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The Test of Time
A Novel by I. MacPenn
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Dino Talk: A Dinosaur Forum

If you like dinosaurs (or anything else), tell everyone about it.
Exchange cool dinosaur facts, tell the world about your dinosaur theories, your fossil hunting adventures, which dinosaurs you like the best, your personal take on the latest dinosaur news, homework problems, or just about anything else you want to talk about.

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October 2000

Hi Brad, read the latest installment? What time is it on your state anyway?
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ....., ....., .....; October 31, 2000

Stegosaurus would appear to be superficially more reptilian though, I would hope. Feathery stegosaurs? I don't think the world is ready for it.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 31, 2000

A .50cal machine gun like the M2 Browning should do it. But it has to be fired from a fixed position, which means you cannot run away as the raptors or rex approaches. Good luck.

Sorry man, I just had a bad morning. One of my country's 747 jets just went down in Taiwan. 66 Dead.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, Singapore, ?, ?; October 31, 2000

I don't have slightest the clue what you are talking. Dinosaurs were more like birds than reptiles, so I have no idea what your wife has seen. It could be a extramely ugly lizard though.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 31, 2000

My wife claims to have seen a reptile at a pet store that looked like a miniature stegasaurus. Does anybody out there know what she may have seen?
from Keith, age 35, New Raymer, CO, USA; October 31, 2000

Buckshot is pretty damaging. I don't think it will just tickle a raptor. Also, a raptor is very muscular so I don't think you wold be able to take it down before it got you! My original question was concerned with survival. So, yeah, injuring or bringing down a raptor would delay the hunt. And I think that only an anti-tank rifle would drive a T-Rex off. Would a heavy machine gun also do?

I see your point Levine and I concede it.
from DW, age 14, Singapore, ?, ?; October 30, 2000

Buckshot will only tickle the raptor. Buckshot is for small animals, not big raptors. If you intend to use a .50 cal to kill a Rex, please file off the fore-sight so it wouldn't hurt so much if the Rex took it from your hands and stuffed it up where the sun don't shine.

How can you say it wouldn't take more than a .50 to kill a Rex? A .50 can't even kill an elephant which is considerably smaller and lighter.If you ask me, a Linstrat air rifle firing a dart tipped with coneshell toxin is the only way to bring any dino down with one shot. But you have to be careful though, the toxin spreads everwhere so you will ahve to wear a NBC suit.
from Bradley .T, age 11, ?, ?, ?; October 30, 2000

Oh yes, I remembered the stopping power formula:

Number of shots taken to stop subject on adverage= Weight of indivudial(divided by ten) divided by power in jules f shot

So it means a Rex weighing 6000kilos from and a 2300 jule .50 bullet will take about: 6000000/10/2300

260 .50 cal rounds on adverage if you hit in in non vital areas.
from Shaun, age 15, ?, ?, ?; October 30, 2000

I beg to differ. The reason I chose even more firepower when dealing with dinos is because dinos are different, here's why.

The problem with these damn dinos is that they are harder to kill than a mammal of the same weight. Thick ribs make a shot to the heart diecy, like birds they don't have a centralised nervus system, making it hard to disable it with a head shot or a spine shot. They are also slow bleeders like birds and reptiles, slow to bleed, slow to die. My idea is killing a dino with one shot.

Rex probally wouldn't be threatened by the noise of gunfire, he has never heard it before and is not used to getting scared. A .50 cal is hardly good enough for the job, you can puncture his lung but it's unlikely to cause a collaspe. Anyway, if you can collaspe the lung of the Raptor, he will still kill you begore he dies anyway. Take bull elephants for example, they take more than a .50 to kill. In fact, I have seen them take down a elephant on TV before, it took them more than 5 volleys of .357 ammo. To say we can disable a rex with one shot is a felony. How do you hit the eye of an animal charging you at 35 miles per hour? (try playing carnivores 2 and you'll see the problem) I propose the smallest weapon we should use is the South African Riotkeeper semiauto shotgun with a 50 round drum magizine firing buckshot and discarding sabot tungsten darts.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 30, 2000

But complex animals are defined by behaviour. I'll tell you how:

One species of dinosaur rooting around in a swamp after a chaotic behaviour change destroys some native plants that were the natural food for some species. This leads to the extinction of the species which leads to the extinction of all those who dependes on them in ecology. Even more dislocations happen and before you know it, it is all over, all by behaviour.

If you ask me, some modern complex animal species on earth are going extinct because of a change in behaviour of another complex
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 30, 2000

Dinosuars are fun and exciting.
from Mondaizie R., age 10, Macon, Georgia, United States; October 30, 2000

I've seen pictures various places on the web of animatronic dinosaurs used in Japanese Dinosaur theme parks. Can anyone tell me the names of these parks? It seems the Japanese hold dinosaurs very dear and in the world of dinosaur sculpture seem to be extremly adept. Can anyone tell me of any english language sites dealing with japanese dinosaur sculptors and thier projects?

also, i noticed further down the list here there are some posts concerning the level of firepower needed to kill various dinosaur species. These posts seem more aimed at turning the dinosaur into hamburger. When hunting this of course is not the idea. IF you are in a situation where you need to be defending yourself against a group of various dinosaurs, a semi-automatic shotgun with a large magazine would suffice. Raptors would not stick around after one of them is blasted in the face with a round of 00. The instinct to survive would cause them to leave or at least suspend the hunt on you. A 12 guage slug to the chest of even a Utah Raptor would collapse its lungs, leaving it gasping for air in the last few seconds of its life. A T. Rex can be driven away with the Buckshot, one shot to the face, and if your aim is good, the loss of an eye will turn a Rex around in its own footprints to leave the area. These are animals, the sound of the gunshot, combined with the stinging burn of the shot would be enough to make most any predator think twice. To kill a T. Rex, or similar size carnosaur would'nt take much more than .50 fired from a rifle. A modern sniper rifle firing a round that large into the side of the chest in the correct spot will cause fatal damage to the respitory system, and if the round hits a rib, the damage will be greater, not lessened as the fragments of bone fly throught the already damaged area, while the now flattened bullet smashes through everything in front of it in a path the size of a basketball. Goodnight Gracie, so they say. But if you're hankering for Rexburgers, by all means fire up the Abrams, but if you're after a Trophy, a tree stand, some scent off, and one big rifle would be all you need........ or couse, i've always wondered how a Triceratops would react to a trap, because real hunters, bring 'em back alive.
from Tea Wrecks, age 65,000,000, ?, ?, ?; October 30, 2000

Dinosaurs information like,where they lived,what colour they are what they eat e.t.c
from AISHA, age 13, KARACHI, SINDH, PAKISTAN; October 30, 2000

Thanks, Honkie Tong for the information. I made a mistake in my original question, I meant to ask for Deinonychus, but anyway I assume that 3 shotgun blast would put them down?

I agree with Levine that the extinction of the dinosuars was probably caused by far more complex changes than just simple disasters. However, I don't think that behaviour fully encompasses the entire scope of the causes. There are far more variables than are acknowledged. Also, complex organisms are not totally insulated from external changes. If the food chain is disrupted at it's base levels, the organisms at the top are affected. That is 1 (rather weak, I think, but it's late and I'm tired) example. But these are just my views. ;P
from DW, age 14, Singapore, ?, ?; October 30, 2000

This is much talk about nothing. All you kids assume an external physical change caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. I propose that is a ridiculus and inrevelant dissusion about nothing. Physical change like a comet hitting the earth or the weather getting too cold did not make dinosauria extinct, as complex animals like dinosaurs have been living through a dynamic, constantly changing enviroment. A change caused by a comet hitting the earth or the weather getting too cold would just be another change- nothing out of the ordinary for the dinosauria.

I propose that internal subtle changes in behaviour caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. As chaos theory goes, due to the butterfly effect, one small change in behaviour will lead to more dislocations, and as soon as it has started, life is over for the dinosaurs. External change did not kill the dinosaurs. Complex organisms have insluated themselves form such changes.

Anyway, a drop in the temperature would not have killed of the marine reptiles or the warm-blooded dinosaurs. Nice try though.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 29, 2000

Some people say a comet hit the earth and killed the dinosaurs. WELL I DON'T THINK SO! I think the dinosaurs died because it got to cold and the plants died and the herbivors died and then the carnivors died because they fed on the plant-eaters.
from Pooja proper names, age seven, hackettstown, New Jersey, U.S.A.; October 29, 2000

Also theres a cartoon I made up called DINOSAURZ PAINTBALL!
from SZAMN, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 29, 2000

oh ok thanx =)
from ?Konfused?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 29, 2000

what do dinosaurs eat
from natasha w, age 11, london, uk, England; October 29, 2000

As a general rule, Dinos should be harder to kill than mammals. Solidly built with thick ribs and skulls, dinos were tough. Take a Grizzly bear for example. People like me know how hard it is to take down a bear with conventional small arms. The smallest pistol you you should use on a bear is a Dirty Harry Magmum 3.56. I personally recommend a Desert Eagle .50 AE. But should I face a bear, give a Berret .50cal Rifle or a M-2 Browning MG. As a general rule, bears weighting 500-900 kilos are so hard to kill, what about a 1-ton Utahraptor? Give me a tank.
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 29, 2000

Dinos take a lot to kill. Real life Velociraptors, at 15-30kg, will take about 1 shotgun blast to kill, or one well placed 5.56mm NATO Full metal jacket. Bigger raptors like Utaraptors are difficult to kill using small arms. A SPAS-12 Auto shotgun firing copper slugs might take it down after a prolonged session. Forget pistols and rifles on killing a Utahraptor. A light Antitank weapon might be useful.

For a T.Rex, forget all small arms and go for a rocket launcher. A M-1A2 Abrams firing a 120mm HEAT or Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) round should kill a rex with one hit.

All Sngaporean males are required by law to attend the army, that's why I know so much.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 29, 2000

I just read Old Blood 11. It was really good. Keep up the good work Billy. Old Blood rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 29, 2000

?Konfused?, Dinowarz and Old Blood can be seen at Vote for Your Favorite Dinosaur page! They are books or other things like that. Old Blood is a more serious story by Billy. DinoWarz is More comical.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 29, 2000

Yeah, I'm with Konfused...I kinda know what "Dino WARZ" is but what is "Old Blood"? Where can I read it??..sounds interesing.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 28, 2000

Whats all this "Old Blood 10" and "Dino Warz 9" stuff about?? Can somebody lemme know?
from ?Konfused?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 28, 2000

Old Blood 10 was awesome!
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 28, 2000

I wouldn't want to kill a dinosaur, so I don't know. Do we have a weapons expert here?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 28, 2000

Hi! I'm new round here. I am awed by the amount of factual data in this web-page! I should have found this place sooner! Anyway, I have 2 questions. Supposing I cloned Micheal Crichton's Velociraptor's (the one's with the iq of chimpanzese, run at 60-70 mph and are social), and supposing something went wrong, how many NATO 5.56 mm rounds or 12-Gauge shotgun rounds would it take to take them down? (I'm guessing that one would be dead before 1 shot can be fired) Also, would a direct shot to the head with a rocket launcher bring a T-Rex down? (Same as above) I know that Dinosaur muscles and skin were probably thick (generalisation, of course there are exceptions) but I would still llike to know how many ;).
from DW, age 14, Singapore!, ?, ?; October 28, 2000

I noticed the same thing too, but I guess since some parts of his story are similar to JP, I assumed he decided to carry some parts over. I would do that if I was writing a 52,000 word story. Good work Bill, reletively original plot. Keep it up.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 28, 2000

it's difficult to describe a raptor good, so i dued JP's description. But don't worry, I'll try to make the story as original as possible.
from Bily Macdraw, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 27, 2000

I just read Old Blood 10. I liked the Oviraptors. Deinonychus's head was one foot long, not two. That seemed to be copied directly from Jurassic Park, Billy. I know, you're building up to the big turning point where everything becomes different, but there are a lot of stolen or slightly modified sentences. What's up with this &hellip stuff?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 27, 2000

from Ryan N., age 13, MJ, Sk, Can; October 27, 2000

How do you think the Sauropod laid her eggs?
from Chelsea C., age 12, Morgan Mill, Texas, U.S.A.; October 27, 2000


Dinosaurs provide tremendous stimulation for the imagination. While we used to imagine the Mesozoic world as a landscape of sluggish swampdwellers, we now envision a world populated by a panoply of colorful, noisy, fast and cunning hot-blooded monsters. This is great for the Dinobiz, but does it make scientific sense? Did Dinosaurs operate under rules of physiology and evolutionary pressure substantially different from those of today? Did they develop markedly better solutions for dealing with their world than those that have evolved since? Let's look at the currently hot group, Dromaeosaurs, popularly known today as the Raptors. In movies, books and magazines these smallish theropods comprised the fastest and nastiest, and possibly smartest Dinosaurs ever. They were dressed to the nines in spikes and knives; cold-blooded homeothermic killers. While all members of this class had an impressive set of saw-edged teeth and formidably clawed forelimbs, it is the hypertrophied claws on the second toes of their hindlimbs that have transfixed our imagination. We are repeatedly told that these agile carnivores hunted in packs, slashing their large but lumbering prey to death in a series of back-foot blitzkriegs. Wait...does this really make sense? Did they really hunt in organized packs? Did they really use those curvaceous claws for slicing and dicing formidable foes into hors-d'ouvres sized snacks? I suspect it was more likely they rarely ate anything that couldn't have been nailed in a one-bite solo effort unless it was already dead. Heresy!!? Stop and consider this from an evolutionary standpoint. As Raptors were lightly built, they probably did rely on speed and agility. As they were bipedal, their back legs would have been essential to their survival. Almost any injury to such important structures would have been rapidly fatal to a creature relying on pursuit speed and kicking power. Want to hurt a back leg? Try to kick a large and angry herbivore that basically consists of thick skin over huge muscles. Ribs, pelvic bones, scutes, shields and flailing limbs would have made vital organs difficult targets. Aside from the likely humiliation of breaking a nail, they would have been at high risk for shattering a leg trying such tactics. Crippled dinosaurs didn't have a high likelihood of reproducing, leaving them losers in Darwin's evolutionary derby. Perhaps that is why they vanished by the mid-Cretaceous, giving way to the smash-mouth hunting tactics of the Tyrannosaurs. It is more likely that Raptors mostly used their razor-like teeth on smaller prey. If they did use claws, it was probably the impressive armament on their forelimbs which would have been much easier to control and less risky to survival if injured. So, what were those carpet cutters for? If there had to be a feeding function, consider other possibilities. They would have been useful for cutting through thick skin after their meal had been immobilized by other means. They could have been used to rip aprt termite nests and beehives, or to dig up whatever resembled prairie dog towns of their era. If they had a taste for escargot, the claws were perfectly shaped for extracting the delicate morsels from their spiral shells.

I'm certain that every reader who has put up with me this far is thinking about the famous Velociraptor versus Protoceratops fossil where both died locked in mortal combat, proving the function of the slashing claw. Yes, the poor Raptor was using its foot, but probably as a defensive weapon! After all, it was probably trying to raid a nest for a meal of one-bite babies when it was attacked by one of those angry herbivores alluded to above. The large slashing claw on the cassowary is a good example of such a weapon evolving purely for defensive purposes. These birds are incredibly dangerous when trapped in close quarters although they are more likely to run away than take chances with their valuable legs in a battle. It makes sense to risk an incapacitating injury only if the alternative is being eaten.

