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Dino Talk: A Dinosaur Forum

Late May 2001

I'm still alive- how about you?

(I mean, over two days!)
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 31, 2001

How big is a magaraptor?
from kyle .H, age 13, Middletown, OHIO, North Amrica; May 31, 2001

Thanks, Cameron. I think it's one of my favourites too. Do you draw dinosaurs?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 28, 2001

Komodo dragons are not dinosaurs. Of living animals, only birds are classified as true dinosaurs. Komodo dragons aren't really close relatives of the Dinosauria either, although they are closely related to the extinct sea lizards called mosasaurs.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 28, 2001

nice Lukosaurus,Brad.
from Cameron W., age 10, ?, ?, ?; May 28, 2001

Let's be nicer to Cameron. So what if he has different views on Tyrannosaurus rex?

Tyrannosaurus was just an animal, and its dead. Its not your friend, your king, or your god. We do not know if it could kill Triceratops, or if it scavenged a lot, or if it ate lawyers off toilets (although we can probably rule out that last one). Why must we be so defensive of it, trying to make it the most perfect killing machine that we want it to be? Tyrannosaur behavior is nothing to fight about.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 28, 2001

Ellie Sattler will not be returning to the island, but she does briefly appear in the movie. There is no official introduction of Utahraptor, but who's to say exactly what those 'raptors' in the JP movies are? Corythosaurus will also appear.

The rich couple are Paul and Amanda Kirby. They go to Isla Sorna looking for their son Eric, who got lost there in a gliding accident.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 28, 2001

I finally saw a preview for JP III. Interesting plot; basically a rich guy and his wife charter a plane to fly over Isla Sorna. They convince Alan Grant & ellie Satler to be guides. Plane crashes and they're stuck on the island. Lots of run-ins and narrow escapes. Old favorite - T-rex - is back. Yes, there is a Spinosaur and some new dinosaur that I think might be Utahraptor. I'm definately seeing it.
from Russell P, age ?, Seattle, WA, USA; May 28, 2001

Q: Can you tell mey what the corythosaurus nests or eggs looked like?
from Kyle C, Sterling Heights, MI, USA; May 26, 2001

A: Neither nests nor eggs from Corythosaurus have been found.

According to Brett-Surman (1979. 1989) _Corythosaurus_ and _Hypacrosaurus_ are very similar osteologically and may be some day shown to be congeneric. And we've got some great nests and eggs of _Hypacrosaurus_.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 28, 2001
Good point, Brad. I've amended that answer. JC

Back to this topic:

This 'cladogram', which I posted earlier, contains an error.

Dinosauria (=Saurischia?)
`?Unnamed Level (1)
. |--Theropoda

Dinosauria is a node-based taxon, defined as _Triceratops_+ Neornithes (Dinosauricon), or _Iguanodon_+_Megalosaurus_. I prefer the latter, but whichever you use dows not affect the meaning:

Dinosauria = Ornithischia + Theropoda

The Dinosauricon has two taxa above Dinosauria that need mention here. Dinosauromorpha is stem-based, Neornithes>_Pterodactylus_. Dinosauriformes is node-based, Neornithes + _Lagosuchus_. Sauropods are certainly dinosauromophs by this definition. In George Olshevky's system, the lagosuchians are not only dinosaurs (complete with erect hind limb and reduced metatarsal V), but 'Theropodomorphs'.

Yes, that message is rather old, and he may have abondoned that position. But let's assume he hasn't, as I've been working on this message long enough! If _Lagosuchus_ is a theropodomorph, Dinosauriformes (probably a synonym of Theropodomorpha) becomes _less_ inclusive than Dinosauria. See also:

The cladogram will read:


Yes, Sauropoda has been excluded from Dinosauria. _Apatosaurus_ is not a dinosaur. (Shocking!) Still okay with that, Chandler? That's if Rey and Olshevsky's idea is correct. Of course, it might not be. I'll study the traditional diagnoses of Saurischia and Sauropodomorpha in Donald Glut's Dinosaurs: the Encyclopedia, and get back to the topic. Maybe we'll finally arrive at a 'cladogram' that works for everyone! (I doubt it, and then what would I do for fun?)
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 28, 2001

