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The Test of Time
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Dino Talk: A Dinosaur Forum

June 22-26 2001

Yeah often wrong(Honkie Tong) you deny everything too!
from the antirex, age 13, the power of Sue compels you!, jesus sandles, the holey land; June 26, 2001

Leonard are you sure those were teeth marks? Leonard i wonder if you get the discovery science channel or TLC.
from Sean.S the critic (IT STINKS!), age 13, the power of Sue compels you!, jesus sandles, the holey land; June 26, 2001

Spinosaurus vs. T-man? What happens?

Spinosaurus literally explodes under the force of T-man's jaws slamming down at 3-5 tons of force.
from Damean, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

I didn't say it. But the way you run things, 90percent of the paleontologists in the world would think you're idiot.
from Josh, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

Actually, I doubt if Allosaurus would have won if it attacked in a pack. I've seen nature documentries of Male Lions actually chasing of packs of up to 12 heyena! The reason is simple: Despite having superior numbers, you are goign up against a foe that is far superior to yourself piecemeal. And in the process of attacking him, you might be unlucky enough to be killed, and this is bad for your genes.

Do the Allosaurus know this? It dosen't make a difference. Once they decide to swarm the T.Rex and T.Rex happens to kill one, the rest will make like a tree and get the heck out of dodge. The reaosn is simple: T.Rex was too dangerous to take on, even as a pack. And no Allosaurus is willing to risk the idea that he might be the next to get killed, thus the pack flees. It's common, kill one and the rest run. And if the Allosaurus run, they clearly have lost.

This is common in nature, why? Because all Allosaurus want to pass on their genes and will not risk it in some endavour to take on T.Rex. And worse, if T.Rex feels conered, it might fight the hardest it can and that's bad for Allosaurus.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

"And oh yeah...Honkie Tong let's leave albertosaurus and the others out of this.(this is strictly between the t-rex it's self and allosaurus)"

And later we see:

"Nature must have thought the allosaurids were doing a pretty good job if they made it all the way through the cretaceous period! If that was'int enough the allosaurids had a small cousin in australia to boot! Note: The idea that the carcharodontosaurs were realy abelisaurids is half baked!"

Hmm...mentioning other dinosaurs are we? And of course, nature killed off the allosaurids in North America and they were superceeded by the Tyrannosaurids in the cretacious. In fact, were we found Tyrannosaurs, Allosaurids were extinct. Odd? It was isloation that preserved and saved the Allosaurids in Africa, South America and Australia as the planet was breaking up in the late cretacious. The Allosaurids in those contients were lucky, they didn't survive because they were good. If everythign had been joined, it would have been bye-bye Allosaurids. And besides, Carcharodontosaurs are better classified under Carcharodontosaurie, not Allosauride. But leave other dinosaurs out like you say?

"He has a bone of a diplodocus with deep grooves in it! Yes...this was all made by an allosaurus!"

Those were teeth marks, not claw marks, I had a look at the specimen myself. That's old news, you should read more.

"How fast did t-rex run tyrannosaurus fans?"

About 40-50kph, Allosaurus' best was about 35kph. The reason Tyannosaurus was faster despite its larger size was becacause it was more gracile and took larger strides. Heck, Tyrannosaurus is even faster than Velociraptor. No Triceratops or Hardosaur could outrun T.rex within a short distance but they probabbly outpaced him after a while.

"I'v heard that the talons of birds of prey were as hard as steal!"

Hard to steal mabye, because they were on the bird, but hard as steel? Impossible. The claws were made out of bone and keritin, they could never be as hard as steel. Teeth are tougher and harder than claws, and if animals like T.rex bit so hard that they broke their teeth with regularity, they must be breaking structures tougher than steel...this dosen't bid well for Allosaurus...then again NO they were not as hard as steel.

"Don't patronize me."

Nobody bothers
from Leonard, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

Why carcharodontosaurines (including _Giganotosaurus_) are probably not abelisauroids:

1--the main reason--the 3-clawed hands. Neoceratosaurs have four fingers, and usually they are atrophied (just look at _Carnotaurus_!). All carcharodontosaurines have very strong and 3-fingered hands, so it is unlikely that the carcharodontosaurine condition evolved from the neoceratosaurian condition.

2--the skull, although similar to abelisaurs in _some_ respects, is very similar to sinraptorids and other allosauroids too, and there is no real reason to think that it evolved from abelisauroids. Also, carcharodontosaurines have rather large, long heads compared to their bodies, and most abelisaurs have very short and small heads compared to their bodies. Perhpaps the similarities between carcharodontosaurine and abelisaur skulls are convergence--perhaps they both hunted large prey (carcharodontosaurs usually evolved alongside titanosaurs, and perhaps abelisaurs hunted large animals also).
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

Apparently the blair witch made these marks
from Josh, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

You want me to leave out Albertosaurus? Then how come you keep mentioning other names like Giganotosaurus? And worse, Giganotosaurus is not even regarded a close Allosaur. At least Albertosaurus is also known as Tyrannosaurus Lanceis, and some people consider it a Tyrannosaurus.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

This board has turned into a mess of "dino-fighting" topics!!!
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

T-Rex Could Run At Only 15-20 MPH.Triceratops Was Faster And Could Kill A T-Rex
from euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; June 26, 2001

I have one question. Everyone is talking about how bad JP3 is making
Spino look tougher than it is and how it couldnt beat Rex even
though it beats it in JP3. Well, how can u know wat happens?! ]
JP3 wont be out until July 18. Who knows wats gonna happen?!
T-Rex could win or Spino could win! The bottom line is...

from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ??????; June 26, 2001

Dinoattack what in the eyes rex do you know about allosaurus?!! If t-rex is the only dinosaur you study you can't possibly know that much about other carnivores! I have also been on this earth longer than you have too!
from the antirex, age 13, i won't tell, jesus sandles, the holey land; June 26, 2001

You think i'm an idiot Josh? T-rex and allosaurus were not even related at all!!! Seriously Josh you did'int realy think i was that stupid did you?
from the antirex, age 13, i won't tell, jesus sandles, the holey land; June 26, 2001

Is there any unknown dinosaurs that we don't know
from Adrian J., age 11, Dallas, Texas, USA; June 26, 2001

You know Josh you kind of remind me of that guy who cut down the sequoia and thought he was going to haul it away by using a simple flatbed. Allosaurus predating t-rex is not saying much.(let's be honest!) It's like i said in my earlier messages. Make comparisons not compromises! Nature must have thought the allosaurids were doing a pretty good job if they made it all the way through the cretaceous period! If that was'int enough the allosaurids had a small cousin in australia to boot! Note: The idea that the carcharodontosaurs were realy abelisaurids is half baked!
from a bad dream, age 13, i won't tell, jesus sandles, the holey land; June 26, 2001

Don't patronize me. Ever heard of paleontologist called Dale russell of the university of North Carolina? Ask him about the claws of allosaurus! (and he'll tell you the same thing i just told you!) I'v heard that the talons of birds of prey were as hard as steal! If this is the case with birds it's probably the case with theropods too! Also he even has evidence of this believe it or not at his dig site! He has a bone of a diplodocus with deep grooves in it! Yes...this was all made by an allosaurus! Don't insult me! Ask him..not me! I just wonder what you all are going to feel like when you make the awful discovery though.
from you'r wake up call, age 13, i won't tell, jesus sandles, U.S.A; June 26, 2001

A triceratops at 30kmph? That's like a modern hippo or rhino who might be faster. How fast did t-rex run tyrannosaurus fans? while placodonts and dicynodonts prepared to arm against ornithosuchus and nothosauurus along with eoraptor and herresaurus,the jurassic and creatacous dinosaurs had to be ready to rumble on t-rex and allosaurus.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

And so the fight goes on.There are other 5 tonne critters in cenozoic hippos elephants and blah blah blah.From the 2 metre lysrosaurus and dicynodon to stegosaurus to triceratops to seismosaurus.
from DONOVAN C, age 11, ?, SINGAPORE, ?; June 26, 2001

Tyrannosaurus and allosaurus are both carnivorous dinosaurs known as theropods. Allosaurus is much older, occurring in late Jurassic rocks, while Tyrannosaurs is two to three times as large and occurs in the late Cretaceous rocks (about 80 million years younger). Allosaurus is primitive, with a relatively long hand with three fingers, whereas Tyrannosaurus has a reduced hand with only two functional fingers. There are a lot of subtle differences in the head, backbone and ankle that suggest Tyrannosaurus is more closely related to modern birds than allosaurus. This is a question that a lot of paleontologists have been thinking about and working on in the last 3 or 4 years.