If you are uncomfortable with these magnificent structures solely serving a protective function, what could be a more likely use? Why, sex of course. Many of the most extravagant and bizarre structures in nature are primarily used to attract a mate or to intimidate rivals. A set of large claws could be very useful for displaying to a potential mate or for ritualized combat. Look at the modern rooster, possessing impressive and dangerous spurs, but hardly famed as a fierce hunter.

While difficult to prove either way, it is easier to imagine Raptors having the coordination required for mating displays than the control needed for accurately kicking an opponent in a life or death battle. Despite their reputation for having relatively large brains, it is unlikely that such complex coordination would have been possible. No other animal has developed that style of hunting since, even if birds grab smaller prey with their feet and many animals do use their feet for defensive functions. While on the subject of brain function, I have to add that the concept of Raptors hunting in organized packs inspires incredulity. No reptile, or bird for that matter possesses the social structure to accomplish that and it is doubtful that Dinosaurs with relatively small brain-to-body mass ratios could have pulled it off. Swarming on common prey is observed with many animals including crocodilians, large lizards and vultures, although it isn't truly cooperative social behavior. Finding fossils showing a group of Deinonychus with one large herbivore certainly doesn't prove or even imply social structure any more than finding a collection of flies around a dead rat.

One of the great joys of science is interpreting the evidence available. The Raptors are a fascinating group that truly deserves tremendous attention. All too often it seems that one view of fragmentary data becomes accepted as gospel and is repeated over and over as fact. The most obvious or exciting interpretation is not always the correct one. It is always fun to keep questioning, even if you get branded a heretic.
from Insaniac, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 27, 2000

Sorry bout the mistakes in the english in parts 8-9, I was rushing this one it. But don't worry, I will be posting old blood version 1.1 soon here, with edited content and language.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ..., ..., ...; October 26, 2000

I do not understand this part at all:

In 1995 James Farlow of Indiana-Purdue University argued that a large T. rex could run no faster than 20 mph (32 kph), because if it did, a fall would probably be so severe as to kill it. T. rex weighed about 6 tons and was up to 20 feet (6 m) tall but Allosaurus was slightly smaller, about 3 tons and 16.5 feet (5 m) long. Farlow says that Rothschild's analysis is consistent with his theory since Allosaurus was smaller than T. rex (its smaller mass would make the impact much less powerful so the animal may have been able to recover after a running fall). Giganotosaurus and T. rex were quite similar in size, so Giganotosaurus may or may not have been a fast runner.

The size estimates for Allosaurus and T.Rex seem too samll.I thought T.Rex was 41 feet long and Allosaurus was 32 feet long. Though the weoght estimates were realistic though.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; October 26, 2000

I have some info on Carnotaurus, if that helps. Carnotaurus means "flesh eating bull." It lived in the Cretaceous period.

It was about 25 feet long and weighed 1 ton! The Carnotaurus was a theropod with 2 small brow horns. It had short arms and a long thin tail.

The Carnotaurs' almost complete skeleton has skin impessions have been found in Patgonia, South America. He was named by J.Bonaparte in 1985.

from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 26, 2000

The Tyrannosaurs will escape somehow. But the entire island goes downhill after that. I really should be working on my story now instead of writing all these posts. By the way, I was doing some research on Tyrannosaurus, and I noticed that they only have 37 vertebre in their tails, not 40 as shown in Zoom Dinosaurs...sorry, I was just nitpicking.
from Billy Macdraw, age 8, ..., ..., ...; October 26, 2000

Excuse me? What do you me by escaped Tyrannosaur? It's impossible for the animals to escape. Do not listen to Alex Sophin, he is hell-bent on saying my island cannot work.
from Bradley Verrand, age 72, .., .., ..; October 26, 2000

Such a suggestion is impossible, it simply cannot be done. The island is inherently unstable. Verrand has thrown my calculations out of the window, but the mathematics ae self evident, he cannot escape chaos.
from Alex Sophin, age 35, ?, ?, ?; October 26, 2000

I want to know something about the prehistoric dinosaur carnotaurs I've been looking everywere but can't find anything,please help?
from joseph, age 09, el paso, texas, ?; October 26, 2000

I haven't really had time to read Old Blood yet but I'm sure it is great.(I've only had time to read the first one, it was really great.) You should become a writer when you chose a job, Billy!
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 26, 2000

First of all, I want the company to succeed. I want a big restaurant chain to buy the Edmontosaurus meat. I want to see the public's reaction to eating dinosaurs. I want descriptions of the tv commercials. I want a dinosaur rights group to object to bringing an animal back to life so we can eat it. And then I want some escaped tyrannosaurus to sniff the place out and cause a little chaos!
But of course, you're free to do anything you want in your story.

from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 26, 2000

The next Old Blood installment will be a little late, keep waiting. Meanwhile, what will you like to see happen most in the story?Billy Macdraw
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, -, -, -; October 26, 2000

I am going to state in my story that Velociraptor was mainly solitary, grouping in losely knit packs when going after large prey. (Much like Celophysis in Walking with Dinosaurs) My idea being that Velociraptor was not as advanced as the other raptors, being older in the fossil record and with a lower EQ, added to the fact that no evidence of pack hunting in Velociraptor has been found. Any ideas or objections?
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 25, 2000

Why? what did you like bout Old Blood5-7.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 25, 2000

Do you know I suspect Ankylosaurus have a memory span of only 4 seconds?
Do you know I suspect Ankylosaurus have a memory span of only 4 seconds?
Do you know I suspect Ankylosaurus have a memory span of only 4 seconds?
Do you know I suspect Ankylosaurus have a memory span of only 4 seconds?
Do you know I suspect Ankylosaurus have a memory span of only 4 seconds?
Do you know I suspect Ankylosaurus have a memory span of only 4 seconds?
(He he, just kidding)

from An Ankylosaurus., age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 25, 2000

Another T.Rex question... Is Nanotyrannus a young Tee Rex? How come then Tinker does not resemble Nanotyrannus. How come Tinker had adult type teeth and Nanotyrannus did not? Did young Rexes like Tinker lose his adult like teeth and grow Nano teeth and then lose them when he grew up and replaced them with adult teeth again? Seems unlikely! So is Nano really a young rex or a totally diff. species?????
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; October 25, 2000

Still dosen't really add up. The bulky allosaurs are unlikely to make a living simply by scaring the wits out of smaller animals. Lions do that all the time, but it hardly makes up a big part of their diet.

But I can offer no better explaination. Unlike Tyrannosaururs, which was built for speed and power, Gigantosaururs skeletons showed less muscle scarring and less tendon attatchments. Gigantosaurus skeletons also showed less air spaces than Tyrannosaururs, meaning though it was about a mere 4 feet longer, it was a full ton or ton and a half heavier. All this means that though being smaller, Tyrannosaururs was actually stronger! Which amplfies our question: We know that Gigantosaururs couldn't have served the same role as Tyrannosaurus in it's area....what did it do?

Besides having half the brain size of Rex, we have also calculated Gigantosaurus had half the bite power of Rex. 1500-3000 Newtons compaired with Rexy's record holding 3000-12000 Netwton bite.

Mabye Bill's Dino Warz was not so far-fetched after all. T.Rex could beat a Gigantosaur. (Of course, they never saw each other...but what if.....)

It's 11.39 am.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 25, 2000

Prehaps. But I suspect I know the answer. Animals on a smaller piece of land tend to evolve faster as the small area encourages the propagation of the genes. Larger continents have correspondingly smaller rates of gene propagation, and therefore evolution.

The North American allosaur went extinct long before Gigantosaururs simply because of the higher rates of natural selection in the North American area. Gigantosaurus lived in then South America, which was suspected to be joined to Africa. The slower rates of evolution created a "lost world" effect, where the less advanced dinosauria still survived. Sauropods long though to be extinct still trived in South America when their North American relatives died out.

While the North went on to develop fast moving, deadily designs of which Tyrannosaururs came from, the South was still stagnating. Should a land bridge open up, the North animals would have overrun the South, maybe even overruning Africa. It has happened a few times in our earth's history, but though, not to Gigantosaururs.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 25, 2000

Maybe the big bulky allosaurs were built for scaring the the other theropods into giving them free food.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 25, 2000

when was dinosaurs extinct
from shane p., age 13, burlington, wyoming, burlington; October 25, 2000

Old Blood 5-7 was great! I can hardly wait for more!
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 25, 2000

Hmm... cool mini-time machine effect. Let's increase the time zones to a few million years and then see see what happens..
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 25, 2000

Timecheck. It is 1.22 am over here in Singapore. What time is is over there?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 25, 2000
I got your mail at 10:21 AM. JC

Oddly though, I don't see why the Argentian Carnosaur got so big. T.Rex evolved from the Tyrannosauids, a family specialised at catching the numerous hardosaurs at that time, and T.Rex had aready reached the limit for hunting prey like the Hardosaurs. What did the super-allosauids hunt? They weren't built for speed, but seemed to be built for bulk. Prehaps they were one off losers, going extinct because they were less effective at hunting as the other Argentian Dinos.
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; October 25, 2000

Frankly, I believe dinosaurs didn't take an incrediblely long time to mature. Most animals usually down't make it too far past their prime in the wild. 82-100 years will be a little excessive.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 24, 2000
I agree. JC

The biggest T.Rex skull was 1.7 meters long with a gape of 1 meter.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 24, 2000

Does anybody know how big a basic size of a TREX skull is? I need to know this.
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 24, 2000

Actually, there is a whole book dedicated to raising and cloning dinosaurs, I've read it. I think it is called "The Science of Jurassic Park and The Lost World". It is very good.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 24, 2000

No, it is currently impossible to clone dinosaurs. You will not be able to find infomation. It will only be possible to clone dinosaurs if there is somekind of breakthrough in technology or some new discovery.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 24, 2000

Err JC, this extract from Zoom Dinosaurs seem to have the awfuly long estimates: DINOSAUR LIFE SPAN How old did the dinosaurs get to be? That question is very hard to answer.


Growth Rates:
Growth rates based on maximum growth rates of modern-day reptiles, even though there are probably major metabolic differences. Protoceratops: Adult 177 kg, hatchling 0.43 kg (hatchling weight calculated to be about 90% of the weight of 0.5 liter egg). Age to adulthood calculated to be roughly 26-38 years.

Hypselosaurus : Adult 5300 kg, hatchling 2.4 kg. Age to adulthood calculated to be about 82-188 years.

Ricqlés, A. de. 1983. Cyclical growth in the long limb bones of a sauropod dinosaur. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 28:225-232.

(It's found in the Life Span section. Prehaps it's confusing because people do not know if it's the time taken for them to Mature or its their maximum life span)

from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 24, 2000
Yes, I had forgotten about that reference. It does seem way too high. I looked up the reference and that estimate to "adulthood" was based on the maximum growth rates of living reptiles (which may or may not be a good benchmark - I doubt it is a reliable way of estimating it). Either the reference was incorrect, or some dinosaurs lived for an incredibly long time and were slow to mature, or they grew at a faster rate than modern-day reptiles (indicating that they had a much faster metabolism than living reptiles), or they continued to grow throught their lives and adulthood came much earlier than maximum size (or more than one of the above alternatives).

Age to adulthood means the time to reproductive maturity, but it's hard to tell when this is for an extinct animal. Estimates can be based on the maximum size achieved by the animal, but that is misleading if the animal continues to grow throughout its life (like alligators, which grow until they die - sauropods may or may not have done this). Looking at growth rates can also be tricky, because of metabilic differences and differential seasonal growth (slow growth during cold weather, etc.). This would give Hypselosaurus a life span in the range of well over 100 years (which is long, but not that odd, considering their size; the larger the animal, the longer the life span, usually). Some people have recently proposed life-spans like in that range for some of the huge balleen whales.

Estimates for Hypselosaurus' life span range from a few decades to several hundred years (see Case, T. J. 1978. Speculations on the growth rate and reproduction of some dinosaurs. Paleobiology 4:320-328).

I'm glad you pointed this out to me - I'll change the page you cited. JC

Coooooooooooooooooool web site!
from ??????????????????????????????????????????????????, age ??????????, ??????????????????????????????, ??????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????????????????; October 23, 2000

I just wanted to know if it is possible to clone dinasaurs and if yes where could I FIND THIS INFORMATION
from alisha, age 16, Fontana, Ca, U.S.; October 23, 2000

I don't see why you people are glossing so much over Tyrannosaururs Imperator. The tyrannosaururs don't need T.Imperator to beat Gigantosaururs, the good'ol T.Rex will do.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 23, 2000

I hoped I haven't lost you, this script is a little techncal, bringing in genetics and chaos theory.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 23, 2000

I donno what gave you the idea that Tyrannosaururs Imperator has a 7 foot skull. Besause we haven't uncovered the skull yet. But assuming it's a tyrannosaur (only carnosaur to reach such a size in north america) and scaling the skull from the upper leg bone they have uncovered, We suspect T.Imperator is just a oversized T.Rex. But just for you. Sue-Imperator has kindly let me mesure her. She weights 18,000 pounds excess, and is 54 feet long. Her skull measured 7feet 2inches
from Billy Macdraw, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 23, 2000

You guys are getting worked up about a person who is not 24. Start talking about dinos again! And TREX rules!
from firebird, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 23, 2000

I don't think "T. imperator" had a 7-foot skull. Very little actual information is availible about this unpublished species, most of what people say is just a guess. Dino Warz is Billy's series of humorous scripts published in the Vote for your Favourite Dinosaur page of this site. Old Blood is the serious dinosaur novel Billy is currently posting, also in the voting section. Both are excellent.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 23, 2000

According to the Dinosaur Heresies, my favourite book, average sized dinosaurs (like Ceratosaurus) matured in about 5 years. But if these are cloned animals, clones mature faster (I don't get it, but its something I learned in science class last year).
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 23, 2000

First of all I wanna say, one of the best carnivorous dinosaurs is Tyrannosaurus Imperator: Having a skull 7 ft long(you do the rest of the math) and all the others are cool too, but there AINT no competition.Then you cant leave out the mammals...dont forget Megistotherium! Wooooo!!!Ha-ha-ha! Then, What is Dino warz??? and what is old blood???!!!!! You all keep rambling on about it, what is it?
from Mr.Rogers, age ?, ?, IL, USA; October 23, 2000

Heck, I'll do better than that. Need some info on how long it takes for dinos to mature. The info I get in Zoom Dinosaurs seem awfully long to me. 82-100 years to adulthood??
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 23, 2000
I can't find anywhere where we say that. JC

I haven't really read Old Blood yet. I will print it soon, and then it will be easier to read. The idea is very Jurassic Park-like, but I'm sure you have some completely different problem happen. The Edmontosaurus steaks are a good twist.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 23, 2000

