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(Already a member? Click here.) Dinosaur Forums
A Dinosaur Forum
Post Your Dinosaur Pictures or Stories
The Test of Time
A Novel by I. MacPenn
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Dino Talk: A Dinosaur Forum

Dec. 6-11, 2000

I really liked So Young! It's a celebration of our youth! Do you know I can play the Sharon instrumental at the time where there is a pause. Toss the feathers is real cool too. But that track is beyond my ability. It must have taken them real long to play their instruments like this!
from Lilian Tay, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

Why are you all in a rush? Have you all forgotten we all all......

So Young?

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah
Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah
We are taking it easy
Bright and breezy, yeah
We are living it up
Just fine and dandy, yeah

We are caught in a haze
On these lazy summer days
We're spending all of our nights just
Ah - laughing and kissing, yeah

And it really doesn't matter that we don't eat
And it really doesn't matter if we never sleep
No it really doesn't matter, really doesn't matter at all

Coz we are so young now, we are so young, so young now
And when tommorow comes, we can do it all again

We are chasin' the moon
Just running wild and free
We are following through
Every dream and every need

And it really doesn't matter if we don't eat
And it really doesn't matter if we never sleep
No it really doesn't matter, really doesn't matter at all

Coz we are so young now, we are so young, so young now
And when tommorow comes, we can do it all again
Yeah, we are so young now, we are so young, so young now
And when tommorow comes, we'll just do it all again
All again, all again, yeah, all again, all again..., Yeah, Yeah, Yeah
So young now, we are so young, so young now
And when tommorow comes, we'll just do it all again
Yeah, we are so young now, we are so young, so young now
And when tommorow comes, we'll just do it all again
We are so young... (Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah-ie Yeah)
We are so young... (Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah-ie Yeah)
We are so young... (Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah-ie Yeah)
Lets do it all again... (Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah-ie Yeah)

Alright, I think I overreacted, but I'll betcha some of ya here has heard this song, what do you of it?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

I finally posted the Prologue to my story after sitting on it for a while. I'll write weekly so please do check on it. Thank You!
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

Quick, Charcaradontosaurus! We gotta head on to the science forum before we start talking music too! Oh, would you mind letting me animate your drawings on movement? I think I can using Flash 4 but I'll have to see. Please get back to me.
from DW, age 14, Sngapore, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

Honkie, you are right! I just bought The Corrs Unplugged and I have to admit its really nice. They sound so much better in the unplugged playing live. The more traditional sounds also appealed to me. Thanks Honkie!
from Lilian T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

I really think the discussion going on here is pointless. We went from dissing dinosaurs to dissing a rock band!
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

You play the Violin? I never figured you were that sort. I find it kinda hard to associate violin players with hokkien vulgarities.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

Did you know that I bet a dino was smarter then you!!!???
from justinj Axel D., age 8 8, lily, wisconsin, north america; December 11, 2000

See, that's the problem with you Americans, you're a closed-door country. Mabye if you don't know the Corrs, it sad, cos jsut about the rest of the world knows them. Prehaps we can explain ...'s behaviour due to listening too much of Limp Bizkit or Rage against the machine. I'm not saying which band is better, but seriously, the Corrs are better for your mental health. I'd bet monkeyboy listens to these kinds of bands too. I'm not a Corr fan, so before you do anything...I KNOW WHY YOU WANT TO HATE ME! HOW I WISH WE COULD FLY!
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

I donno, I found In Blue the least likeable (though I liked it) of all their major releases. This time round, they have mixed in more R&B and rock into their special Irish traditional-pop mix. This is obviously an attempt to win more fans from America (though they are really popular over there) at the cost of their old fans. Disagree with me? Well, if you have only In Blue, and liked "Rebel Heart", try buying The Corrs Unplugged or Talk on Corners or Forgiven not Forgotten and you'll see my point. But all in all, In Blue was still a good album, despite the american sounds threatening to drown out the Irish sounds we're looking for. But it's a good thing they are open to feedback, and I guess the siblings will give us another special treat at their next outing.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

Watch it! Don't insult my favourite band ar, I say if you listen to them instead of those acid rock and odd rappers, the crime rate in america will be drastically reduced.

Anyway, I took heed from Caroline and also used gloves when I play my jazzset. I used to suffer from sore and blistered palms from excessive playing until I saw decided to do the same. Anyway, I hope I can play the jazzset as well as Caroline, she's darn good at it.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

Seesh, that's what's I have been trying to tell you all along from the start. It's hardly valid to compair the raptors to T.rex. But since you insist on doing so, we all had to attack you. T.rex would probally flunk at doing the raptor's job as would the raptors at doing T.rexes job.

Anyway, I kinda also admire Sharon Corr. I wish I can oneday play the violin as well as her. Do any of you play any instruments?
from Lilian T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

Who are the Corrs??? In case your still carrying this thing, scientific research proves raptors had just as much firepower as tyrannosaurs, only in their feet and hands. COmparing them to T.rexes is like(ummm, a public known band)Limp Bizkit to Rage against the machine. Both pretty much same amount of power, different styles.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

The Corrs!!!! Yeeeewwwww
from monkeyman, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 11, 2000

Well, this is a nice little song for .... He thinks he will win, well, in his...


Now here you go again, you say you want your freedom
Well who am I to keep you down
It's only right that you should talk the way you feel it
But listen carefully to the sound
Of your loneliness

Like a heartbeat drives you mad
In the stillness of remembering what you had
And what you lost

Yeah, thunder only happens when it's raining
Players only love you when they're playing
Yeah, morons they will come and they will go
And ...'s one of them you'll know, you'll know...

Now here I go again, I see the crystal visions
I keep my visions to myself
Well It's nobody that wants to wrap around your dreams and
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell
Dreams of loneliness

Like a heartbeat drives you mad
In the stillness of remembering what you had
(Drives you mad,) and what you lost, (remember what you had)

Thunder only happens when it's raining
(Thunder only happens when it's...)
Players only love you when they're playing
(Players only love you when they're...)
Yeah, morons they will come and they will go, (they will go...)
And ...'s one of them you'll know...

Yeah, thunder only happens when it's raining
(Thunder only happens when it's...)
Players only love you when they're playing
(Players only love you when they're...)
Yeah, morons they will come and they will go, (they will go...)
When the rain washes you clean you'll know...

You'll know, (the heartbeat drives you mad,) you'll know, (remember what you had)
You'll know...

Fade out

Not bad eh? how about another song? ... thinks we're all weak-minded and ignorant to the truth. Well about the truth he could not be more...


Cynical, just your way
You play the doubting Thomas
Feel the scars and wipe the stains

So you fight, and retreat
And talk yourself out of believing
in any peace that you can't agree

Blind words you call
Blind words will fall

You're logical, you can't find
any reason to believe in love
you are blind

Crucify, and deny, pass the blame and burn the mission
Till dust remains and wash your hands

Blind words you call
Blind words will fall

Cool eh? Well, no harm intended as always, just having fun.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

Why only appreciate only one good thing when there's so much more to life?

Anyway, anyone need a programmer?
from DW, age 14, Singapore!, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

The Corrs? Well, I got their In Blue and I thought it was pretty good. I liked the way you compaired T.rex to the Corrs. I wasn't a Corrs fan until recently. I kinda think Jim is my favourite Corr, he's a real ladies man.
from Lilian T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

I agree, none of the Corrs are dispensable. But since you told me, so now I'll tell you. Caroline is my favourite Corr. Well Andrea is also very popular with me, and as you said, no Corr is dispensable. Since you gave me a bio, so I'll give you my bio of my favourite Corr:

Blue eyed Caroline is the second youngest and the second shortest of the Corrs. Her main instrument in the band is the drum kit and the bodhran but she also occasionally plays the piano and sings backing vocals.