T. rex lived 65 million years ago and allosaurus 145 million years ago. It would have been a bloody battle (on Allosaurus' side), but T. rex would have won easily. It is bigger, with far more powerful jaws, and is more agile. Even though it had such runty arms and one less finger than allosaurus, T. rex could still bite allosaurus to death.
from Josh, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

What do mean a total mismatch!!? Don't compromise. make comparisons you bunch of soar losers! And no Damian this is not a joke! It was either allosaurus that made these marks on sauropod bone or the blair witch.
from Sean.S the critic (IT STINKS!), age 13, i won't tell, jesus sandles, U.S.A; June 26, 2001

Yes it is true that Allosaurus had a rather weak bite, I found the artice to confirm this:
T-Rex Kin May Have Had Weaker Bite
The early cousin of Tyrannosaurus rex had a much weaker bite than the most fearsome predator ever to roam the Earth, so it may have relied on the sharpness of its teeth and a tough but lightweight skull to slash and tear flesh from its prey, a study suggests.

computerized three-dimensional models of a fossilized Allosaurus skull show the 11/2-ton meat eater to be one of the first real ``air heads'' in the animal kingdom, with a skull that was mostly jaws and a snout made up of bony struts.

``It reminds me of a World War I biplane,'' said Gregory Erickson, a Florida State paleontologist who has done extensive work on Tyrannosaurus.

``It has a hollowness to it,'' Erickson said of the Allosaurus skull. ``It's considerably less solid than what you see in Tyrannosaurus.''

The teeth also differ dramatically. Allosaurus was armed with 80 or more thin but sharp ``saber-like'' teeth while Tyrannosaurus had a mouth full of longer, heavier teeth that were shaped more like curved railroad spikes.

Emily Rayfield of Cambridge University in England turned to computerized axial tomography, the X-rays known as a CAT or CT scan, to build a three-dimensional computer model of an Allosaurus skull kept at the Museum of the Rockies at Montana State University.

In an article in the Feb. 22 edition of the journal Nature, Rayfield said the results of computer-simulated Allosaurus jaw motion suggest the huge carnivore was well adapted to taking a quick downward bite of its victim, much like using ``a large, heavy hatchet'' to slice off a chunk of flesh.

Rayfield and her colleagues inferred the hunting strategy when they found their biomechanical analysis showed the overall strength of an Allosaurus bite could barely compete with a modern wolf or leopard, and probably was weaker than a modern crocodile or lion.

``So it was by no means a pathetic bite but it was relatively weak compared to living and extinct carnivores,'' Rayfield said.

By comparison, Tyrannosaurus would have no trouble ``punching through a Ford Explorer,'' Erickson said.

Kenneth Carpenter of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science said the skull structure may have resulted from other adaptations because Allosaurus had a rich potential diet of smaller, relatively defenseless dinosaurs called ornithopods. Allosaurus could have outrun the ornithopods without taking the risk of tackling larger prey, such as the stegosaurus.

Erickson said that regardless of which prey was more typical, the Rayfield study has helped open a whole new chapter in paleontology by blending engineering, computers and biomechanics.

``I think it's an incredible piece of research,'' Erickson said. ``You're going to see young scientists who are coming out with toolboxes of skills that have never been put together before.''

Other researchers are doing a similar CT scan of the only juvenile Tyrannosaurus ever found in the United States, with the help of St. Luke's Hospital in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

note: An inaccuracy in the first part of this article, possibly on the part of the person who wrote this article though, Allosaurus was not on the same cladogram as Tyrannosaurus! The writer must have thought Tyrannosaurus was a carnosaur.
from Josh, age 13, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

I did'int see an outdated documentary!!!!!!!! Ever hear of a documentary called when dinosaurs ruled the earth narrated by Jeff goldblum?( watch it if you get the discovery science channel or TLC!) You know Honkie Tong i also know you'r a menace to society too you jackle! Wow! I tell you. you t-rex fans realy made a believer out of me! For questioning the awsome power and infinite knowledge of t-rex may i be condemned strait to hell where i'll eat not but burning hot coals and drink not but burning hot cola and be tortured by the devil himself: allosaurus! On the contrary Damian you'r the one who's outdated! (don't doubt me! check allosaurus out!) I'm not giving up. So Honkie Tong you want to contradict everything people say huh? (i can be that way too!) I'm gonna start raising hell about everything you say mr.often wrong! I'm still not impressed by you'r propaganda Damian! (so you might as well not even try!) And oh yeah...Honkie Tong let's leave albertosaurus and the others out of this.(this is strictly between the t-rex it's self and allosaurus)
from Honkie Tong 2(sean.S), age 13, i won't tell, t-rex is good,t-rex is great,, U.S.A; June 26, 2001

Spinosaurus is also another thrid-rate, two-bit dinosaur.
from Dinoattack, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 26, 2001

I've been studying Allosaurus, and the more I study him, the more I dislike him. For starters, he can't even look straight. His eyes were on the almost on each side of his head and were not facing forward. This mean he would have had almost no depth perception and that stinks. T.Rex on the other hand had eyes that faced forward like that of a mammalian predator and he would have had excellent dept preception and also, his eyes were bigger, so he would have seen better and further and with depth preception too. Worse, I read that Allosaurus only had adverage arms and a rather small head for a carnosaur. This means that Allosaurus was a sub-standard carnivorous dinosaur that HAD to rely on numbers to survive because they were too weak on their own. T.Rex will have no trouble taking on a pack of these thrid-rate, two-bit carnivores.
from Dinoattack, age 11, Dallas, Texas, America; June 26, 2001

T.rex would have been faster than Allosaurus fragillis.

Sorry, Sean, but T. rex is very gracile. In terms of tibia/femur and metatarsus/femur ratio, Tyrannosaurus is MORE gracile than Deinonychus!! It is also more gracile than any other 5 tonne critter, Mesozoic or Cenozoic!

Tyrannosaurus does not LOOK very gracile, for two reasons: 1) at such a large size, gracile limb proportions look bulky. However, compare the hindlimb of Tyrannosaurus with an elephant, a rhino, a Triceratops, even an Edmontosaurus. You will see that the T. rex legs are more slender and have relatively longer tibiae and metatarsi. 2) The most famous T. rex mount in the world, AMNH 5027, has the wrong legs!! Since this specimen (a gracile morph) lacked hindlimbs, Osborn et al. added casts of the legs of the type (now at the Carnegie). The type is the robust morph, and a larger individual!

Tyrannosaurus limb proportions are more gracile than Allosaurus fragilis. The smaller tyrannosaurids were even more gracile, and the smallest had the same limb proportions to the largest ornithomimids: measurement for measurement, the legs of Alectrosaurus and Gallimimus are identical!

Dromaeosaurids have about the least gracile limb proportions of any nonavian theropod (only therizinosauroids had worse!). Crichton aside, dromaeosaurids were probably not very fast runners relative to tyrannosaurids, ornithomimids, etc. Instead, they were probably cat-like ambush predators, relying on short bursts of high speed, quick turns, and an all-out attack with all four legs and the mouth, too!

If we can use functional morphology as a guide, tyrannosaurids were faster than any other group of large theropod (allosauroid, megalosauroid, neoceratosaur). This may not mean that they were fast as racehorses, but they were adapted to (for a large animal) high speed.

T.rex was certainly faster than Allosaurus.

Furthermore, the feet of the type (and thus the AMNH mount, and thus many many copies, drawings, models, etc., etc.) were and remain(!) incorrectly restored. Not realizing that tyrannosaurids had ornithomimid-like feet, Osborn et al. reconstructed the feet of T. rex after Allosaurus, giving the mount a much broader foot than it should have.
from Holtz, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

Ha! Look at Allosaurus, he's pathetic, lame and laughable. Somebody is trying to pit him against T.REX!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA (Oh pardon me, I can't stop laughing....)