Err guys, I might post the entire Old Blood story here when things quienten down. What do you think of it Brad?
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 23, 2000

from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

Hey, Coolcat. T.Rex is not a god, and we don't worship him. So I don't see why we think you should. Do you think I REALLY CARE IF YOU like the Raptors? No! All we want to hear from you is to admit that T.Rex was meaner and deadiler and more effective than the Raptors, that all! You can go on and like your Raptor. Your Megaraptor isn't even a raptor, tsk tsk tsk. And to think you were such a big raptor fan, when you donno anything at all.
from Godpa, age 43, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

I am a raptor fan and I have a message for all of you. Do not insult us because of coolcat. No raptor fan is like coolcat, she's one of a kind. The raptor community does not reconise coolcat as a raptor fan. Repeat, do not associate coolcat with us, the zoom dinosaurs fan club.
from Raptor Fan Club, age 12, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

You people are too much, ganging up on coolcat like that.....btu if you can't beat them, join them! COOLCAT IS GONE, ALRIGHT YAYYYYYY CELEBRATE, COMON EVERYBODY! CELBRATE! YAAYYYYYYYYY! (My goodness coolcat, i am a raptor fan and even I dislike your attitude.)
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

Ey, Coolcat? YOu want to leave ah? GO lah go lah go lah, and stop making so much noise.
from Short Fart, age ?, Perfect10, 98.7 fm, The E-go trip, 11pm to 2am; October 22, 2000

Under Dino Warz (which is the offical international dino warring legue) Rules, article 11, section 17, no man-made species or anatromic robot of any kind can be allowed. Dinosaurs must fight unargumented.
from Billy Macdraw, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

WYANE, I can give you your answer. T. rex was probally the fiercest and meanest land-based carnivore ever. He was so good, he sent raptores like Velociraptors into decline. Paleontologists no agree that Tyrannosaurs were the deadilest predators that ever lived as they may have hunted in packs of 25-50 indivudials, totally over running the raptors and replacing them as the top predator.
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

I look upond your childish with apaty, Coolcat (Or whatever your alter-egos may be.) Please do the honorable thing and stop sending such LOUD, CHILDISH posts. An alternative is levaing forever-I am fine with both.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

Coolcat, you are the most annoying personality I have encountered in Zoom Dinosaurs. Even all the T.Rex haters are kinder than you. Brad did not insult you, all he did was to poke holes in that Megaraptor2001 type x of yours (Which was a ill-concieved plan to rule all dinosaurs by the way). From what I remembered, the Raptor fans tried using Dinonator to kill the Rexes, but failed. Cheaters never prosper.
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

Coolcat, I never said you were stupid. And I don't worship T. rex, I just don't have anything against it now. I realized you shouldn't hate any dinosaur. And I never insulted Megaraptor, I just said that Megaraptr 2001 wouldn't really do anything since T. rex is extinct. You really haven't contributed much to discussions of real paleontology.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 22, 2000

who knows a lot about t rex and other species like velociraptors
from WAYNE J, age 12, BRIGHTON, united kingdom, england; October 22, 2000

cotuinued.... so people, do you know how to think before you speak? wait, that was a stupid question considering you've offened my friend and i! oh and Kylie sounded offened too!!! you people have offened me many times. i agree with my friends, i am never coming here again. i give you another chance, but nooooooooooooooooo you have to do it again and again! i've waited hours to get this all out of me, and that's what i'm gonna do. i agree with all those trex haters, you can't keep offending people because of the choice they have for a favorite dinosaur. and if all this offends you i'm sorry, that's more than you ever gave me! SO EXCUSE ME IF I LIKE ANOTHER DINOSAUR THAN TREX. and don't try to say anything like: " i am glad that coolcat is gone." because i will still be reading what you say!
from coolcat, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

i can't believe you think i'm that stupid, Brad! i hate it here! you can't get any respect around here unless u fall on your knees and worship trex!oh and thanks for ofending my friend! he was megaraptr!i should have known i should talk with people my age. and you know i had to wait all night to get on the internet juz for people to act like i'm stupid. if you don't respect my choice and my friends then you don't respect me! i juz wanted to fit in, SUE ME!!!!! I AM NOT STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from coolcat, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

i am leaving forever.
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

JP the book, not jp the movie. Would apprecate technical support though. Though I think we are bashing JP too much. It was the first movie to ever portray dinosaurs so realisticly.
from Billy Macdraw, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 22, 2000

sir my name is ali shah and i want some cases on management so plz i am very thank ful to u if u send me any case
from ?, age 20, karachi, sindh, pakistan; October 22, 2000

megaraptr2001 type x is going on a rampage! i can't control him! WATCH OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 21, 2000

how long did dinosaurs live? do you know how many there was back then?
from chris m, age 9, st.paul, mn, usa; October 21, 2000

Coolcat, T. rex is already extinct! You are accomplishing nothing by building big "Megaraptr 2001s" to kill them (and you may be making a few enemies here along the way)!
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 21, 2000

People take JP as serious? I've been reading a huge list of mistakes for that movie, I'll post some of them here. I haven't personally confirmed these though
A Gallimimus can be seen jumping THROUGH the T. rex!
During the raptor birth scene, the robotic arm disappears.
When Ellie and Hammond are eating ice cream, the power is suposedly off- but the fans are still rotating.
When the doctor shows off a piece of amber containing dinosaur DNA, the mosquito inside is male, as can be seen by the antennae. Males feed on nectar.
Oh, and the amber from the Dominican Republic is only 25 - 35 million years old.
'Stegasurus' and 'Tyranosaurus' are actually misspelled on the embryo labels (Confirmed)
In the Lost World, Malcolm looks through the wrong end of his binoculars (when the hunters are coming)

from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 21, 2000

i have the wepon to destroy trex!
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 21, 2000

I am doing a new series called "Old Blood" it's a serious, JP like story. Hope you like it.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 21, 2000

I am thinking of wrapping up this season of Dino Warz, more serious stories or in the making though.
from Billy Macdraw, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 20, 2000

Great article, Honkie Tong. I learned something.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 20, 2000

Scotty is a bit drunk, they cloned him using native scottish bird DNA fragments, explaining his erratic behaviour. He is still chasing the Pyroraptors though....
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 20, 2000

So, though you knew it all about the dinosaurs? Well, think again. Read this and weep as your preconcived notions about the dinosaurs are blow away, as here comes:

Even More Dinosaur Heresies!

An article by the Honkie Tong man.

>From the size and shape of the dinosaur eggs emerging from the dusty badlands of Montana in 1993, it seemed clear that they belonged to Orodromeus, a small and probably mild-mannered plant-eating dinosaur. Delicate Orodromeus bones lay scattered nearby. Soon diggers unearthed the distinctive bones of an adult Troodon, a swift and sharp-jawed meat-eater. Logic would tell you that it had been pilfering the Orodromeus nests.

But wait. Not so fast.

Three years later, scientists discovered tiny Troodons huddled inside the eggs. The adult had not been raiding the nest, but tending it.

"The Orodromeus had been brought back as food for the baby Troodons," says paleontologist Jack Horner of the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, Mont.

New revelations

>From that corrected conclusion cascaded new revelations about dinosaur behavior: Troodon nested in colonies, guarded its clutches and baby-sat its young, even hauling food back to feed the babies. No longer was Troodon a lifeless pile of ancient bones with razor teeth, but a living, breathing, walking creature with fears and worries just like us.

Today paleontologists give life to dinosaurs not simply by assembling their bones in museum displays, but by inspecting those bones and their surroundings for signs of the life they once supported. For instance, Tyrannosaurus rex's arms seem so small that it's hard to imagine they were useful. But the Late Cretaceous kingpin clearly used those arms for something - perhaps grappling with prey - because the scars where muscles attached to the arm bones of the now-infamous T. rex named Sue are "humongous," says paleontologist Kenneth Carpenter of the Denver Museum of Natural History.

"These muscles would have been comparable in size to a human thigh," he says. "Right there we flesh out what the animal looked like and how it would have behaved."

Behaving like modern animals?

It also helps to look at the flesh-and-blood animals of today for similarities with the dinosaurs of yesterday. Modern animals like ostriches with long and slender legs are fast runners, so it makes sense that dinosaurs with such legs could have hustled along just as quickly. Since today's fish-eaters such as porpoises and crocodilians boast conical teeth - the better to skewer their dinner with - dinosaurs with conical teeth, such as Suchomimus of Africa, probably went fishing for supper, too.

"It's what we call comparative anatomy," explains paleontologist Thomas Holtz of the University of Maryland. "Different animals have solved problems in similar ways, so we look at similarities in their anatomy and, consequently, their lifestyles."

Past and present animals with similar lifestyles might well have behaved in similar ways, too. Sure, T. rex's serrated teeth look awfully mean and nasty, but would it have been good business for such a predator to have acted mean and nasty?

"Think about the big predators we have today - lions and grizzly bears, for instance," says Anthony Russell, a professor of zoology at the University of Calgary. "They don't go around scaring the life out of everything. There's not a value in being nasty. Lions don't want their prey to run away. They don't go running toward their prey, growling and making a big racket. They sneak up, trying to be as quiet as possible, until they get close enough to pounce. We see them as fearsome, we don't see them as bullying, and it makes sense biologically that T. rex would have been the same way."

Social behavior

But the big tyrannosaurs, including the species known as Albertosaurus, Gorgosaurus and Daspletosaurus, may have been bullying with their own kind. New research by Darren Tanke and Philip Currie of the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta, Canada, shows that nearly half of all tyrannosaurs in museum collections they examined bear distinctive gouge marks from the teeth of other tyrannosaurs on their faces.

"That's like going to the shopping mall and seeing that every other man who walks by has a broken arm," Tanke says. "Something is going on in the population in terms of behavior that's causing this."

Today, social animals such as wolves that live in groups almost always establish some kind of social hierarchy, and Tanke suspects that's what tyrannosaurs did, too. Especially younger dinosaurs, "being socially inept, would be fighting for food or social status and they would have been facing off, biting each other on the head and trying to avoid being bitten."

Injuries provide clues

The more active modern animals are, the more injuries they sustain, and dinosaur injuries reveal sure-fire evidence of their habits. Paleontologists have long suspected that Stegosaurus swung its spiked tail like a medieval mace at attacking allosaurs, but it was only when Denver museum volunteer Lorrie McWhinney closely examined 51 stegosaur tail spikes up to 2 feet long that she found the proof: about 10 percent of the spikes showed healed fractures or other signs of traumatic injury.

"There's no doubt, if they sustained that kind of injury, they were swinging those spikes with great force as an active part of their system," McWhinney says.

Even predator-prey relationships show up well on the fossils of the predators. After studying the fossils of Tyrannosaurus Rex, McWhinney came to the conclusion that Tyrannosaurus had encountered Ankylosaurus- an lost. Sue a compound fratures in one of her legs that was hard to heal, making it impossible for her to run after her prey. The fracture was at Ankylosaur tail level, giving proof as to how Ankylosaurus caused such a massive injury. "It was amazing that Sue could even walk after that- showing that Tyrannosaurus were extremely tough and hard to kill." McWhinney says.

Such wounds also give a clue as to the social life of Tyrannosaurus. "Sue must have had a mate to bring her food." says McWhinney. "The injury would have slowed her down so much, even scavenging would have being difficult."

Artists have long drawn horned dinosaurs like Triceratops using their horns to defend against attacks by T. rex and its brethren, but a study of horned dinosaurs turned up few injuries to the horns themselves, suggesting they were intended less as weapons than elaborate decorations. In the same way, Raptors have long been portrayed as the ultimate killer, but any evidence as to injury sustained from hunting are sorely lacking, pointing to more of a heyna's lifestyle than a lion's. Adult duckbill dinosaurs, though, suffered many crushing fractures of the spool-shaped vertebrae in their tails that sometimes healed at unusual angles. Were the duckbills using their tails as weapons?

Or were they just clumsy?

"I'd like to think it's probably because they're living in herds and they're just stepping on each others' tails," Tanke says. "It's a consequence of their lifestyle."

Great bone beds in Alberta and the Gobi Desert of Mongolia - full of dozens or even hundreds of dinosaurs that died together - provided the first strong evidence that some species traveled together like the vast herds of bison that once roamed the American Plains. Even more evidence emerged from trackways where dinosaurs left their monstrous footprints in mud or sand that later turned to stone. Tracks along the Paluxy River in Texas seem to show a group of carnivores trailing a herd of about one dozen long-necked plant-eaters, although it's unclear just how closely one followed another.

"There's always the question with tracks of: Do they represent one single event or is it an accumulation over time?" says University of Wyoming paleontologist Brent Breithaupt, now studying newfound tracks of dinosaurs that strutted along an inland sea during the Middle Jurassic. "One has to be careful not to let the thrill of the fantasy lead the interpretation."

An article by Honkie Tong
from Honkie Tong, age 16, Hougang, East, Singapore; October 20, 2000

did anyone enjoy being in dino warz? i did! (i know trex did win, that's the part i hated!)
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 20, 2000

I am number1 My friends are so much fun yes! smooches and crazy kat A dino sat on her a** and then she drank some tea!!!
from Kandy, age 12, il, ?, united states; October 20, 2000

Thank you, coolcat. I don't have any story ideas right now, but I do promise to keep writing dinosaur stories.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 20, 2000

Stegosarus is not lousy either. The lousiest dinosaur has to be a sauropod, since they show the littlest variation and probably led very boring lives. Apatosarus seems rather bland compared to all of the more recently discovered sauropods, but it is not the lousiest. That could be Camarasaurus- no, that's still cool. I'd say the lousiest dinosaur is the chimeratic pug-faced weak amphibious brontosaur of the old picture books. But real dinosaurs? They're all too cool.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 20, 2000

Dino Wars 9 is different, but it's still funny. I liked it. But, where is Scotty? (Scotty isn't a Scottish dinosaur BTW, I'm pretty sure he's from Saskatchewan)
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 20, 2000

This is a pro-Tyrannosaur song for all you Tyrannosaur-haters.






DON'T HATE ME.........


from Honkie Tong, age 16, Singapore, ?, ?; October 20, 2000

Dino Warz 9, it's finally here. Be warned though, this eposide is very different from the adverage Dino Warz. You've been warned.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 19, 2000

i'm back! oh and i enjoyed being in dino warz! yo, i liked your story Brad. it was goooooooood! keep writing!
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 19, 2000

I know size dosen't matter, but in for Gasparinisaura, it's simpily ridiculus!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 19, 2000

WHAT??? Hehe, Gasparinisaura and Gallimimus are sooo cool! They are not lousy! The lousiest dinosaurs have to be the stegosaurs, though they are pretty cool too.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 19, 2000

DEATH OF A DYNASTY It's the end of an era.
Dino Warz 9

from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 19, 2000

The Dino Warz book of records.

1. Most uninvolved kill, Brad's much anticipated match between Compsognathus and Brachiosaurus! They didn't even touch each other!