Like her brother and sisters Caroline was taught the piano by her father Gerry from a very early age. She turned out to be a natural and mastered the instrument very fast and eventually became good enough to gain qualifications. The bodhran was another instrument that Caroline mastered from an early age and incredibly learnt this instrument solely from watching videos of traditional Irish musicians playing it. It wasn't until Caroline was 18, and at that time the Corrs were without a drummer, that she started to learn the drums. An old boyfriend had a drum kit and he showed her some basic beats and with the help of "teach yourself CD's" Caroline was able to learn simple drum loops and rolls. Armed with this small amount of knowledge she then proceeded to become the drummer in the band and had all her training playing live. Caroline laughs "It was a nightmare, I had only been playing for a short time and there I was being chucked in at the deep end, luckily people never noticed! all the mistakes I used to make or if they did they were too polite to tell me". While learning the drums Caroline had the continuous problem of sore and blistered hands but she overcome this by using a special brand of Equestrian glove. Nowadays Caroline has decided that golfing gloves offer her even more control and this type of glove are now her number one choice. This glove enables Caroline to get the grip and comfort required to play the drums continuously for over 90 minutes at a time in concert.

Caroline was maybe the shyest of the siblings' which is surprising because as a youngster she was considered a bit of a tomboy and befriended many boys. She has become a lot more outgoing since the band turned professional and in interviews she always looks relaxed and friendly while flashing her wonderful smile at the camera. But don't be fooled, as beneath that fun exterior lurks a serious side to her nature and a seriousness towards her instruments and music career that should never be underestimated. Caroline believes that if you want something bad enough then the best thing to do is to just "go out there and get it" and it's a philosophy she believes in strongly.

Caroline has many habits, the worst maybe sniffing her jumper, which she has stated she does for comfort and using her mobile phone. Along with Sharon, she is known to run up very high mobile phone bills and has stated that she could never cope without the phone. She also confesses that she hates cleaning mirrors and loathes bathrooms where someone has made a mess with the toothpaste. She doesn't rate photo shots either as she has said "they suck" on many an occasion.

Caroline has a broad taste in music and likes current bands like Garbage, Radiohead and Oasis as well as some of the older rock bands. She rates standing alongside Pavarotti and hearing him sing as one of the most incredible musical experiences she has ever witnessed.

Onstage, Caroline is a force to be reckoned with. From the minute she sits behind her kit at the start of a concert to the final minutes when she is reaping the crowd's applause she is pure energy. Dressed normally in short tops to keep her cool, trousers, her customary sneakers and with headphones perched on her head, Caroline looks the typical rock drummer, ready for anything. Although out of sight most of the time it is still easy to spot her throughout a concert when she claps along with the crowd or waves her drum sticks backwards and forwards above her head in time with the music.
One of the greatest parts of a Corrs concert that everyone looks forward to is when she appears from behind her drum kit, sits on a stool at the front of the stage and then proceeds to play her bodhran with her now famous head done in concentration pose. After completing her bodhran solo Caroline gives her fantastic smile, gives the crowd a huge wave, sometimes blows a kiss and trots back up to her drum kit expertly avoiding all the wires on the stage floor. Caroline has been praised by many drummers who have graced the drum world. She is admired not only for her amazing power and strength, that has seen her crack cymbals on numerous occasions, but also for her confidence, determination and the sheer love she shows when playing her kit. From the little glances and cheeky smiles she throws at bassist Keith Duffy to her interaction with the other members of the band in the final beats of a song, Caroline is a professional through and through.

Today Caroline is dating a property developer named Frank' whom she has been with for well over two years, a man who thinks a lot of Caroline as he is willing to jump on a plane and go visit her anywhere in the world. Caroline still hopes to be in the music industry in ten years' time although she has confessed that once the time is right, getting married, having babies and doing all the other normal things a man and woman do together will have to take priority.

Caroline is not just a faceless person who sits behind her drum kit out of sight, she is a beautiful, talented woman, whom the band just could not do without. Those of us who have been lucky enough to speak to Caroline for any length of time would more than likely agree on one thing: it's not just her beauty or her fantastic smile or even the way she seems to be able to laugh and talk at the same time, but it's something unexplainable that makes you realise you have spoken to a special person who oozes class, kindness and is dedicated to her profession. Caroline is the ultimate example of what can be achieved through hard work and dedication.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

I used to support BBD, but hear my testomony, I think he is: W.R.O.N.G!
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

Nice picture, but I'm not posting some pictures for a while as I would like to give others a chance. If I keep posting my stuff, I'll only drown out other people's works before they can be viewed. Anyway, I agree with you. Actually, the makers of Walking with Dinosaurs orginally wanted to have the Utahraptors chase and outrun the Iguanadon, but after the modeler informed them that that would be impossible without making the Utaraptor looked fast-forwarded like in flim, they changed the script. Notice they said "THe Iguanadon can outdistance the Utahraptor."

I really have no clue where BBD got his idea that the raptors can run so fast, qouting (the unreliable) Bakker again?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

The reason people believe that T.rex could not run fast was due mainly to its bulk. Many have put it at elephant speed, despite the fact it cruises at 11-15kph, which is faster than the elephant's 8kph stroll. Another factor that would have limited T.rexes speed would be the stress from running would have snapped its leg. T.rex apparently avoids this by having shock absorbing equipment in its leg and running in short bursts. So I would say that T.rex was marginally faster than a rhino at 50kph, not 70 as described by Bakker. Which if you notice, is extremely fast for an animal its size. If we do a little lateral thinking, the maximum speed of T.rex is likely to be marginally faster than that of its main prey animals, so I'd put the hardosaurs at 40-50koh and Triceratops at 30-40kph. I still find theories that a Triceratops, tipping the scales at a full 3 tons heavier than T.rex, would have run faster. That's not possible.

Well, Bill, if you ask me, I don't think there is a best Corr for a good reason. Jim is certainly the most talented, and the Corrs would not exist without him, but you certainly can't do without Andrea or Caroline or Sharon. Whitout a member, the Corrs special sound simply would not work. Unlike the Spice Girls, where losing one member mearly increases the adverage intelligence of the entire band.

But if you ask me, my personal favourite will be Andrea Corr. No, she is not the best Corr. Well, you want an entire bio?

She is the lead singer of the group, plays the tin whistle and is the main lyricist of the band. Like the rest or the Corr siblings, Andrea was taught the piano by her father Gerry, but it's her voice that is the main asset to the band, it is a voice that has a complete uniqueness all of its own and is filled with passion and strength.

Andrea went to the same school as her sisters the "Dun Lughaidh Convent" and was classed as the brainiest of all the siblings. But being the youngest has a down side because as she joined the band straight from leaving school, she is often looked upon as missing out on her youth and a somewhat normal life. This maybe explains why Andrea is often shy at interviews, sometimes sits there silently while her siblings take the questions and then sheepishly looking lost for words if suddenly the conversation turns to her. But all is forgiven when she either bursts out laughing or flashes her fantastic smile as she realises she hasn't been paying full attention.

Andrea, who was voted sexiest woman in Ireland, admits to sometimes making a lot out of a simple situation, being an eternal optimist and sheepishly admits to being the messy one of the family. She is also known to have an overactive imagination which along with her romantic side forms the foundation for her lyric writing and it is these factors that gives the feeling to a lot of the band's songs. Andrea also loves to read and watch movies with the latter often making her emotional which she views as the perfect platform for her proven emotional lyric writing.