Brad, you're probably right, but it depends on the place they were fighting. Deinosuchus would probably hardly leave the water, and it's hard to picture T-rex swimming, though he might be able to. The likeliest place that they would fight would be the riverbank, but T-rex would probably win. However, there is proof that some theropods could "swim", so the fight could take place in the water, where the deinosuchus would clearly have the advantage.
from JOE BOB B., age 11, Menlo Park, ?, ?; May 28, 2001

are komodo drgons dinosaurs?
from matt, age 15, burlington, ontario, canada; May 28, 2001

Speaking of T-Rex vs Deinosuchus...have any of you played "Savage Quest?" I've only found it in the arcades. You play as a pretty po'd mama Rex and basically slaughter/consume everything in your path. There's a confrontation in Level 2 between you and not one, but THREE Deinosuchus. To make matters worse, you fight the trio in their prime terrain: a river. I don't know how accurate the game is, but I can usually defeat the deinosuchi without dying (although I recieve some pretty grievous wounds). But the game makes you face three; a lone deinosuchus would be not much of a challange. But then again, it is just a game.
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 27, 2001

Tyrannosaurus vs. Deinosuchus. Well, the tyrannosaur is a lot taller and faster. It would probably kill the Deinosuchus somehow.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 27, 2001

The whole "prosauropoda" thing is a big mess. Some people think they are the ancestors of the Sauropoda, some think they are just a sister group, and some think that they are more closely related to the ornithischians (in phytodinosauria). Basically I think what Luis Rey was proposing is okay, and what a beautiful Isanosaurus painting!
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 27, 2001

I don't know that a Deinosuchus would even try to attack a T. rex...T. rex was a little bit too big for Deinosuchus to get its mouth around quickly enough to launch a suprise water-hole attack. I imagine that Deinosuchus preyed on drinking medium-sized herbivores.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 27, 2001

Well, if healed marks have been found, that can be taken as indirect proof that it was a hunter--why would a non-hunter try and kill something if it didn't mean to kill it? And Cameron, many hunters have bone-crushing jaws. Actually, the only pure scavengers have very weak jaws (vultures). Hyenas get most of their food from predation, not scavenging.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 27, 2001

Actually, it depends, I'm not sure how much Dinosuchus weighed, but my guess is, if it caught T.Rex while T.Rex was having a swim for some unknown reason or near the water drinking with its guard down, the dinosaur faces rapid extinction. But if T.Rex happened to catch Dinosuchus on land a reasonable distance from the water, the croc faces rapid extinction too. I guess it comes down to a matter of turf. But I think Tyrannosaurus and Dinosuchus probabbly left each other alone. I just can't imagine over what reason they would clash.
from Leonard, age 13, ?, ?, ?; May 27, 2001

What's up with bone crushing teeth being a scavenger? Lots of predators have bone crushing teeth! Besides, T.Rex also had other types of teeth besides maximala like nippers that would have been every effective against live prey.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; May 27, 2001

Funny how T. rex could crush the bones of a living animal all it wanted and not cause any harm....
from Jack, age 300000000, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 27, 2001

T.Rex's teeth were bone-crushers a sure sign of a scavenger!!!
from Cameron W., age 10, Lindsay, Ontario, Canada; May 26, 2001

"If a T.Rex got into a fight with a pack of raptors here 's what would
happen:T.Rex claws and bites and kills half the pack..."

"T.Rex couldn't kill anything!"

Well Cameron, which is it? Actually, we have no evidence of Tyrannosaurus killing anything. Healed bite marks indicte that Tyrannosaurus hunted, but that it didn't kill that particular animal. Eaten bone indicates that Tyrannosaurus was chewing a dead dinosaur, but we cannot prove that the Tyrannosaurus killed it. But even if Tyrannosaurus couldn't kill large ceratopsians or hadrosaurs, I have a hard time beleiving that it couldn't kill animals like Leptoceratops and Thescelosaurus.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 26, 2001

Who do you think would win ? T.Rex or Dinosuchus(terror crocodile)?
from Cameron W., age 10, Lindsay, Ontario, Canada; May 26, 2001

I interperet this article as giving the following 'claodogram'. (dots, as before, mean nothing; but prevent the diagram from being distorted)

Dinosauria (=Saurischia?)
`?Unnamed Level (1)
. |--Theropoda

(1) Defined by reduction of pedal digit V, fully erect hind limb.