2. Oddest kill: The Tinker swallowing trick.

3. Grossest kill: Take your pick

4. Bloodiest match: Dino Warz 3, over 8000 raptors died.

5. Lousyiest dino: It's a tie between Gallimimus and Gasparinisaura

6. Biggest disapointment: Gigantosaurus

7. Biggest cheaters: Raptors

8. Weakest heart: Gallimimus

9. Biggest mismatch: It's a tie between three fights. Compy vs Brachi, Rex vs Gallimimus and Rex vs Gasparinisaura.

10. Most number of kills in a single move: 18 done by Sue

11. Shortest match: T.Rex vs disgrunted Gallimimus fans, 12.539 seconds.

12. Greatest unexplained mystrey in Dino Warz: How the heck did tinker use a machine gun?

13. Most overkilled dino: Raptors.

14. Best dino: Need you ask? Sue and company.
from Billy Macdraw, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 19, 2000

Will the little guy make it? Will he survive the raptors? Find out in the next Dino Warz!
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

DONG ZHIMING Dong Zhiming is a Chinese paleontologist who named the following Chinese dinosaurs: Alxasaurus (with Russell, 1993), Archaeoceratops (with Azuma, 1998), Bellusaurus (1987), Chungkingosaurus (1983), Datousaurus (1984), Gasosaurus (1985), Gongbusaurus (1983), the familty Homalocephalidae (1978), Huayangosaurus (1982), Hudiesaurus (1998), Kelmayisaurus (1973), Microhadrosaurus (1979), Micropachycephalosaurus (1978), Nanshiungosaurus (1979), Shanshanosaurus (1977), Shunosaurus (1983), Siluosaurus (1998), Sinornithoides (with Russell, 1994), Tianchiasaurus (1993), Tugulusaurus (1973), Tuojiangosaurus (1977), Wuerhosaurus (1973), Xiaosaurus (1983), Xuanhanosaurus (1984), Yangchuanosaurus (1978), and Zizhongosaurus (1983). He worked extensively with Dong Zhiming, and also worked with Li, Tang Zilu, Zhang, and Zhou Shiwu, who were co-namers of many of the above-listed dinosaurs

Ps. Can you put chinese dinosaurs in Dino Warz?
from Zhang S., age 15, Beijing, ?, China, people's republic; October 18, 2000

Coming up on Dino Warz 8. Please place infomation on Gasparinisaura!

Tyrannosaurus versus Suchomimus, Pyroraptor and disgrunted Gallimimus fans!

Location: Argentina, to settle any doubts of the countrymen of Gigatantosaurus who is the meanest.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

I still don't feel so good after swallowing that dinosaur, my stomache hurts! It's because he was much large than me? Ow! Mummmmm! Mum? Mommmmieeeeeeee!
from Tinker, age 8, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

Did people enjoy my little story? I had fun writing it.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 18, 2000

Kat R., could you please post a few reasons for us being descended from tyrannosaurids? I'd really like to see that!
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 18, 2000

Brad: I'm currently here at the local dinosaur battle arena waiting for the much anticipated match between Compsognathus and Brachiosaurus. While these dinosaurs are still preparing for the fight, the famous T. rex trio of Sue, Suzie, and Sue-Imperator have dropped in as part of thier world tour for an autograph signing. Let's go check it out!
Sue: Hello, Brad. It's nice to see you here. Wait, you don't vote for us!
Brad: Uh, yeah, sorry about that. Can you still sign this poster for me?
Sue: Okay. I'll just use my claws [rips a hole in the poster]
Suzie: That's not how you sign stuff! [bites the corner]
Sue-Imperator: Here, I have a pen. Oops! I shouldn't put so much weight on my hand when I'm writing!
Brad: [takes back the torn pieces of paper] Thanks, this is really cool! Now I'm being told that one of our contestants is ready for battle-it's time for an exclusive interview with Compsognathus!
Compy: Hi, Brad. I've trained really hard and I think I'm ready for my first battle!
Brad: Your going up against Brachiosaurus as your first battle? He's pretty big.
Compy: Yes, well, me being a carnivore and him being a herbivore it is pretty obvious who will win.
Sue-Imperator: Who?
Compy: Me, of course! You should know that carnivores always win dino battles!
Sue: We should get going, we have to be at a battle in Argentina for tomorrow.
Suzie: Yeah, we're going to fight their top dino!
Brad: Giganotosaurus?
Suzie: No, Gasparinisaura!
Brad. Oh, that's nice. Have fun!
Manospondylus gigas: Not so fast! I challenge you to a dino war!
Brad: This could be very interesting. I'll put up some info on our new challenger:
Manospondylus gigas: Tyrannosaur named by E. D. Cope in 1892, Manospondylus gigas was based on two dorsal vetrebrae. One was lost or misplaced in the early 20th century, and this dinosaur was pretty much forgotten when Tyrannosaurus rex entered the spotlight. Manospondylus is considered an invalid synonym of Tyrannosauurs.

Manospondylus gigas: That's right! I deserve to be king of dinosaurs, I was discovered first. But I end up just another forgotten fossil-I don't even have a snappy nickname!
Brad: Sorry to hear about that, Manospondylus gigas.
Manospondylus gigas: To prove that I'm the real king, I'll defeat the T. rex trio in battle!
Sue: One of you against three of us? I think we can handle that.
Dynamosaurus impersious: You're forgetting about me, rexes! You stole my fame too.
Brad: The challengers are still outnumbered, but this new guy looks angry.
Dynamosaurus impersious: Described by Osborn at the same time as Tyrannosaurus, Dynammosaurus impersious was reffered to T. rex the next year, in 1906. Although some have recently reassessed the validity of this genus, it has never achieved the same fame as the tyrant king. Also considered an invalid synonym.

Brad: I can see why you're upset. Brachiosaurus hasn't shown up yet, so I guess we'll see this settled now.
Compy: He's probably afraid of me! I am so scary!
Sue: Okay Manospondylus and Dynamosaurus, let's fight! T. rex will always be the most popular dinosaur!
Suzie: Yeah, you can't beat a dinosaur whose name means "tyrant lizard king!" We're roylaty!
Dynamosaurus impersious: My name means "power lizard," because I'm powerful!
Manospondylus gigas: And my name means... [flips through Greek dictionary] manos, manos... "Porous vertebra." Dang.
Sue-Imperator: Enough chatting, let's finish them off so we can catch our plane.
Suzie: Good idea!
[Sue grabs Manospondylus by the leg an throws him out of the arena]
Manospondylus: Hey, this fight is rigged. Wheee!>CRASH<
Brad: Well, I'm just making sure I don't get killed off if I make any more guest appearances in Billy's Dino Warz.
Sue: Smart move.
Suzie: Look, it's Tinker.
Tinker: Billy says we have to leave soon... hey, who is that?
Dynamosaurus: I'm the true king of dinosaurs!
Tinker: No you're not [swallows Dynamosaurs whole]
Brad: I guess that's over. Bye, rexes!
Compy: Now its my turn to fight Brachiosaurus.
Brachiosaurus: I'm here, and I'm ready to win!
Brad: Great, its time to see what we came for. Standing in one corner is Brachiosaurus from Colorado, an impressive beast measuring 75 feet and weighing in at over 30 tons! In the other corner is Compsognathus from Germany. He is three feet long and weighs a full eight pounds!
[Compy whispers something to Brad]
Brad: Oh, and I've just been informed that he's really scary and eats meat! Meat!
Brachiosaurus: So? I'm invincible! Not even Allosaurus can beat me.
Compy: Yeah, well you're made of meat.... and I eat meat raw!
[Brachiosaurus takes a step towards Compsognathus]
Compy: Aaaugh! The pressure! I'm collapsing out here!
Brad: It looks like Compy has been crushed by Brachiosaurus's shadow! I've never seen that happen before!
Compy: Am I going to be okay?
Brad: Sure, you just make sure you get lots of-
Compy: Meat!
Brachioaurus: I'll be leaving now.

from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 18, 2000

Thanks for posting the writing tips, Bill! DinoWarz 7 is the best ever!
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 18, 2000

How old does one have to be to post an e-mail address?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 18, 2000
I'll have to ask our legal advisor. I'll put his answers here when I get it. JC

Tyrannosaurus imperator. Length: Up to 52 feet (15 m). Height: Up to 23 feet (7 m). Weight: Up to 18,440 pounds (9 m tonnes). When a creature seems to be at the pinnacle of its evolution, what could possibly be the next step? Getting bigger and nastier, that's what. Even 60,000,000 years or so after transplantation, Tyrannosaurs did not evolve much. The ultimate predator, the killer of killers, is still Tyrannosaurus, but bigger than T. rex: T. imperator, the Emperor of the Tyrant Lizards. Here, we see a blackdeath, as they are called, warning other predators away from its kill, a Pachyrhinosaurus, with a mighty roar.
from Blackdeath, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

HELENA, Mont. (AP) -- What may be the largest Tyrannosaurus rex fossil ever found has been unearthed on a Montana cattle ranch, touching off a dispute over who has claim to the site. University of Notre Dame paleontologist Keith Rigby said identification of the fossil is not yet complete, but if it is not a T-rex it may be a completely new variety of dinosaur -- and the largest meat-eater ever found. "There is some possibility that it may be new, and T-rex may have to become 'T-who?"' Rigby said Tuesday. Rigby said he found a pubis bone, one of three bones in the pelvis, that measures at least 52 inches, compared with 48 inches in the largest T-Rex fossil ever measured. However, the femurs, or thigh bones, which paleontologists normally use to estimate the size of dinosaurs, are still unexcavated. The find is "exciting, but not earth-shattering," said J. Michael Parrish, a dinosaur expert at Southern Illinois University. He said only a couple of dozen T-rex specimens are known and the largest size keeps changing, but that Rigby is probably right that his would be the biggest T-rex known. Parrish said other carnivores found recently in South America and Africa are thought to be larger than a T-rex, but comparisons among species are difficult. Rigby said he was forced to reveal the find before the fossil could be confirmed because of an unauthorized excavation over the weekend, which prompted federal agents to intervene to keep bones from being taken away. James Rector, a lawyer who has been helping Rigby, said he saw two sons of the former landowner and other relatives using a tractor to dig at the site on Sunday. Rector said he alerted the FBI and the federal Farm Service Agency, which owns the land. No one was arrested, but the FBI is investigating. Rector said he asked Steve Walton, a son of former landowner Edmund Walton, what he intended to do with the bones and the man replied: "I'm going to save my farm and feed my children." T-rex fossils can be extremely valuable. A 50-foot fossil nicknamed Sue, which was found in South Dakota in 1990, is expected to bring more than $1 million when it is auctioned next month at Sotheby's in New York. Rigby said he began work at the Montana site more than a year ago with permission of people who claimed to own the land, but he later became suspicious. He said he did a title search and found that FSA took ownership of the land several years ago. Two men who identified themselves to The Associated Press in separate calls as Steve Walton and his cousin, Fred Walton, said Tuesday the group did not take anything from the site and were there merely out of curiosity. Both said ownership of the land is still in dispute and they might be entitled to some money from the dinosaur find. A similar fight was waged over Sue, one of the most complete T-Rex fossils ever found. It was seized by the government in 1992 from Peter L. Larsen, the fossil dealer who excavated it. The government said the land where Sue was found was under federal jurisdiction and off-limits to Larsen. Sotheby's is selling the fossil on behalf of the Sioux Indian on whose ranch Sue was found.

Fossil gives clues into T. rex's behavior CHICAGO (AP) - In ''Jurassic Park,'' the terrified kids held perfectly still so a hungry celluloid Tyrannosaurus rex couldn't detect them. In reality, scientists say, they would've been lunch meat. CT-scanning of the desk-sized skull of Sue, the most complete T. rex fossil ever found, suggests the supreme carnivore in North America 65 million years ago had acute senses. Its forward-pointing eyes provided a wide field of view, and ear structures suggest it could hear well. But Sue's key advantage was smell. Its olfactory bulbs were grapefruit-sized. The skull opening for the bundle of olfactory nerves leading to the brain is wider than the spinal cord. ''The olfactory bulbs are larger than the cerebrum,'' said paleontologist Chris Brochu of the Field Museum of Natural History, the only scientist to have extensively examined the Sue fossil. The dinosaur ''smelled its way through life,'' he said. Sue's skeleton will be unveiled at the Field Museum on May 17 after nearly three years of cleaning and assembly. For now, it is off-limits to outsiders. Brochu has yet to reveal many details. At a recent paleontology meeting, he said it was unlikely that the bones, however complete, would settle key debates about the superstar of dinosaurs. Among them: T. rex's color and vocalizations, whether it was warm-blooded, hunter or scavenger, male or female. Others are more hopeful. Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. of the University of Maryland examined Sue briefly before it was auctioned in 1997, but key parts were still jacketed in protective plaster. ''The complete tail of a T. rex has not yet been described,'' he said. ''I would like to see if the furcula, or wishbone, is present.'' Peter Larson, president of the Black Hills Institute of Geological Research in Hill City, S.D., directed the fossil's excavation in 1990. He spent two years examining the bones until they were seized by federal agents in a legal dispute. He believes the Sue fossil is an older female. Among predatory birds, fish and insects, females are larger than males, he notes. Sue has a wider pelvis that would accommodate egg-laying. And, similar to crocodile anatomy, she lacks an extra bone that male crocs and smaller, presumably male T. rex skeletons both have. Reading behavior based on bones is trickier. Sue's teeth are foot-long cylinders with serrated edges. Her stomach contents included acid-etched bones of a duckbilled dinosaur. Other T. rex remains include bones from triceratops and other plentiful herbivores. A T. rex gulped everything and relied on a powerful digestive tract to process bone and horn. In the movies, T. rex is a solitary killer. But many scientists believe the real-life carnivores hunted in packs. Evidence? The Sue excavation also yielded juvenile and infant T. rexes in the same location. Long before dying, Sue suffered a broken left leg that was slow to heal. ''She couldn't have hunted on it,'' Larson said. ''I think her mate helped her.'' How did Sue die? T. rexes fought each other, probably over territory, food and mates. Embedded in Sue's ribcage is the tooth of another T. rex. The left side of the skull is smashed, with holes along her jaw. Brochu doubts it is evidence of a fatal encounter. The holes don't line up with the bite of a T. rex, he said. Larson disagrees. ''In her last fight she didn't do so well,'' he said. T. rex might have ruled North America in the late Cretaceous Period. But on the roster of the biggest and baddest dinosaurs, some formidable predators are emerging around the world. In March, scientists announced the discovery in Argentina of a yet-to-be-named meat eater that lived 100 million years ago. At 45 feet, it was 10% longer than T. rex. It had a long, narrow skull with scissor-like jaws, whereas the T. rex had nutcracker jaws. ''It probably attacked and dismembered its prey with a surgical precision,'' said Phil Currie of the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta, Canada. ''T. rex was a creature of brute force.'' In 1998, researchers in central Africa found Suchomimus tenerensis. It was as large as a T. rex, but it prowled 30 million years earlier. Its pointy crocodile-like jaw sported 100 teeth. It also had 16-inch sickle claws. In Argentina, Gigantosaurus was discovered in 1995. It weighed 50% more than T. rex and was a contemporary of Suchomimus about when Africa and South America were connected. It had thin, flat teeth like daggers.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

