in the more primitive Suchomimus tenerensis. These would have led the Spinosaurs in general to have a relatively weak bite."

There you have it.

"If Spino was that powerful, I do not believe he was preyed upon, unless it was immature, aged, or weakend by previous battle."

Spinosaurus was built more like a basketball player than a boxer-bruiser. He wasn't exactly powerful for his size. Other animals like the Charcaradontosaurs were much more powerful for their size. Not saying that Spinosaurus had to constantly hide and dodge these animals, because his size acted as somewhat of a deterant (so a carnivore whould attack it only if it was desperate or something like that). HOWEVER, if you are looking at animals at the top of the food chain, Spinosaurus is not the place to start. A Charcaradontosaur would have killed a Spinosaurus quite easily.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


"I HAVE DONE MUCH RESEARCH ON THE LEGENDARY SPINOSAURUS."

YOU HAVE???? IT SURE DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT. LEGENDARY??? HARDLY...THE ONLY THING LEGENDARY ABOUT SPINOSAURUS IS THAT IT WAS BLOWN APART IN WW2!!!
from C. INGENS, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


SPINOSAURUS IS NOT A CARNOSAUR!!! HA HA HA HA HEHEHEHE HAHAH HO HO
from C. INGENS, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


i agree with spino lovers and rex lovers. I dont believe spinosaurus was 60 feet long and 12tons. i do believe he was longer, taller, and bulkier than rex though. in my opinion Spino was 50-55 feet long, 14 feet tall and weighed about 8-9 tons.
from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ??????; July 25, 2001


Though I believe Spinosaurus could bring down an unwary iguanodont/hadrosaur if the oppurtunity arose, I sincerely doubt that it could take down sauropods. Based on what I've read, it doesn't seem suited to the task. Its teeth lacked the serrations commonly found in other large theropods; they were conical in shape. Besides, why take on the largest land animals ever when you can get the same amount of food from a river with much less risk?

A quote from Gregory S. Paul:

"Despite its great size, Spinosaurus would have been vulnerable to attacks from the big allosaurs that shared its habitat."
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


"But what we do know from fossil evidence is, Tyrannosaurs were certainly capable of hurting and even killing each other. So there you have it, we might have a case of canabilism here."

Going out on a limb here, but it seems to support the idea that T-Rexs may have been pack hunters too. Or at least family hunters. The best protection against another T-Rex would be more T-Rexs right?
from Usen, age 20, ?, ?, USA; July 25, 2001


I was talkin about the documentary. i did the dino warz to be funny.
O yea, and brad, the Spinosaurus is a carnosaur. It is a member of the family Spinosauridae, which include Suchomimus and Baryonyx.

from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


Hey Brad,

Didnt mean to avoid your point with my last shout out. You seem to be very versed in the classifications of dinosaurs. I for one, have limited research in the field, as cryptozoology (study of hidden creatures is my field, i.e. Tazmanian Tiger, etc.) is what i love best...so im going to have to say that I have not real good answer for you. I have though extensively researched certain things, like Spinosaurus, T-Rex, amongst others...all my research has led me to believe what i post.
from SpinosaurusFanForLife, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


Hey guys, Lillian,

I would first like to say that I am not trying to be argumentative with anyone. But i do not see how scientists can conclude that Spinosaurus was up to 50ft long, and weigh as much as 4-6, maybe as much 8 tons, and say he could fall prey to fresh water crocodiles. Maybe you could shed some light on this for me. All my research has led me to believe otherwise. Maybe a young Spino would fall prey to such predators, but a mature one? Not at that size, thats like saying T-rex (another Fav of mine) could have been eaten by a shark. It just doesnt make sense size-wise. As for the jaws I will try to locate a site or some referrence that supports what i learned for Spino's bite. It definitely had to have a large fierce bite to bring down large Sauropods. Let me know some places to get info that will show me where maybe my research is leading me wrong. But then, we still know so little I'm sure the opinions change with the paleontologist. If Spino was that powerful, I do not believe he was preyed upon, unless it was immature, aged, or weakend by previous battle.

Kudos on all the excellent takes...
from SpinosaurusFanForLife, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


J, Thanks for the props on my take, we real Spino fans may disagree on Spino's habits, but know deep within that he was a BMF!!!
And RealSpinoFanForLife, nice amendment of my name, disagree on the take though.

from SpinosaurusFanForLife, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


"It is even the largest known Carnosaur, as a matter of fact."

I don't think we can conclusively classify Spinosaurus as a carnosaur (or anything else, really). What's you're definition of Carnosauria? Russell and Dong (1994) used Carnosauria as one of the two subordinate groups in Tetanurae, including Allosaurus, Dromaeosauridae, and Tyrannosauridae. Currie (1997) gave the defining character as opithocoelous cervical vertebrae, and included Abelisauridae, Megalosauridae, Sinraptoridae, Allosauridae, and Carcharodontosauridae. And then there is the current Dinosauriconized view that Carnosauria is basically the Allosauroidea, and a few basal members like Cryolophosaurus..... So if Spinosaurus is a carnosaur, what else is?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 25, 2001


Seen my new Deinocheirus picture? Now that's a genera of dinosaur we are unfamiliar with! Whadaya think brad?
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


what state did they come from where did the t-rex get his name
from Dominique, age 9, Mckee Rocks, pa, USA; July 25, 2001


do you know what all animals bones look like
from keirra, age 8, mckeesrocks, pa, u.s.a; July 25, 2001


ht-mcdraw
Hey guys! The next installment of Net Impact is out. This is an action packed, and somewhat grisly chapter, but give me your feedback.

Thanks Honkie for the weaponular support.
from Billy Macdraw, age 19, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


"It has led me to believe that Spinosaurus was a fierce predator with sharp teeth which were housed in a powerful Croc-Like Jaw."

Actually, all research based seem to indicate that Spinosaurus had a relatively weak bite. And its two closest known relatives Baryonyx and Suchiomimus, had rather weak bites compaired to other dinosaurs also. Nope, Spinosaurus certianly didn't bite too hard at all. Besides, the jaws of Spinosaurs in general resemble the long-jawed species of crocs, and these don't have a powerful bite. Further research also shows that Spinosaurs had skulls that were quite delicate. In some cases like Suchiomimus, the some parts of the skull are almost paper thin, bad enginering solutions for a powerful bite. Spinosaurus certainly could take on some medium sized herbivores, but a Charcaradontosaurus could have easily outdone it anyday. Most scientific research Spinosaurus wasn't built to be a superpredator at all. A superpredator of fish maybe. It's extremely unlikely he could take on large sauropods, but a baby sauropod could be fair game though. There has been some indication that Spinosaurus was actually also been prey for other animals like Charcaradontosaurus and freshwater crocs, so he wasn't exactly the at the top of his food chain!
from Lillian Tay, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


"who would win. dilophosaurs VS. velociraptor"

Are you kidding? Dilophosaurus was like six times larger than Velociraptor, it's not even a fight. Heck, Dilophosaurus would have been a predator of Velociraptor if they had ever lived at the same time. I'm so shocked, it's like saying Spinosaurus stood any chance against T-Rex!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


"Will yall please go look at my story in dinofiction? its called The Acrocanthosaurus Story. Then tell me what u think."

I dunno Shane, but Dino Warz is the trademark of Billy Macdraw and the offical dinobattle league. You should consider changing the name to another one to avoid legal complications.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


"How much salary would I make if I were a paleontologist?"

I hope you are not going into the job for the sake of a salary, because it does not pay well if you do not have the funds. :)
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


"It is even the largest known Carnosaur"

Erm, if you were doing so much research, why did you call it a carnosaur?
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


Yeah! No problemo batman, I could provide some information! I think Sue at the Field Musuem provides a very good place for such info. The holes seemed to be caused by some infection of the bones of her jaw, a result of grout or something like that. Sue's tibula was also deformed by a disease, but these injuries don't seem to slow her down, not at least for a while.

On Stephen the T.rex, nobody really knows if he was killed by another T.rex or scavanged by another T.rex. But what we do know is, it was another T.rex that ate him. They found lots of bite marks and T.rex tooth fragments all over the body and a large portion of the spine down the lower back was also completely bitten away, so you get T.rex T-bone steaks on one side. I dunno, but who knows? Stephen could have been killed in a mating battle by a rival or simply died and scavenged upond. But what we do know from fossil evidence is, Tyrannosaurs were certainly capable of hurting and even killing each other. So there you have it, we might have a case of canabilism here.

I saw quite a few clips of lions killing and eating cheetah cubs. And male lions do kill and eat the careless/cocky heyena once in a while. But the Spinosaurus in JP3 must have been extremely stupid to abandon such a large kill to go after humans...of course...he made the kill at all hee...hee...hee...:)
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


Damean, I think you misunderstood me. "Jest" means joking. I was saying that Honkie was clearly joking around, and that people who critized his "Spino lost" scenario had no sense of humour. Just making things clear.

And can we please adopt a system that SUPPORTS all this claims and arguments like I suggested earlier?
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 25, 2001


Spinosaurus at 4.5 tons?That's lighter than an elephant weighing 7 tons and the hippo at 5 tons.Okay forget mordern things.Spinosaurus's cousin was smaller.Baryonx weighing more than 2 tons was second after spinosaurus but an uneven match for t-rex and its back for spinosaurus again
from Donovan c., age 11, ?, singapore, ?; July 25, 2001


"Erm, actually Lions do commonly eat the hyenas they kill. The only time they don't eat them is when they are already quite full from the another kill they made eariler and the hyenas were annoying them. And of course, Sue wasn't actually killed by another T.rex as eariler thought. The holes in the side of her skull was actually due to an disease, not a T.rex bite. Stephen the T.rex was certainly killed by another T.rex though, and they did eat alot of him, so this seems to support this conclusion that predators most likely killed and ate each other if they could."

Honkie, do you know of any link online about this disease, or any other information about it? It sounds kind of bad if it ate through a T-Rex's skull. The news of predators eating each other comes as surpsie to me too. I guess it's mostly due to the fact that most nature documentaries tend to cut off after the fights between meat eaters. They seem to have something against showing preators eating each other?