Andrea is very self-critical and very rarely likes her own work and has been known to come off stage and publicly denounce her performance. But despite all her self criticism she is known as the humours member of the family, making people crack up with laughter as she drops a quick sharp comment or pulls a funny face. All this is understandable considering she is attracted to people who are down to earth and live life to the full. Andrea, who is not public transport's biggest fan loves visiting the world and sees it as a huge bonus that the band not only do something they enjoy for a living but have the luxury of seeing the world and meeting people of many cultures, as well as obviously sampling the different styles of party life in all corners of the globe.

Andrea's worse and most noticeable habit is sucking her thumb, a habit she has always had since being young. When the Corrs were in the states towards the end of 1998 someone pulled John Hughes aside and suggested that Andrea should get some therapy to try to get her out of the habit, but Andrea has often been quoted as saying that she doesn't see it as a problem whatsoever. She also has the habit of losing things which is why she sees the tin whistle as the perfect instrument as they are cheap to replace.

Andrea is also an aspiring actress in her spare time and has now appeared in two films directed by Alan Parker, the Commitments and the cinematic version of Evita. While Caroline, Jim and Sharon got to receive a well-deserved vacation, Andrea flew to Budapest to portray Juan Peron's mistress in Evita. Andrea's was also the singing voice for Kayley, one of the main characters in the animated movie "Quest For Camelot" and together with the rest of the group she performs two songs on the soundtrack. It's her acting roles that have caused the other members of the band to give Andrea the title 'family drama queen'.

Onstage is where Andrea portrays her true love for the bands music, anyone watching Andrea perform live is mesmerised by being in her presence. Dressed in either colourful baggy dresses or tops or in complete black Andrea is a giant on the concert stage. She can hold an audience spellbound with the variety of facial expressions she has, that range from pure sad to pure sexy. The emotion she portrays in her powerful and strong, yet charming voice, the way she loses herself in the music and lyrics and the way she acts the songs out like a story is what makes this woman so unique. One minute she is dancing around the stage while the next standing sultry by her microphone while running her fingers through her hair or holding her face almost in anguish. Not a single performance goes by without Andrea making some mistake, be it accidentally dropping her tin whistle or her microphone, playing when not supposed to, nearly tripping over or introducing the wrong song or part of the show! , she is a lady who makes mistakes and enjoys making them. Jim has been quoted as saying "I sometimes look at Andrea in our concerts and wonder what next unplanned thing we are all about to witness". But her mistakes we just could not do without and it's a part of the concert that we as fans all look forward to witnessing.

Andrea is currently single but is often linked with any person who will "stick" especially by the tabloid press. Because the band are a family and combined with the fact that anytime Andrea manages to get off from her busy schedule is spent with friends and family this has lead to less relationships than she would have liked and Andrea has sadly admitted to not having a relationship for many years.

Andrea is something special, no one could disagree with that statement. It is a special thing that could be seen in Andrea many years ago when the band were trying so hard to get a record deal. Her irresistible little smiles and cheeky grins, the presence she portrays on stage for one so small, her songwriting and especially her lyric writing talents hold no boundaries. These are just a few examples of what makes this lady an amazing woman who will go down in history as one of the greatest females that has ever graced popular music.

Andrea is a giant amongst giants...
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

Actually, ... So, Honkie, who is your favourite Corr?
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

Has anyone read my new novel?
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

What's happened to Brad and Honkie Tong? I would think Brad would be posting at the dino science board like crazy by now...
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

The novel Bryan and the Mezazoic Planet (renamed Welcome to my Planet and with David and Jordan instead of Bryan) Debisaur alredy put as a word document on another computer so it looks like it won't be at zoomdinosaurs. I need ideas for another dinosaur novel.
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 10, 2000

No problem DW. It isn't perfectly accurate,but it is showing lots. The first I did was tyrannosaurus rex. I can post that one soon. I also did a velociraptor soon after, and surprisingly (NOT) it takes them nearly twice the time to run a mile according to their stride and lg bone orientation. I am now working on triceratops, parasaurolophus, ankylosaurus, and pachycephalasaurus.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

I agree with you totally leonard. That is so true! Just as my friend (By the way his name is firebyrd) said if he doen't get his way he curses everyone. He even said all of the people here are so called "nerds". Then he has the nerve to say I'm immature. Like saying I'm a "nerd wasn't immature. So who is really immature?

BBD made me question something. Could a T.Rex really beat a Giagantosaurus? To me the answer is yes. This may not be correct, but I'm pretty sure it is correct. T.Rex was smarter because his brain was larger and wider. His arms were longer. Giagantosaurus's teeth were used for slicing, while T.Rex's teeth were used for crushing. I think the crushing action worked in T.Rex's favor. But most imported we will never now because they were devided by a sea. Could T.Rex really beat a Giagantosaurus? We may never know.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

Me and Debisaur are going to start a new novel called Bryan and the Mezazoic Planet. It will be about a kid named Bryan who discovers a planet that is still in the age of dinosaurs. I want it to be on this website's fanfic page. Debisaur wants to publish it and sell it in bookstores. What do all you people think? Any suggestions?
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 10, 2000

Hey! What's all this talk about height. I may be quite small, only five feet plus, but it dosen't mean I am lacking in any way or what. Monkeyboy, you're in big trouble!
from Tania D., age ?, ?, ?, Australia; December 10, 2000

Brachiosaurus walked on four legs and, like the other Brachiosaurids and unlike most dinosaurs, its front legs were longer than its hind legs. These unusual front legs together with its very long neck gave Brachiosaurus a giraffe-like stance and great height, up to 40-50 feet (12-16 m) tall.

See Monkeyman t.rex isn't the best at everything.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

Size: Giganotosaurus was probably bigger than Tyrannosaurus rex who was about 40-50 feet long, about 5 tons in weight and about 10 feet tall at the hips. Giganotosaurus, however, was more lightly built and had a much smaller brain case.

It's right there BBD. Read the last line. Giganotosaurus, however, was more lightly built and had a much smaller brain case.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

Carcharadontosaurs (did I spell it right?), please post the graph when your're done. I'm very interested in the results.

I don't know about this whole "popularity" thing. Brad has some good points. But here is my opinion onpopularity. It gets in the way of objectivity. Unfortunately, it's human nature to relate with the strongest, the weakest, the best, etc.

You see, favouritism results in blinkeredness. It's true. Even if you can prove that something is better than something else, you overlook the traits of what you do not regard and fail to see something unique and totally fascinating. The only way to prevent blinkeredness is to keep your mind open and maintain curiosity. Otherwise you would never know life.


I get so philosophical at times...

On another note, I just finished a course in C++ and I need to apply my new found programing skills to something. Anyone need a programmer?
Also, I'll start my story sometime soon (I was very busy, you see).
Thanks for putting up with me =).

from DW, age 14, Singapore!, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

We don't need to WANT T.rex to be the best because he is the BEST. Well, I guess this debate is jsut about over. ...'s defeated. His latest posts filled with swear words and curses just about proves he has crashed. He's like a Iraqi infantryman, enraged that he had lost the war, but is helpless to do anything against the combined firepower of the colitation except to curse and swear. He accuses us of being childish, but he himself curses like a spoilt child. He accuses us of being irrational, but himself accuses people of being alter-egos. He accuses us of favouring T.rex, but fails to note that we favour him for a good reasons. He accuses us of using non-logical arguments, but himself uses the most stupid and unthinkable ones. He also accuses us of ganging up on him and attacking him as a part of a plan against him, but fails to question how impossible this is when we have no other means to communicate but through this chatroom. He also calls hims! elf rational and logical, but yet his arguments bother on qouting other proffesionals recklessly. He accuses us of doing the unmost to defend T.rex, but he himself refuses to publiclly admit he is wrong but defends his idea to the last straw.