So Chandler, what do you think?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 25, 2001

Oh yes, given the mouth area of a Tyrannosaurus, it could easily inflict a mortal injury or a gigantic wound on any dinosaur with a single bite. Deinonychus is just taking small chunks of Tyrannosaurus if it even gets lucky enough to connect. Given this, oh yes, mouth area does play a large part.
from JM M, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 25, 2001

Un oh, take it easy okay? But they do have a point, Deinonychus lacks the equipment to bring down a large animal like Tyrannosaurus. Slashing with its sickle claws is an inefficent way of bringing down a large animal like Tyrannosaurus and its bites won't go deep to do alot of damage. If you want to bring down a large animal like Tyrannosaurus, you have to stab him in the neck with higly evolved stabbing tools or something, and you just might be able to kill him (And given Tyrannosaurus' reputation to survive alot of pounding, I say this is unlikely). Deinonychus lacks all these adaptions and I say that they'll be mincemeat if a pack of them tried to take on a Tyrannosaur with their slashing and ineffectual biting, only to see that its not having too much of an effect on the Tyrannosaurid except making it angry! I suspect due to this reason, even in a pack, Deinonychus did not hunt prey of large size at all.
from Leonard, age 13, ?, ?, ?; May 25, 2001

I think that Carnivorous dinosaurs had feathers because they look like birds.
from Graham G., age 13, Hermon, Maine, USA; May 25, 2001

I like the Brountosaurus,because it's a plant-eater.
from Brittany W., age 7, Candler, N.C., U.S.A.; May 25, 2001

Oh JM, let me do your math for you! Tyannosaurus had a approx mouth surface capacity of about 6.5 sq. feet. While Deinonychus has a jaw with about 0.3 sq feet space...


What the heck, I seemed to have scaled down your estimates, but done nothing really much to the intergity of your theory... carry on.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; May 24, 2001

Unfortunately, indeed, it does seem my calculaitons do involve some rather large approximations and rounding offs. But my point is, while a good connection by Tyrannosaurus is a mortal injury, a single raptor bite or slash is not anywhere near the neighbourhood. In short, as a raptor, you are hardly getting through to Tyrannosaurus while he's hurting you really badly.
from JM M, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 24, 2001

Brad, even if JM M was off on his "dimensions" of a T. Rex's jaws, one point still stands: T. Rex was huge compared to Deinonychus. A pack of little Deinonychus of 150-200 pounds, no matter how masterful or cunning they were, wouldn't have much of a chance again a 5-ton T. rex with 3-foot jaws (hypotheticals - weight and jaw length could be even greater!). Plus, five feet wasn't much more than a foot off the length of some T. Rex jaws. JC sites a T. Rex has having a jaw up to 4 feet in length. Talking about the who-beats-up-who of dinosaurs has a lot of hypotheticals. Please try not to criticize the hypotheticals of others.
from Laura, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 24, 2001

Hello! I posted a message here several months ago to say that I had helped in the construction of an amateur website on dinosaurs. The address is The audience of such great dinosaur fans and budding experts is always appreciated. :-)
from Laura, age 18, ?, MN, ?; May 24, 2001

Your "5ft long X 2ft wide = 10 sq ft of mouth" statement is pretty silly. The jaws taper at the ends, and worse, you didn't notice that there is an upper and lower surface! Plus, I think 5 foot-long jaws for T-rex is a little extreme. The entire skull was five feet long, but that included space behind the mouth.

And what does mouth area have to do with anything?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 24, 2001

Whatdaya mean Cameron? What kind of revisionist paleontology are you following? T.Rex was a hunter!
from Brian, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 23, 2001

Well, though it may seem obvious that a pack of raptors (like Deinonychus) could take on a Tyrannosaurus, by simple math I can prove this to be extremely difficult or even impossible.

If a Tyrannosaurus has a mouth that is, oh, say five feet long and two feet wide(I am doing the math slowly for you science boys and rounding to the nearest foot, of course), that means that the Tyrannosaurus has 10 square feet of mouth surface. I'd say that with that kind of coverage, every time the Tyrannosaurus makes contact with a small Deinonychus body or head (as opposed to grabbing a leg), he inflicts a mortal injury, if not an immediately killing blow. Meanwhile, your average chicken-in-dinosaur clothing has about, oh, say 0.5 square feet of mouth area, which means it can't even encompass one bulging Tyrannosaurus muscle in its wee yapper. So the Deinonychus are just barely breaking the skin, but the Tyrannosaurus just has to stay angry enough to take about twelve bites--okay, allow about five or six extra bites for the Deinonychus as he only gets by a leg the first time. He'll have to go back and take a second chomp once the maimed Deinonychus are down and helpless. Well, some people would argue that the Deinonychus coudl use their sickle claws, but I doubt a gash is anywhere near as deadly as a Tyrannosaur bite. Tyrannosaurus certainly packs more firepower into a bite from his jaws than a pack of six to twelve raptors.