Kind of odd considering they show them eating herbivores all the time, and I could have sworn I've seen a lioness leaving dead cheetah cubs without eating them, or carrying them off. btw, what's the story on this Stephen T-Rex? I mean size estimates, and do you know if there are any size estimates of the one that killed him from the bites?
from Usen, age 20, ?, ?, USA; July 24, 2001


Personally, I believe that Spinosaurus was primarily a piscavore (fish-eater). Its two closest known relatives are Baryonyx (a proven piscavore) and Suchiomimus (an assumed piscavore). Being a piscavore is actually an innovative and efficient lifestyle. Spinosaurs could have tapped into an abundant food source previously neglected by other large theropods. They would face little inter-species competition. I can't imagine a Charcaradontosaur picking a fight with a Spinosaurus for a good fishing spot, can you? The only other major competitor would be another spinosaur. However, although it was best suited for fishing, a Spinosaurus was probably fully capable of taking down the local iguanodonts/hadrosaurs for a change of pace.
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


Acrocanthosaurus? That a joke man! Allosaurus Maximus the whimp could have finished it off.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


I have done much research for the legendary Spinosaurus. It has led me to believe that Spinosaurus was a fierce predator with sharp teeth which were housed in a powerful Croc-Like Jaw. It could also Kill even large Sauropods!!! It is even the largest known Carnosaur, as a matter of fact. So I will say what i have always said, asking who would win the battle between Spino and T-rex, is like who would win between Bruce Lee and Jet Li. It all depends on the individual skills of the Predators we are talking about. Given a young Spino and a mature T-rex, T-rex would prob win. Two mature dinos, who knows, who ever got the best of the other. JP3, i would like to stress WAS a crowd pleaser, but is entirely likely. Spino WAS an effective killer of dinosaurs, do not be fooled. His Jaws were not weak, his arms were not unusable, and he was big and very fierce. I challenge you guys to do a little research on Spino, although it is limited. from SpinosaurusFanForLife, age ?, ?, Aegypticus, ?; July 24, 2001


How much salary would I make if I were a paleontologist?
from Scott M, age 12, Bridgeport, PA, USA; July 24, 2001


"who would win. dilophosaurs VS. velociraptor"
Well, considering D. wetherilli was bigger, I'd say he would win.

from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


"Oh yes, I've noticed most of the topics as of late have been preadtors fighting, killing, and eating each other. But I just have to say, was this the case? In JP3 I actually figured Spino left T-Rex, and went to eat on T-Rex's kill. When modern day predators kill another predator of the same species, or other species, they don't tend to eat them. I don't think dinos munched on fellow predators either, unless there's some kind of proof of it. When a lion kills a hyena, the lion doesn't eat the hyena. I think it was the T-Rex Sue that was killed by another T-Rex wasn't it? Well, she obviously wasn't eaten by the T-Rex that killed her, so this seems to support this conclusion. "

Erm, actually Lions do commonly eat the hyenas they kill. The only time they don't eat them is when they are already quite full from the another kill they made eariler and the hyenas were annoying them. And of course, Sue wasn't actually killed by another T.rex as eariler thought. The holes in the side of her skull was actually due to an disease, not a T.rex bite. Stephen the T.rex was certainly killed by another T.rex though, and they did eat alot of him, so this seems to support this conclusion that predators most likely killed and ate each other if they could. It makes very much better economic sense in Spinosaurus case, why abandon a 6-ton carcass to go after pesky 60-kilo humans that are so incredibly hard to catch and provide 100 times less food anyway? Though he wasn't that smart, I figured Spinosaurus was smart enough to figure that out. Of course...we all know he never really did kill the T.rex...:)

Hmm...Bill, I wonder what would have happened if you allowed Sue-Imperator, your 54-foot long, 6.5 foot skull totting Tyrannosaurus rex (imperaturus morph) instead of Suzie to start in the movie?
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


"THIS IS ONE OF THE Q'S SENT IN TO THE PAELEONTOLOGISTS ON THIS SITE. FACE THE FACTS, T.REX HATERS!"

Face what facts? That Tyrannosaursu was faster and more agile than Spinosaurus? That's a fact I LIKE to face he he he! Anyway, notice whenever people ask about the "T.rex vs Spinosaurus" thing, the answer is always "theoretically" speaking, Spinosaurus COULD kill T.rex if it got hold of the neck. Why don't they describe it the other way round? That's because everybody knows that T.rex was certainly a far more effective killer and no explaintion is needed for his combat effectiveness. "Theoretically", just about any animal could kill T.rex, just if it got very lucky. (Even an ant). Of course, "theoretically" is not the same case as "for sure". Unless a Spinosaurus was really, really lucky, he will be biting the dirt.

I suspect the odd shape of the Spinosaurus feces coupled with the reason they are green and contained alot of fibre indicates it was also largely a herbivore in the movie (not to mention scared). There you have it for accucrate Spinosaurus!
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


Will yall please go look at my story in dinofiction? its called The Acrocanthosaurus Story. Then tell me what u think.
from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ??????; July 24, 2001


"Which is bigger in reality,Acrocanthosaurus,Megaraptor,Spinosaurus,or Tyranosaurus?"

Well, this may be controversial but _Tyrannosaurus_ was certainly the most massive out of that group..._Spinosaurus_ may have been longer though. _Acrocanthosaurus_ was only up to 12 meters. _Megaraptor_'s size is not at all certain, but it probably was not too much larger than the "raptors" we see in "Jurassic Park," if it is a deinonychosaur at all.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


SpinosaurusFanForLife,that's a very good,well thought out argument.And i believe Honky Tong was talking about the fecies and how it was undigested.I have a hypothesis.It was most likely not digested well beacuse Spinosaurus actually did have a more fish diet,although it did sometimes eat small land animals.The teeth prove that.They are flat and conical and have little or no serrations like most large predators.Anyway,my point is,the rex meat probably gave him some upset stomach and/or diahrreah type sickness.
from J, age 16, Atlanta, Georgia, America; July 24, 2001


someone said that the lead Velociraptor in Jurassic Park Three didn't have feathers. well i could see that there was what seven really tiny feathers behind it's head. i think that was the first time they put Pteranadons in a Jurassic Park movie. lately everyone's been talking about the fight between Spinosaurus and T-rex. someone agree to say what is up with that.
from *Digimon*Empress*, age 8, ?, New Jersey, United States; July 24, 2001


Which is bigger in reality,Acrocanthosaurus,Megaraptor,Spinosaurus,or Tyranosaurus?
from J, age 16, Atlanta, Georgia, America; July 24, 2001


exscuse me C.E.R.A.T.A. you mean about as real as George W. Bush being smart.
from andrew, age 10, you, are, stupid; July 24, 2001


who would win. dilophosaurs VS. velociraptor
from andrew d, age 10, none, of your, bizwax; July 24, 2001


"T-rex did not play dead during the fight. u wanna know how i know?
bcuz when trex was on the ground, he stopped moving. then spino
began to tear chunks of flesh off of trex."

I don't recall Spinosaurus doing this in the film.. I just remember Spino getting all excited and suprised that it went and did the impossible, and pulled off (what it thought anyway) the defeat of the most powerful known flesh eating dinosaur.So Spino starts roaring and celebrating early until it's off camera surprise. Heh, with the little joke on the board about T-Rex's victory, I don't see it's anymore unplausible than Spino's on camera one.

Oh yes, I've noticed most of the topics as of late have been preadtors fighting, killing, and eating each other. But I just have to say, was this the case? In JP3 I actually figured Spino left T-Rex, and went to eat on T-Rex's kill. When modern day predators kill another predator of the same species, or other species, they don't tend to eat them. I don't think dinos munched on fellow predators either, unless there's some kind of proof of it. When a lion kills a hyena, the lion doesn't eat the hyena. I think it was the T-Rex Sue that was killed by another T-Rex wasn't it? Well, she obviously wasn't eaten by the T-Rex that killed her, so this seems to support this conclusion.

I'm assuming that when predators did die, there were some kind of scavenger species which would feed on them like vultures do today.. I find it funny that Horner ignores this. Hey, can you hear that? It sounds kind of like Horner's scavenger only T-Rex sprouting wings and flying off to the mythical land where 50 foot tall Deinocherous and 60 foot long Spinosaurs rule the world.
from Usen, age 20, ?, ?, USA; July 24, 2001


Me Again!How Fast Could Spinosaurus Run?
from Euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; July 20, 2001

TOM: We honestly don't know how fast Spinosaurus could run, in terms of miles per hour. However, based on other spinosaur specimens, most paleontologists would accept that spinosaurs were probably slower than tyrannosaurs of the same body size, because tyrannosaurs (like Tyrannosaurus, Daspletosaurus, and Albertosaurus) have longer shin bones and narrow feet with shock-absorbing structures, while spinosaurs had shorter thicker shins and had broader feet.

Still, both spinosaurs and tyrannosaurs would probably be faster than elephants.

THIS IS ONE OF THE Q'S SENT IN TO THE PAELEONTOLOGISTS ON THIS SITE. FACE THE FACTS, T.REX HATERS!
from Neil S, age 15, ?, ?, England; July 24, 2001


Horner dosen't know what he's doing! His paper about T.Rex being a scavenger along with all the movie he "consulted" is a joke! He dosen't even know enough dinosaur anatomy to tell a herbivore from a carnviore!
from Andrew P., age 12, Ok City, Ok, USA; July 24, 2001


"For the guy who asked, Deinocheirus is a mysterious dino known only by a set of arms and shoulder blades, along with some teeth, rib and vertebre fragments that were destroyed during World War II."

Who's distorting the truth here? Deinocheirus wasn't destroyed in WW2! In fact all that's found still exists today. You're mixing your dinos up. Before you post another post full of annoying mistakes with words coming out of your Dogsford Pocket Dictionary, please go read the paper one more time and get the facts straight! Mien Gott! Can you post even one post without getting the BASIC facts about Deinocheirus wrong?
"His arms are very heavy and raptor like"

Nope, raptor arms are very lightly built. Almost like spindy twigs. And for the last time, the arms were not VERY raptor like at all! They resemble that more of ostrich-dinosaurs, you can stop repeating yourself, everybody (T-Rex fan or not) knows that's a factual error.
from Shaun S., age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


Donal Glut is wrong. I doubt he even took himself seriously in that case.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


Some excited people have suggested that these are the hands of a gigantic dromie (raptor); however, Deinocheirus's hand was broader than that of the typical raptor, and unlike most raptors, Deinocheirus's first finger could not fold inward for effective grasping. Is it some kind of sloth with oversized arms? If so, it would have been quite small, in the order of 500 kilos or half a ton? Certainly able to climb trees in that case. But I do think the supposed reports about Deinocheirus teeth, stride and so on and so forth are hoaxed (I doubt any scientist even desribed them!) Worse, I checked back in earlier posts and discovered most of the teeth, tracks and so on reports were easily debunked with a few simple retroquestions. For example, how on earth do we know tracks were made by Deinocheirus when we don't even have it's feet? It's hard enough trying to identify dinosaur footprints from the species we know well. Also, none of the Deinocheirus elements ever found date to the rocks around where Spinosaurus would have lived. So I conclude one thing: who ever is trying to promote the raptor theory is making up alot of stuff. If anything, he's only spoiling the case for Deinocheirus being a raptor for all the good he's doing.
from Shaun S., age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


"In case anyone has not noticed, the post about T.Rex winning in the fight was clearly made in jest. Goodness, it's as if no one has a sense of humour anymore."