This is the case now I guess. It's over for .... We don't really have to talk to him or to bother him anymore. Nobody will listen to such a person, even when he talks(no, not even Bakker.). He is effectively dead in the water, which is not our fault, for he had sunk his own boat happily. The Giganotosaurus debate is aready over, with us having the favourable outcome, but yet, now he is stalling for time by bring old, shot down points for us to shoot at. There's really no point in doing this. We have aready won and we can rest assured that we have the victory, NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS. He has aready snapped a long time ago, and as you know, a opponent who has snapped and is beyond reasoning is automatically disquallified from a debate, in the unwritten Dinotalk rules. You knocked yourself out, .... Go on, swear and rive at us all you want, you WILL be IGNORED until you come up with something sensible. Do you other people agree with me?
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

Oh yes, if I remember, Bakker also said that Brachiosaurus could gallop like a horse, do you qoute that too? I'm afraid you are just point selecting Bakker's statements without considering what other statements he made. If you qoute someone, you are buying into his idea, you can't just take a slice out. My advice to you BBD, stop qouting Bakker like the bible and said its that way because Bakker said so. I believe he is as mistaken about the raptors as he is as mistaken for the Brachiosaur.

And what's the stuff about you keep saying "bye". It's obvious to everybody that you have lost your stomache for a debate but don't want to retreat with your tail between your legs. I'm afraid nobody here takes you seriously anymore, seriously.
from Primateboy, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 10, 2000

How many bones are in a stegasaurus?
from katie m, age 7, douglasville, georgia, usa; December 9, 2000

Was it BBD, JC? If not, who was it?
from fiebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 9, 2000
No, it was not BBD - it was someone else (I deleted the nonsense they wrote). JC

Duh, Moneyman. I never said once that T.rex was amoung giants. Where did I say that? Just another try to make me look like I'm stupid. Well I'm not. And I have a right to defend myself.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 9, 2000

You might recginise this.

A Comparison of Giganotosaurus and T. rex

Skull length 6 feet (1.8 m) 5 feet (1.5 m)
Hands 3 fingers larger, with 2 fingers
Height at hips 12 feet (3.7 m) 10 feet (3 m)
Length 45-47 feet (14.5 m) 40 feet (12 m)
Weight about 8 tons about 5 tons
Teeth long, knife-like, serrated - slicing action conical, serrated - crushing action
Brain size, shape small, banana shaped larger and wider
When they lived about 100-95 million years ago about 65 million years ago
Where they lived South America North America

from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 9, 2000

Oh yeah "nerds" is real descriptive. Like that's not immature. Is it BBD? Do you really think that is mature?
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 9, 2000

Note to BBD - I don't have time to edit your posts for curse words and personal insults. If you want the dinosaur part of your post published, edit it yourself and re-submit it in a suitable format. JC

Those are the exact words BBD. Who is immature? Curse on a children's website. How immature. Cursing someone if you don't get your way.
from Firebird's friend who is 6 feet tall., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 9, 2000

Hey you mess with firebird, you mess with me. Tyrannosaurus could beat a Gigantosaurus. Probably 85% of the time T.rex kicked his butt. T.Rex was smater. Giagantosaurus had a very small brain compared to Tyrannosaurus's brain. Oh and by the way I don't even like t.rex.
from Firebird's BIG Friend. (Say 6 foot friend.), age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 9, 2000

Can you respond to the the last thing I posted on dino talk, JC?
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 9, 2000
Reuben, you have great suggestions, but there aren't enough hour in a day to implement all of them. I put up the scientific section you suggested last night. JC

Im not a onesided person monkeyman, in fact Im neutral as well, but Im not going to let a group of bullyish nerds push me around with no nonsense and intrue "facts" cuz they WANT tyrannosaurus to be the best. This place is the worst. My arugement stands, and you know why, cuz its all based on facts and logics with very few theories and Ive even given T.rex the most favorable theories. Brad, monkeyman, Josh, the computer nerds on this arent even worth talking to, all that they are gonna say basically is "T.Rex is the best archosaur, even best vertebrate to walk earth", and even if they say they wont, if you push em, they will say that. Its absolutely disgusting. They arent future paleontologists, theyre the people who will just go visit mueseums and form "fanclubs" that not many even heard of.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 9, 2000

The BBD thing is out of hand cuz of "T.Rex" fans who just know about Tyrannosaurs and no other dinosaur. In fact Giganotosaurus could beat T.rex in a forest like habitat, with those looonngg jaws and teeth that could sever a tendon or arterie in a heartbeat. Than a raptor and a tyrannosaur(and Im not talking about T.rec here) the same height at the hip put together..hahaha. The hand claws are jus as long as the tyrannosaurs hands, not to mention the tyrannosaur is much less agile and bounce, inflexible becuase of being so musuclar and stiff(Bakker's words) and the raptors being able to bounce, jump high, twist in midair, flick the long arms rapidly to cut and the legs to stab and slice the sides while the tyrannosaur is trying to turn around. Its all that simple and nothing else will work against basic facts people. It all works. No raptor was as big as a T.rex, but there were raptors as tall as Daspletosaurus, albertosaurus, nanotyrannus, I dont n! eed to say anymore people. Just cuz the raptors were in Tyrannosaur shadows at the time doesnt mean they were less deadly. THylacoleo was in Megalania's shadow and smilodon was in Arctodus' shadow. Case........closed. Personally Id rather talk about something scientific and have the weak minds to stop trying to carry this argument on and on and insult me. That onlky shows how much immaturity you have. Bye bye now.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 9, 2000

Here is a suggestion for the fanfic page.

comidy (or any other catagory) :

Reuben (or any other author) :
1 making 2 interview 3

Billy Macdraw (or any other author) :
Dino Warz :
1 making 2 3 4 interview 5 6 7 8 9 shortage

from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 9, 2000

This BBD thing is getting out of hand. Tyrannosaurus is the better dinosaur. Ther is no way a seven ton Veleciraptor would work. It is an atracting idea but it is not possible to have a seven ton Velociraptor. If a Giantgantosaurus could not beat a Tyrannosaurus, do you really think a Veleciraptor pack could beat a T.rex? Probably not. I'm not saying that a pack of Raptors never did kill a T.Rex. I'm saying there's a slim to none chance that it happened. I hope this has changed your mind.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

from Jaimie R., age 10, Neworleans, L.A., Americia; December 8, 2000

You are correct Brad, but paleontology, as the (fake) Alex Sophin said, is a dynamic, non linear system. It's constantly changing and never right. You can say we are getting closer but Chaos says we can never be sure we are right.

About the complete T.rex, I must say most of their arguments were one-sided and ignored lateral thinking. Which we now see as essencial when we do paleontology. The scavenger section in that book is all dead now. Even Horner recutantly admits that T.rex was much more a hunter than he thought.

The idea is that paleontology is changing and there is nothing we can do about it. If anything, the deadiliness of Triceratops' horns are now called into question as we discover more. Triceratops actually had a very limited scope of movement in its head, which is bad if you are using it for defence. Modern day buffalos and generally anything with horns as defence have a large range of movement in their neck.

But still I cannot deny that Triceratops had the ability to kill a rex if it was in the right palce in the right time. That's why T.rex was a one-bite one-kill animal. It had to kill its prey before it got killed, which it did well, considering the number of Triceratops remains we found post-moterm of Tyrannosaur actitivy. Still we notice that T.rex would have thought twice before attacking a Triceratops as statically speaking, the number of big Hardosaurs found with bite marks are twice that of the so-called dangerous herbivores like Triceratops(not so often) and Ankylosaurus(none at all).

Just because the dinosaur is popular hardly spoils its image. T.rex has been personnified in most movies until recently as a slow, plodding beast and a dimwitted moron. If anything, the movies and toys of T.rex had caused us to underestimate its natural abilities. From the movies we think of it as a loner, when it was actually a social animal. We thought of it as a scavenger when Horner wanted to challange a commonly accepted idea, and did more damage to the truth than the original idea. As the new picture of T.rex emerges after killing so many myths, like a phenoix, it's back in strenght and stronger than ever.