Ok...lets look at it this way. T.Rex fought prey that was fast and dangerous, like Triceratops that could run up to 30kph and was equipped with 1 meter horns. He also faced Ankylosaurus, a virtual dinosaurian tank. The rest of his prey were large, strong, fast-moving hardosaurs.

Ok, lets look at Allosaurus. The most dangerous dinosuar he had to face was a Stegosaur. (I'm not counting the sauropods as they are too slow and large and would only come under attack if they are to weak to defend themselves, so its no fight) Stegosaurus though dangerous, was slow and dumb, and certainly not as dangerous as Triceratops. Either then that, Allosaurus didn't really face any dangerous prey, unlike T.Rex, which had to take on a whole assortment of dangerous prey.

Now, you are saying Allosaurus is even a match for T.Rex???? That's stupid! No! Even if Allosaurus was in a pack, there is virtually no way they are going to take on T.Rex. Look at this, T.Rex can kill them in one bite, and they can't kill him with 20, being the weak jawed buggers they are. So its obvious. Even with 20 Allosaurus, T.Rex would take them down!!!! Heck, we've only found 60 Allosaurus skeletons so far and 30 T.Rex. So the ratio is about 1 T.Rex to 2 Allosaurus. And we are quite sure T.Rex can take on mor ehtan 2 Allosaurus.

Allosaurus loses, even with the advantage of numbers.
from Josh, age 13, ?, Texas, USA; June 25, 2001

The argument that Allosaurus presents any threat to Tyrannosaurus because of superior numbers is patently absurd. The difference between Tyrannosaurus and Allosaurus is akin to that of a modern day F-22 Lightning fighter and an Vietnam era F-4 Phantom. It's a total mismatch. No matter how heavily Tyrannosaurus is outnumbered, he would have easily taken down his opposition, just like F-22s taking down F-4s. And NO, Allosaurus could not defeat Tyrannosaurus if they were the same size, Tyrannosaurids carry far more firepower, power, speed, smarts and toughness then Allosaurus of the same size. So what happens if Giganotosaurus fights Tyrannosaurus? Giganotosaurus dies of course. Honkie, could you do Dino Damaged Allosaurus and Giganotosaurus???

ps: Allosaurus is also considered a short-armed theropod. Can Sean stop potraying it as if it had monster arms? That's simply not true. And no, their claws could not tear through bone, unless its the bone of a very small animal like a compy. How do we know this? Bone is alot harder than keritin, which covers Allosaurus' claws. If Allosaurus tries to tear through bone, he'll break his claws. So the idea of Allosaurus being able to tear through bone is either: a)Not true b)A lie by him to make Allosaurus look meaner c)Both of them.

I think its C
from Mark L., age 15, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

T.rex would trash Giganotosaurs. Period. Allosaurus was not equal to Tyrannosaurus. Period.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

Are you kidding??? A Tyrannosaurus of Allosaurus size like Albertosaurus could easily beat an Allosaurus. And what happens if you scale up an Allosaurus to Tyrannosaurus size??? Well, Tyrannosaurus trashes Giganotosaurus!!!!
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

When you side with bbd you'r in it 4 life!
from Sean.S the critic (IT STINKS!), age 13, i won't tell, t-rex is good,t-rex is great,, U.S.A; June 25, 2001

T.rex outnumbered? That's a sad parody man!!! There was considerable diversity in Tyrannosaurid species during Tyrannosaurus time, hence there were less of each Tyrannosaurid. In Allosaurus' time, predator diversity was less and hence there were more of Allosaurus. Also, Allosaurus could have been more common for the simple reason the prey at their time was huge, like the sauropods, and scavenging them was extremely profitible, hence the ecology could support alot of Allosaurus. Allosaurus was not more numerous because he was better or more sucessful, he just happened on a time where predator diversity was down and prey bio mass was up. But if you look carefully, you'd realize that the predator biomass in both times were about equal. Tyrannosaurus was not outtonned. And he sure makes up in meaness for it.
from Damean speaks again!!!!, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

You must be seeing an outdated documentry. There's no way Allosaurus claws could tear through bone.

Thanks for correcting me Chandeler, after more reserch, I've found out that it was only Giganotosaurus that could have been an abelisaur.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

Katie V, i can tell u wat a Spinosaurus is. it was a very large
carnivorus. it was bipedal(walking on two legs), had front limbs
similar to the velociraptor. It had a crocodile-like head. The call
it a Spinosaurus because of the huge sail of skin runnin down its spine. If u go to see Jurassic Park 3 (cumin to theaters July 18) theyre will be a Spinosaurus in that movie.

from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ??????; June 25, 2001

To end the argument over the T-Rex vs. Giganotasaurus, i'll say this:
If an Allosaurus was the size of a T-Rex, it would have the ability to beat it. Well a Giganotasaurus is simply an Allosaurus that is bigger than a T-rex. Do the math. To sum it all up: The winner of
the fight between Tyrannosaurus Rex and Giganotasaurus.....

from Shane S., age 1000, nowhere, ??????????, ??????; June 25, 2001

I think the velociraptor was the most dangerous because it had very few enemies it was fast it had killer claws on both feet and because it was a meat eater!!!!!!!!!!!!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

I agree chandler.
from Sean.S the critic (IT STINKS!), age 13, i won't tell, t-rex is good,t-rex is great,, U.S.A; June 25, 2001

Oh, now I see the cladogram on the dinosauricon showing carcharodontosaurines within the abelisauroidea...very unlikely. Carcharodontosaurines are very similar to sinraptorids, and _Cryolophosaurus_ looks a lot like a carcharodontosaurine if you take off the crest. And plus we have those allosaurid-like crests and hands.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

hehe...some of the recent dinosaur art is uhh...a bit disturbing.
A nice parody on the JP/// dino-damage though!

from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

"I don't want to pop any bubbles, but there is some debate over weather Carcharodontosaurs and Giganotosaurus were really Allosaurids, they could have more likely been abelisaurs."

Uhh...I don't know where this is coming from, but carcharodontosaurines are definitely carnosaurs, and pretty certainly allosauroids. They definitely are NOT neoceratosaurs (which excludes them from abelisauria).
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

Damian where did you get this idea that allosaurus could not gough through bone anyway?! Heck i have recorded documentaries where one paleontologist shows first hand that allosaurus could tear through bone! If you did'int know this before you obviously don't know allosaurus! Check you'r research before you insult me again. I guess if this is you'r idea of lame,laughable and loser it's pretty comical. Now about that abelisaurus connection to the carcharodontosaurs. Do you have any evidence to base this on Honkie Tong? You all know that whether or not t-rex could defeat allosaurus depends on the situation! 1 on 1 t-rex would win. But sense t-rex were sadly outnumbered compared to allosaurus good luck in a natural setting! And thats my final answer! Theres only the truth and the truth. I could go on forever. This debate is getting ridiculous. Can we get this over with and call a truce? I can be a jerk too! What are we all fighting about anyway!? We are! all dinosaur fans are'nt we? Why can't we accept one another? j.c.
from Sean.S the critic (IT STINKS!), age 13, i won't tell, t-rex is good,t-rex is great,, U.S.A; June 25, 2001

WTH? Comparing T-Rex to Phua Chu Kang?!?

The debate is over. Everyone, move on!

BTW, nothing in science is static. Every once in a while, a paradigm shift occurs and all thinkings change.
from DW, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 25, 2001

Yeah Damian lame , laughable and loser describes t-rex pretty well! T-rex is just like his own breath. (IT STINKS!)
from Sean.S the critic (IT STINKS!), age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; June 25, 2001

This dino battle is going too far isn't it?
from Donovan c., age 11, ?, singapore, ?; June 25, 2001

Ouch, poor compy. Dino battle damage should be banned!
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

"I don't want to pop any bubbles, but there is some debate over weather Carcharodontosaurs and Giganotosaurus were really Allosaurids, they could have more likely been abelisaurs."