10 little dinosuars bouncing on the bed
Pacyacephalasaurus fell off and broke his head
Momma called the doctor and the doctor said
"No more boneheads bouncing on the bed"
(that dino has a big boney plate on his head)

9 little dinosaurs riding on a bike
stegosaurus crashed and smashed up his spike
the policemen yelled from atop his trike
"No more nut-brains riding on a bike"
(stegos only had brains the size of walnuts)

8 little dinosaurs munching on a mooth
Tyrannosaurus chomped and broke his tooth
the dentist shouted from the dentist booth
"No more sharp tooths munching on a mooth"
(trex had lots of sharp teeth)

7 little dinosaurs rafting down the river
Spinosaurus flipped over and went all aquiver
the lifeguard said with a cold, wet shiver
"No more silly sails rafting down the river"
(spinosaurus had a large sail on his back)

6 little dinosaurs jumping off a peak
archepoteryx dove off and tweaked his beak
one called the ranger and the ranger shrieked
"No more feather heads jumping off a peak"
(archeopteryx was the 1st dino with real feathers)

5 little dinosaurs playing in the street
ankylosaurus saw a car to beat
he charged and ran and went down the street
"no more dino tanks playing in the street"
ankylosaurus was covered in armor like a tank)

4 little dinosaurs acting sorta cool
Suprasaurus wore his shades to school
the teacher sighed "why thats against the rules"
"No more super lizzards acting sorta cool"
(suprasaurus was the longest dino)

3 little dinosaurs on a camp out
Chasomsaurus asked whats that lava tube about?
then he slid down the tube and he blasted out the spout
"No more frill seekers on a campout"
(chasomsaurus had a big frill on his head)

2 little dinosaurs watching baseball
Saurolophus yelled "hey thats a bad call"
The umpire didnt like that talk at all
"No more big mouths watching baseball!"
(saurolophus had a huge mouth like a snake)

1 little dinosaur walking all alone
the sun burnt triceratops into dried up bones
"look" called the scientist "at all the fossil stones"
"No more three horns walking all alone"
(triceratops has 3 horns)

No more dinosaurs hanging on the brink
they all dissapeared in a geologic wink
the doctor cried "well this just stinks"
"No more theyre all EXTINCT"

from Darryl F., age 10, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

Dinosaur Top Ten for 1996 John Schneiderman took a poll of many of his friends who are paleontologists orjust plain dinosaur fans! He added them all up and made a list of the most popular dinosaurs for 1996.
John said:

First of all, I would like to thank all the individuals who submitted their list of (13) favorite dinosaur genera. I received 92 replies, with a total of 1150 names (not all respondants provided 13 names). According to the Dinosaur Mailing List there are 799 dinosaur genera ...that have appeared in the literature... Of course not all these genera are currently considered valid,... So I've come up with a count of 407 valid dinosaur genera names, and of this, 137 dinosaur genus names were picked by all those who responded to this survey. There were some non-dinosaurs picked: Kronosaurus, Dimetrodon, and Deinosuchus, and some modern Dinosaurs (birds): Falcon, Bald Eagle, Penquin, and Parakeet.

Here is the list of the Dinosaur Top 10 in David Letterman order! TA DA! (the comments come from John S.)

10. Archaeopteryx -- 25% Yes...birds are Dinosaurs !

9. Allosaurus -- 26% The nasty killer of the Late Jurassic and into the early Cretaceous.

8. Parasaurolophus -- 27% John thinks it's because of the cool crest.

7. Oviraptor -- 28% No longer given a bum wrap for eating Protoceratops eggs, now a loving, strange-looking, brooding mother.

6. Utahraptor -- 29%

5. Stegosaurus -- 31%

4. Apatosaurus -- 32% Although 31% prefer the name "Brontosaurus".

3. Triceratops -- 39% What can I say, 3 horns, a solid frill, and an attitude.

2. Deinonychus -- 42% What every small child wants to be when they grow up.
and finally...

1. Tyrannosaurus-- 56% he (she) might not be the largest of the terrestial meat-eaters, but still without question, the King (Queen)!!
from John S., age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

An Exclusive: The making of Dino Warz (The serious version)

Hi, I am Billy Macdraw, and I am the manager of Dino Warz- Tinker? Yes, can you stop waving your tail? It's annoying. Thank you.

Okay, if you wanna write about a dino battle, here are some tips.

Get a good cast: At first, the T.Rex was juz called T.Rex, but I decided Sue would be a better choice as she is the most famous T.Rex in the world. One thing lead to another and before you know it, we have Sue and Sue-Imperator.

Character: You characters need to have character. Sue is ravenous, Suzie like to act. And Sue-Imperator? Well, she is the youngest of the three, though she is the biggest

Setting: The current use of Zoom Dinosaur regulars like Honkie Tong, Brad, Levine make the story hilarious and relate to the user.

Comedy: Dino Warz is built around comedy, though it can get pretty serious sometime.

T.Rex: Don't write a dino battle without it, or write about it losing any battle. (my personal opinion)

Time: Each story takes me about 2 hours to write, so if you are not type, don't try it.

That should be enough. And Cya on the flipside!
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

Dino Warz 7, it's out! This one is done in honour of Rex fans across the globe.
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

Rock T.Rex
by Robin W. Don't wanna be sleezy
pleez juz let me
I ain't got no family plan
don't just bleeze me
give me, permission to land!

I do wanna rock, T.Rex
But you're making me feel so good
Is it gonna stop, T.Rex
For you're making me feel the ground

from Robin W., age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 18, 2000

Hey I knew that, I was just carrying out a thought experiment!
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

Yes, Kat.R, you are indeed far behind time. I seriously suspect that it's a minority who thought we are decendants of Tyrannosaurus.

Tyrannosaurus had excellent eyesight. The poor/ frog eyesight theory was just idle specutlation cooked up by the scavenger camp. It's quite impossible for a Tyrannosaur to see that way, quite impossible. I do believe that Tyrannosaurus had better eyesight than a dog. Tyrannosaurus is closely related to the birds, most of which had good colour vision. In fact, Tyrannosaurus had better hearing, eyesight and smell that the other dinosaurs of it's time. Yes, Tyrannosaurus could swim if it wanted to.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

I think Leonard knows that, he is just weighting the two dinosaurs out. I am quite sure kids like him know these facts. Though I do agree with him. Weighing all the pros and cons, my money is on Tyrannosaurus if we could clone them and pit them together.

Nanotyrannus is not a juvenille tyrannosaurus, the discovery of Tinker showed that juvenille tyrannosaurus are very sdifferent from nanotyrannus. Tinker had T.Rex teeth even when he was young, no nanotyrannus had that. Mabye you are a little back in time, but the debate has been settled, Nanotyrannus is indeed a seperate Tyrannosaur that lived alongside T.Rex

Don't believe me? Visit to find out for yourself.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, Singapore, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

I would like to reply to a "Leonard" who was talking about a fight between tyrannosaurus rex and a gigantosaurus carolini. The two would NEVER have met. There was a shallow sea and 30 million years separating them. Please, e-mail me, questions, doubts, I post theories, thoughts, and corrections on her all the time. My internet name is carcardontosaur, kat r., or simbaspirit. My e-mail once again is @@@@#$@$
from carcardontosaur, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000
Sorry, but the FTC (Federal Trade Commision) does not allow us to list kid's e-mail addresses. JC

I would like to announce a few theories I have been trying tho inform. These are not facts but I am the worlds biggest tyrannosaur fan and I am convinced some of these are true 1.Nanotyrannus was indeed a juvenille tyrannosaurus
2.This one is unlikely bt could it be possible that WE evolved from the tyrannosauroids?(I have too many reasons to list so if you are questioning this PLEASE feel free to e-mail me at c@#@)
3.Tyrannosaurs were more than able to swim but did it well.
4.That the tyrannosauroids had vision more like a dogs than a frogs.
5.That the arms were used to gash deep wounds in thier prey making it bleed to death.
I have many more and reasons for each and every one so I am begging you to e-mail me withany questions or doubts. #@#@#@

from Kat R., age 14, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000
Sorry, but the FTC (Federal Trade Commision) does not allow us to list kid's e-mail addresses. JC

It's an honour to be featured in Dinowarz.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

Everbody has a right to like his own dino. Its only when he or she starts insultion other dinos where the FUN STARTS! LET'S PARTY!
from Honkie Tong Ka Fong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

No more yo,yo whatzup! i'm leaving! i will not be chating here any longer! bye! and i still like raptr!
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

Of course I want more DinoWarz. I'm currently considering writing my own dinosaur battling episode featuring some of my own favourites. Look for it soon on the voting board, since I don't think we can control the formatting as well here. (I just pressed ENTER twice, does it show up?)
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 17, 2000

Brad, Just typing returns won't make HTML put in a break - sometime, if I see it, I'll add a break or a paragraph marking. If you want to add a return (a line break) yourself, type <BR>; if you want to to start a new paragraph, type <P>. JC

i got your message, Suzie! i'm glad you're alright, and i'm glad you're babies are alright too!
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

Right, if Avialae was the ancestors of true birds it would also include them, or we wouldn't use it today. Aves is a taxon within Avialae though, they are not synonyms. Alvarezsaurs are cool. Dann Pigdon has a great picture on his site of the 6-metre alverez Rapator ornitholestoides, perhaps Megaraptor and Rapator are close relatives. Do the smaller alverzsaurs (Mononykus, Alvarezsaurus, etc.) have raptor-mimic claws though?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 17, 2000

(Continuation on last post) I don't think Megaraptor could be a ceratosaur..there are certain features of it that stand out as quite coelurosaurian. Also, Noasaurus differed from the coelurian deinonychosaurs in how the sickle claw was built; Noasaurus had a depression where the flexor attached (muscle) and deinonychosaurians and troodontids had a knob. Megaraptor had a knob, like the deinonychosaurs.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

Brad: Avialae contains "real" birds and "near birds"'s another name for "Aves" if that helps. Megaraptor's estimated size is up to 8 m for a deinonychosaur, probably only 6 m for a bird..but that is still quite large. In fact, it probably didn't look much like a bird, maybe it resembled Alvarezsaurus in having a long tail and stuff like that. I guess we'll never know unless we find a complete specimen of either Unenlagia or Megaraptor.
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

Roarrr what?
from Suzie, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 17, 2000

yo, is Suzie there? i got a message for her! please reply so i know!
from coolcat, age 5,000,000, ?, ?, ?; October 16, 2000

yeah i know, it was easy Brad! i've known those since kindergarden! thanks for helping me! new question: what are the parts of the plant's cell? hint: three of the parts are the same as the animal cell! yo,who wants more dino warz!?!
from coolcat, age 5,000,000, ?, ?, ?; October 16, 2000

No Brad, they really found the arms. Nobody had even suspected that bird had arms until they found it. Wish you had that issue didn't ya?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 16, 2000

Have they found the hands of the terror bird, or is it just speculation? I really wish I had bought that issue of Discover magazine instead of just glossing over it in a store...
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 16, 2000

I thought avaialans were "near birds", not "birds". Could Megaraptor be of any relation to the abelisaurian ceratosaur Noasaurus, another Argentinian dromaeosaur mimic? There's something about an 8-metre bird that doesn't sound right.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 16, 2000

Nucleus, Cell Membrane, and Cytoplasm (I knew two of those without asking anyone!) I've never heard of Vasco da Gama, but I might be able to help if I knew the category. is a very schoolwork-oriented search engine that isn't bogged down with tons of unrelated ads, you might try going there. Plus, they have a cool little poll.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 16, 2000

Did you hear about this theory about the tyrannosarids driving the raptors into decline? As the theory goes, as the tyrannosauids rose in the fossil record, the raptors started to decline suddenly. In fact, there were very few species of raptor left by the K-T. Odd, you expect such a smart, fast predator to sweep away any competition.
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 16, 2000

Coolcat, no offence, but we are starting to tire of your antics.
from Jamie Yeo, age 12, ?, ?, ?; October 16, 2000

Did you know the dinosaurs were recreated about 10llion years after the K-T extinction. In a weird evolutionary experiment, one giant predatory bird of that time actually spotted hands instead of wings, crossing the divide between the Avian and non-avian dinosaurs.
from Damean, age 14, ?, ?, ?; October 16, 2000

One thing I have learned from this page is that T.Rex is unstoppable. The more hate-posts we send about him, the more support pours in from his fans, he is THAT popular. hehe
from Damean, age 14, ?, ?, ?; October 16, 2000

Yo, I AM A GIRL! DON'T EVER CALL ME A BOY! Brad you're right again! hey if any of you know any thing about Vasco da Gama please notify me. i have a report coming up and i'm fresh out of info. question: what are the three parts of an animal cell? hint: the parts start with N/Cy/Cell M/. seeya dudes!
from coolcat, age 5,000,000, ?, ?, ?; October 16, 2000

Brad: Yes, they did fix the species name of Utahraptor to ostrommaysorum to agree it into the plural. Honkie: Megaraptor may have been bigger than Utahraptor, and it was either a "raptor" (deinonychosaur) like Utahraptor, etc. or it was an avialan (bird), and a giant one at that. It may be the adult version of Unenlagia...or a relative. Proves how similar dinosaurs and birds can get:)
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 16, 2000

The biggest "raptor" beginning with U in the cooldinos sense was Utahraptor ostrommaysorum (or ostrommaysi, not sure if that got fixed or not). I'm hoping "raptor" doesn't mean a living bird or prey though, because I don't know one of those that starts with u.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 16, 2000

Did you know that T.Rexes led a life of hard bumps and knocks. Virtually every Rex skeleton found had most of its ribs broken and then healed. Most T.Rex show signs of fights woth other T.Rex. WHat a t.rex could do to another t.rex though, is notheing compaired to what a t.rex can do to a hardosaur.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 15, 2000

I think we have to cool coolcat down. He seems to be full of hot air.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; October 15, 2000

Utahraptor, at 6 meters long and almost a ton, Utaraptor was the Tyrannosaurus Rex of the Raptor world. Megaraptor was bigger, but it wasn't a true raptor.
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 15, 2000

from Jean Danker, age 23, ?, P10 98.7Fm, ?; October 15, 2000

Dino Warz 5, its here!
from Billy Macdraw, age 18, ?, ?, ?; October 15, 2000

im in the 7 grade and i need help in science and math can u help me? please be cause i got a f in both of those subjets
from jamie c, age 12, nashport, ohio, nashport; October 15, 2000

yo,suzie i don't mean to insult you, juz trex! hey dudette i used to love trex but not any more. [check the vote place]
from coolcat, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 15, 2000

yes, Brad i do live in Ohio! ask me any quetion or fate me, it is your chioce. check back on sunday or monday. new question, the bigest raptr was----------. it starts with a u.
from Coolcat, age ?, ?, Ohio, ?; October 15, 2000

ROAAAAAR! Who Insults me! Face Bone Crunching death. Coolcat? Coolcat? Oh! I am so sorry, are you alright? I didn't know I was standing on you!
from Suzie, age 67,543,453, Hell Creek, ?, ?; October 15, 2000

Sorry Brad. I mean the damage potential of their predatory hunting weapons when I say so.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 15, 2000

Do you live in Ohio? I am not very good with US geography, but I think that that is near Lake Erie...
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 15, 2000

yes, it does start with O. listen you can answer today or tomrrow i'll be here. also if there is more than one winner i'll write your names down and do a radom draw. all the others will get their prize so don't worry about it if you don't win. this is very important info for contest. the question won't always be about me, it will be about something in the zoom area so look at more sites.
from coolcat, age 5,000,000, ?, O[oops i just gave u a hint.], ?; October 15, 2000

ahh! oh sorry! i just lost some batteries to the remote! [i know this is the second time today i've written!]as you know i am coolcat,or coolgirl if you've seen that on another site. i juz want u to know more about me. i am a girl.[duh!] i take dance classes! don't every answer my questions on any other day but friday,or saturday, otherwise I won't be there! i live in --------------- state! anyone who can answer this question will get a saturday of me answering all your SCIENCE ONLY questions! Maybe ther is a test coming up. need some hints? ask me! i will give out a hint on sundays! todays hint is it is near lake erie.oh, did you like my song all you ratr lovers? oh and all you trex lovers when you answer type questions or your fate. your fate is when i have to type i love trex 10 times! one rule for the contest don't put ?. there are to many ?s. juz make up something. bye, see you on sunday!
from Coolcat [please put on chat board!], age 5,000,000, ?, ?, ?; October 15, 2000

Yo,a place where I can finally talk about how awsome that coolcat raptr is. Yo dude he had big claws! But ya'll know that!Dude there are utahraptrs, which are on a scale of big and really big they are whoo what was that! There are many others like the man, raptr! And that loser [with a capital L!] trex don't stand a chance when he comes against a pack of raptrs! So yo trex go find your own domain, this is the raptr's! yo, yo, go back to where you came from!