T.rex is a giant anongst giants.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

Really? That's so cool! But I thought the Corrs are not due in Singapore until Valentine's Day next year? Anyway, I'm a true hard-corr Corr fan too. I might fly down to Singapore to catch the concert, meet you there. I might aslo feature the Corrs in the new season of Dinowarz (If you noticed, Scotty the T.rex is a Corr fan too). I guess the Corrs is what seperates the men and ladies from the boys and girls. If you think a band like The Spice Girls or the Backstreet Boys are better, well, you are a child. The Corrs are truly a talented band, relying more on their natural abilities than their managers to market them.

I guess its the same for Tyrannosaurus. Just like the Corrs, Tyrannosaurus became so popular because of its natural abilities, even though its full potential has sadly been not yet reconized. The raptors on the other hand, are personified by bands like the Spice Girls and the Backstreet Boys- being overhyped by overegar managers to make them seem like they are supercool. Yes, just like the Corrs, the Tyrannosaurus seperates the adults from the children.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

I am working on a simple experiment diagram on dinosaur movement and speed. It's turning up lots of interesting results. Keep in mind it isn't entirely perfect.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

Dino-show-us three is out.
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 8, 2000

Hi! I, for the first time, agree with Brad on a non-scientific thing. I think there should be more than one bord. Here are my ideas.

Dino Talk
You know what this bord will be.

Dinosaur Dibate
This is where kids can say their opinion on things scientists are corently agueing about and corect inacurate info posted on Dino Talk.

Suggestion Center
This is where kids post things they want you to answer.

Dino Fiction Talk
This is where kids post good coments on kids posts and where authors tell their latest work was posted. If it opens a can of worms, add a new policy to stop it.

JC, please respond to this.
from Reuben B., age 7, Needham, MA, USA; December 8, 2000
That sounds pretty good. I'll add whatever pages a majority of you want. I've just added a Dinosuar Science forum - I can change the name if you don't like it, so let me know what you think. (I didn't use Dinosaur Debate because that doesn't eliminate the "My dinosaur is better than yours" debate. JC

The new Dino-Show-Us III is the best yet! Check it out! This kid sure can write a good party scene! Go to Reuben's fiction at Dino Fiction to read it all. I'm not just a big fan, I also hatched him!
from Debisaurus, age 39, Reuben's World, MA, Pangea; December 8, 2000

I must say, BBD, you are DEAD WRONG. Tyrannosaurus is the better preditor. It is unlikely that a 7 ton Velociraptor would work. Honkie Tong made this point very clear.
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

What is linerar emprical thought? Everyone here is smarter than me now.

I didn't know that there was a new T. rex book. I'll try to find it.
I think that Triceratops is the underestimated one. Just look at those horns! There's a bit about its attack behavior in _The Dinosaur Heresies_ (Bakker, 1986), as well as Tyrannosaurus. Also, is _The Complete T. rex_ (Horner and Lessem, 1993) to be ignored? Does anyone even think about the scavenger part of that book anymore? Triceratops was not weak, it's weakness among dinosaur fans must surely lie in this one fact:

It has a smaller role in Jurassic Park.

There. That is why T. rex is said to be superior to Triceratops. Our view of both the velociraptorinae and the tyrannosaurinae have been ruined by action-packed movies, cheap toys, ill-researched kids books, badly written news articles, and the rest of the popular dinosaur world. Triceratops can't keep up because its less famous.

Why are there so many exciting new studies being mentioned here that I can't find any references to? Perhaps some are genuine breaking studies reported by real scientists. Others may be made up to fuel debates. But I feel that paleontology cannot be moving this fast. People jump to conclusions that will make their favourite dinosaur (T. rex or Raptor) more popular. Why is it that everything we knew about dinosaurs a few years ago will be proven false in the next few years? I don't know, but I'm getting the feeling I can't trust you people.

I read my old dinosaur books, accept old simple ideas, and try to keep my dinosaurs down to a reasonable speed. Okay, maybe I'm just jealous because I can't stay as current as you. But I don't think so. Dinosaurs have gotten too popular for their own good. I'm not leaving forever, but I won't be posting as often.


Uh, I guess I'm done here. Bye.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; December 8, 2000

If you are wondering where I have been these few days, I have been away at a retreat with the Corrs. No, I'm not kidding. The Corrs were at the retreat. I'm a big Corrs fan you know. I certainly think they are much better than those what's-their-name? Teen bands.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

Hello everybody, I am Short Fart. Honkie is by brudder you know. Well, actaully we have many more friends to introduce to this webpage, but I don't want them to see what bloodie idiots we have here until we clean it up. Yah, you must understand, some people are more sensitive unlike some other people.
from Short Fart, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

Anyway, I think its highly likely that Tyrannosaurus Rex had a septic bite. This theory was suggested because of a curious fact noted about Tyrannosaurus:

The serrations on the teeth were not saw-toothed, like the teeth of mose other carnivores, but cube-shaped instead. Looking at the recurved teeth and the cube-shaped serrations, one realizes that these cube-shaped serrations were not made to cut meat, but to trap it. And of course, if it was trapped, it would rot. Another thing. I hardly thing chewign on bones would have extracted the meat from his teeth. It's a highly unlikely as when T.rex bit into the bone, he crushed it into smaller pieces, which would have been unsuited for svcrapping out meat. The bone-as-floss theory is a simplistic theory that does not work for obvious reasons. You can't extract meat wedged tightly inbetween teeth by chewing on bones, you use dental floss. If anything, you are more likely to get bone trapped in between your teeth. I love to say this, but I think your theory is incorrect Monkeyboy. Perhaps it frightens us to think of the Tyrannosaurs with a septic bite as that makes him all the more pow! erful. Prehaps it was the reason it beat the raptors out of its ecological place. Alot of the ideas being thrown about here are actually old ideas about T.rex. Latest research reveals the closest picture yet. Of course, all this is hardly dinosaurian fact, despit BBD's reasoning that would have made it so.

Mabye I should sum the new T.rex up with a article written by a paleontologist:

Take Tyrannosaurus rex, "king of the tyrant lizards". Dinosaur detectives who want to get under this monster's skin have meagre evidence to work with. The first specimen was found in 1900, and since then excavations have turned up only three animals that are more than half complete. The same sites in America's Midwest have yielded another 20 or so skeletons that are at least 15 per cent intact. Even so, clever dino-sleuths have turned up plenty of clues upon which to work their magic. Jurassic Park it isn't, but this work paints a pretty good picture of what a day in the life of a T. rex might have been like.

Rise and shine

Were tyrannosaurs and their ilk cold-blooded, relying on outside heat to warm their bodies and get them going? Or could they remain active whatever the temperature of their surroundings, by burning metabolic fuel to generate their own body heat? The long-running controversy over whether dinosaurs were ectothermic, like modern lizards, or endothermic, like birds and mammals, is central to our understanding of their lifestyles.

In one strand of research, John Ruben and his colleagues at Oregon State University in Corvallis have been using CAT scanning to probe the secret recesses of dinosaurs' noses. The team found that an assortment of dinosaurs--including a member of the tyrannosaur family--had relatively narrow nasal passages which would have had little space for special scroll-shaped structures called respiratory turbinates. Existing endotherms use these as air conditioners to moisten and warm incoming air and recover some heat and moisture from outgoing air--essential processes when breathing rates are high, as they are in endotherms. The implication is that the dinosaurs had low breathing rates and so wouldn't have inhaled enough oxygen to fuel the high metabolic rate needed for life as an endotherm.