I dunno about you, but the person who first made the post (Honkie?) seems to me like he has a very good sense of humour, not to mention it seems more likely. Instead of bikering over how the fight was fixed (like everybody didn't know) like a WWF bout, he simply came up with a behind-the-scenes-look at the movie. Hehe...I like it. It happens to be more "scientific" too. Good work whoever you are! I'm so buying that story!
from Damean, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


every one who says that spinos better than trex or trex is better
than spino, listen up! yall are forgetting a dinosaur who can
kick the crap outta both of them. his nickname is the Terror
of the South. it was proven that this allosaurid dinosaur who was
about 35 ft. long and 11 feet high hunted and killed sauropods.
not like allosaurus, who hunted in packs. this dino hunted sauropods
BY HIMSELF! im talkin about the "High Spined Lizard", Acrocanthosaurus.

from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ??????; July 24, 2001


Im sick of u ppl not wanting to accept the fact that t-rex lost!
T-rex did not play dead during the fight. u wanna know how i know?
bcuz when trex was on the ground, he stopped moving. then spino
began to tear chunks of flesh off of trex. furthermore, rex did
not show up during the rest of the movie, indicating he was dead.
Also, according to sum scientists, spino had a body built very
similar to T-rex, but had much longer arms. wat im saying is is that
Rex had everything he needed to be the ultimate predator except for
formidable arms. Spino (according to scientists) has everything Rex
has, but much longer arms. Why did spino eat fish? maybe he simply
prefered the taste of seafood!

from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ?; July 24, 2001


"People purposly distort the truth to make T.Rex look better- like saying Deinocheirus was lightly built etc. That's pure hogwash. His arms are very heavy and raptor like, the rib and vertebre fragments were soild (unlike the egg stealers misinformers try to link him to) and the teeth were allosaurus like but much larger- up to 8 inches. In fact, Deinocheirus teeth were attributed to the teeth found imbeded in the 1915 Spinosaur. This thing hunted Spinosaurs... this was one bad mudda. "

You nut! Deinocheirus and Spinosaurus never met (they aren't even on the same time and place, seperated by 12 million years and 3,000 miles!). The teeth look like they are from Carcharodontosaurus, who would have certaily prey on Spinosaurus!
from Damean, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


Erm, erm, what's up with saying "erm"? A shortcut to thinking? Let's all say it togther now... "Errrmmmm...." As for a "rather normal 23 feet at the shoulders"... what planet are you from? Where is that "normal"?!? A T.Rex was 15 feet at the shoulders. Even using your UNDERSIZED ESTIMATE of 23 feet at the shoudlers we're still talking and additonal 10 feet for the neck and head (23+10=33 feet tall). But as you can see from the Orn. illustration, it's more like 50 feet, with the raptor illustration over 30 feet as well. People can see for themselves. Go look.

I see there's no having a normal conversation with all of you T.Rex disciples. "The Spino sucks. The Giggy sucks. Even a 50 foot tall carnovorie sucks". Uhhh.... ok, whatever. I have better things to do than argue about how a 50 foot tall raptor would absolutely DESTROY the punny 20 foot tall T.Rex. What's the T.Rex gonna do? Bite his ankles to death??

We all know who the baddest mamma-jamma was and his name was Deinocheirus, the 12-inch clawed, 8-inched toothed, Spino eating, sauropod hunting genetic freak of the donosaur world.
from Erm, age 14 erms, Erm City, Erm State, Erm Land; July 24, 2001


The fight scene in JP3 was fast, furious, and about as believable as Bill Clinton saying that he was "clean".

Whatdaya stupid? Spinosaurus will get his friggin arse fried in real life, it dosen't even take a T.Rex to do it (that's overkill)! Heck, a Carcharodontosaurus could do it. No...even a Ceratosaurus could do it...Spinosaurus? You gotta beat these guys for me!
from C.E.R.A.T.O, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


I like the T.Rex as it beat the Spinosaurus in the fight.

Actually the T.Rex was so confident of beating Spinosaurus, it didn't even bother to bite hard and even let the Spiny get away. (We know that it's impossible to shake free from the kind of grip T.Rex got on Spino unless T.Rex allowed it)

And when Spinosaurus bit T.Rex in fear and self-defense (if you listen carefully, you'll hear Spinosaurus peeing in fear as he figths the T.Rex), T.Rex was so bored and unaffected with the poor parody of something that Spinosaurus calls a bite (heh..heh...that tickels Spiny...bite a little up will ya, I got an itch there...) that he fell asleep.

The Spinosaurus is seen looking confused at the sleeping T.Rex but decides to thank his lucky stars and run away.

Thus T.Rex wins, and it's not even surprising nor do the T.Rex fans have to cook something up to make themselves feel better. Everybody simply knows Spinosaurus was a complete whimp and that Spinosaurus fans just cannot take it that their dinosaur ran like a wuss away from T.Rex. Spinosaurus can never beat a T.Rex. It's about as unlikely as air travel and gene-splicing back in the stone age.

By the way, I'm a Ceratosaurus fan.
from C.E.R.A.T.O, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


I agree, any paleontologist who had made a close study on Deinocheirus arms conclude these were almost certainly not from raptors. In fact, the only paleontologists I've heard saying Deinocheirus might have been a raptor are those who haven't done much research at all besides taking a passing glance at the arms and remarking they are "raptor-like". Closer study indicates this isn't true. For goodness sake! The claws are actually not curved enough and too blunt to be used for killing. Defense maybe, but not killing! Deinocheirus claws are blunt and wide, unlike the almost cat-like claws of the raptors. And who was the nut who said the "raptor" theory is modern and new? Is 1993 new? No! The "raptor" theory is dead, debunked and discredited!
from A True Spinosaurus fan, age ?, Spino cool, Spino rules, Spino rocks; July 24, 2001


SpinosaurusFanForLife, are you a JP3 Spinosaurus fan or are you a real Spinosaurus fan? Because a real Spinosaurus was only 49 feet long and weighted 4.5 tons and was never a match for any super predator in his region. In fact, he faced regular predation from crocidiles and giant allosaurids in his region. Unlike the JP3 Spinosaurus, the real Spinosaurus had rather small teeth that were conocial shaped and made for spearing fish, not attacking large animals. In fact, his teeth had no recurvature and serrations at all. He had the adapations for fishing and hunting small animals, not large animals. If he wasn't careful, he could actually end up on the menu of some other more powerful dinosaur.

Well...Spinosaurus dosen't look so attractive now? But if you are a true Spinosaurus fan, accept this, if not, let the whole paleontological world lague at you as you embrace the JP3 Spinosaurus, a dinosaur that never existed. I am a fan of the true Spinosaurus and he's my favourite dinosaur, and he dosen't have to be a superpredator for me to like him. But for goodness sake, please stop going around saying it can beat T-Rex or something because JP3 is just a movie and if the other dino fans go around checking what you said, they'll see that Spinosaurus is not what it was in the movie and sterotype all other Spinosaurus fans as people who don't know anything about dinosaurs beside what they are shown on JP3 and nobody will take us seriously. In fact, they might even start siding with T-Rex and make us more of a laughing stock that JP3 already made us out to be!

To all T-Rex fans, don't worry. Spinosaurus could never, ever, ever hold something like a fair chance against a superpredator like T-Rex. I apologize for the extremly scientificly-incorrect points and statements made by JP3 and all the Spinosaurus fans who didn't know better. Let's make sure its only accucrate Spinosaurus specs that get discussed here. This JP3 thing is making Spinosaurus look bad! In fact, I've been to a few dino forums and virtually everybody (even T-Rex haters) are laughing at the way Spinosaurus was shown. Spinosaurus wasn't pathetic, but by inflating it in JP3 (or endorsing it for example), it sends out a message that Spinofans have a infority complex and that Spinosaurus is so pathetic, it needs such a serious boosting in the movie!

Let every Spinosaurus fan divorce ourselves from JP3, it's not good for our dinosaur. In the short term in generates alot of intrest and its good for our egos, but in the long term people will know the truth that Spino was not that mean and start scoffing at us. Velociraptor fans are victims of this syndrom, some even stubbornly believe that Velociraptor was 6 feet tall to this day, and nobody takes them seriously at all. Lets not make the same mistake as them and endorse the JP3 Spinosaurus, or else we might end up like them!
from A True Spinosaurus Fan, age ?, Spino rocks, Spino rules, Spino cool; July 24, 2001


"with this intrputation (Ornithisaur) we're talking over 50 feet tall!!! "

Erm, I have the picture in the book too. I scanned it into adobe, put the length of the arms at 2.8 meters and he came out at a rather normal 23 feet at the shoulders. (It's convention to measure animals from the shoulders, not the head.)

"Here's what they'd look like from the more modern raptor theory:"

Erm, actually the raptor theory is an OLD theory. I believe the Ornithisaur theory is more accucrate and lasting under fire. And in any case, it's rather ridiculus for it to simply be a scaled up raptor in the picture. Raptor leg bone proportions are EXCLUSIVELY for small to medium animals only. It simply wouldn't work caled up to your sizes. In any case, the raptor theory is what we like to believe, but it simply dosen't hold the money, not to mention it's outdated too. (It died with the end of raptor-mania after JP). In any case, a raptor that size will NOT be 30 feet tall (I scaled it too) and will only weight a pitiful 3.5-4 tons. (I scaled it too). The Ornithisaur version is certianly more probable. Not to mention the hands of Deinocheirus did have some rather major difference with that of the raptors. Nope, the raptors are certianly out.
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


"I can't even begin about you Leonard.First of all,your little conclusion about the Rex/Spino fight is outrageous and untrue.You cannot face it that rex lost,even though he should not have so quickly.It is physically impossible for a Tyranosaurus to get up so quickly.Plus you could hear the neck crack.And if rex bit spino's neck it would not go flying off.He would have to have teeth like and axe or something. ..."

Erm, fossil T.rex bite marks indicate they didn't even bother to axe or grind when they bit into Triceratops frill. They simply and easily punched a hole in it. Even if T.rex didn't break Spino's neck, the flesh wounds would have been bad enough to kill him.

"T-rex did not have 12 inch teeth,he had 6 inch teeth.The teeth would be outrageously long and he would not be able to bite anything because his jaws would not open wide enough to get a formadle bite obn anything.He'd starve to death."

Actually this is half true. the 12-inch teeth of T-rex are found on the side (for your information, the largest dinosaur tooth is from T.rex, and it's 14-inches!). The 6-inchers you mention are the front nipper teeth, delta in cross-section to cause a horrible flesh wound in the case of a lack of bone contact. Enough to finish off Spinosaurus anyway. Spinosaurus on the other hand, had the wrong teeth in the movie! Besides, jaw articulation experiment and bite- mark investigation indicate that T.Rex could open his jaws almost 90 degrees. Given he had a 1.5 meter skull and using simple maths. Unless he had 32-inch teeth, he wouldn't have any trouble feeding.