Here is my song;[it's a rap]

yo,yo! whatz up!
raptr! r-a-p-t-r! r-a-p-t-r!
they had big claws and that's a fact!
yo,yo whatz up!
raptr! r-a-p-t-r! r-a-p-t-r!
they ate every thing in sight and that's a fact!
yum, yum whatz up!
raptr! r-a-p-t-r! r-a-p-t-r!
and i could go on and on!

from Coolcat, age 5,000,000, ?, ?, ?; October 15, 2000

Dinosaurs had "firepower"?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 14, 2000

Geeze, we don't need any dino DNA to make dinos. Just geneticly alter a flightless bird with a wishbone to lose its feathers, have scales instead, have alonger tail and arms. Ta ta a dinosaur!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 13, 2000

If Gigantosaurus really had to claim the throne from T.Rex, it would have to figh hard for it. T.Rex, only being four feet shorter and a ton lighter had more firepower, brains, speed and agility. It would be a bloody battle, but T.Rex would have bitten Gigantosaurus to death. T.Rex relied on carefully placed brute force to kill while Gigantosaurus relied on cutting and slashing flesh to kill. Rex was a one-bite, one kill animal while Gigantosaurus was a multiple bite killer. Morever, Gigantosaurus was slower and less agile, with alot less attitude to match. So those "new king of dinosaurs" arguments must be put to rest. Long like the King of Tyrant Dinosaurs. The only land based meat-eater T.Rex could not beat was probally Tyrannosaurus Imperator. But them again, we are not sure if that's a seperate species or just a "trophy sized" T.Rex. Enjoy.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; October 13, 2000

One thing odd about Gigantosaurus, is that even though it is bigger, it did not carry as much firepower as Rex why? Why did rex, being smaller, carry way more destructive firepower than Gigantosaurus? Does this mean they hunted differently? I can't see how this helps Gigantosaurus, having all the bulk but lacking all the firepower or brians to make it worthwhile. Gigantosaurus seems to be primitive compaired to T.Rex? One on one, who would win (assuming we could pit them together) Mabye size dosen't really matter in this case if you are a giant wuss.
from Timmy, age 9, ?, ?, ?; October 13, 2000

I don't think that if I was introduced to a wider viarity of dinosaurs, I would have had another dinosaur as my favourite. T.Rex was juz too good. I have also noticed most of the reasons T.Rex fans give for liking T.Rex have changed from biggest to meanest, strongest, smartest, deailest meateater.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 13, 2000

Not really, the Velociraptor claw is smaller than the T.Rex maximallary tooth. The biggest T.Rex tooth was the size of a Utaraptor claw.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 13, 2000

I'm doing a school project on dinosaurs. I'm doing it on the Jurassic period. I really need info on vegatation that time, also Land forms, Climate/weather and time period. If you could get me as much info, that'll be grate! This project is due in 1 week, please hurry!!!Thanks!!
from Monica P, age 12, Vancouver, B.C., Canada; October 13, 2000

Would you know if there are any web sites about dinosaurs and their LAND FORMS?
from Monica P, age 12, Vancouver, B.C, Canada; October 13, 2000

velociraptor have very long toe claws
from thomas v, age 11, Souix Falls, South Dakota, usa; October 13, 2000

Tinker is clearly a T-rex because of his teeth. Tinker's teeth have tall, conical, slightly recurved anterior crowns… these crowns are taller relative to diameter and more circular in cross section than any other member of the tyrannosaurid family; Tinker's lower jaws hold a single nipping tooth and 12-13 tooth sockets (per side).

Whew, that's a mouthful…it means, in short, that T-rexes have very distinctive teeth, Tinker has those same teeth…so Tinker is a Late Cretaceous T-Rex and not something else.

The fact that Tinker has the same teeth as an adult T-rex plus the fact that there is no indication of Tinker having had different `baby teeth' tells us a lot. Tinker must have eaten the same food as the adults. (There were some acid eroded and etched duckbill remains mixed in with Tinker's bones, indicating his last meal. It would have been a meal identical to what his parents would have eaten.)

As an example of what this means, today, baby crocodiles have totally different teeth than adults. The baby teeth are needle sharp for snagging insects, frogs, and other small prey. Their parents don't feed them, they look out for their own dinner. Tinker doesn't appear to be like that at all. And this is where one can speculate on T-rex social/family behavior…

Did Tinker's parents feed him? It would seem so. It is possible that Tinker could have begun to hunt for himself but he was pretty young. Mammalian predators today, at Tinkers age, don't hunt. One or both parents, prepares their food for them (I guess you could say). So were Tyrannosaurs like modern lions or leopards? We don't know, but finds like Tinker might help us answer these questions and many, many more. More importantly, Tinker will help us find new questions to ask.

We don't know how Tinker died though we hope to find out. Maybe Tinker was killed by a pack of Nanotyrannus (Nano's were probably cousins of T-rexes); many shed Nano teeth were found with Tinker's body…Nano teeth are sharper and more delicate than rex teeth. Did they kill Tinker, or just feast on a convenient food source? We'll let you know what we find, as we find it.

The simple presence of Nano teeth is interesting and is a great example of new things that Tinker will be able to tell us…When Nanotyrannus was first discovered many scientists insisted it was a young T-rex, not some midget distant cousin (Nano's were probably only half the size of a full sized rex). So much for that theory. Tinker's teeth are every bit T-rex, not at all like Nano teeth. We will be learning many more things similar to this as more of Tinker is freed and examined…and not just about Tinker.
from Kid, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 12, 2000

The reason we hardly hear about the social life of Tyrannosaurus, is that until recently, there has been little clue as the the social behaviour of Tyrannosaurus. It was not until recently, with the discovery of the Albertosaurus pack that clues about how Tyrannosauids behaved. The discovery of Tinker the kidrex, also provides some clue to the social behaviour of Tyrannosaurus Rex as he had the teeth of a adult Tyrannosaurus, but not the size to use them. Most reptiles who are abandoned at birth have an entirely different set of teeth, to help them hunt insects or small prey. Tinker did not have such teeth, giving rise to a theory that Tinker was taken care of. Acid etched hardosaur bones also help to support this theory. True Tinker could have scavenged a Hardosaur, but he was found near Sue and yet another T.Rex, giving clue that this could have been a family group that died during the flooding of a river.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 12, 2000

New theory, the problem with Tyrannosaur(I mean the Tyrannosaur Family in general) was that they are usually found alone, which is not strange, as it took nothing short of a natural diaster to finsih an entire Tyrannosaur pock, they were that powerful. However, recently, they have found a giant heap Albertosaurus, young and old, indicating pack behaviour who all died in a flash flood. Sue the tyrannosaur was also found near Tinker and another "male" Tyrannosaur, indacating that T.Rex had at least a family group stucture. A lot of T.Rex bear many scars of battles with one another, which is the last thing you expect to find on a fossil of a solitary hunter with tens of square miles of hunting space. The Velociraptor is a suspected solitary hunter as no packs have been found. In fact, the lack of teeth near the Velociraptor vs Protoceratops fossil shows that they died alone and no other Velociraptor ate them, this points towards elociraptor being a sol! itary hunter.
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 12, 2000

What is the case for a tyrannosaur pack? I'm barely aware of any evidence for that at all. Why isn't it in the books?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 12, 2000

The case for a Tyrannosaur pack seems pretty convincing.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 11, 2000

Some creationist are okay. Some are discustingly non-scientific pretending to be, some even believe that evolution happens. Like the Evolutionist camp, there are many sub divisions. However, I believe evolution did happen, but it was a far more complex process than we have thought and in some cases, it seems to be directed.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 11, 2000

Hey do you know that some-though-to-be T.Rex bite marks are too big to be made by T.Rex? Some suspect Tyrannosaurus Imperator really was that big after all! Though T-Imperator died out before Rex
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 11, 2000

If they believed Tyrannosaurus was a herbivore, that's a great insult to a great predator, common, give God some credit for his genius! The Tyrannosaurus bite marks throw the herbivore theory right out of the window. How did they enen come up with such a theory in the first place?? Why do some still believe it?? They are badly deculuded in this case.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 11, 2000

I guess for kids nowadays, size does not really matter, they want a balance of big and mean. Tyrannosaurus fits the bill with its size, amazing agility and incredible bite force. In short, other carnivorees are bigger but they did not have the firepower packed in Tyrannosaurus' weponary. The only monster that exceed Tyrannosaurus in sheer carnivorous firepower is that giant sea reptile in Walking with Dinosaurs. But then again, as its a sea to land compairsion, it is not really valid. Gigantosaurs and other super-allosaurs are known to make groove marks on prey bones, but only Tyrannosaurus have been known to puncture bone so dramaticly. I guess Tyrannosaurus scores the highest in the carnivore exam. A cool name also helps alot.
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; October 11, 2000

Yeah, but I want it to be more "non-avain". Who want's a piece of Tyrannosaurus?
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 11, 2000

Hey Chandler, I'm Dinodex's 1200 th visitor!
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 11, 2000

Tyrannosaurus is popular because it is one of the first dinosaurs every kid is introduced to. Most younger T-Rex voters just don't know about the wide selection of dinosaurs there are. PS: Is Saurophaganx or whatever valid, and is it bigger than T. rex?
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 11, 2000

If we could clone Tyrannosaurus and Allosaurus, I hope they could live healthy lives and not be constantly forced to fight... I guess it depends on who the sponsor was.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 11, 2000

TECHNICALLY, You could buy an non-genetically modified avian from any petstore and it would still be a dinosaur anyway.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 11, 2000

Oh, some creationists thought that since dinosaurs supposedly coexisted with humans, (everyone knows they didn't), they had to be nice. Or something like that. They were probably watching Barney or something. I read a little creationist dinosaur book in a bookstore once, and their ignorance to real science is pretty disgusting.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 11, 2000

Hey, what is this "creationist" theory I here about Tyrannosaurus being herbivores?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 10, 2000

OK Triceratops was the biggest of the Ceratopians, the Ceratopians were a bunch of frilled, quadiped dinosaurs of relatively low intelligence. Triceratops(which means three horned face) has three horns on its head frill. Triceratops, probably the world's second most popular and well-known dinosaur, is known from far fewer skeletal specimens than its famous contemporary, Tyrannosaurus rex. Although considered a common dinosaur, its fossil record is comprised almost entirely of skulls and isolated skeletal elements. The only mounted Triceratops skeletons in the country today are composites of two or more individuals. Probably the best mounted Triceratops currently on display is at the Science Museum of Minnesota in Saint Paul. It, too, is a composite skeleton created from two individual specimens collected from two separate sites in Montana. The first and only articulated Triceratops skeleton (called Raymond) collected was discovered in western North Dakota in 1994. A resin cast of that skeleton is presently on display in Disney World's Dinoland Exhibit in Lake Buena Vista, Florida.

This most recent specimen of Triceratops horridus appears to be one of the most complete skeletons collected to date. Collected in three large blocks and 100+ smaller packages, more than 50% (by bone count) of the skeleton has already been identified. At the time of this writing, KELSEY's virutally complete skull, left lower jaw and predentary, a large number of dorsal and cervical ribs, many dorsal vertebrae, two caudal vertebrae, several cervical vertebrae, nearly all of the pelvis, both femurs and one tibia have been seen in the field or during preliminary preparation. The state of preservation of all the skeletal elements is excellent and preparation is relatively easy.

One truly spectacular element of this Triceratops discovery is the virtually complete and articulated skull. KELSEY's skull measures six and one half feet long. As a live animal, KELSEY stood about seven and one half feet high, probably grew to twenty four feet in length and weighed nearly six tons. The skeleton was preserved in a flood plain about 65 million years ago, near the close of the Cretaceous Period, the last "Age of the Dinosaurs". --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 10, 2000

im derek im needing to get a report on the trysaratop for school please help me im counting on you
from derek, age 9, marshall, michigan, marshall; October 10, 2000

THis is no Jurassic Park, but I think it is possible to bring back the dinosaurs in some way. As we have the technology to graft DNA fragments to other animals, why can't we do the same for dinosaurs? Fossilisation does not totally destroy DNA strands. these could be extracted, amplified and grafted onto say, avian DNA? What we are hoping for is not a real dinosaur, but a hybrid, more avian than on-avian, but with some distinct dinosaur features...its worth a try. Want one as a pet? Technically, it could be considered a dinosaur.....
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 10, 2000

I guess if we could clone T.Rex and Allosaurus and pit then together, T.Rex would win 10 times otta ten?
from Leonard, age 12, ?, ?, ?; October 9, 2000

I donno, a Stego had less physical dexterity than other dinosaurs because it had such a small brain working so much body. An Allosaurus could easily steer clear of the Stego's letal arc while attacking. In fact, I don't think a Stego could hold its ground against a determined Allosaurus. The plates were made of bone and could have been used for cooling or as display to threaten predators or communicate with other stegos, but as armour, the plates would not have been very useful. I suppose to make up for its short comings, Stegosaurus stayed in a herd for protection. The plates would have made it harder to attack though, as they were made of bone.
from Honkie Tong Ka Fong Francis Ong Su Ka, age 16, Singapore, ?, ?; October 9, 2000

Oh, of course Tyrannosaurus Rex was a more advanced species of dinosauria. Tyrannosaurus had many advantages over Allosaurus. It was a more efficent eater, more intellegent and far more complex. We also suspect it was a more efficent runner, meaning it took less effort to do the same amount of work as the allosaurids. Pound for pound, Tyrannosaurus is certainly a long way ahead of Allosaurus.
from Levine, age 24, Cambridge, ?, ?; October 9, 2000

Woah, T.Rex is certainly more advanced. Bigger brainsize, greater intellegence and more efficently toothed and muscled. Of course it's more advanced. It's like compairing a F-15 Eagle (which is still good) to an F-22 Lightning (Best)
from Honkie Tong, age 16, Singapore, ?, ?; October 9, 2000

does anyone out there know of a website that will give you images of the geological features of the earth in stages as it progressed threw time.
from georgiaT, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 9, 2000

i think that the stegasaurus plates were used primarily for cooling and warming of the body. Reason i think that? because the stegasaurus plates were rich in blood supply veins surrounded by soft tissue and skin. plates may have been used to make the animal look larger to predators. but not as a defense mechanism as some would conclude. because if they used them for defense the animal would bleed perfusely if the animal stuck out these plates to a predator. the spikes i am sure would do the deed if warranted. the stegasaurus could move its body in a way that the plates would be perpendicular to the suns rays to warm the blood that would warm the body on a cold day. just the opposite on a warm day. any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
from georgia T, age 34, ?, ga, us; October 9, 2000

what has brought you to the conclusion that t-rex was any more advanced than the allosaurus. do you think that just for the fact that allosaurus was 80 millions years before the rex in evolution that he was somehow more advanced. you must have some basis for your conclusion. what feature differences in T-rex would bring you to that conclusion.
from georgia T, age 34, ?, ga, us; October 9, 2000

Stegasaurus is really cool because it can crush things.
from Will C., age 11, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, America; October 9, 2000

Wow, Tyrannosauruses were meaner than I thought!
from Leonard, age 11, ?, OK, America; October 9, 2000

Dino Hunter Phil Currie's vision of tyrannosaurs is horrifying: Packs of monsters that stayed together to slay together

by Josh F.