So what is happening is, while the Deinonychus is having trouble slowing down the Tyrannosaurus with their attacks, Tyrannosaurus is tearing them limb from limb. Not really a balanced fight. I just can't see a pack of mabye 12 Deinonychus taking down an animal that could survive Tyrannosaur bites that inflict the damage of 20 Deinonychus. We have to remember that Tyrannosaurus would nto behave like a herbivore of similar weight under attack by a pack of raptors. He is many times meaner and tougher than a herbivore of similar weight, and I think that counts for alot.
from JM M, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 23, 2001

I'm not sure, Velociraptor had a big brain for its size, but it had a simple and primitive brain. In fact, the prevailing theory is that Velociraptor was not really smart at all. Not that he was dumb, but he wasn't as smart as we would like to think. He was most likely of adverage intelligence. In fact, Velociraptor had a realtively simple and primitive brain structure for most of Coelurosauria, with most other Coelurosaurs haveing a bigger and more complex brain. In terms of intelligence, bigger Coelurosaurs like Utahraptor and Tyrannosaurus were most likely smarter and more intelligent than Velociraptor despite having a lover EQ.
from Leonard, age 13, ?, ?, ?; May 23, 2001

Hi, Cameron! Ceratosaurus is a good choice- I really like the way his jaws expand when he's eating! We sort of have a rule here: "Don't say anything bad about T. rex!" But I don't mind your statements. Hmm... a big fat scavenger vs. a big fat fish-eater/scavenger... well, that would be an interesting fight! I wonder what would have made Strutiomimus faster than Ornithomimus or Dromeciomimus?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 23, 2001

The fastest dinosaur was Struthiomimus.Cameron
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 23, 2001

spinosaurus could so have beaten T.Rex !!! After all T.Rex is
nothing but a fat scavenger!!!!!!! Cameron

from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 23, 2001

Spinosaurus could so beat T.Rex !!!
from Cameron W., age 10, Lindsay, Ontario, Canada; May 23, 2001

If a T.Rex got into a fight with a pack of raptors here 's what would
happen:T.Rex claws and bites and kills half the pack but is torn
appart.Cameron age 10 Lindsay

from Cameron W., age 10, Lindsay, Ontario, Canada; May 23, 2001

My favorite dinosaurs are Giganatasaurus, Ceratosaurus, and Megaraptor. Hello to Brad in Woodville.
from Cameron W., age 10, Lindsay, Ontario, Canada; May 23, 2001

I disagree. The smartest dinosaurs are probably parrots, or some other smart modern bird. If you are referring to non-avian dinosaurs (and you run into a probelm if _Velociraptor_ is a flightless bird...), probably Troodon, or, as more recently suggested, Bambiraptor or Microraptor. I'd prefer black velociraptors with red tips.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; May 23, 2001

Hey i think that Velociraptor is really the smartest of all the dinos. Hey does anyone agree? I think they could fo been red with a
hint of black along the tip of their nose to the tip of there tail.
Well bye all.

from Mega A., age 13, Jupiter, Fl., West Palm Beach; May 23, 2001

It means Roof lizard!

from HENRY M., age 10, ?, ?, ?; May 21, 2001

Anybody know about Steggie I'm doing a project on him?
from HENRY M., age 10, ?, ?, ?; May 21, 2001

I heard that in jurassic park 3 there was going to be one small part where the t-rex and spinosaurs are going to fight. Is this true?
from Anthony, age 15, ?, ?, ?; May 21, 2001

I really love dinosaurs!!!!I think there are soo cool!!!!!!Igtg see ya!!!!