Anyway, it's a lose-lose situtation for Spinosaurus. Both ways he loses. Why? Judging from the fight scene, only two possibilities are possible: 1)The match was fixed (aka, not counted) 2)T.rex actually won but it wasn't shown. Either both ways Spinosaurus loses by default.
from Leonard, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


"MIGHTY DEINOCHIRUS?? WHOO-HAHAHAHAHAHA! PITIFUL. HOW NAIVE CAN SOME PEOPLE BE???"

That is so true
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


"Given this newly realized CROC-FORCED bite "

Actually besides shape, Spinosaurus skull was VERY different from that of a crocidile! It did not harbour too powerful a bite at all. And morever, crocidiles do not bite particuarly hard, alligators (with a different head shape) do. And T.Rex bit three times harder than an alligator.

"He bit on Spinosaurus's neck, and i do not think T-rex bit for the hech of it, Im pretty sure he bit to kill. For one, he had prey to defend, for two, hes not going to let Spinosaurus, trample his territory. He did not devise this grand scenario you are useing to make yourselves feel better with. "

Actually, T.rex had prey to defend, and territory too. The only reason why he or she had to come up with the plan is because the movie required the Spino to survive. Anyway this argument is moot as Spinosaurus is shown the loser later in the movie by turning up. And the dung on the side of the river didn't contain any T.Rex remains and looked like they came from a very frightened Spinosaurus as theyu were green and loose. (A carnivore under extreme stress generates that kind of dung) all in all, the evidence points strongly towards Spinosaurus losing the fight.
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


"Supposing Spinosaurus did tear free of T-rex's devastating bite. The holes left in it's throat would be extreme, and the verterbrae hidden beneath would likely have crack, snappled, and popped. And if not, at the very least blood would now be gushing out of Spino's neck by the gallonfull. Yet, Spinosaurus takes no real damage at all, and goes on to be featured in the rest of the film. Not even a scratch on it's neck! Absolutely impossible, and unreal."

I think we have to go with what Honkie said: T.Rex had a cunning plan to let Spinosaurus off so easily. He certainly was playing possum in that scene! Spinosaurus must have been shocked to see his opponent "rise" from the dead and attack him for real this time!

"Perhaps a tall fin when standing in the water would create the illusion of height, and thus the higher the fin, the greater the "illusionary" defense? Could Spinosaurs' length also serve to help it's agility in water? It's lightly built compared to T-Rex, likely longer than T-Rex, and has a fin. I think of Spino as something that used that extra length and lighter bulk to help in swimming, and used it's fin to freighten other Spinosaurs, and attract would be mates. What does everyone think? "

Actually, Spinosaurus was large mainly to deter predators, not to be a predator, unlike T.Rex. The morphlogy of the two animals suggest that. However, a real Spinosaurus is certianly much smaller than it was shown in JP3 though! (I suspect even Horner's estimates were inflated in JP3!)
from Josh, age 13, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


JP3: Behind the scenes.

Come to think of it, I do kinda agree that it's quite possible the T.Rex actually defeated the Spinosaurus in the fight, but it wasn't shown, nor did the movie makers intend it to be. But making the T.Rex vs. Spinosaurus fight to boost publicity for Spinosaurus seems to have backfired badly.

Yes, I did find it strange when T.Rex did not kill Spinosaurus outright when it bit it on the neck in the opening moments of the fight (Given T.Rex bit over nine times harder than it, and that Spinosaurus had very lightly built neck veterbre). T.Rex is obviously doing this on purpose as he has a cunning plan.

And also, I find it odd when T.Rex "died" so easily when Spinosaurus bit in on the neck. We do know for a fact it's virtually impossible for Spinosaurus to break a T.Rex neck as it's bite, though not pathetic, is not anywhere near as strong to crack a T.Rex neck (even other T.Rex have a problem cracking the necks of thier species, as fossil records shows. Stephen the T.Rex was bitten through the lower spine, which was considerably lighter than the neck vetrebre). So that forces me to one conclusion: The T.Rex was pretending to have a broken neck.

Now, also, we see T.Rex fall and slide along the ground rather dramatically. However, we do know that Spinosaurus did not have anywhere near enough strength in its long, slender neck to really throw a 6-ton animal like that. Having watched the movie many times, I have noticed that it looked more like the T.Rex was ACTING the part, behaving like a bagged mallard to improve the illusion he was truly dead.

What can I say? The fight scene ends with Spinosaurus standing over T.Rex and getting ready to eat. But off screen, I'll bet the T.Rex suddenly scared the living daylights out of the Spinosaurus by "becoming" alive again and snapping at it, this time at full force. This display of agression must have been extremely frightening for Spinosaurus (as evident by his green "scared" dung and long distance from the intinal incident of T.Rex revival). T.Rex, now having the upper hand, intended to run down Spinosaurus and kill him, but fortunately for the Spinosaurus, Joe Johnston stepped in at the last moment and pleaded with the T.Rex to let the Spinosaurus go, lest it kills off the main villian of the movie and removes most of the action. T.Rex grudgingly agrees and trunges back to the animal he was feeding on while Spinosaurus makes sure he's far...far away.

"I'm glad to see Deinocheirus finaly fetting his props. Good post Walther. To a full grown Deinocheirus, a T.Rex would indeed be but a nice snack, no matter what theory (rapotor or ornithomimosaur) is correct. "

Actually, if it was an ornithomimosaur, it would have been a nice snack for the superpredators of the gobi. Instead of catching those small, lean ornithomimosaurs, Deinocheirus would have seemed like a nice, fat meal with enough for many weeks. And those 30-cm claws are not going to save him in that case...

"Unbelievable- here we have a confirmed 30 foot tall carnovoire, quite possibly up to to 50 feet (taller than all but the mightiest sarupods) and still the T-Rexers refuse to accept the facts."

Erm, those are actually based on fantastic and unprobabble estimates on holotype or undescribed material. A carnivore in India said to be 30 meters long and weighting 55 tons has been scaled down. As it turned out, it was only a herbivore. Heck, if we wanted to play it this way, there has been some fossil evidence from T.Rex that indicates he got much larger than he was ever thought. I'll grab the highest estimate: 60 feet tall! There you have it. Even with people grabbing unprobable superestimates, T.Rex still comes out tops.

"And yes a Spinosaur could kill a T-Rex. This argument is getting ridiculous. If the Spino got the jump he'd be in good shape. Vice-versa for the T-Rex. Rex had the stronger bite, but Spino's was certinaly strong enough."

Actually, the only place a Spinosaurus could actually cause serious harm to a T.Rex is the neck. Meanwhile, a T.Rex could bite almost any part of Spinosaurus with serious results. To the contray to your "but Spino's was certinaly strong enough.", the jaws of Spinosaurs indicate they had a rather weak bite. Not pathetic, but rather on the par of modern wolves and medium bears but certainly below that of a modern lion or croc. T.Rex had a much, much stronger bite.
from Josh, age 13, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


What's the point on speculating on Deinocheirus? We've only got arms, they could belong to anything, from a giant sloth-like therapod to The Most Fersome Predator To Walk The EarthTM. In fact, what are the points to all these "My Dinosaur Is Better" fights??? As if people could not waste more time.

Why don't we wait until someone actually digs a Deinocheirus out of the ground and then continue?

And, why don't we provide more evidence for each case, such as hyperlinks, book extracts, etc. , so that at least we have credible arguments. Include publishers, dates and titles. Ignore all other arguments as obviously the poster did not do his/her research. Maybe JC could make this standard policy (please?)
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


In case anyone has not noticed, the post about T.Rex winning in the fight was clearly made in jest. Goodness, it's as if no one has a sense of humour anymore.
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 24, 2001


I'm glad to see Deinocheirus finaly fetting his props. Good post Walther. To a full grown Deinocheirus, a T.Rex would indeed be but a nice snack, no matter what theory (rapotor or ornithomimosaur) is correct.

Unbelievable- here we have a confirmed 30 foot tall carnovoire, quite possibly up to to 50 feet (taller than all but the mightiest sarupods) and still the T-Rexers refuse to accept the facts.

And yes a Spinosaur could kill a T-Rex. This argument is getting ridiculous. If the Spino got the jump he'd be in good shape. Vice-versa for the T-Rex. Rex had the stronger bite, but Spino's was certinaly strong enough.
from Q, age Q, Q, Q, Q; July 23, 2001


Hi everyone, I have several things which I would like to cover, so I'll get started right away. First on JP3.. I've always been a large fan of the films (even the second and third) not so much for the acting (obviously) the plots, or even the scientiffic accuracy of the dinos. And no, I don't really care for, or even recognize the horror aspect either.

What really keeps me coming back is the chance to see such stunning renditions of these beasts. I like to think of the dinos as actors themselves, in that they are behaving in a manner that the script calls for. Now, onto JP3 itself. The film was a bit of a dissapointment to me, mostly for personal reasons, and due to the increase in misinformation. The Deionychus sized beasts are still reffered to as raptors, even after the discovery of the too large for JP Utah raptor was unearthed. The dactyls in the film, while visually impressive, sure were given one heck of an odd role.

I have to go with those that vote on a human over the dactyls. Though I will say that a dactyl may be able to inflict harm with it's beak. This tactic would ultimately hurt the dactyl more since it would likely fall to the ground. These flying reptiles, didn't really fly. They glided. This means they couldn't take to the sky whenever they want to, no more than the human. Conditions have to be proper. I have to agree that they were just too fragile to take on a human.

Now for Spinosaurus. I think I'll support those that think Spino was longer than T-Rex. It doesn't seem impossible. But I just can't support the idea of a Spinosaurus doing all of the things that it did in JP3. Furthermore, the fact that they have a perfectly good dino who can crash through gates, and smash small passenger planes, in T-Rex and they have Spinosaurus off him not long into the film pretty much took the enjoyment of it out for me. T-Rex is my favorite dinosaur, and always will be.

This doesn't go to say that I think T-Rex is indestructible (though reading some other messages here, thinking so might not seem so off) but I just can't imagine how a reported fish eater could stand long against the king tyrant lizard. The only scene featuring the Spinosaur that I liked, was the ironically suitable and character fitting water scene, in which Spinosaurus tries fishing the silly humans out of that cage.

To be fair to whoever decided to throw this Spino, T-Rex fight together, let's ignore all facts for the time being, and allow this match to happen with the sats given to us by the JP3 site. Spino is supposedly 60 feet, and 12 tons. T-Rex is 45+ feet and 8 tons isn't it? T-Rex actually gets the first strike in this battle on film. I just can't imagine how even this steroid beefed upped Spinosaur could survive T-Rex's initial strike.