Honkie, you don't have to go through the trouble of saying that to debunk Sean, I tell you why: The statement that Allosaurus survived as Carcharodontosaurs is not even true at all!!!! Carcharodontosaurs DID NOT decend directly from Allosaurus and thus Allosaurus does not survive as him!!!! Heck, if we wanted to use his form of argument, I'll say Tyrannosaurus is the most sucessful one, why? Because being a coelurosaur, Tyrannosaurus survives at the aves/birds of today, and that makes him much more sucessful than the Allosaurus group.

Allosaurus has two letter "L"s in it. L is reat for making words like Laughable, Lame and Loser.
from Damean speaks, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001


"Honkie Tonk Made His Dinowarz Wrong About T-Rex Beating Utahraptor. You Lose Intrest In T-Rex Yet?They Were Only Schavengers.That Meant That They Ate Things Other Dinosaurs Killed."

Huh? What's this about me writing Dino Warz? And what's wrong with scavenging? I sure many animals employed this tatic too, its highly likely Utahraptor might had secured meals for small raptors or such.

"An Pack Of Utahraptors Could Take Over The World Without A Missle. They Had 15 Inch Claws." about extreme dinosaur theories. Another one says the raptors were so good, they eliminated everything around them and escaped the planet. There is still some debate about what form of propellent they used for their star ships. On the less extreme scale, some paleontologists even suggested at the peak of raptor mania that Utahraptors were so sucessful at hunting, they probabbly wiped out many animal species, of course, like many of the raptor theories, there has been no hard evidence, only raptor fans...

nuff said.

And I'll bet Stegoceras would win.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

Heh heh heh heh heh heh, the damage has been done, Allosaurus will probabbly go down quite well in dinotalk history as a whimp. Well, trust people to be boneheaded enough to start something like this, hmm...a case of the person starting this debate and not being able to end it??? I wonder who started it??? Let's look at the first message of this debate:

"Allosaurus has a few advantages over t-rex. has unusualy long arms for a meat eating dinosaur. 2.there were more of them than t-rex although they did'int live at the same time. 3. It had huge claws on it's hands. ("as big as utah raptors toe claw that t-rex did'int have.") 4. It had 3 fingers on each hand instead of two. 5. It was probably faster than t-rex due to it's smaller size. So who would win? Well i think 1 on 1 t-rex would probably win because it's bigger and alot more powerful. However since allosaurus was likely a pack hunter the allosaurus would definetly win. You t-rex fans can respond to my comment but don't argue with me!"I'm very correct."
from Sean.S, age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; June 20, 2001

hmmmmmmmmmm.........I'm not implying anything.
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

Anchisaurus vs. Stegoceras???

Anchisaurus is such a dead bugger man!!! Sure, he has da claws, sure he has da weight advantage, but that is not gonna be enough to save his sorry butt!!! Look at Stegoceras!!! I LOVE THIS GUY MAN!!! Sure, he could not but his own head2head like we have mistakently believed, but he sure could put us some fight!!!!!!! Man!!!! Look at Anchisaurus!!!! He has nothing!!!! All he has are claws on his hands!!!! He's gonna end up like Allosaurus!!!! IN FACT HE'S LIKE ALLOSAURUS!!!! A PRATICAL WHIMP!!!! He has claws???? Like Allosaurus IT MEANS NOTHING!!!! Let's look at the non-confs. All he do is eat plants and try to look real mean with his claws!!!!! PLANTS???? YOU GOT TO BEAT THEM FOR ME MAN!!!!!

Look at Stegoceras!!! I LOVE THIS GUY!!!! He's so dominating!!! He's kicking the arse of other dinosaurs with his head!!!! Like T.rex, he don't need no arms and he's gonna prove it. Heck, Stegoceras has CHARACTER and I'll bet he was though by T.rex!!!! With T.rex as your teacher??? You better beat the conf Anchisaurus for me man!!!! This is like the Allosaurus vs. T.rex fight!!!!!! Anchisaurus IS HEADING FOR THE BIG BASKETBALLCOURT IN THE SKY!!!!!

Moral of the story: Sometimes claws don't don't mean nothing!!!
from Damean speaks again, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

How on earth could claws rip through bone???!!!! Isn't ripping through bone and tearnign through bone rather the same thing? I don't see how it was possible. Besides, Allosaurus' limbs were more designed for grappeling than slashing. And claws are designed for slashing, not tearing through bone! It's not possible! Heck, if Allosaurus' claws were so formidible, which they are not, we'll expect to find bones heavily damaged by Allosaurus claw marks, but NO! all we find are Allosaurus bite marks, and the bite marks show that they could not really bite hard, there is absolutely no evidence of the arm claws being used the way Sean says! And if that's not bad enough, Allosaurus' arms were placed too far behind and under its body in a position to be a good weapon for slashing. Those were grapelling hooks mister! And to tear through bone, we need forces of about 2-3 tons, something you would find in the jaw of a Tyrannosaurus, not an Allosaurus claw. Heck, his claw would snap off or go blunt at such stresses.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

I don't want to pop any bubbles, but there is some debate over weather Carcharodontosaurs and Giganotosaurus were really Allosaurids, they could have more likely been abelisaurs. Besides, talk about Carcharodontosaurs and Giganotosaurus is relatively inrevelant as we are talking about North America here, where T.rex roamed, and it's actually quite obvious the Allosaurus were not sucessful enough to cut it there.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

Also allosaurus did'int die out any sooner than any other dinosaur. They survived as the carcharodontosaurs and then probably died out with the rest of the dinosaurs 65,000,000 years ago although there is evidence that dinos survived that event. No allosaurus was not a whimp!! You t-rex fans can talk the talk. But you can't walk the walk! As far as i'm concerned this debate is over! You'r all just making fun of allosaurus! t-rex means nothing if you take it for granted. Sure t-rex is neat and all but it can only do so much. I rest my case. And now it's time to put this debate to rest.
from Sean.S, age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; June 24, 2001

Why are we all talking about meat-eaters like T.Rex? What about Diplodocus or Saltasaurus or Ankylosaurus? Or how about the sea creatures like Tylosaur, or Kronosaur or Icthyosaur, or Elasmosaurus?
from Dragonair, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, ?; June 24, 2001

I did'int mean bonecrushing claws. Sorry about that error. What i realy meant to say was claws that could rip through bone. You t-rex fans do not impress me. And no Honkie Tong you do not have to clarify you'r self. Even if i was wrong it's not like you'r going to talk any sense into me anyway so whats the big deal? If t-rex is you'r favorite dinosaur it's you'r business. (not mine) Besides we are here to discuss dinosaurs. Not put them down. So stop patronizing me! and Honkie Tong why must you always be so cynical? For godsake why can't we all just get along!? Good grief. -a very annoyed Sean.s
from Sean.S, age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; June 24, 2001

"Well it's just a habit of dino fans to put there favorite dinosaurs against one another i guess."

No, its a habit of theropod fans. The very thought of discussing, just as an example, Anchisaurus vs. Stegoceras is strange. Anchisaurs have claws.....
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 24, 2001

Do you have any clue about what I'm saying? Do I have to clarify myself?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

Hmm...I think I'll put in a "twisted" logic argument tonite...

You want to know why T.rex will beat Allosaurus? Like Damean said, T.rex is a non-conformist. He does not follow the cult-of-the-big arm dinosaur and he obviously has a point to prove, as Damean has mentioned.

You see, T.rex, unlike Allosaurus is not a conformist. Look at T.rex's body plan, it obvious that T.rex does not follow the party line for dinosaur carnivores. He is up with his elite bunch of non-conformists that include other dinosaurs like Carnotaurus, Pachyrhinosaurus and other dinosaurs that depart from the common. T.rex, with his overly large heads and small arms, is obviously trying to be different, and he dosen't mind being called "Orbid", andthat makes him what we call in Singapore, an "Ah Beng".

Now that its clear that T.rex is an Ah Beng, we must note that he is the king of tyrant lizards (obviously in refrence to his bunch of Ah Bengs), so if he's the king of Ah Bengs, that makes him on par with Phua Chu Kang the Ah Beng contractor. And Phua Chu Kang is formidible indeed, just check him out.