Your friend,

from Gary H, age 9, Channelview, Texas, U.S.A; May 21, 2001

I don't know what do you mean by "largest". That's because Spinosaurus had a far slighter build then Tyrannosaurus. In fact, a 13 meter Tyrannosaurus would certainly weight more then a 17 meter Spinosaurus. Enough of that though, I have a sneeking suspision that JP3 is going to be a bomb, it seems to have a big dirth of storyline. Anyway, I've released a special spinoff of Dino Warz Counterstrike called Net Impact, read it and post your comments.
from Billy Macdraw, age 19, ?, ?, ?; May 20, 2001

I love dinosaurus! But which one was the fastest?
from Charles M, age 9, Ascot, Berks, UK; May 20, 2001

Spinosaurus is NOT the biggest dinosaur ever found. The average sauropod was by far larger. If you meant that Spinosaurus is the biggest meat eating dinosaur ever found, you are still incorrect. Perhaps Spinosaurus is the longest, but not the biggest.

from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 19, 2001

Let's stop fighting here, no more T.rex vs. Raptors, there both great.
and what happened to Prosauropoda subject from brad

from Ben, age 12, ?, ?, ?; May 19, 2001

The largest dinosaur ever found now is the Spinosaurus. There were only about three found, one of which was in Germany, a couple of years back. The Spinosaurus is as large as the T-Rex, yet stronger, and will first make it's appearence in the new Jurassic Park III movie. Just wanted to let everyone know, signing off!
from Frank M., age 15, Uvalde, Texas, United States; May 19, 2001

my fave dino is denonichyus I got tons of stuff about dinos and I got a celltion of dinos they are so wicked!!! who gonna vote for deinonchyus???
from sheree-lee, age 12, london, ?, england; May 19, 2001

Hey. I run A web page,, I am looking for some opinions from the pros. Or maybe some... Help?

-Thank you

from Tim M., age ?, Concord, Michigan, United States of America; May 19, 2001

I love dinosaurs; I wonder what the color was. It might be white, red or black !! Someday I'll find out its color !.
from Syamil, age 5, Duri, Riau, Indonesia; May 18, 2001

Sorry, wasn't paying attention to dates. wow that was a long time ago! My bad!
from Joseph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 18, 2001

Well, more then likely the lizard or reptile your wife saw was a member of the Iguana family or another large reptile. they have a ridge down the back and to the unprepared viewer they do look slightly like a tiny dinosaur. well, not a TINY one considering an eight footer isn't all that rare, but never in a pet shop.
from Joseph, age 16, Concord, N.C., United States Of America; May 18, 2001

Say Jeananda (I hope I spelt it correctly), I have another sugesstion for the Fan Fic Page if you don't mind. You see, it's kinda hard to figure out which story in a particular writer's is the latest if he already has a fair amount of stories, like Ruben. If you would be so kind to oblige, sould you also add the title of the latest addition to make things easier? Or better, a hyperlink to the story itself. But that's just a suggestion.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; May 18, 2001
Okay, I'll start as the new stories are added. JC

I love dinosaurs!!I think they are awsome!! What about you? Well,my friend he would die if he could see a dinosaur.Well, igtg see ya!!!

Your friend,

Kelly M.
from Kelly M., age 10, channelview, tx., u.s.a; May 18, 2001

how big can denonycus be.
from Brandon Rago, age eight, brodview hts, Ohio, America; May 18, 2001

Well if they survived life would be almost impossible because the dinosaurs occupy more space and at night it would be creepy with troodon who was active at night
from DONOVAN R., age 10, ?, SINGAPORE, ?; May 18, 2001

I think that the Velicoraptor is one of the coolest dinosaurs. It can run up to 60 mph ( grant it only for short distances, but...) It was enginered like a bird. The part I like is the hunting in packs. 10 or more would go out searching... The razor sharp claw on their middle toe was cool too. They'd slash their prey across their stomach, spilling out their intestines and guts and stuff. Cool, huh...
from Tony W, age 14, ?????, ??, USA; May 17, 2001

i think that dinosaurs are cool
from mike c, age 16, lynchburg, nunya, nowhere land; May 17, 2001

Thank you *bows*
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; May 17, 2001

Yes...I see Honkie...good points.
from Sauron, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 16, 2001

anyone know about the proganchelys
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; May 16, 2001

No no no, Bill and Sauron, you both are wrong. There actually is no 'superior' animal species here. I'll tell you what the true deciding factor is: Nature. Who cares if you are the biggest of fastest? If you are irrevelant to nature, your genes will die a rapid death. I don't believe that there is such a thing as dinosaurs or mammals being superior, but it so happened that nature happened to favour the mammals and they finally beat the dinosaurs. Remember the dinosaurs themselves were also meek before the end of the triassic.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; May 16, 2001

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