Supposing Spinosaurus did tear free of T-rex's devastating bite. The holes left in it's throat would be extreme, and the verterbrae hidden beneath would likely have crack, snappled, and popped. And if not, at the very least blood would now be gushing out of Spino's neck by the gallonfull. Yet, Spinosaurus takes no real damage at all, and goes on to be featured in the rest of the film. Not even a scratch on it's neck! Absolutely impossible, and unreal.

Looking back to reality now, I find myself wondering if this fight would have even occured. Predators usually avoid conflicts if possible against anything big enough to pose any kind of a real threat. I would think that T-Rex and Spino could have settled this with body/language, posturing, and or roaring, before they started the bone breaking. Given, under the conditions of the film, Spino was likely in the area because it smelled T-Rex's kill, and may have wanted to claim some scraps for itself.

Of course some smaller prey items show up, and Spino tries it's hand at these. One has to wonder though why a T-Rex would abandon such a large kill in order to chase retreating, small, unthreating, but potential scrap thieves so very far and right into Spinosaurus. Given the set up that JP3 used, I don't think T-Rex would have backed down, due to the proximity of the kill, so it would have likely been Spino who would have fled.

Then again, it can be argued that Spinosaurus may not have any instincts to deal with a T-Rex, and the lack of a fin may leave it thinking that it can top the enemy. My final summary of this match up would be the following. It's like imagining Tyson Vs. Michael Jordan in a boxing match. One may have a size advantage, but the other has a weight advantage, and can take out the competition in less hits.

A dose of reality now in case anyone is still reading. I've been thinking about Spinosaurus a good deal as of late. And most seem to think that the fin is used for mating/or cooling. I've come to a somewhat different theory though. If Spinosaurus truly fed mostly on fish, (which I believe it likely did, considering it's great length, and lighter weight/weaker teeth) this would mean that the species spent a fair amount of time around/in water. After looking at pictures of Spino's head, and comparing it to a Crocs, I came up with this idea.

Maybe the fin could have been a defense mechanism, as well as a mate attractor? Think about it. Modern day alligators rarely attack humans because they don't recognise length when judging size, but rather height. To a two foot tall, 10 foot long gator, even a five foot tall human would look like a giraffe. Now given that Spinosaurus may have spent much of it's time at water, and a pond/lake/river or whatever was it's hunting ground, Spino would likely defend this territory.

Perhaps a tall fin when standing in the water would create the illusion of height, and thus the higher the fin, the greater the "illusionary" defense? Could Spinosaurs' length also serve to help it's agility in water? It's lightly built compared to T-Rex, likely longer than T-Rex, and has a fin. I think of Spino as something that used that extra length and lighter bulk to help in swimming, and used it's fin to freighten other Spinosaurs, and attract would be mates. What does everyone think?

Finally, on Giganotosaurus, I'm interested in the theories on this guy? I know his stats etc. But with a jaw/teeth weaker than T-Rex, a heavier body, and longer length, what did this thing eat? He certainly wasn't a fisherman, and I doubt he could outhunt Allosaurus given his weaker teeth, and smaller arms, so what did this giant do when his bloated belly would rummble?
from Usen, age 20, ?, ?, USA; July 23, 2001


O.K. I think you guys who are making too much of the whole T-Rex Spinosaurus thing need to really go see the movie one more time, and this time remember its a movie and enjoy it! But, lets play your game now. Spinosautus Vs. T-Rex is really a fight left to the talents of the individual animals. A fight that probably never happened (or maybe did since T-rex lived in Mongolia and Spinosaurus lived in lower Asia too, not in the same time period, but then again in places like south Texas, South America, Africa, we today say pterasaurs still mightlive, research the lore). O.K. we have no real complete fossils of Spinosaurus as we do of T-rex, so we have to make our assumptions careful. But, Spinosaurus was a crocodile like creature which means he probably had a Viscious bite!!! and like the nile crocodile probably was only weak in opening it. I have come to these conclusions because Spinosaurus is not a bird-hipped dino like T-rex, but a lizzard ! hipped dino....making him a probable croc-like creature (especially since he is only found where crocs are today!!!). Given this newly realized CROC-FORCED bite I do believe Spinosaurus was as formidible opponent for the T-rex. Please guys lets be real though, T-rex could have won the fight, he just didnt in this scenario. He bit on Spinosaurus's neck, and i do not think T-rex bit for the hech of it, Im pretty sure he bit to kill. For one, he had prey to defend, for two, hes not going to let Spinosaurus, trample his territory. He did not devise this grand scenario you are useing to make yourselves feel better with. He lost, got munched, and WAS seen later on the side of the river in fecal-form...sorry, he was. maybe he should have answered the phone and taken that vacation the recording offered, because T-rex needs one...hes tired, and thats why he lost the fight, people need something new, its not that he couldnt have won, he just didnt in this case. For those that an! alyze this, let me bust some reality, you say Spinosaurus couldnt have eaten T-rex because his dung was green? when you eat something, is it the same color as when it comes out, i dont mean to be gross, but get real, so what Spinosaurus dung was green....ours is different colored than what we eat. Plus Spinosaurus ate nothing else that could have produced that much dung. Furthermore, at the gate, he wasnt looking for yet another T-rex's butt to kick, he was looking at the people, and ran only when they did...try running from a barking dog sometime and see what he does...chases you, right. As far as the plans to have another T-rex beat Spinosaurus later, im not sure, and personally do not care, because it would have ruined the movie. In JP1, did they let the ensuing raptors beat T-rex? Or for that matter did they let some Stegosaur, or Triceratops beat T-rex, no, he was the super predator that people loved so they couldnt do it....same for Spinosaurus, it would have ruined it. For those who say Stego or Triceratops couldnt beat T-rex, are sorely mistaken...even a lion attacking a waterbuffalo can get killed by the horns. Well, my point is for Spinosaurus fans to speak up, look at me, Im a T-rex fan to the bone....but can just accept when hes been beat. Better luck to the next T-rex who fights, maybe hell win, and not fall prey to the jaws of spinosaurus. I would also like ot mention that Spinosaurus used his powerful arms and claws to break T-rex neck, not his jaws alone. His usable arms reached the T-rex below and.....SNAP!!!! T-rex was a T-ex. And no, sorry, i do not believe that T-rex was a faker like you say, he had too much at stake, and isnt that clever. Dinosaurs didnt fight just to fight you know, that wasted precious energy, and who knew when they would eat again, so I believe that even my beloved T-rex out his all, and lost. No one gives this new Spinosaurus enough credit, he was a super predator. -Nuff said...Im out! Speak up Spinosaurus fans!
from SpinosaurusFanForLife, age ?, ?, T-Exas, ?; July 23, 2001


CERATOSAURUS INGENS IS THE MIGHTIEST!!! TREMBLE IN FEAR DEINOCHEIRUS!
from C. INGENS, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


MIGHTY DEINOCHIRUS?? WHOO-HAHAHAHAHAHA! PITIFUL. HOW NAIVE CAN SOME PEOPLE BE???
from C. INGENS, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


Man, that post about Deinocherius is so ridiculously off that I won't even waste the effort of pointing out its errors.
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


I can't even begin about you Leonard.First of all,your little conclusion about the Rex/Spino fight is outrageous and untrue.You cannot face it that rex lost,even though he should not have so quickly.It is physically impossible for a Tyranosaurus to get up so quickly.Plus you could hear the neck crack.And if rex bit spino's neck it would not go flying off.He would have to have teeth like and axe or something. ...
from J, age 16, Atlanta, Georgia, America; July 23, 2001


T-rex did not have 12 inch teeth,he had 6 inch teeth.The teeth would be outrageously long and he would not be able to bite anything because his jaws would not open wide enough to get a formadle bite obn anything.He'd starve to death.
from J, age 16, Atlanta, Georgia, America; July 23, 2001


No no no, actually T.rex was playing dead. He alter got up and scared the Spinosaursu away. It's just wasn't shown.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


Why do you T.Rex fans keep dissing the mighty Deinocheirus? Are you jealous of the fact that he actually had arms and wasn't reduced to a armless scavenger like T.Rex? As Horner said, T.Rex was designed to do one thing- scavenge. His teeth are most indicitve of this- yet you all over look this. The truth hurts I guess.

For the guy who asked, Deinocheirus is a mysterious dino known only by a set of arms and shoulder blades, along with some teeth, rib and vertebre fragments that were destroyed during World War II.

People purposly distort the truth to make T.Rex look better- like saying Deinocheirus was lightly built etc. That's pure hogwash. His arms are very heavy and raptor like, the rib and vertebre fragments were soild (unlike the egg stealers misinformers try to link him to) and the teeth were allosaurus like but much larger- up to 8 inches. In fact, Deinocheirus teeth were attributed to the teeth found imbeded in the 1915 Spinosaur. This thing hunted Spinosaurs... this was one bad mudda.

30 feet tall is a rather conservative estimate actually. It is now starting to be accepted that Deinocheirus was a form of super-raptor. If so, scaled up with those 12 foot arms(with 12 inch claws!) we're talking WELL over 30 feet standing fully erect. Bare minimum. Even if it was some type of rabid Ornithomimosaur like it was ONCE believed, we're still talking over 30 feet tall with ease. You do the math and scale comparison yourself. I belive Donald Glut knows what he talking about. He did a famous paper on this subecct and concluded the same (raptor, min. 35 feet tall, 12+ tons, etc.)

Here's a picture of his arms:
http://www.dinomore.com/media_common/gallerypics/Deinocheirus_12.jpg

Here's what the old theory thought it might look like:
http://flood.nhm.ac.uk/cgi-bin/dino/img/deinoc.jpg
with this intrputation (Ornithisaur) we're talking over 50 feet tall!!!

Here's what they'd look like from the more modern raptor theory:
http://www.cbv.ns.ca/marigold/history/dinosaurs/datafiles/deinonychuspic.jpg

I can imagine what a 20 foot tall scavenger like T.Rex would do when faced with a 30-50 foot tall 12 ton Deinocheirus armed with 8 inch teeth and 12 inch claws- RUN!!!
from Walther, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


honky tong i bet u dont know who won in JP3 ua fake
from S.R, age ????, ????, ????, ????; July 23, 2001


robert, when the airplane crashed into spino's head, the blood was from the guy in his mouth.
from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ??????; July 23, 2001


actually leonard if u look closly after the fight, Spino won.
After the ppl run away from the two titans, t-rex is thrown
to the ground and stops moving. then spino begins to feed on
rex's dead carcass.

from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ??????; July 23, 2001


I really doubt Deinocheirus would be over 30 feet tall. Scaling up from Ornithomimidae gives a height of about 25 feet.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 23, 2001


Dear Sirs:

For you to even suggest that the Tyrannosaurus rex osborn could face a serious challenge in the Spinosaurus--much less risk defeat--shows a total lack of respect for my published work, my many speeches, and my admiration which instructed me to kill all of the other members of my herd for the sake of securing a Tyrannosaurus rex osborn warrior for use as an unstoppable biological weapon.