Now, its obvious that in challanging T.rex, Allosaurus is trying to prove he is also an elite Ah Beng, but since he is an conformist to the part line trying to be an Ah Beng, that makes him a fake Ah Beng, which is in Singapore what we call an "Ah Seng".

The second scientific law of Singaporean Population Charastic Interaction Law states that an Ah Seng can never beat an Ah Beng, so we pretty well know how this is going to end.

So, we all know that T.rex is the dinosaurian equavalent of Phua Chu Kang, we all know that he is the most powerful Ah Beng of the dinosaur Ah Bengs. So, using The second scientific law of Singaporean Population Charastic Interaction Law, we pitt the biggest and baddest Ah Beng, the dinosaurian Phua Chu Kang, aka. T.rex, against an Ah Seng like Allosaurus, the two points are going to work in recprocipal to each other and magnify the effect of this reaction to a point akin to that of the catastrophic annihilation of matter and antimatter and sooner or later, point A on Phua Chu Kang's (aka. T.rex) yellow boot is going to meet point B on Ah Seng the Allosaurus' butt, and Ah Seng the Allosaurus' is gonna say "Gor Buey Liao!" (I am flying!) as he is propelled into the air...

Unfortunately, Ah Seng the Allosaurus is no exception to the The Law of Energy Conservation, which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted into other forms. As the kinetic energy put into Ah Seng the Allosaurus to make him fly converts to potential energy within him, Ah Seng the Allosaurus will start heading towards the ground at an approximate acceleration of 10m/s square after his potential energy starts converting to kinetic after he reaches the zero-point of kinetic energy. Do you want to know what happens next?

Well, Ah Seng the Allosaurus will have just enough time to convert some of the chemical energy stored in his body to sound energy and say "Sieow Liao" (Uh oh) before he hits the ground with all the kinetic energy he now has. The some of the kinetic enegry is converted to sound as he thuds the floor and the rest is converted to some other form. But all in all, the conversion of energy will be too much for Ah Seng the Allosaurus to "tahan" (take), and he will die.

Well, we could lease more Ah Seng Allosaurus on Phua Chu Kang T.rex, but the The second scientific law of Singaporean Population Charastic Interaction Law and the The Law of Energy Conservation will stay true and the Ah Seng Allosaurus pack will be soundly trashed and converitng alot of energy.

Moral of the story: Don't mess with Phua Chu Kang T.rex private limited, the the best in Singapore, and JB..and some say the world eh!

ps: My physics teacher would have been proud.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

"But why can't the oviraptorosaur similarities be convergences? You need convergences to make a therizinosaur. Look at the feet and the jaw!"

Yeah! Look at the feet and the jaw man!
from Honkie Tong Ka Fong Sieow Liao!!!, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

This is a call for "arms" (pun intended)
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

"Claws could tear through bone..."

Yeah right.

And dun call people dense! Its rude. Claws can't tear throtugh bone!!! They dun even build up enough psi to exceed the presure inflicted by teeth! You need teeth to crush bone!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

Claws worse than jaws???? You got to beat him for me man!!! The reason why T-man is gonna trounce Allosaurus instanly is because Allosaurus is a show off, he wants to inflict slow-lingering death on other dinosaurs by slashing them with his claws. Slow death? Ha! T-man laughs at Allosaurus and blows the living daylights out of two! no...three! Allosaurus. Why? Becos T-man has character, he dosen't need to show off, he dosen't need to slash his prey to shreds with his claws to make a point. He simply kills his prey fast and deadly, no feek, Allosaurus is left standing in the dust with his claws!!! T-man kills fast, and he wins!!!

Anyway! I'd like to say, IT DOSEN'T MATTER IF ALLOSAURUS HAS CLAWS ON ARMS!!! Why you heretics ask????? Well becos all the lame and laughable slashign Allosaurus is gonna put up is never, never a match for the damage shoveling 70 kilos of meat out and breaking a heck load of bones and throwing in lotta septic bateria that T-man does!!! Allosaurus is outclassed man!!!! T-man will work through Allowimpy pack like a whirlwind and still have enough energy and time to finish off another Allowhimpy pack man!!! MAN!!! The argument for claws on hands just made Allosaurus look whimpier!!! Man YOU GOTTA BEAT HIM FOR ME MAN!!! YEHAAA!
from Damean speaks again, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

He he...I'd like to sum it up like this:

Allosaurus vs. T.Rex

Allosaurus fragillis

Having "fragile" in the name? Not too good ;)

Tyrannosaurus rex

He is a king of tyrant lizards? You must be real good to be a king of tyrant lizards.

King of tyrant death lizards vs. mr fraglie. I think I see where this is heading...
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

Ten-shun are you dense?! I was'int talking about the jaws of allosaurus i was talking about the claws! Jaws did do there share of damage though! It's claws could tear through bone! It may not be as effective as bone crushing jaws but even more painful! Being ripped to shreds is worse than the quick death of simply being destroyed by bone crushing jaws although you know that those jaws got to hurt! I agree Brad. What would they have to fight about? Well it's just a habit of dino fans to put there favorite dinosaurs against one another i guess.
from Sean.S, age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; June 24, 2001

T.Rex's small arms is nothing to be ashamed off!!! Hell, he was so good at hunting, he didn't even need arms to do so!!!...unlike that whasshaname? All Allowimposaurus...I mean Allosaurus!!! Ha!!! Look at Allosaurus! He's a total confrm, he's nothing new!!! he's nothing special!!! he lacks ORGINALITY!!!! heck, he is just another species in the generic carnosaur dinosaur line that produced so many species that are virtual clones of each other Allosaurus just went to show how senile the entire idea was!!! where is his character???? where is his speciality??? what can he do??? get replaced by other more sucessful dinosaurs that is!!!

Look at T-man!!! I love that guy!!! He's big!!! He's smart!! He's so darn good at hunting that he can beat Triceratops (Also another darn formidible dinosaur) not with one arm tied behind his back, but WITHOUT USING HIS ARMS AT ALL!!! Darn!!! If that's not cool, that's absolutely cool!!! Heck!!! T.Y.R.A.N.N.O.S.A.U.R.U.S is making a point can't you people see??? He's saying I-can-hunt-better-then-you-and-beat-your-butt-off-while-I-am-at-it-without-using-any-hands! Heck!!! I bet one of his favourite pharases is "Look ma! No hands!" Man!!! Is that guy cool or what? His entire family line is radical man!!! They are special man!!! They exceed menthos level coolness man!!! is that powerful or what? He's the baddest and buckwildest of them all!!! YEHAAAAA!!!!YIPKEYAYAYYYYYY!!! Also he has what the generic nonorginal cloned Allosaurus lacks: CHARACTER! Despite being so cool!!! He's not too proud to scavenge!!! Man!!! Is he da man or what??? So powerful and yet so humble!!!

So what happens if Allosaurus decides to fight T-man??? Carnage and death for Allosaurus is what happens!!!! If T.Rex is so good he can defeat also-radical-and-cool Triceratops without any arms!!! Heck!!! He can defeat Allosaurus easily too!!! Heck!!! One of T-man's little hands can defeat Allosaurus with itself tied behind its back!!!! Is T.Rex cool or what???? Heck, those Allosaurus will try to be dirt cheap by piling the number on, but they forget T.Rex has orginality! T.Rex has character! T.Rex has power! T.Rex can easily defeat Allosaur and co. Heck, T-man is also not too proud to hunt alone!!! So friends and co. show up, we have Sue! We have Stan! We have Black Beauty! We have Stephen! We have Scotty! We even have Tinker! The family of rexes will decend on the Allosaurus and destroy them totally!!!! And now you know that scorched earth policies were invented by Tyrannosaurus!!!! HA! Talk about a mismatch!!! Allosaurus is completely outclassed man!!! Allosaurus is about as useful as a blue whale in the Sahara Desert!!! And yes!!! If they call in Giggy Giganotosaurus I tell you the truth!!! SIZE DOES MATTER MAN!!! YES THE SIZE OF GIGANOTOSAURUS MATTERS IN FINDING OUT HOW MUCH BLOOD AND GUTS WILL BE SPILLED FROM GIGANOTOSAURUS WHEN T-MAN FINISHES HIM OFF EASILY!!! Giganotosaurus is about as deadly towards T.Rex as a chicken bite that bites back once in a while! HA!!!! THAT'S THE END FOR ALLOSAURUS AND CO. And its a sad story!!! Cos they forget to never mess with coelurosaurs! Coelurosaurs have raptor! Coelurosaurs have Ttroodon! Coelurosaurs have T.REX!!!! ALLOSAURUS NEVER STOOD A CHANCE!!! T.REX THROWS MANGLED ALLOSAURUS AND GIGANOTOSAURUS PARTS ALL OVER THE LAND!!! Woohoo! I love that guy man!!! Allosaurus is heading for the basketball court in the sky!!!