"For many years we lacked any information about the behavior of tyrannosaurs and other big carnivores," says Currie, relaxing on top of one of the many ridges in the badlands of south-central Canada. (Michael Sexton) To understand why Phil Currie stands shaking on top of a ridge in a desolate Canadian wilderness, contemplating whether to drag himself to the next ridge hundreds of yards away and risk dying of dehydration or to turn back, you need to know only one scene from his childhood: He is six years old, sitting at the kitchen table. He opens a box of Rice Krispies and out plops a plastic dinosaur. Imagination shifts into high gear and the rest of little Phil's life is defined in a moment by creatures that have never been seen by humans. "I was hooked," he says. "They were real. They weren't mythology. They were the biggest, the strongest, the fastest."

So that is why he is here, in Alberta's badlands, with the temperature pushing above 105, shading his eyes against the searing sun with one hand and thrashing at blackflies with the other, studying the desolate landscape of fissured earth.

He opens a leather satchel and pulls out a photograph taken by another fossil hunter nearly 90 years earlier. He looks at the ridge, looks at the photo, looks at the ridge. "You shouldn't do it," he mutters to himself. "That's just nuts. You should go back to camp." Indeed the rest of his group, including his wife, had turned back hours ago.

"For about 15 minutes I kept talking to myself," he remembers. " 'Should I do it? Should I not do it?' I finally decided I had to try." Currie believed the ridge ahead was worth the risk because it might be the site of a nearly forgotten treasure trove of dinosaur bones. And those old fossils could bolster his theory that two-footed carnivores like Tyrannosaurus rex and Albertosaurus traveled in packs, with fleet youngsters driving prey into the powerful jaws of waiting adults.

Joined by his trusted sheltie, Seven, Currie studies an aerial photograph during a return visit to the badlands site where he unearthed ten albertosaurs of various ages. (Michael Sexton)

"Most people have thought of carnivores, especially the big ones, as solitary animals," Currie says. "The idea of ten or so tyrannosaurs coming at you at once is much more scary than thinking about just one. Not so much because of the adults but because of the juveniles. They would have been fast, nasty little animals."

Currie theorizes that lean-and-mean Albertosaurus youngsters cornered prey for their voracious but relatively slow-footed elders. (Alfred T. Kamajian)

Perhaps Currie's vision was prompted by the fact that he himself is so nimble. At 50, he still delights in planting his hiking boots at the top of a 100-foot, 60-degree sandstone slope and skiing down in a cloud of dust. And he is relentless, a hardened adventurer who always goes on to the next ridge. "Phil is driven," says Bruce Naylor, director of the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Drumheller, Alberta, where Currie is a staff paleontologist. Currie's wife, paleobotanist Eva Koppelhus, sums him up with one word: determined.

"I love the detective aspect of trying to understand something that isn't around anymore," he says. "And when you suffer some of these, well, hardships--sun, heat, rain, bugs, cold--you have a better appreciation for life." Particularly forms of life that vanished eons ago.

Long drawn to tyrannosaurs "because they were so dynamic and came in many varieties," Currie is perfectly located in the badlands that stretch from Alberta down through Montana and Wyoming. The area is prime ground for fossil hunters seeking tyrannosaurs, including the 40-foot-long, seven-ton T. rex and the slightly smaller Albertosaurus. The region was also once home to the sharp-clawed and birdlike Velociraptors, ostrich mimics such as Ornithomimus, and duck-billed plant eaters called hadrosaurs.

Most tyrannosaur skeletons recovered over the years from the badlands have been found in isolation, reinforcing the traditional view that they were solitary hunters or scavengers. To prove otherwise, Currie needed to find a site offering clues to interaction among tyrannosaurs, which is why he tried to find that elusive next ridge, the one paleontologist Barnum Brown had walked along back in 1910.

Brown, dubbed Mr. Bones by newspaper reporters early in the century, had discovered the first known Tyrannosaurus rex in 1902. On one of many expeditions sponsored by the American Museum of Natural History in New York, Brown followed the Red Deer River through the Alberta badlands and opened a small quarry on the side of a ridge. There he collected several bones from what he described as young tyrannosaurs and ostrich mimics. He intended to return to the quarry, but farther downstream he happened upon an area littered with so many dinosaur bones it kept him occupied for years to come. That fossil-hunting ground, now known as Dinosaur Provincial Park, is the source of many of the dinosaur skeletons in various museum collections around the world.

During a visit to the New York museum's collections in 1996, Currie rummaged through the basement in search of bones Brown had collected at the abandoned quarry. "Brown said he'd collected both juvenile tyrannosaurs and some ornithomimids," he says. "We don't have a lot of juvenile material, so I was pretty interested." Currie did not expect to be surprised. "I pulled open one tyrannosaur drawer and said, 'Hey, these aren't tyrannosaurs! They're ornithomimids.' Then I compared them with bones in another drawer and realized, 'No, these are actually baby tyrannosaurs!''' Although the two groups of animals are related, the ostrich-mimic bones are smaller, and the jaws lack teeth--a feature no tyrannosaur would be without.

More interesting, there were grown-up tyrannosaurs as well as youngsters. The mixture opened up possibilities. There was the chance, with a group of beasts, to learn about something that had been difficult for paleontologists to get a handle on: social lives. Activity, unlike bones, doesn't fossilize, but if the beasts died together, they may have lived together as well, and Currie thought he had a chance to dig up some clues about group interactions. "I just knew Brown couldn't have excavated all the remains and that there must be more," Currie says. "So I knew we had to find the site."

Unfortunately, Mr. Bones didn't leave much for Currie to go on. "Brown wasn't very good at keeping field notes, and he was exceptionally bad that year," Currie says. "He'd lost his wife to scarlet fever just before he went into the field, so he wasn't really concentrating."

Currie did have two photographs. One was of the camp. And the other was of the site itself. There were also some vague descriptions in letters Brown had sent to Henry Fairfield Osborn, his boss at the museum. "My dear Professor Osborn," Brown had scrawled on some notepaper with museum letterhead. "We are camped at last for about a week about 40 miles above Fox Coulee. . . . We have taken four good hind limbs and lots of caudal vertebrae [tailbones] and some jaw material of Albertosaurus. . . . "

By the summer of 1997, Currie and Koppelhus were ready to go. They had arranged a trip down the Red Deer with the Dinamation International Society, a nonprofit exhibition, research, and education company. The company supplied a dozen or so volunteers, rubber rafts, tents, and food. On August 1 the expedition started at a site called Content Bridge, 60 miles northwest of Drumheller. And they began to float downstream, looking at the banks.

On the fourth day, they found remnants of the campsite where Brown had moored his tent-covered barge by the riverside. Near a place called Dry Island Buffalo Jump, where a century or so ago the natives had driven buffalo off cliffs, expedition members spotted an area that looked just like the old photo. A poplar grove had grown taller, but otherwise the profile of the hills matched. Put Brown's barge next to the bank and the scene could easily have been from 1910. "It's funny," says Currie, "but even after 80 years the main ridge hills don't change that much."

The discovery raised hopes of finding the ridge with the abandoned bone bed. During their years in the badlands, Currie and Koppelhus have become adept at spotting old digs. "You look for sharp angles," Koppelhus says. "Most of the landscape is rounded by erosion. But where paleontologists have dug, there's usually a right angle cut into a hill, with a flat surface beneath it. When you see these contours, you look around for bits of plaster and burlap that would have been used to put protective jackets over the fossils. Sometimes you can even find bits of old newspapers."

By midday, however, Currie's colleagues were so drained by the heat they were ready to abandon the search. "It was our last scheduled day in the area," he says. "We went out in the morning, and everyone underestimated how much water to bring." But when the others returned to camp, Currie pushed on: "I couldn't leave, not knowing." Finally, alone, he reached the top of the distant ridge. He looked down and saw the telltale angled cuts made by shovels. At long last, he had found Mr. Bones's fossil heap. "If it wasn't for the fact that I was so close to heat exhaustion," he says, "I would have been jumping up and down."

But he still had to get back to camp with the heat and dehydration setting in. On the way, he stopped at a river and tried bending down to unlace his boots so he could go in the water. But his legs wouldn't bend. So he sat on the riverbank for a while, inching his legs closer and closer to his body until he could undo the boots. Wading in the water revived him a bit, and he slipped into camp without anyone's noticing. Quietly he changed into a swimsuit and went back to the river to immerse himself and cool his body. Then he returned to camp. The others had gathered around Koppelhus, who was rereading Brown's old letters, scouring them for location clues. "I said, 'I found it,' " Currie remembers. "And everything just broke loose."

Last spring Currie and his researchers returned to the site for a preliminary excavation, needing to answer an important question: Was this a group of tyrannosaurs from one time and place and not some random collection of bones that had been dumped there by river currents? Currie quickly came to the conclusion that the bones were 95 percent Albertosaurus. "Normally, Albertosaurus is only 5 percent of the fauna in this area," Currie says. "With 95 percent, and all in the same state of preservation, we can be pretty sure that they were together." There were ten, one more than Brown had thought, and they ranged in size from about 15 feet long for the youngsters up to about 30 feet long for the more massive adults.

The key to understanding the interaction among the tyrannosaur youngsters and their elders, Currie says, is the different proportions of the leg bones. "The legs of baby tyrannosaurs are built with ostrichlike proportions, similar to the fast ostrich-mimic dinosaurs. So they were pretty fast," he says. When an animal is young and small, it can have long legs like stilts. But, Currie says, "it gets harder as you get bigger because the stilts tend to break. You get older, and suddenly you have to worry about weight. You add all this weight and muscle, and you have to add more bone to the thighs to support it. That's what happens in adult tyrannosaurs. It happens in humans too. Our proportions change pretty dramatically from childhood to adulthood." And, of course, we slow down.

A mixed group of fast and slow carnivores may have had different roles when hunting prey such as the cattlelike hadrosaurs. "You can't help but imagine these young tyrannosaurs cutting a hadrosaur out of a herd and driving it into the jaws of the big guys," he says. That would help solve something that has long puzzled Currie as he thought about the different Alberta dinosaurs and what ate what. An adult hadrosaur is about 35 feet long, similar in size to a big Albertosaurus. "So a lone tyrannosaur probably wouldn't go after a lone hadrosaur, let alone a big herd. But hunting packs of animals would have strategies for dealing with big herds. They would try to confuse the hadrosaurs, or separate some of them out. These tyrannosaur youngsters were sleek and mean."

Currie pauses, the scene of the hunt fading from his mind. "This is just speculation, of course. There's a whole other side to packing--for raising young. There are interesting ideas that might develop out of this." His colleague Rodolfo Coria has recently discovered a bone bed of a new species of large carnivore, closely related to Giganotosaurus, in Argentina. Currie and Coria hope that comparisons between the sites might yield further insights into social interaction.

Currie also hopes to learn what killed the tyrannosaurs along the river. It's hard to imagine a catastrophe that would wipe out a bunch of strong, dominant dinosaurs all at once. There's no sign of a big flood or volcanic ash that would tell of an eruption. So Currie is going back to the site this summer, although he hopes for a much easier trip. But as someone who divides time into chunks of millions of years, he can say, "You have to take a long-term perspective: the discomfort will stop. The challenge, the mystery, is always going to be there."


Happy Hunting Grounds

A 20-foot-long Albertosaurus towers over visitors at the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta, Canada. (Michael Sexton) The harsh, dry Alberta badlands in south-central Canada don't seem like the kind of place to attract hordes of dinosaurs--or any form of life besides flies and prickly pear cactus--but that's because the scenery has changed quite a bit in the past 75 million years.

"Near the end of the Cretaceous Period, this place would have looked a lot more like the Gulf Coast does today," says Bruce Naylor, director of the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta. "It was lush, with lots of coastal rivers, lagoons, and an inland sea."

The wetlands attracted large tyrannosaurs such as Albertosaurus and Daspletosaurus, along with the smaller "ostrich mimic" dinosaurs and deadly sickle-clawed members of the Dromaeosaur family called Velociraptors. Running this gauntlet of carnivores were massive herds of plant-eating duck-billed hadrosaurs, many-horned ceratopsians, and tanklike, heavily armored ankylosaurs.

Conditions in the wetlands were also optimal for preserving the remains of the dead. Muddy, fine-grained riverborne sediments buried a carcass soon after the animal dropped, sealing it from the assaults of scavengers and erosion. Over time, these sediment layers hardened into sandstone and mudstone and even harder ironstone, piling on the protection. The result: A lot of entombed, intact dinosaurs, sealed and oblivious to whatever disaster befell their relatives some 65 million years ago, wiping them from the planet.

Ensuing years brought a drier, cooler Canada. Ice ages came and went. When the glaciers of the last one retreated, about 10,000 years ago, their meltwaters unleashed fast-flowing streams that cut down through Alberta's sediments like chain saws. They carved the ancient rocks into a labyrinth of steep-sided hills covered with loose rock and deep gullies branching off from central canyons.

Rains came and ground away the soft sandstone at the breakneck speed of two centimeters a year. (In the sturdy world of stone, that's like watching sugar disappear into a cup of coffee.) And with each new rainstorm, new dinosaur bones are revealed.--J. F.


Tyrannosaur Feathers?