As a highly sophisticated super-intelligent hardosaur brought back in the distant future and living in the distant past, I have extensive files relating to every aspect of Earth biology and the potential threat posed by all its various organisms; and since the whole "Spinosaurus in Africa" escapade took place in what is my past, I have long studied the combat prowess of these Spinosaurus.

It was with that in mind that I made my final assessment on the Tyrannosaurus rex osborn (or as you so crassly call them, the "T.rex"). To repeat, they are "a perfect organism". Since they are perfect, it follows that the Spinosaurus are inferior. I much regret that you chose to ignore all my hard work.

Sincerely,
Hardosaurus's disembodied head

from Hardosaurus's disembodied head, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


Dear Sirs:

For you to even suggest that the Tyrannosaurus rex osborn could face a serious challenge in the Allosaurus--much less risk defeat--shows a total lack of respect for my published work, my many speeches, and my admiration which instructed me to kill all of the other members of my herd for the sake of securing a Tyrannosaurus rex osborn warrior for use as an unstoppable biological weapon.

As a highly sophisticated super-intelligent hardosaur brought back in the distant future and living in the distant past, I have extensive files relating to every aspect of Earth biology and the potential threat posed by all its various organisms; and since the whole "Spinosaurus in Africa" escapade took place in what is my past, I have long studied the combat prowess of these Spinosaurus.

It was with that in mind that I made my final assessment on the Tyrannosaurus rex osborn (or as you so crassly call them, the "T.rex"). To repeat, they are "a perfect organism". Since they are perfect, it follows that the Spinosaurus are inferior. I much regret that you chose to ignore all my hard work.

Sincerely,
Hardosaurus's disembodied head

from Hardosaurus's disembodied head, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


Spinosaurus vs. T-rex, lots of bytes have been spilled over this.

Inconsequential.

Undoubtedly, it will all come down to a jaw to jaw, tooth to tooth street brawl. And if you're a betting person, keep in mind that bone crushing teeth will slice through and mince scaley reptile flesh, bone, internal organ and nerve tissue like a hot knife through butter, like a piano string through tofu, or like a arab terrorist through US customs. Tyrannosaurus dominance supreme.
from Hassan Ali Hammy, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


Deinocheirus is weak... he had like what? Six 12-inch claws? Ha! T.rex had over ten 12-inch teeth, and the rest of his teeth were also very big and powerful too. Deinocheirus is going down.....he's nothing but a giant whimp.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


It could almost be paradise
but on this island
where man has tampered with nature
something has been cultivated

Agrotechnology Park ///
Coming July 2001

from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


What the hell is Deinocheirus? It ain't on Zoomdinosaurs.com, and i've never heard of it in my life. 30ft tall my (*&! the biggest raptor was megaraptor, 30ft long.
from Dead Man, age 15, ?, ?, England; July 23, 2001


"The giant spinosaur in JP3 is based on undescribed material rather than pure imagination, says paleoartist Jordan Mallon, who e-mailed Jack Horner regarding the much-discussed dinosaur."

I believe the "undescribed material" is actually in refrence to a rumoured seven-foot skull in a private collection. Of course, one must realize that Spinosaurus in life would still have not been as formidible as he was show in the movie. And the morphlogy of the JP3 Spinosaurus is certainly "altered" to make it meaner. No matter, it still lost the fight despite the retrofits. It also seems to me that Horner has a very poor understanding of Spinosaurus (or Tyrannosaurus for that matter) morphlogy altogether!

Of course, I wish they'll base the T.rex on "undescribed material" and put one Imperator-sized T.rex in the movie! Wohoo! That'll be fun!
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


"Did t.rex realy defeat spinosaurus,in jp3?"

Actually according to Honkie, if you watch the movie carefully, you'll realize that T.rex won the fight by chasing Spinosaurus far away like a pansy Spino really was. And I agree. It's not shown on screen as the movie focuses on the people after the fight. But we can draw a few basic conclusions that the T.rex was most probably playing possum in the supposed "death" scene, and later rose again to scare the living daylights out of the Spino (presumbly by snapping at him this time for REAL). Look at this, T.rex was a smart animal, he wouldn't confront Spino so willingly like he did in the movie unless he had a good plan and apparently it worked. Much to the dismay of the humans as the Spinosaurus decided to go for much easier prey that did not fight back after losing the fight (he must be really scared #$%^less by T.rex), thus giving the humans alot of trouble.
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


About this Spino, T.rex thing. I think the general consensus here is that the odds are in the favour of T.rex.

Ps: I still can't get over the Honkie explaination of how T.rex actually won the fight! It's a damn good argument!
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


Another post on JP3

"So T.rex gives Spinosaurus a light bite on the throat and lets Spino gets a fix on his. He pretends to die after and does a rather dramatic flip onto his side after Spino has "broken" his neck (or so Spino though). After the pesky humans have evacuated and away from the cameras, Spino prepares to tuck into his meal of T.rex when the Tyrannosaurus suddenly gets up amazingly fast and lunges at him, snapping at his neck with a full-fledged, attack bite of his amazing 20,000 newtons. Spino manages to draw away just in time to avoid a nasty snap that would have sent his severed head flying into the tree tops and realizes T.rex is a far meaner customer than he had imagined. The Spinosaurus rapidly and wisely makes like a tree and got the hell out of the clearing while T.rex decides it's too much trouble to kill the now-oversized Spineless-saurus happily gets back on his feet and resumes tucking into the carcass he was so rudely interrupted from a few minutes ago. "

This is most likely what happened! If not we would not be seeing the Spinosaurus later in the movie as a T.rex would have kept him fed for very long (and kept him away from the movie). I never though of that Honkie! Good one! Ironically by making Spinosaurus appear so much in the movie, the producers have invertantly implied that it lost the fight!
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


"Deinocheirus would kill all of them with his 12 inch claws. T.Rex and Spino all fear Deinocheirus. Over 30 feet tall. Over 10 tons. The king of the dinosaurs!"

Erm actually Deinocheirus was more of a mega-whimp. His claws were too blunt to actually cause much laceration when he used them. And it's unlikely he weighted 10 tons at all. 4-5 tons is more accucrate and he must have been painfully lightly-built, as suggested by the lightness of his bones. And Deinocheirus actually means terrible arms, T.rex was the true King of Dinosaurs.

Hehe Honkie, now I know why the JP3 battle scene seemed so odd. Spinosaurus actually LOST the fight and had to run away from T.rex, thus he was stalking the humans the next day so far away from the area of the fight. Had he won the fight, he would have stayed back and eaten the carcasses of the animals he just killed and we'll not see him for the rest of the movie. The fact that we saw Spinosaurus appear again in the movie after the fight automatically tells us he lost the fight. T.rex must have been still happily dining on the carcass he was feeding on, after chasing the Spinosaurus away and winning the fight by default. Good one Honkie, piercing analysis. Anybody else agree?
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 23, 2001


After seeing JP3 a second time, I realize what really happened in the final scene with the raptors. Its not the "distress call" that drives them into the forest as I initially believed. That call merely stalled the raptors long enough for the helicopters to frighten them away. If you listen closely during the silence after the "distress calls," you'll here the faint beating of a helicopter and the raptors cock their heads towards the sky. They recognize the sound, and don't wish to stick around. Thus, they confiscate their eggs and grudingly let the humans go unscathed.
from Robber Eggbert, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 22, 2001


Deinocheirus would kill all of them with his 12 inch claws. T.Rex and Spino all fear Deinocheirus. Over 30 feet tall. Over 10 tons. The king of the dinosaurs!
from PPK, age 15, ?, ?, ?; July 22, 2001


Now live - Megafauna webcast!!

Log on and post your Megafauna questions to paleontologists uncovering the remains of Megafauna in Australia's Simpson Desert.

Megafauna were huge animals - giant Kangaroos (Hadronomas puckridgei), giant birds (Dromornis stirtoni) and giant crocodiles (Baru darrowi) etc - that roamed Australia for millions of years. Dirk and Ian (Paleontologists from the Museum and Gallery of the Northern Territory) are standing by to receive your questions.

http://amol.org.au/discovernet/alcoota/index.asp

Best wishes
KevinS

Australian Museums On Line (AMOL) is a collaborative project of Federal, State and Territory governments and museums, and is the national Internet gateway to Australia's cultural heritage.
from KevinS, age 35, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia; July 22, 2001


JC, I thought we were allowed to post our e-mail if we were 13.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 22, 2001
Our company policy is not to post e-mail addresses, except for adults (and only on our teacher chat boards), and then we do it very reluctantly, after warning them about potential problems, which include serious ones (like dangerous people who might lurk at chat sites) and simply annoying ones (like being discovered by the spammers - for example, I've had over 10 megabytes of spam in the last hour alone). We do not want the responsibility for any possible negative outcomes (we're wimps -- live with it). JC


Ha ha! Very good one Honkie! Now we know that T.rex actually won the battle in JP3!

"What would happen if Triceratops charged a T.rex? Here's what I say.

Tyrannosaur would first be gored upon the horns, then would probably be pushed over from the power of Trike. T.rex would desperately flail it's arms, legs, and tail in a futile attempt to get up. Trike would then leave T.rex to bleed to death.

Why? If Trike had the charge of a elephant or rhino, then T.rex would very possibly be gored and would back off, if not killed immediately. And Trike would have the charge of a rhino, because a fully-grown Trike would have a lot of muscle."

Actually, a T.rex would not be as foolhardy to attack a Triceratops headon, considering the fact that it's outtonned by three tons by the trike. But what T.rex can do is however ambush the Triceratops from behind, tearing a large chunk from the Triceratops or breaking a few bones in the process. After the first bite, its downhill all the way for the trike. It'll be too mauled to fight back effectively and the T.rex could wait for it to bleed out. If a Trike happens to charge a T.rex however, I'm quite sure a T.rex would have gone on a search for easier prey. But it's quite unlikely that a Triceratops would have gored a T.rex easily, given the fact that T.rex was more agile and faster. In fact, fossil records showed that T.rex commonly killed and ate Triceraops. Triceratops has even been dug out from the dung of T.rex!
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 22, 2001


After seeing JP3 a second time, I realize what really happened in the final scene with the raptors. Its not the "distress call" that drives them into the forest as I initially believed. That call merely stalled the raptors long enough for the helicopters to frighten them away. If you listen closely during the silence after the "distress calls," you'll here the faint beating of a helicopter and the raptors cock their heads towards the sky. They recognize the sound, and don't wish to stick around. Thus, they confiscate their eggs and grudingly let the humans go unscathed.
from Robber Eggbert, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 22, 2001


Did t.rex realy defeat spinosaurus,in jp3?
from Sean.S, age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 22, 2001


What would happen if Triceratops charged a T.rex? Here's what I say.