In another study, the Oregon team focused on the lung structure of the famous Chinese "feathered dinosaur", Sinosauropteryx (This Week, 19 April 1997, p 6). A distant relative of tyrannosaurs and a fellow member of the Theropoda group, this fossil comes from the Yixian formation in northeast China, where a treasure trove of exquisitely preserved prehistoric remains is being unearthed. Astonishingly, signs of soft tissues are visible in the fossil, and these have helped the team to conclude that Sinosaurop-teryx had relatively simple, crocodile-like lungs that would be incapable of achieving the rates of gas exchange most endotherms need.

What does this all mean for dinosaurs? According to Ruben they didn't necessarily have the same rate of oxygen consumption or activity as living lizards. "They could have had something intermediate," he says. "But the evidence from this seems to preclude the possibility that they would have been warm-blooded in the sense that we'd ordinarily think of warm-blooded animals."

Ruben points out that this doesn't necessarily mean that dinosaurs were sluggish and dozy. After all, they lived at a time when the world was warm, and their large bulk would have helped them to keep a steady body temperature. Today's Komodo dragon offers a clue to what they might have been like. "If we were to reconstruct theropod dinosaurs with the same sort of metabolic physiology we see in some of these very active lizards we would come up with a very active, dangerous animal that would have been very mammal-like in its behaviour," says Ruben.

First brush your teeth

One palaeontologist memorably described the huge, curved teeth of T. rex as "lethal bananas". Their serrated edges and the slots between the serrations were extremely good at trapping meat fibres, according to Chicago-based researcher William Abler. As a result, T. rex almost certainly had terrible breath and its mouth would have been a dental hygienist's nightmare. Abler believes its bite may have caused serious infections in any prey that survived an attack.

Even so, until recently some experts believed that this impressive oral weaponry was rather fragile. Then, a few years ago, Gregory Erickson was studying for his master's degree at the Museum of the Rockies in Montana when Ken Olson, a fossil collector, appeared with a Triceratops pelvis. The pelvis bore some extraordinary bite marks that looked like the work of T. rex. "If you took your thumb and pushed it down into clay--that was the depth of the holes," says Erickson.

Erickson and Olson's studies on the pelvis suggested that T. rex fed by "puncture-and-pull" biting. "They'd bite very deeply into flesh and bone and once they stopped they'd pull straight back," says Erickson, "and that would rip out a big chunk of flesh." With a group of colleagues at Stanford University, Erickson staged further tests to try to measure the bite force of a T. rex. The team simulated bites on a cow's pelvis using a life-size replica tooth and a hydraulic press, and measured the force needed to produce holes like the ones on the Triceratops specimen. The results showed that T. rex would have chomped like a champion, producing a force of at least 13⋅4 kilonewtons--outperforming wolves and lions, and biting in the same league as alligators.

Off to work

In Hollywood, T. Rex runs races with Jeeps, but some researchers doubt it was so fleet. McNeill Alexander of Leeds University has looked for clues about the running speeds of various dinosaurs by studying the structure of their leg bones. He calculates a "strength indicator" which represents the strength of the bones in relation to the animal's weight. "If you do that for Tyrannosaurus you find that the leg bones were relatively weak for an animal that was that heavy," he says. Faster animals need stronger leg bones and his approach suggests that T. rex, which could have weighed 6 tonnes or more, moved more like an elephant than a rhino or a gazelle. "We're not talking about the sort of speeds that are good if you're going to chase jeeps," says Alexander. He offers a tentative figure of about 25 kilometres an hour. That's less than half the speed of one modern top predator, the lion.

However, Theagarten Lingham-Soliar of the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow argues that tyrannosaurs might have been faster than their bone structure alone implies, because of other factors such as the presence of large, shock-absorbing chunks of cartilage in their legs and their highly flexed knees.

With a little lateral thinking, James Farlow and his colleagues at Indiana-Purdue University at Fort Wayne have come up with another ingenious way to deduce tyrannosaurs' top speed. They asked themselves: what damage might a fully grown T. rex do to itself if it came a cropper at speed? A fall at 72 kilometres an hour, they calculated, could have been fatal. They came up with a top speed of about 36 kilometres an hour. "For an animal its size, I think it was pretty fast," says Farlow. "I suspect it could have caught any other large dinosaur in its environment."

In theory, fossil footprints could provide decisive evidence, but there are very few known tyrannosaur tracks, says Martin Lockley of the University of Colorado, Denver. The best, in New Mexico, shows just one footprint with about 3 metres of untrampled surface in front of it. It's difficult to draw conclusions from a single footprint, says Lockley, but if this distance is taken as the distance between steps, then the calculations show that the animal was travelling at around 11 or 12 kilometres an hour. Of course, this need not represent its top speed. It may well have put on a spurt when in pursuit of its dinner.

Dinner time

The idea that T. rex was a mighty hunter looks like an open-and-shut case. But is it? According to some researchers, including palaeontologist Jack Horner of Montana's Museum of the Rockies, there is evidence that this terrifying beast lived by scavenging. Horner points out that T. rex's femur was longer than its tibia, whereas bipedal animals that run fast have the opposite arrangement. T. rex appears to be adapted for long-distance walking, he says. Its brain had a huge olfactory lobe--like that of a turkey vulture, which depends on smelling carrion from a long way off. And those extraordinarily small arms look hopeless for grappling with prey. What's more, its physique would have been ideal for scaring hunters away from a fresh carcass.

Most researchers still see T. rex as the most ferocious predator of its day, although it might have scavenged when it got the chance, just as modern hunters do. "I would be astonished if tyrannosaurs had not been hunters as well as scavengers," says Farlow. Hunting was their main method of procuring food, according to Lingham-Soliar. He bases his conclusion on studies of tyrannosaur anatomy and comparisons with modern animals. In particular, he points to the huge skulls of tyrannosaurs, which were immensely strong in critical areas and clearly designed to resist large stresses such as those that might be encountered in hunting and dismembering large prey.

The same imposing anatomy has prompted David Norman of the University of Cambridge to suggest that T. rex might have charged at its victims with mouth agape. Lingham-Soliar, on the other hand, believes that this would have been highly damaging to their teeth: "Like running at a brick wall with one's mouth open." He offers a different rationale for the stoutly built skull, which also explains how tyrannosaurs managed to break up their prey despite their lack of effective grasping forelimbs. He believes they tore their victims apart by seizing them in the mouth and shaking them violently--rather like many of today's marine predators that also feed without the help of limbs, such as sharks and killer whales. Enormous forces would have acted upon the skull and neck, putting a premium on size and strength. Larger prey wouldn't have been shaken, but chunks of flesh would have been gouged out with the teeth, he says.

Family life

Female tyrannosaurs were larger than males. That's the conclusion of Peter Larson from the Black Hills Institute of Geological Research in South Dakota, following his discovery of two distinct body types in T. rex. "The pelvis in the robust form is wider inside, which might be an indication that this form is female," says Larson. Further evidence comes from a living descendent of dinosaurs. Male crocodiles have an extra bone known as a chevron at the base of their tail where the muscle that retracts the penis is attached. The same is true of saurornithoides, a group of dinosaurs from China that are closely related to tyrannosaurs. Larson is looking for a similar pattern. "I haven't got absolute proof on T. rex yet," he admits. The clincher will come later this year when the robust skeleton of Sue, the most complete T. rex ever found, goes on display at Denver Museum of Natural History. "I believe we're going to find that Sue has one less chevron than the males," says Larson.