Moral of the story: If a 6-ton predatory dinosaur has such small arms, he has a good reason for it, and if you see him charging at you at 30+ MPH, you best get ... out of the way instead of commenting on his arms. And of course, share this moral with other dinosaur fans to avoid humiliating defeats by the T-MAN!!! AKA T.REX!!!
from Damean speaks, age 17, Damean city, Damean, USA; June 24, 2001

Lots of people like to make fun of T.rex because he had such small arms, but if they really looked closely, they would be shocked to find out that they are actually an advantage.

Do you want to know why? Well, apparently T.rex had a very good reason for dropping the arms from hunting. Think about it, in see-sawed balanced meat eating theropods, a little weight here woudl dramaticaly affect the body plan. Carnosaurs like Allosaurus elected for arms mainly for grappeling to allow them to use their jaws on the prey animal. Now, this approach has a problem as having arms like these uses up weight that could have been spent in other features up front. As a result, Allosaurus had a relatively lightly built neck and a smaller skull and jaw of compairable Tyrannosaurids.

Look at the Tyrannosaurids, having small arms is actually not a disadvantage. It's a great advantage. Freeing up weight for a large head and a heavily built neck all equipped with strong muscles. In fact, Tyrannosaurids were mainly biting animals, no land animal can bite as hard as the Tyrannosaurids. They were specialized smash-mouth hunters built on body frames built for speed and power. The reason for this is probabbly prolonged contact with large prey can be fatal. Allosaurus had to stay in contact with the prey animal using its arms, causing as much damage with its jaw as possible. But this opens up the possibility of the predator sustaining life-threatening injuries in the process. Tyrannosaurids on the other jaw, probabbly elected to do as much damage with a single bite and stand back to allow the prey animal to die. This hunting method was probabbly better than the last for hunting the herbivores so common later in the mezonic as large grapple and slashers like Allosaurus had all but been superceeded by the one-shot-one-kill animals.

Now Tyrannosaurus was the largest of the Tyrannosaurus. And it brings the one-shot-one-kill method to the extreme. Instead of having the long-light skulls of the Allosaurids, Tyrannosaurus elected a short, shock-absorbing skull and reinforced D-cross section teeth to allow it to bite harder than any Allosaur ever know. So what happens in a fight between the two (yes yes, I know they never met)? Well, Allosaurus can use his arms to try to grapple T.rex and bite him, but that only serves to help T.rex, who notices his opponent has saved him the trouble of bringing his jaw into range. One bite slamming down at the force of a pickup truck will cause injuries more severe than any Big Al ever faced and that the reaosn why I say T.rex will win: he was a one-bite-one-kill animal while Allosaurus was not. Heck, if T.rex was good, he coudl probabbly work through three to four Allosaurus.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

Allosaurus bite harder then Tyrannosaurus? You're kidding man! Allosaurus could only make groove marks on bone at a force about 900-1000 newtons, which T.Rex could penetrate a hipbone of a Triceratops in a single bite at about 10,000 to 12,000 newtons. T.Rex is biting 12 times harder then Allosaurus! And he had a wider mouth (about 1 third wider) which could remove more flesh. Allosaurus is mainly a whimp beside T.Rex and no his arms were not big! Go look at Spinosaurus. And Spinosaurus is also mainly a whip that was overblown in Jurassic Park juz like the Velociraptor.

Heck, do you know why Allosaurus didn't invent time machines? Because they were not smart enough and also mainly because they were all quaking in their tails whenever they hear of T.Rex. T.Rex didn't invent time machines because he was not smart enough, and probabbly also because he didn't care about already extinct whimps like Allosaurus.
from THe truth and nothing but the truth, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 24, 2001

Sometimes I like the herbivores better too. They're just so much more diverse. But theropods are cool too.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 23, 2001

_Alxasaurus_ is the most primitive known therizinosaur, but I think it was too fragmentary to show very many similarities to oviraptorosaurs. _Beipiaosaurus_ is the one that really proved that oviraptorosaurs are related to therizinosaurs.
And the similarities between therizinosaurs and oviraptorosaurs have been ruled as non-convergent because convergence doesn't make sense. Also, _Beipiaosaurus_ has 3 toes, showing it probably evolved from a theropod and then evolved into more advanced therizinosaurs that re-developed the inner toes. And the hands of therizinosaurs are _very_ similar to those of maniraptors.

from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 23, 2001

"I think the discovery of _Beipiaosaurus_ mainly cemented therizinosaurus (segnosaurs) as theropods."

I thought it was Alxasaurus that ended the debate.

"_Beipiaosaurus_ is a primitive therizinosaur and shows similarities to oviraptorosaurs (not ornithischians or "prosauropods") and suggests that therizinosaurs evolved from oviraptorosaur-like dinosaurs and the similarities between therizins and "prosauropods" and ornithischians is simply convergence."

But why can't the oviraptorosaur similarities be convergences? You need convergences to make a therizinosaur. Look at the feet and the jaw!
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 23, 2001

Sean S. you are misinformed...recent studies on Allosaurus indicate a rather weak bite. Large crocodiles it seems can bite harder.
from Ten-Shun!, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 23, 2001

And saying that a pack of allosaurs would beat a lone tryannosaur proves what? I don't think large theropods of different species would fight to the death. What would they have to fight about?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 23, 2001

I'm a Stegosaurus fan because the Thagomizer is one of the most fascinating weapons in the history of life. But yes, I much prefer the herbivores too.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 23, 2001

I think the discovery of _Beipiaosaurus_ mainly cemented therizinosaurus (segnosaurs) as theropods. _Beipiaosaurus_ is a primitive therizinosaur and shows similarities to oviraptorosaurs (not ornithischians or "prosauropods") and suggests that therizinosaurs evolved from oviraptorosaur-like dinosaurs and the similarities between therizins and "prosauropods" and ornithischians is simply convergence.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 23, 2001

We are not talking about who's stronger! All these hateful remarks don't prove a thing! So you think allosaurus is a joke do you? Well heres an episode of the simpsons for you! The truth: while one t-rex is busy killing one of the allosaurus it's friends would be right on top of it. Jaws not being able to crush bone is not an object in this issue! Because we know that t-rex could destroy one allosaur. You also seem to be forgeting that jaws were not it's only weopon! It had huge arms bigger than a large man with 3 fingured hands with claws so big they could rival utah raptors toe claw! Marks on sauropod bones indicate that it could tear through bone! Yet you all talk about you'r beloved t-rex like it's a god. Well i have bad news for you..t-rex was not a god and it's nothing to fight about!!!! Also allosaurus had safety in numbers. Hey don't take my word for it. Just ask some of those paleontologist over in utah. (They will tell you everything you need to know!) I expected more from all of you than just idol threats and insults. Dino fans coexist with other dino fans. Not pound each other into the ground with insults. Before you insult me again think about this! Oh well it's like i said. Don't hate the player. Hate the game!
from Sean.S, age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; June 23, 2001

I`m A Stegosaurus Fan Because Stegosaurs Are Gentle.How Come Erveryone Seems To Like T-Rex And Raptors.Why Can`t Herbivores Be More Popular.
from Euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; June 23, 2001

"Gigantosaurus Could Get Up To 47 Feet Long And T-Rex Could Only Get Up To 40 Feet Long."