Tyrannosaur would first be gored upon the horns, then would probably be pushed over from the power of Trike. T.rex would desperately flail it's arms, legs, and tail in a futile attempt to get up. Trike would then leave T.rex to bleed to death.

Why? If Trike had the charge of a elephant or rhino, then T.rex would very possibly be gored and would back off, if not killed immediately. And Trike would have the charge of a rhino, because a fully-grown Trike would have a lot of muscle.
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; July 22, 2001


Let's put this whole T-Rex vs. the dino world thing to rest, and look at the facts.
Spinosaurus. The monster of JP3, the animal would have had its butt well and truly kicked by T-Rex, Carnotaurus and Giganotosaurus. It's size is the biggest exageration ever in JP3. 60ft! The animal was around 40-50ft in length. And a lot of that was its tail. It's jaw was around 80cm, not 180cm as in JP3. It was lightly built in bones and muscle mass. Had short legs:- not exactly built for speed. It had a weak bite and a thin crocodile like jaw. It was weaker than the others. Sure, I damn well wouldn't like to face one, but against the other killers, it would have been murdered.
Giganotosaurus was 40-45ft in length, the largest so far being 44ft. It's teeth were like daggers for cutting and biting in to flesh. It was lightly built and had less muscle mass than T-Rex, making it weaker in strength. But it had a very large head filled with big teeth. And it was definately stronger than Spinosaurus.
Carnotosaurus was a less evolved version of Giganotosaurus found in Africa. It was smaller, I'm not sure of the exact size.
T-Rex: not my favourite dinosaur, I don't really like the invicible aura surrounding it. But as much as I hate to say it, it's probably true at the moment. First of all, T-Rex's bones were easily the most bulky and strongest of all 4 animals. It was much more muscular, making it stronger than the others. It's legs were long, much longer than Spinosaurus, making us believe that it and Giganotosaurus were probably quite swift. It had very large eye sockets facing foward like a predator, and also we believe it had a very acute sense of smell (note. Giganotosaurus also had these benefits.)
The main part of T-Rex's offence was it's incredibly powerful jaw. While just the jaw alone had more than 6 tonnes of crushing power, more than any known dinosaur, and also had teeth built for crushing bone. Unlike Giganotosaurus and Spinosaurus, who had dagger like teeth for tearing flesh, T-Rex had curved teeth built for crushing. One bite into a Gigantosaurus would have easily broken it's(Gigonotosaurus)neck or crushed it's skull. Or it could break any other animals legs without much trying. So in biting power, T-Rex wins hands down. Then there is brain size. T-Rex had a much larger brain case than the others, making it smarter in the way that dino intelligence is read (brain size to body size ratio). T-Rex's legs were very powerful also, and by the way the animal is built it could probably throw a very powerful kick, as it's thigh muscles were thought to be huge compared to the others. In size, the largest T-Rex found ever:- 'Sue' was 42ft in length. Giganotosaurus was 44ft. Giant differnce of 2ft there. However, another paeleontologist (the T-Rex hater Horner?) is unearthing a T-Rex thought to be 46ft long. Making it once again the biggest carnovore to walk the Earth. Then there is the infamous Rigby Rex, thought to be a giant 50ft in legnth. Now if these animals are fully grown T-Rex's, then there is reason to believe more 50ft+ T-Rex's will be dug up in the future.
Finally, T-Rex came way after all the other dino's mentioned. By 68 million years ago when T-Rex first appeared, nature had perfected the ultimate killer for the end of the dinosaurs age. T-Rex was the evolved killer of the others, the ultimate predator.

Now don't go getting all angry with me T-Rex haters, but these are the facts and we all have to face them.
from Dead Man, age 15, ?, ?, UK; July 22, 2001


"Hi Brad! Is there,any new giant meat-eaters?"

I can't think of any that were named recently, but there are some undescribed ones. There are of course some new tyrannosaur speciemns- Imperator, C-Rex- that are giants. An unnamed carcharodontosaurine related to Giganotosaurus is the largest theropod, according to Chandler's DinoDex. The giant spinosaur in JP3 is based on undescribed material rather than pure imagination, says paleoartist Jordan Mallon, who e-mailed Jack Horner regarding the much-discussed dinosaur.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 22, 2001


Simple, T-rex has been known to be a savage predator much longer than Spinosaurus has. I don't think that spinosaurus will ever be more popular than T-rex, though.
from JOE BOB B., age 11, Menlo Park, ?, ?; July 22, 2001


"Hi Brad! Is there,any new giant meat-eaters?"

There is a new giant carcharodontosaurine (rumor has it that it's larger (only slightly though) than _Giganotosaurus_). It probably won't be named/described for a couple of years...
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 22, 2001


Actually, some of you may be irked by the 90-second role T.rex played in JP3. Actually they intended T.rex to play a larger role, having another T.rex around to kick the fossil out of the Spino's butt at the river scene at the end of the show, but due to constraints in the timetable, they had to cut down T.rex's part. So all you see is Suzie (Notice the T.rex is petite compaired to other T.rexes in the other JP movies in JP3?), who has had some time to make a cameo apperance in JP3. The original plan was for the all four Tyrannosaur(including Steven) to play in the movie, but we had to cut that down to just Suzie, who stared in the movie, due to time constraints in fliming the third season of Dino Warz.

For all concerned T.rex fans, Suzie was not hurt or killed in the movie. In fact, T.rex actually won the fight! How is this so? It's actually shown in the movie but you have to look really close to notice it. Honkie should clear things up a bit with an exclusive, behind the scenes look, so pay attention. He had explained the whole thing to me and I can't say I'm not convinced! Suzie confirmed the story by informing me that was in the script too.

Yes, this is a publicity run for Dino Warz 3!
from Billy Macdraw, age 19, ?, ?, ?; July 22, 2001


yes! i'm finally gunna go see Jurassic Park Three! i'll hate the fact that Spineless-saurus will actually beat T-rex. arggg i hate the guy who made Jurasic Park Three! beleive me Steven Speilburg would never make a Spineless-saurus beat T-rex. ehhh Dino voting topic don't vote Spinosaurus vote T-rex! just because the Spinosaurus in Jurassic Park three beat T-rex doesn't mean it could really do it! ok i'm done now on to another topic if i can think of one. uhhh nevermind i gotta get dressed cause me and my mom are going to Edison. after we're gunna go see Jurassic Park Three! hey that's a nice little rhyme. see ya guys in three hours and 94 minutes!
from *Digimon*Empress*, age 8, Allamuchy, New Jersey, United States; July 22, 2001


Brad i'm not asking you this! julian lets see if you know how fast a dilophosaurs could have run!
from andrew, age 10, hmmmmmm, let me guess, i dont know; July 22, 2001


"Hey! HONCKY TONG

draw a picture of a dilophosaurus"

No problemo batman, coming up soon.

Well, I've finally managed to watch JP3 and I can't say I am not pleased with it! T.rex actually won the fight!

What? You all who saw the movie may say, how is this possible when we actually saw T.rex lose it. Well my friends, if you exaimine the movie carefully, you'll realize that T.rex actually won the fight. Here, I'll explain, it's extremely conclusive T.rex won:

WARNING! EXTREME SPOILER ALERT!

Ok, the moment I saw the grand fight, I was a little dissapointed as the whole fight lasted like? 30 seconds? I kinda expected T.rex to put up a larger fight. After the fight scene and the Singaporean audience, who loved big T was saddened by the apparent loss of the long-time champ, I noticed that the following events in the movie after the fight actually indicated that T.rex won!

Firstly, T.rex actually got the first move on Spinosaurus, biting his neck and dragging his head along the ground. But later when Spino shakes free, we notice that it's neck is barely hurt save for a few lacerations! This is incredibly strange wound inflicted by an animal that could easily punch through a Triceratops hipbone with a single bite. Obviously T.rex was biting lightly. Why? He had an ace up his erm, short sleeve. I'll eleborate later...

The second thing that was odd is that with 6-tons of a freshly killed T.rex, the Spinosaurus would have had a lot of food to last for a very long time. Oddly, just the next day, he was out hunting humans again. Why did he bother to go after our characters in that scene where Eric meets his parents when he already had an ample food supply of T.rex? The simple reason: He did not.

Thirdly, isn't it foolhardy to go back to the plane wreck to salvage stuff? Especially since this was the site of the Spinosaur attack, and not too far away the scene of the great battle? Why didn't the Spinosaurus return for them? What was he avoiding in the area?

Fourthly, we also notice that the scene later where they had to dig the phone out of Spino-dung. There is something wrong with the dung. It's green in colour and looks poorly digested, even with the human bones virtually intact, almost like herbivore dung. It looked as if the Spinosaurus didn't do too much digesting before he dumped. Why? either he had a bad case of stomache upset or he was dumping so rapidly because he's under stress...in other words, he's stressed...

Lastly, notice how the Spinosaurus goes after the humans? It's like he has something personal against them. Why is this so? What did the humans do that ticked him off so much he had to lash out at them and chase them all over the island.

This is how all the evidence comes together.

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED OFF THE CAMERAS!

Now, the moment Spinosaurus did not die after T.rex bit him in the neck, we know something's up. And the fact that Spinosaurus "broke" T.rex's neck so easily without effort makes it more suspect. Actually, T.rex was happily feasting on a carcass when the humans disturbed him. Annoyed at all the noise and such caused by the humans screaming, he decides to chase them away and have some peaceful dining. Now, the moment he sees the Spinosaurus, he realizes it's the cause of all the racket, trashing the plane and such. T.rex then hatches a plan the scare the living daylights out of the Spinosaurus and drive all these noisy animals out of his turf.

So T.rex gives Spinosaurus a light bite on the throat and lets Spino gets a fix on his. He pretends to die after and does a rather dramatic flip onto his side after Spino has "broken" his neck (or so Spino though). After the pesky humans have evacuated and away from the cameras, Spino prepares to tuck into his meal of T.rex when the Tyrannosaurus suddenly gets up amazingly fast and lunges at him, snapping at his neck with a full-fledged, attack bite of his amazing 20,000 newtons. Spino manages to draw away just in time to avoid a nasty snap that would have sent his severed head flying into the tree tops and realizes T.rex is a far meaner customer than he had imagined. The Spinosaurus rapidly and wisely makes like a tree and got the hell out of the clearing while T.rex decides it's too much trouble to kill the now-oversized Spineless-saurus happily gets back on his feet and resumes tucking into the carcass he was so rudely interrupted from a few minutes ago.