Finding that female tyrannosaurs were more stoutly built than males is not as surprising as it sounds. Larson points out that, contrary to most people's expectations, throughout the animal kingdom females tend to be larger than males, because of the obvious advantages for laying eggs or carrying young. "The only time you see males larger is where they have a harem and have to compete for females," he says. "T. rex was not a herding animal in that sense." He goes even further, pointing out that in birds of prey--which are probably among dinosaurs' closest living relatives--outsized females and monogamy go hand in hand. "Tyrannosaurs may have pair-bonded," concludes Larson.

Another palaeontologist who wants to dispel the image of T. rex as a loner is Tom Holtz from the University of Maryland, College Park. He points out that Sue was found in what looks like a family group, with a male and two juveniles. And this is not an isolated example. "There are multiple occurrences of multiple rexes," says Holtz. "Whether or not they hunted together or had division of labour within the group is difficult to tell." Pact hunting in T. rex society is Myhrvold's current area of interest, but he is yet to publish his results.

"T. rex probably organised into highly social, protective and cooperative family groups," concludes Larson. Even if this harmonious picture is correct, other clues suggest that there were outbreaks of violence between individuals. For example, tyrannosaur teeth sometimes bear telltale marks made by the teeth of their fellows. These could have been made during feeding, fighting or courtship, according to Abler. Then there are the numerous broken bones found in fossilised specimens. Many of these were healed by the time of the animal's death, suggesting that struggles with prey and competitors were common.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

Yo, good morning people! I think that HT is rite mano. Waht BBD posted eariler is not legal and valid. I think we make different deductions from the bones but we an never declare tham as facts. Example: BBD said that the Tyrannosaurs were not as agile as a raptor of compairable size, while other people think its the other way round. If you ask me, I'd rather believeh the person who explains his point carefully than the person who says its dinosaurian fact that can't be shot down. By doing that, BBD's only hurting his case, making it all the more easier to shoot his non-facts down!
from Primateboy, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

Ouch! You really took out BBD's last post. It must have hurt more than his ego. Honkie, I agree with your opinion of dinosaurian fact. But its unlikely BBD will see it that way. He probally has a "god" complex, thinking every word out of his mind is the law, fact and the natural order of things. Anyway your argument must have broken his middle finger too, for he is waving it franticly.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

i am a dinosdaur
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

Lilian, please, one problem's solved so please don't open old wounds. Listen to Honkie. Please.

Actually, they are not "nit-picks", they are more like points in an argument. A "nit-pick" is when someone finds fault in a petty manner. You know, mimicry is the greatest form of flattery. Last I checked, no one else used the word nit-pick before I did. Hmmmm... (I'm refering to someone specifically)

Sorry about that time I lashed out at everyone... I was really upset at the time so I want to take this opportunity to apologise.

I don't mind two boards but it would require a lot of monitoring to keep them on topic.
from DW, age 14, Singapore!, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

I happen to disagree with you on your counts of dinosaurian "fact". A raptor would hardly bounce around when skewered by the teeth of Tyrannosaurus. If anything, it would be pinned like a bug in a bug collection. And one more thing, I know you won't take correction for Tyrannosaur agility but I must warn you that sometime eariler, even before you came here, we have aready determined that a Tyrannosaur would be actually "lighter" on their feet and more agile than a raptor of similar size due to its ability to shift its center of gravity in its hips. Even if the raptors were more agile, "much" more would not be the word to use.

I'm afraid these are not dinosaurian facts, these are observations and deductions. Rather than make your case look impressive when you call your arguments "facts", you make it look absurd. What you have stated as "facts" have actually turned out to be deductions made from abservations from the bone. In short, you are trying to deduce behaviour, good, but any self-respecting paleontologist would hardly call his arguments unrefutable fact.

What is dinosaurian fact is that the Tyrannosaurs were a group of advanced coelurosaurs, that Tyrannosaurus was up to 40 feet long and had big, sharp teeth and that Triceratops had three horns. These are facts. I wouldn't say Triceratops did charge like a rhino, that Tyrannosaurus was a scavenger and announce tham as dinosaurian facts as they simply was not, period.

I know you other people would rather stay out of this, but do you find my opinion on what's fact accurate?

Enough about that. I have a new friend, and his name is Short Fart. Well, he's actually my smaller (and shorter) brother, and he might post you anytime.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

Hi guys, I'm back. Look, I'm really flattered by how high you people hold me up and thanks for the support, but really, I am not the leader of whatever group there is, we the Tyrannosaur camp decide everything together.

Also about Joseph. It might be a nasty trick but I figure we should take our allies where we can find them, so lets get off him and welcome him in. Lilian, are you listening?

The end of ... is nigh, its time for action!
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; December 8, 2000

How come people are using my characters for this dino talk? But anyway I felt what that Alez said was very right.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Anyway, theories and arguments are for the likes of BBD. People like him stay around the computer and type out what they think should happen, simple and idle speculation by a theoristist. If we look closely, we would notice that Honkie's approach is far superior. He runs thought experiments and computer models to test as he knows we are working with dynamic, nonlinear systems, not liner systems that are as predictible as a Saturday night special. I do not know if he know this but he is actually working with Chaos. We do this all the time. This is what seperates the real talented people from the contenders like BBD, they test their arguments. BBD's probally threatened by Honkie's excellence. I am afraid that you too Brad, are starting to be tainted by linear, empircal thought. It will not work for the simple reason that you cannot expect a living system not to act like a simple reason. Honkie's argument against the fall down go boom theory was hardly! a nitpick, it was an excellent deduction made from taking Chaos into account.
from Alex S., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Actually, the nitpicks are what that brings your entire argument crashing down BBD. That's because we are describing dynamic, nonlinear systems, and because of chaos, their tiny nitpicks will have a drastic effect on your argument BBD. I have reviewed the so called nitpicks done by Honkie Tong and gang and discovered they can actually bring your entire argument down. Chaos is now changing the face of paleontology.

We now know having the fundimentals to your theory or argument is not enough. It's simply impossible because of the butterfuly effect. The short form is, a tiny good nitpick by Levine or Lilian and your entire argument is neutralized. I am not a Tyrannosaur fan, but I think you shouldn't dismiss their "nitpicks" as being nothing. They will bring you down. You cannot escape the mathematics.

Anyway, I hardly think Honkie Tong is incompetent in the field of paleontology. In fact, he's quite respected here for being a very good debater, a knowledgeable person, a good artist, computer modeler, a chaos theorist, and not to mention a writer. He actually wrote two Old Bloods. I hardly think you can denounce such a person with a sweep of your hand BBD, he is probally just biding his time. I am calculating you are going to be badly injured if he decides to go all out to get you. But I guess he is too much of a gentleman to do that. Look at Joseph. He knows the value of chaos, he knows what you see as nitpicks are actually great flaws in his argument.