"T-Rex Only Had 2 Claws And Gigantosaurus Had 3 Claws."

Assuming it only had one hand and no feet.... Alright, I understood you.

"But Allosaurus Could Kill A T-Rex."

Only if it had a time machine. :)

"An Pack Of Utahraptors Could Take Over The World Without A Missle. They Had 15 Inch Claws."

But they didn't take over the world. Think about it.

"Honkie Tonk Made His Dinowarz Wrong About T-Rex Beating Utahraptor. You Lose Intrest In T-Rex Yet?They Were Only Schavengers.That Meant That They Ate Things Other Dinosaurs Killed."

No it doesn't, scavengers can also eat animals that die of old age, disease, injury, etc. We have no evidence that Utahraptor wasn't a scavenger.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 23, 2001

Q: 1.How did scutosaurus protect itself? 2.what does heavily built mean?
from Donovan c., ?, singapore, ?; June 20, 2001

A: If you mean Scutellosaurus, it had hundreds of bony plates (of six different varieties) that acted as armor. It also had claws, teeth, and a tail that may have been used for defense. Heavily built means that it had solid (not hollow) bones and was a relatively heavy animal (for its length).

But what if he does mean Scutosaurus? It's a pareiasaurid, not a dinosaur, but this certainly wouldn't be the first question on Zoomdinosaurs that had nothing to do with dinosaurs. Scutosaurus had bony armour too, and a heavily spiked head. It was heavily built, and would have used size for defense too.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 23, 2001
I usually assume people are talking about a dinosaur (even though we do get a lot of off-topic questions). The dinosaur names are so often misspelled that I hardly notice it anymore. Also, if the questioner hadn't meant Scuttelosaurus, he probably would have written me back (and he didn't). JC

Should I be ashamed to like Dicreaosaurus because Brachiosaurus is longer and had larger forelimbs? Theropod fans are weird.
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 23, 2001

Gigantosaurus Could Get Up To 47 Feet Long And T-Rex Could Only Get Up To 40 Feet Long.T-Rex Only Had 2 Claws And Gigantosaurus Had 3 Claws.But Allosaurus Could Kill A T-Rex.An Pack Of Utahraptors Could Take Over The World Without A Missle.They Had 15 Inch Claws.Honkie Tonk Made His Dinowarz Wrong About T-Rex Beating Utahraptor.You Lose Intrest In T-Rex Yet?They Were Only Schavengers.That Meant That They Ate Things Other Dinosaurs Killed.
from euoplacephulas, age 8, Alta, CA, USA; June 23, 2001

Big theropods and weapons again? I'll be back when we move on to the plant-eaters again. Just a quick question for Chandler, mostly: How is it completely proven that that segnosaurs are theropods?
from Brad, age 14, Woodville, ON, Canada; June 23, 2001

When people watch Jurassic Park 3 they going to be ashame that the ever like T-rex. Spinosaurus is going to beat the crap out of T-rex. The reason why people like T-rex because it was the first biggest carnivore found and it was found in the United States? T-rexes can get up to 40 feet long and have little tiny arms. But Spinosaurus can get up to 55 feet long and have very big raptor like arms.
They could have name Spinosaurus, Spinezilla

from Ben C, age 14, Brinson, Ga, USA; June 23, 2001

T.Rexer vs Giganotosaurus? Well well well, I'll go with the T.Rexer on this one.

Why? I'm not a T.Rex fan, and I'm not a Giganotosaurus fan either, but it clear that T.Rex, despite being a wee bit smaller (though if the latest finds are right, he would be MUCH bigger), was much smarter than Giganotosaurus. T.Rex's brain was twice the size of Allosaurus and Giganotosaurus' small bananna brains and it was quite certain T.Rex had a far lot more common sense and processing power than those two dinosaurs.

Another reason, Giganotosaurus is mainly a whimp. He had a long, slenger 1.8 meter skull full of teeth, just like Allo-sissy, but his long skull and jaw was lightly built and was not really as well muscled as T.Rex. If Giggy-sissy tried to bite down as hard as T.Rex (about 3 to 4 tons of force!), he would have lost all his teeth and broken his jaw. Not to mention, T.Rexer has those monster nutcracker jaws and those huge bonecrushign teeth. T.Rexer's jaw was also wider and he would have removed more meat (up to 70 kilos) and done more damage in a bite (bone crushing action!). Also, Giggy-sissy's neck was lightly built and was not like T.Rexers' who could absorb 6 tons of animal crashing into prey at +30mph. If Giggy-sissy tried to do what T.Rexer does, he would break his neck. Also, we know that T.Rexer was more heavily muscled than Giggy-sissy. He was a in-your-butt-and-bite-it-off animal while Giggy-sissy was not as stoutly built and was well...a sissy. The more heavily muscl! ed T.Rexer will easily overpower the Giggy-sissy in a fight.

Also, did I mention that T.Rexer had longer legs in proportion to his body? It's true! Giggy-sissy, despite being slightly bigger (but latest T.Rex finds might prove this wrong) stood at about the same height as proportionately he had shorter legs! Mounting such short legs on Giggy is bad, for he will be considerabily slower. In fact, Allosaurus shows this fault too! And T.Rexer is most lekely faster than Giggy-sissy and Allosaurus to boot!

So this fight is nuts! It's like pitting a Bull Mastiff against a Great Dane. Sure, the Great Dane is bigger, but the Bull Mastiff will alway win as its meaner and the Great Dane is mainly a big whimp. And that's what Giggy-sissy aka. Giganotosaurus is, a big whimp and he certainly stands no chance against T.Rexer.

As it has been said many times before. Size does not matter if you are a great big whimp. And Seantheallosaurusfan sobs as his last hope for conquering T.Rexer in carnivorous dino to carnivorous dino is devoured.
from Lody L., age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 23, 2001

Oic Chandeler. So no real T.Rex skin impressions have been conclusively found yet, thanks for correcting me.
from Lillian T., age 14, ?, ?, ?; June 23, 2001

Giganotosaurus beating T.Rex because he was bigger? That's a joke man! Carnosaurs like Giganotosaurus lacked the ability to crush bone, they could only inflict flesh wounds. But T.Rex could crush bone and bite twice as hard as any Giganotosaurus and his skull and body was so solidly built, he will have no trouble biting the living daylights outta Giganotosaurus, no matter how big it may be.

Size does not matter here, as the smarter, faster, stronger, tougher and meaner Tyrannosaurus rex will simply trash the butt out of the pathetic Giganotosaurus and Allosaurus.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 23, 2001

Actually, they have uncovered about 7 other adult Giganotosaurus skeletons and they are smaller then the original hugie they found, at about 30 to 35 feet. It's unlikely that Giganotosaurus got too much bigger and in any case it didn't matter as he was simply outclassed by Tyrannosaurus. And no, Allosaurus would not a better chance against Spinosaurus. They were closer related and in this case, size does matter but then again, both of them were outclassed by Tyrannosaurus. Heck, they could be 10 feet longer then him and he would still trash their butts. Anyway, I hope you restrict your arguments to paleontological fact and not "the tide will turn" as the basis of your arguments, they hold no water.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

Err...there is no such tank called the M1A3. The most advanced version of the M1 Abrams MBT is the A2 variant, with the IVIS system and the CITV plus digital engine control for the gas turbine and an additional aux. rotary engine to improve fuel economy. But there is no such thing as the M1A3, and they do not plan to make one as the new XMBT01 project is already in the works, but that is for the future.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

i like hererrasaurus so much i made up a dinosaur like it!
from glooglie, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

What is the "Tyranosaurus Imperator?"
from Dragonair, age 13, Dayton, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

I have recently been doing extensive research on "Sue" and I don't think any skin impressions were found in association with the fossil. The bones were preserved well enough to see where muscles and tendons attached, but no actual soft tissue impressions were found. And anyways, skin normally does not fossilize (it certainly did not fossilize in Sue's case) so there is no way it could still be attached to the actual bones.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

Lillian, I'm not sure about the "Sue" skin impressions, but theropod expert Phil Currie is publishing (or is it already published?) a paper on his bare-skinned tyrannosaur discovery. I can't give any details until I can see an abstract on the paper...but if Currie is advocating it, it can't be too unreliable.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