Meanwhile, our characters stupidly decide to return to the plane wreck to salvage stuff. That would have been a bad thing, given the fact that it was the place where the Spino attacked them, and it could return. But the good news is, Spinosaurus has retreated one-quarter of the way across Isla Sona to get away from the T.rex, its nerves still frayed from the close call. T.rex is still too busy tucking into his meal of dead dino to bother them, and our heros survive yet another Stupid Mistake(tm.).

Meanwhile, the Spinosaurus, now quite far away from the scene of the battle, is extremely humiliated and embarrased by his defeat. He gets all worked up and consumed by his loss, running the whole situation over and over again in his head, completely caught up in his quest to find out what went wrong. He finally blames the humans for leading the Tyranno-death-lizard to him and decides to make them pay for it...

So in the Eric meets his parents and the annoying cell-phone ringtone coming from Spino's stomache scene, notice how the Spinosaurus chooses to ambush the humans in the open? Notice how he pauses for a long time, as if checking something before he chases them? Well, Spinosaurus has decided that a clearing makes it harder for a Tyrannosaur to surprise him (and gives him more space to run too). Also, in the confusing pause where he just stands there before he chases Grant and Eric, the Spino is actually checking for T.rex, making sure the area is clear of the true Tyrant-lizard king before he decides to vent his fustration on the humans for his humilliating defeat. After making sure T.rex is not around, the chase starts...

Now, notice how Spino busts a heavy metal paddock fence just to get to the other side to chase the humans? Why would he do that? Why risk life and limb to bash through a bunch of metal poles just to get to some humans? Well, it's because he is really taking it personally against the humans for leading T.rex up to him, thus leading to his defeat. And thus he smashes through the fence...sadly with no injuries to him...

Much later when our heros have escaped and hear the phone from the Spino dung, everybody is into finding the phone and all that that they fail to notice why the dung looks more like its coming from a herbivore and the remains inside are so poorly digested. Well, actually the Spinosaurus is still extremely scared from his clase encounter with T.rex, and being under post-tramatic stress syndrom, he's suffers a bout of indigestion thus dumps such illy-digested, weakly processed dung, allowing the phone to survive the digestive process. He's scared and stressed folks...

And finally in the boat-attack scene, Spinosaurus sees that the humans are escaping and that it may be the last chance to make them pay for causing his defeat, he attacks with a rage caused by all his self-condemmation, humilliation and stress.(notice how mad he seems in that scene? I mean the T.rexes in the other two movies in their attack scenes make it clear they are out for food, but the Spino attacks as if he's totally maddened and has something personal against his potential food items!) But after wrecking so much destruction but being unable to kill a single human after so long in that scene, he's starting to doubt himself when Grant finally sets fire to his patch of water and he realizes that the humans are tougher than he expected. He stomps off and is never seen in the movie again.

Now you have it, now you know that in JP3, the Spinosaurus actually LOST the fight, but annoying cuts in footage prevented us from seeing what really happened. I've got a pretty convincing case eh? :)

Grant, this isn't the first time T.rex saved your sorry butt.

The Ceratosaurus is almost irreconizable as an accurate dinosaur, much like the Spinosaurus.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; July 22, 2001


To Honkie Tong:FOR GODSAKE, STOP TRYING TO DEBUNK PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!
from Sean.S, age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 22, 2001


I would like to note an article that read in the newspaper, stating that JP movies are accurate in the way dinosaurs looked, not acted. Has anyone noticed the "lead" raptor in JP3 didn't have feathers?
from Jason, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, USA; July 22, 2001


How Come You Think Spinosaurus Is Going To Be More Popular Than T.Rex When Spinosaurus Has 34 Votes And T.Rex Has 4,000?
from euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; July 21, 2001


Hi Brad! Is there,any new giant meat-eaters?
from Sean.S, age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 21, 2001


how tall is a spinosaurus? how long is a spinosaurus? how fast could a spinosaurus run? how tall is a dilophosaurus? how long is a dilophosaurus? how fast is a dilophosaurus?
from banana, age 10, so, stu, pid; July 21, 2001


What a great site for children & adults learn together.

Hours of fun.

WELL DONE
from Rick S, age 43, Tas, ?, Australia; July 21, 2001


"hey Brad how fast can a dilophosaurus run"

Considering that it's extinct, I'd say not terribly fast. :) I have no idea how fast a live Dilophosaurus could run, but someone could probably tell you because footprints refferable to Dilophpsaurus are known.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 21, 2001


"Brad,Carnatours(however you spell it)had ther horns over the eyes.Ever see the disney movie Dinosaur?"

I never said that it didn't. I've seen the movie- what about it?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 21, 2001


"Brad, for your list of JP stuff don't forget the cute little chickadee in J.P./// !"

I don't think InGEN cloned that chickadee. :)

"Oh and there is a (japaneese) commercial with goijirasaurus in it (the japaneese verion of the JP3 replacxes raptors with goijirasaurus. (not footage but names) ..."

Isn't Gorjirasaurus a dilophosaur-like (coelophysid) dinosaur? That doesn't really make sense, but some of the JP1 merchandise had Parasaurolophus labeled as Hadrosaurus. :(
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; July 21, 2001


thats it! keep on voting for the dilophosaurus
if you dont know what it is look it up in the dino dictionary

from andrew d, age 10, sad, sam, ate a banana; July 21, 2001


Hey! HONCKY TONG

draw a picture of a dilophosaurus

hey Brad how fast can a dilophosaurus run
from andrew d, age 10, werty, the merty, usa; July 21, 2001


Brad,Carnatours(however you spell it)had ther horns over the eyes.Ever see the disney movie Dinosaur?
from J, age 16, Atlanta, Georgia, America; July 21, 2001


I was only proposing the eight foot skull.I got the 60ft. tall thing from a jp3 website.It was probably misinformation.By the way,i'm not a Spinosaurus fan,I'm a Velociraptor fan.
from J, age 16, Atlanta, Georgia, America; July 21, 2001


I'm starting to lean towards the T-Rex now,but spinosaurus also won because he's the supervillian of the movie.when T-rex became the big star of the first two movies,he's done what he's been threatening to do since the beginning,meet his match.
from J, age 16, Atlanta, Georgia, America; July 21, 2001


I disagree with the Rex fans.It's quite possible that you don't want to face the fact that Tyranosaurus has finally met his match.He got his a** kicked and you can't take it.
from J, age 16, Atlanta, Georgia, America; July 21, 2001


I'm going to draw the same verdict Monstaar drew.(you remember what he said!) I have better things, to do than to argue with a bunch of rotten t.rex fans!
from Sean.S, age 13, "t.wreck", ?, yak,yak,yak,yak!; July 21, 2001


Yeah,whatever Lillian.
from Sean.S, age 13, ?, ?, U.S.A; July 21, 2001


"After the crew of JP3 finished fliming and left the set, the Spinosaurus somehow figured out if he used the moves in the movie, he might actually be able to beat a T.rex. Thus he decided to meet T.rex for a REAL battle to finally prove who is king.

But Spinosaurus must be out of his mind to attack T.rex. Dosen't he know that T.rex eats critters like him for breakfast in the jungles? The moment T.rex rushes out and bites down in with incredible force on Spinosaurus' leg, Spinosaurus realizes that the teeth, unlike in the movie, do penetrate and do alot of damage. But with a horribly mangled leg, he's going down. Spinosaurus has lost all control of his bladder and also lost count of the many chestnuts he has just gathered. The match ends quickly...

Moral of the story: Don't put too much stock in JP3 as a source for accurate dino-info."

Ha ha ha! Good one Honkie!
from Insaniac, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 21, 2001


T.Rex didn't have stumpy legs you dumbo, he had long legs. Spinosaurus fans just don't know their dinosaurs...that's why they pick Spinosaurus as their favourite dinosaur for all the wrong reasons!
from Insaniac, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 21, 2001


No, no, no DW, you must remember they are JP3 Spinosaurus fans, not the fans of the true Spinosaurus. If they really knew the true Spinosaurus, they'll drop it faster than you can say "now, didn't know your dino was like that?"
from Insaniac, age ?, ?, ?, ?; July 21, 2001


Tyrannosaurus rex certainly is the champion of bites. No land animal that ever lived even comes anywhere close to how hard it bit. To get an idea, a normal, feeding bite from Tyrannosaurus reaches 14,000 newtons! Slightly more than the full-fledged attack bite of an American alligator! (13,000 newtons!) A full Alligator bite is 13 times harder than a lion's, 15 times harder than a grizzly bear, and 130 times harder than a human. And Tyrannosaurus easily reaches that force while feeding normally, and he's not even trying.

When he's attacking, Tyrannosaurus is expected to bite up to a force of 28,000 newtons or even 30,000 newtons of force! And these are just conservative estimates. In fact, Tyrannosaurus rex could bite hard enough to actually penetrate the armour of a World War 1 tank. At that kind of force, virtually nothing could stop it short of the bony armour of Ankylosaurus. For goodness sake, Tyrannosaurus could easily bite through the frill for Triceratops, so much for the frill-as-shield theory.

To really get a prespective on all this. You should know that Tyrannosaurus bites SEVEN to EIGHT times harder than carnivores of compairable size like Giganotosaurus. That's an awful lot of difference we're talking about here. One bite from a Tyrannosaurus will have severe effect on any animal its biting. Just imagine, if Giganotosaurus bit Tyrannosaurus anywhere on its body, it will just suffer a bad flesh wound. But if Tyrannosaurus rex bit Giganotosaurus solidly anywhere on the body, not only will the Giganotosaurus be missing 70 kilos of flesh, the bite will clean out and damage anything in its path. If it's a chest bite, the Giganotosaurus will have sustained mutiple compound rib fractures and quite possibly a puntured lung. If it's a leg bite, the bite would most likely have driven right down to the bone, shreading and rending muscles and tendons in the way. If it's a neck bite, Tyrannosaurus rex will easily crush the neck veterbre of Giganotosaurus to chalk. If it's a head bite, the Tyrannosaurus bite would have driven all the way through Giganotosaurus' skull and take a very large chunk out of it. In all the cases, one solid bite from Tyrannosaurus is extremely deadly and no animal will be in any condition to fight after that kind of damage anyway. No other proposed new King of Dinosaurus even comes close to mustering up enough firepower Tyrannosaurus can summon at the flick of a jaw. This really makes all those "longer snout is better" arguments look lame.

Ps: A real organic T.rex could easily kick the butt out of the 12-ton, 1,000 horsepower, 54 foot JP3 anatromic Spinosaurus.
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; July 21, 2001


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