And one more thing, yes, Tyrannosaurus is a advanced coelurosaur, not a carnosaur. In fact, Tyrannosaurus was closer to the raptors and probally more deadily than previously thought.
from Alex S., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Actually, in retrospect I thought I looked ridiculous shouting and screaming during the time I was in BBD's camp. If you ask me, I now think its BBD who looks the most ridiculous here.
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Quit the act Joseph, we're not buying it. What make you think we need your help anyway? BBD's aready beaten.
from Lilian T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Brad, I think you are underestimating T.rex. He is probally much deadiler than you have mentioned, and you'll be wasting money if you bet on a Triceratops. In fact, I think the T.rex is actually more involved in hunting than the raptors, and they would certainly win if pitted against one of similar size.
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Actually, I dont't trust Joseph as much as I trust BBD. But it's getting late now, I am turnign in. See you all tommorow!
from Primateboy, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

I am not trying to TRICK YOU HONKIE! BBD IS!
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Your anaylsis is piercing Lilian, oh yes BBD, a simple poll conducted will reveal to you that you are seriously underestimating Honkie Tong. You really should have more respect for him. You obviously never seen him cut loose before. You'll regret it.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

from Lilian T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Thank goodness I didn't endorse his view! BBD is so little-knowing about about Tyrannosaurus, he called it a carnosaur. No wonder he is devoting his net-time to dissing it, he actually dosen't know how much cooler than the raptors it really was. Right Honkie?
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Where is Honkie anyway? He is our point player, he provides most of the firepower.
from Lilian T., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

And I think the idea of two chatrooms is a bad one.
from Primateboy, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Fatally wounded? I hardly think so. T-rex would have beaten any raptor of compairable size out of the provibal window as T-rex was pound for pound, more deadily.
from Primateboy, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Prehaps we are underestimating the natural abilities of the Tyrannosaurs and overestimating the natural abilities of the raptors. I believe a Tyrannosaurus was every bit as numble as light footed as a raptor due to a unstable hip socket joint and a ability to shift CG, something the raptors could not do. We did movement anaylisis of Tyrannosaurus(the heaviest Tyrannosaur) and discovered it would have been, pound for pound, faster and more nimble than the raptors. Period.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Well, we like Tyrannosaurus for a good reason, and that was because he was the best. The raptors were never a real threat to Tyrannosaurus rex. For the simple reason they never were. I see your reasoning BBD, but it's like trying to say what the Nazis should have done to win WW2. But still, the simple fact was, they never won. The raptors probally did have a advantage over the Tyrannosaurs but they never explotited it, and lost as a result, comdemmed to play second fiddle forever till extinction.
from Lilian Tay, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

If you have noticed, I have toned down alot. This is because I do not want to end up like BBD. I am joining the T.rex side. It's the right side!
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

I'd notice some people are using the bone theory again. Well, we did a test sometime back on how Tyrannosaurus would have had a septic bite and we discovered that if a piece of meat got into T.rexes mouth and between his teeth, it would be trapped there for good. Sorry Monkeyboy, but Dilophosaurus was even less likely to have a septic bite. (too much JP here) Tyrannosaurus had morning breath that would kill you from ten yards. Monkeyboy you are beaten!
from Charlie, age 12, ?, ?, USA; December 7, 2000

I wouldn't bet on the Triceratops if I were you. Tyrannosaurus would probally achive a 1:120 kill ration on the Triceratops.
from Lilian Tay, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Oh yes Honkie, I concceed your points. I asked my physics teacher about why a raptor cannot be scaled up to 7 tons, and he gave me pretty much the same reasons as you did. You are right, the Tyrannosaurs were deadiler. I guess all that stories about sickle blades and claws on the raptors were well, just stories....Once again, I am sorry Honkie, could you teach me all about dinosaurs? I'm with you. I admit I was misled by BBD.
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Honkie, I'm sorry. I complained to my mother that everyone was ganging up on me and getting me. She wanted to complain, but after reading the post, scolded me that I was being rude, just like BBD. Well, I have just read the New T.rex by Duncan Watt, and it turns out you were right after all. Tyrannosaurus and the Tyrannosaurus in general were the deadilest carnivores. There was even a section on the revised raptors, showing common myths and misconceptions about them. You must have read that book. The reason why I thought the raptors were so good was because I read The New Dinosaurs, which put the raptors up too hight for their own good. Honkie, I conceed your points. I renounce my eariler posts and any alliance with BBD. I am convinced he is now wrong. You are right Honkie. I'm sorry if I tried to gang up with BBD on you.
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

I just remembered, "Carnivore Comments" was the letter page in Jurassic Park comic books. It was also called "Raptor Renderings" or something like that at one point.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; December 7, 2000
Do you want to keep this page with the same name and just add a second page (and which name does everyone like the best)? JC

Carnivore Talk is good.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; December 7, 2000

The board where you talk about dinosuur killing powers should be called Carnovore talk: Which dinosaur is the most powerful?
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000
What does everyone else think? JC

A dinosaur is being auctioned off at Check it out-

The only relativley complete pachycephalosaur skeleton, this must end up in a museum. The owner attempted to sell it on television a minute ago, but the reserve was not met. It went up to $500,000.00 though.

Should we put all of our money together and get this? I have $10.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; December 7, 2000

BBD, Brad is correct, Tyrannosaurs are not carnosaurs, they are advanced coelurosaurs (fairly closely related to ornithomimosaurs). The only dinosaurs that can be considered "carnosaurs" are allosaurids, carcharodontosaurs, and sinraptorids and their close relatives. NONE else.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

I agree with Brad. We need more than one board.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000
Okay, what shall we call the two boards? Suggestions? JC

I agree with honkie tong (or whoever). I clearly understand.
from Ben L., age 8, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2000

Listen, an Oviraptor could whip any small to medium size raptor. I am joining the tyrannosaur group, goy it.
from russell p, age ?, seattle, wa, usa; December 6, 2000

(giggle) BBD called T. rex a carnosaur! (giggle)

I am still not convinced that it was physically impossible for a raptor to weigh 7 tons. Of course, this is not nescessary. BBD wants a dromaeosaur and a tyrannosaur of the same size ot fight. So, perhaps this discussion could actually go somewhere if we were talking about Utahraptor or one of its Asian cousins vs. Alioramus or Siamotyranus? There were 20 foot, one-ton tyrannosaurs, early tyrannosaurs. Sorry to keep this old topic going, but let's say that instead of a 7-ton tyrannosaur vs. a 7-ton dromaeosaur, this fight would involve a >1-ton tyrannosaur and a >1-ton dromaeosaur?

I admit that I'm not a fan of T. rex being a full-time viscious hunter. I'd bet on the Triceratops. But the earlier tyrannosaurs, I like them a bit better. Sometimes overpopularity can make a dinosaur less interesting for me. That's wht I'd prefer to use some barely ever mentioned Japanese raptor over Utahraptor. But since I can't think of its name at the moment, Utahraptor will do. I think that the revised battle would come out much closer, with perhaps both dinosaurs being fatally wounded.

If we can keep the personal attacks to a minimum, can we try this again?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; December 6, 2000

I posted a couple pictures I found and combined using photoshop. They aren't too scientifically accurate, but I like how they turned out.
from Carchardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 6, 2000

Look Honkie, Ive made diagrams, restudied and all that. I dont want to argue or fight and Im not about the whole "fan group" thing at all. The raptors WERE the more deadly than tyrannosaurs because they were extremely light on their feet, had a greater deal of balance, huge cutting overkill claws, high intelligence, much higher agility and a lighter more maneuverable frame. Tyrannosaurs had more firepower, but they had less balance, only a head and big feet as weaponry, heavier on their feet, less agile than a raptor and a less wiry body that had to be more maneuvered on the feet more. And if a tyrannosaur and dromaeosaur the same size did fight, a raptor could bounce around and away from those jaws and feet, and do several severly nast cuts to the trunk, neck and legs before getting hurt himself. A tyrannosaur was the most deadly carnosaur, but not the most deadly theropod. So they were the shadows of tyrannosaurs, so was thylacoleo in the shadow of megalania and the same for smilodon and titanis. Period. Its over honkie Tong. Those are dinosaurian facts that you cant shoot down. All you wanna do is fight and defend tyrannosaurus(not tyrannosaur family) no matter how ridiculous you look. This debate is over and done.
from BBD, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 6, 2000

You know the guy who wanted info on carnivores? Most carnivores
ate the larger herbivores.

from Ben Lee, age 8, ?, ?, ?; December 6, 2000

Better think of something soon JC, 'cause this ain't gonna end soon.
Personally, I'd set up a rules of conduct and ban anyone who sways from it. But I think that's a little harsh ;).

Thanks for sorting the pictures JC. You deserve to be commended.
from DW, age 14, Sngapore, ?, ?; December 6, 2000

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