_Megaraptor_ is known from fragmentary remains, so no one is sure what it is. It is probably the adult form of the dino-bird _Unenlagia_ (therefore not a dromaeosaur). If it was a dromaeosaur it would be slightly bigger than _Utahraptor_.
And dromaeosaurs do not include all small bipedal theropods. There are only 4 known dromaeosaurids, and many more basal deinonychosaurs (like _Utahraptor_), but there are many, many other theropods that aren't deinonychosaurs (like oviraptorosaurs, ornithomimes, small ceratosaurs, ornitholestids, basal coelurosaurs, and troodonts, to name a few).

from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

All this time I have been hearing about this Megaraptor. I really have no idea what it is. Could someone give me some basic info on this thing? And in some messages, I have heard something about Megaraptor NOT being a dromeasaur. I always thought that all the smaller bipedal therapods such as Deinonychus and Velociraptor and Utahraptor were dromeasaurs.
from Dragonair, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, ?; June 22, 2001

Been a while. If a Triceratops and a T.Rex fought, who could come out on top? Assuming the Rex didn't have a suprise advantage, and it was one on one.
from Dragonair, age 13, Dayton, Ohio, ?; June 22, 2001

i was just in the Dinosaur Fanart section. Brad i really like your Megaraptor painting! or at least i think it was some kind of painting or something. though it's like you're the only one posting there Brad and it's weird. by the way what are we talking about here? i mean the topic changes here like every three days! anyway whoever posted and said Dinosaurs weren't real you are so wrong. cause if the Dinosaurs weren't real how could there be Dinosaur skeletons in some museums today? because they were real! so someone tell me what we're talking about.
from Mariko, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

The argument of the Allosaurus being any form of match-up against Tyrannosaurus Rex is so phenomenally feeble, it must have been brought to us by the letter 'L' -- great for making such words as Lame, Laughable and Loser. I mean, when has the meaness of anything ever kept Tyrannosaurus Rex from crumbling it to bite-sized pieces with delightful munchiness? Dinomeat from herbivores is the mainstay of his diet, but he'll devour just about anything that challanges him. The size od Allosaurus is only relevant as far as trying to calculate just how much Creamy Allosaurus filling is going to squirt out as the Tyrant lizard king stomps on this completely overestimated upstart.
from czarofhappiness, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

As most people know, Hillary Clinton made an appearance on the unvieling of Sue. T-rex and the Hill became close friends after this appearance. It is a little known fact that T-rex was a close advisor for many American presidents, and is now an aide for Senator Hillary. This doesn't bode well for the Allosaurus.

So, this is how I see the fight coming down.

Night falls in the peaceful Allosaurus pack. Black suited shadowy figures with night vision scopes hide amongst the trees, waiting for the right moment to attack. T-rex makes a diversion, pulling the guards attention away from his simple task. (Hey, I've seen tons of movies. I know that they ALWAYS put the dumbest person on guard). Big Al the Allosaur is at his desk facing the window working out the numbers for the day and thinking about firing that dumb@ss who screwed up the marshmellows yet again. What he doesn't notice is the tiny red dot in the middle of his forehead. BLAM!BLAM! Two clean shots to the head and Big Al is down. Another Allosaurus comes to check on Big Al after hearing the shots and the Feds shoot, killing him, but not before he can raise an alarm. All hell breaks loose as the Allosaurus barricade themselves in central park with automatic weapons and the firefight ensues.

The feds try to lay seige to the central park but the media is alerted and shows up in droves. The feds must call off their attack, instead containing the Allosaurus for weeks on end. Finally, the feds get, well, fed up and decide to make one last push into the central park. They send tanks in, guns a- blazing, setting the entire place alight. Allosauruses run for their lives, right into the waiting arms of T-rex, who dispatches them easily with his Crushing Monster Grip (tm). There is Allosaur juice all over the ground, as well as matted in T-rex's display feather/scales (if he had any). The carnage is great, and the Allosaurus never had a chance.

- A concerned citizen
from A concerned citizen, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

I don't like you Lillian. But i would have to take you'r side of the comment on chandler though.
from Sean.S, age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; June 22, 2001

Granted Honkie Tong. M-1A3 happens to be my favorite tank. Oh i understand Honkie Tong i'm not stopping you. If t-rex is you'r favorite dinosaur thats okay with me. You got to admit that allosaurus had a much better chance at defeating t-rex than spinosaurus though. It's like i said neither allosaurus nor t-rex were necessarily better. they were just different. I imagine that if t-rex was bigger than giganotosaurus t-rex would win hands down. However since giganotosaurus had some extra time on earth this would give it time to grow larger in time. They probably would get at least as big as Rigby rex if not bigger. But there is no evidence to support this...yet. But i'm convinced that the tide will turn. Anyway allosaurus is my favorite dinosaur. The dinosaur i hate the most is ankylosaurus. Why? I'll tell you why! I saw wwd. And thats why! It makes me sick thinking about that ankylosaurus that came in there killed the mother t-rex.*shutter* It's sad realy. Well when it comes right down to it if it's about not recreating ankylosaurs i'm way ahead of you Honkie Tong! Thats one dinosaur i don't want recreated! When dinosaurs roamed america is coming up. See you there!
from Sean.S, age 13, i won't tell, ?, U.S.A; June 22, 2001

Apalling. Honestly...anyone who has grown up in America in the last thirty years has seen what Big T. (A.K.A. - Tyrannosaurus rexTM) is capable of. He even attacks Triceratops in his quest for gratuitous meat-fulfillment. I fail to see how a bunch of pansy-Allosaur will be able to stave off the meatseeking SupercoelurosaurTM. In the face of hunger a SupercoelurosaurTM can do anything.

Tyrannosaurus rex wins in under a minute, as he'd eat all the Allosaurus, the Allosaurus hatchings and half the Allosaurus eggs before his content-sensitive stomach is full of with Allosaurus-meat and sends him to the bathroom.

The real moral: If you are made out of meat, and T.Rex is running at you at 30+ MPH, you'd best get the hell out of the way. Oh, and share with others, of course.
from "T" is for T. Man, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

This is one of the best pro-T.Rex messages ever, and using it again in this case is justified for this is such a mismatch.

T-Rex vs.Allosaurus, BABY! IT'S SHOWTIME! And talk about a mismatch. Allosaurus is WAY out of his league. We're talkin' St. Leo's at Georgetown, Baby! I mean, Allosaurus does great in-pack against other medium and small herbivores and sick, about to die sauropods. BUT NOBODY LOSES TO MEDIUM AND SMALL HERBIVORES AND SICK, ABOUT TO DIE SAUROPODS! IT MEANS NOTHING! Let's look at the non-confs. He would be finished off by a single broken toe. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! A SINGLE BROKEN TOE?! You gotta beat those guys for me, baby! We're talkin' CUPCAKE CITY!

Meanwhile, T-Rex is dominating all over. I LOVE THIS GUY! He beats up everybody! He's ripping the heads off duckbills! He's throwing mangled prey parts great distances with JUST ONE JAW! He defeats sailors and kills the entire crew of a ship WHILE IMPRISIONED IN THE CARGO COMPARTMENT! If he wore clothes, he would be one of my diaper dandies, BABY! DIPSY-DOO, DUNK-A-ROO! BLOWOUT CITY! Allosaurus is headin' for the basketball court in the sky!

There you have it.
from Emar for the socially maladjusted, age ?, ?, ?, ?; June 22, 2001

Being around long does not mean you are exactly sucessful, you are still a loser if you get superceeded by another dinosaur. Well, actually Allosaurus was not really a old bunch at all, they were around at around the late Jurassic, dying out soon. By compairism to other dinosaur predators like the Tyrannosaurids, they were not long lived at all! Anyway, as I said, it dosen't matter how long Allosaurus was around as it was the loser as it got replaced directly by the Tyrannosaurids. Tyrannosaurus was not replaced, it went with all the other dinosaurs. Now if you ask me, that makes Tyrannosaurus more sucessful!
from Mody L., age 16, Dayton, Ohio, USA; June 22, 2001

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