The recently discovered Caudipteryx, a tiny ancestral relative of tyrannosaurs, sported delicate, decorative tall feathers. (Michael Sexton) Paleontologists keep uncovering tantalizing evidence of an evolutionary link between dinosaurs, including the giant tyrannosaurs, and modern birds. Phil Currie and geologist Ji Qiang of the National Geological Museum in China, recently coauthored a scholarly report about two small dinosaurs--Caudipteryx and Protarchaeopteryx--that had what looked, for all intents and purposes, like feathers. "These two new animals are part of a group of dinosaurs called coelurosaurs," Currie says. "Velociraptor is also one of these, as are all the ostrich-mimic dinosaurs that keep getting confused with baby tyrannosaurs.The interesting thing is that tyrannosaurs are actually more closely related to these dinosaurs than they are to massive carnivores like Allosaurus."

Tyrannosaurs used to be lumped with other giants into a group called carnosaurs, Currie adds, "but recently there's been a lot of work showing that tyrannosaurs are actually just big versions of coelurosaurs." Despite their size, tyrannosaurs share a lot of birdlike features with the smaller dinos.

These tiny Chinese dinosaurs lived 50 million years or so before tyrannosaurs made the scene. So if they had feathers, and modern birds have feathers, it's quite possible that tyrannosaurs, falling on a family-tree branch somewhere in between the other two groups, had them as well. "There's a very good chance that all of these things, at least in some stage of their lives, had feathers on their bodies," Currie says.

And if tyrannosaurs ran around in packs, Currie argues, the likelihood they had feathers is even greater. "With packs you get social behavior. And with social behavior you have things like courtship or threat displays, and the use of display structures like feathers," he says. It's pretty clear that's what Caudipteryx, with a peacocklike fan spreading out from its tail, was doing; those feathers are the wrong shape and in the wrong place to have anything to do with flight.--J. F.


Bone Puzzles

Identifying random dinosaur bones pulled from the earth is both an art and a science. Having a whole skeleton, especially a skull, makes things a lot simpler. But that's rare, since a carcass is often scattered before it fossilizes. When Barnum Brown ventured to the Alberta badlands in 1910 and discovered a mound of leg bones, vertebrae, and a few teeth--but no complete skulls--he concluded the skeletal remains were from both tyrannosaurs and ornithomimids, or ostrich mimics. Brown shipped the fossils home and never took a closer look.

Phil Currie opened the jumbled drawers of bones 86 years later and lined up all the right legs on a table. In another cabinet, he found leg bones that were known to be ostrich mimics'. A baby tyrannosaur leg is virtually identical to that of an adult ornithomimid. It's about the same size, and since the two dinosaurs were probably closely related, the angles and positions of the leg bones are also very similar. But when Currie looked more closely at the two, he realized that even though the bones Brown found were the right length to belong to ornithomimids, they were all too wide to be anything but those of young tyrannosaurs. "The babies of large animals sort of anticipate how much mass they're going to have to support when they get big," Currie explains. "A baby elephant bone may be the same length as an adult deer bone, but it will be more massive."

Then Currie noticed that the walls of one of the broken leg bones were also too thick to belong to an ostrich mimic, which has relatively thin bone walls, as birds do today. And every animal has a somewhat different pattern of muscle attachment to bones. By carefully comparing the scars from where the muscles were on Brown's finds with those on the ostrich mimics, Currie could see enough differences to assure him that he was looking at a set of fossils that were exclusively tyrannosaurs. --Fenella Saunders

from Josh F., age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 9, 2000

New topic, why is Tyrannosaurus Rex so popular? Any takers? You can sling mud if you want.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, Singapore, Singapore, Singapore; October 8, 2000

Was Ryan talking about, ahem.....that fossilising? Well, I don't think so, but its highly probabble it that they were err, well endowed as the male has to bring his tail into contact with the female's vent. No larger species, it might be impossible to do so as there will be a gap of say, three feet? So I would say they had way to err, deal with that problem. NOW, THIS IS JUST SCIENCE. RYAN, IF YOU HAVE ANY PERVERTED REASONS FOR SENDING THAT POST, I'LL HURT YOU!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 8, 2000

Allosaurus id a cool dino. Personally I like T.Rex better as he was more advanced. But I think I can answer some questions, any?
from HT, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 8, 2000

does anyone out there have any insite on the allosaurus. i know that he had 70 teeth 3 inches long and that there were 9 rows in the jaw. much like the shark. when one tooth would fall out or break out the one behind that one would push through. surrations on the teeth,much simular to shark, were very sharp. and could cut through bone somewhat effortlessly. allosaurus feces have been found that indicate that allosaurus where not selective in eating only meat from the bone but rather whole pieces of flesh. much like a pack of lions or wolves or what have you, that feed on animal flesh, if you were an allosar you had to eat what you could at the time of feasting. eat it and eat it with your guard up at all times. allosaurus is from the jurrasic period dating of around 150 million years. relative in size to the T-rex that everyone seems to be hooked on.
from georgia T, age 34, folkston, ga, us; October 8, 2000

The walling with dinosaurs book, hey I have it too. Cool book! In singapore, sales of dinosaur stuff comes and goes with every JP Movie and dino exbition at the science center. People like me have to grab as much stuff as we can before they are sold out. Do you know that dinosaur models are not avaiable in Singapore, I have been seraching all hobby stores for a quarter of the year without sucess! Grr! In fact, the only dinosaur fossil ever found in Singapore was a tooth. I guess so, most dino sites are at 5 times bigger then Singapore.
from Honkie TOng, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 8, 2000

knock knock whos there? water water who water you doing there
from huda, age 9, toronto, ontario, canada; October 7, 2000

Huh, what did Ryan do? Hey I think T.Rex are social animals so cannibalism is not common but possible. A male T.Rex may kill any young Rex not of his offspring. Like eagles, broodmates may also have killed each other.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 7, 2000

what is your favourite dinosaur??? Mine is the Homelosphale
from ch, age 11, nsw, albery, nsw; October 6, 2000

JEESH, I thought this board was moderated for content like "ryan m"'s last post...!
from Chandler, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 6, 2000
Oops - It got by me (it's gone now). JC

Depends which dinosaur it was, Scott. Anywhere from 65 to 228 million years.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 6, 2000

Ryan, that part doesn't fossilize! LOL
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 6, 2000

Yep, Mary, some dinosaurs probably ate their kids. While there is no proof that dinosaurs ate their own kids, it is accepted that they sometimes did eat kids of their own species. The most famous example of a cannibalistic dino is Coelophysis, but it was probably more widespread than just that one. Lettuce-eating rabbits supposedly eat their own young (although I've never seen that happen, seems suspiciosly like a myth to stop little kids from crushing the bunnies), so it might not have been just the carnivores. In a Walking with Dinosaurs book I have, a bunch baby T. rex eats his sibling, and then his mom. Sick.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 6, 2000

I think your site is cool I am going to check it out every week.
from tyler, age 7, christchruch, ?, New zealand; October 6, 2000

I know everething about dinosaurs exept how they died i wish i did byebye
from log, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 6, 2000

i know everthing and one thing i know is that it is dinosaurs are a lot of rubish.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 6, 2000

dinosaurs did not exsist i am a know it all
from ?, age weirpeir, ?, ?, ?; October 6, 2000

do dinosaurs eat their kids
from Mary B, age 12, lanark, lesmahagow, scotland; October 6, 2000

how old are dinosaurs
from scott, age 12, lesmahagow, lesmahagow, britane; October 6, 2000

how many babys did dinosaurs have at a time
from kevin, age 12, lanrkshire, lesmahagow, bratain; October 6, 2000

Let me guess, is your disc drive full again?
from ht, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 6, 2000
Did you other messages that are not posted here? If so, I'll have a talk with one of the technical people when they come in this morning (it's the middle of the night here right now). JC

Robert T. Bakker may be good, but he was extreme. Though I agree with him that Dinosauria in general were active, I find his views a tad bit too active. I may be a Rex fan but I find the idea of Rex running up to 70+kph extreme. (Though it will put all those scavenger theorys to rest!) Even better, Triceratops overtaking a Rhino. I see his point of view, but what can I say, it takes a Extremeist to change the world but a moderator to make it work. (Here's to your unsung job, JC).

Anyway, I believe Gigantosaurus had quite a different diet from Tyrannosaurus. The fact lies in their teeth. Though bone crunching teeth would be good for attacking unarmoured hardosaurs as the bite goes to the bone, causing extensive damage, they'll be less effective against attacking larger targets, like the Suropods, which were certainly around in Gigantosaur's time. Gigantosaurus' allosaur teeth were specialised at cutting out a wound, not gouging flesh like Rex. Long story short. Like Allosaurus, Gigantosaurus probally attacked Suropods. Which explained the brain size. You don't need too much brains to hunt a dumber creature. Unlike Rex, which was a hardosaur killer. Hunting hardosaurs needs more brain power. T.Rex probally hunted smaller dinosaurs where its killer bite would be very effective.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 5, 2000

My goodness! Polynax is a Triceratops like creature! I thought it was some kind of ankylosaur! A totally ill fitting name for such a dinosaur. I wonder why they chose it?
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 4, 2000

After getting conservative estimates of how much bigger T-imperator was compaired to T-Rex and Gigantosaurus, I drew a picture of T-Rex, then drew another picture of a scaled up T-Imperator next to it. As the estimates range from 15 to 30 percent, I picked 20 percent. After drawing part of its head, I twas immediately clear to me that media overkill or not, T-imperator is certainly the biggest carnivore known to man.
from Honlie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 4, 2000

i like the dino jokes they are so cool! but some of them just are a little corney! Kristin
from Kristin, age 14, i dunno!, cant tell, USA; October 4, 2000

I donno, but I certainly can't argue with the fact that some dinos were certainly very active, warm blooded or not. It's still a win win situtation for the active dinosaur theory. But despite the respiratory turbinate argument, there are still compelling reasons for the warm-blooded theory. But in the end, evertbody agrees that most dinosaurs had some advanced form of controling their body temperature, either through their size, or dark muscle like the yellow fined tuna of through some unknown system lost for ever to nature, much like their form of locomotion, the live birth reptiles, and the walking gait of the giant flying reptiles .
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 3, 2000

What time do the messages stop appearing on the webpage because the moderators have to go home? Where are the moderators based, what is the time diff with that of Singapore? I need to know this so I can put my posts in at your working hours for efficent transmittion. This ain't exactly the ICQ ya know.
from Honkie Tong Ka Fong Francis Ong Su Ka, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 3, 2000
We are located in the western USA (near Seattle, Washington). I don't know the time difference between us and Singapore, but it's huge. JC

BY LEVINE The dinosaurs most of us over the age of 20 grew up with were plodding beasts with pea-size brains. In textbooks and schlocky B films, they were portrayed as little more than souped-up crocodiles, lurching lethargically about on splayed-out legs, hunched over like Quasimodo. Like the modern-day reptiles they were thought to resemble, dinosaurs were cold blooded: unable to self-regulate their body temperatures and dependent on the sun alone for warmth.

The budding paleontologists of today's kindergarten set are being raised on a very different crop of "terrible lizards." Bipedal carnivores, clever and fleet-footed, zip around children's literature in voracious packs. Ninety-foot-long sauropods gracefully rear up on their hind legs in coloring books. And the fierce velociraptors of Jurassic Park are able to fog up a window with their steamy breath--a sure-fire sign of a warm-blooded animal's ability to regulate its internal thermostat under almost any condition.

It is that last revisionist detail that has divided the paleontological world into rival camps. For some, endothermy, the scientific name for warm bloodedness, is the only way to explain the dinosaurs' evolutionary success. Without the ability to keep their bodies at optimum temperatures regardless of their surroundings, they argue, dinosaurs could never have dominated the globe for 160 million years.

Skeptics counter that ectothermy, the proper label for cold bloodedness, was the logical strategy for dinosaurs living in the Mesozoic Era's generally sweltering heat--and, this group claims, the only option that is supported by physiological, rather than circumstantial, evidence.

The revisionist view that has so captured the public imagination has long been led by Robert Bakker, a former evangelical preacher who has defended dinosaur warm bloodedness with sermonlike intensity. As a Yale undergraduate in the late 1960s, he assisted the legendary paleontologist John Ostrom in his landmark research on Deinonychus, an agile carnivore whose sleek skeleton seemed built for a life of speed more befitting a warm-blooded bird than a cold-blooded reptile. Bakker went on to become paleontology's enfant terrible, a crusader against slow-moving, dimwitted, crocodilian dinosaurs. He proposed such self-described "heretical" ideas as a 10-ton triceratops that could gallop past a charging rhino, and brontosaurs that gave birth to live, 500-pound young.

Above all, he painted a picture of dinosaurs that were every bit as endothermic as humans, who manage to keep their body temperature around 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit night and day, winter and summer. Instead of spending their days lazily basking in the sun and occasionally trudging along at a torpid pace, Bakker's dinosaurs--which he wryly termed "nature's special effects"--moved at constant speeds, their postures fully erect in the manner of birds and mammals. "Meat-eating dinosaurs related to Tyrannosaurus rex cruised at 3 to 4 miles an hour," claims Bakker, who bases his conclusion on fossilized footprints. "No turtle anywhere cruises at 3 to 4 miles an hour."

Bakker and his acolytes also point to dinosaurs' relatively fast growth as evidence of endothermy. Mammals and birds, which develop quickly compared with ectothermic reptiles, have bones characterized by microscopic channels that appear complex and crystal-like under the microscope. These elegant patterns form when growing bone meets and meshes with connective tissue, capturing blood vessels in dense, woven structures called Haversian canals. Armand de Ricqlès, a University of Paris anatomist, found that dinosaur bones exhibited those same intricate channels rather than the simpler, less dense structures common to reptiles. "We see the same well-vascularized bone in mammals but not in turtles and crocodiles," says Kevin Padian, a paleontologist at the University of California--Berkeley. "The way the bones grew, dinosaurs seem to have been active all the time." That pace of activity, argue Bakker and his cohorts, is the telltale sign of warm bloodedness.

With Bakker's charisma and de Ricqlès's bone histology work, endothermic dinosaurs quickly became the rage. Books were revised, natural-history museums scrambled to accommodate the shift, and Bakker became a dinosaur superstar, commanding speaking fees of up to $10,000.

Feed me. Although the public fell head over heels for the warm-blooded dinosaurs, many within the scientific community remain wary of Bakker's claims. Since measurements show that endotherms require up to 20 times more food than ectotherms, some question how the gigantic dinosaurs could possibly have eaten enough if they were warm blooded. "Can you imagine if a herd of brontosaurs were endothermic?" asks Frank Paladino, a physiologist at Indiana-Purdue University. "They would have eaten through North America in a couple of weeks." The problem would have been worse for endothermic carnivores, for, as James Farlow of Indiana-Purdue notes, "there's a lot less meat on the hoof than plant on the stem."

Bakker has tried to explain away this apparent shortcoming by asserting that predators were very rare and thus able to feast on ample prey. But, as Paul Sereno of the University of Chicago notes, an incomplete fossil record has made it "very, very difficult to reconstruct the number of predators and prey."

The evidence based on bone structures has come under fire, too. Tomasz Owerkowicz, a young Harvard University researcher, has asserted that the dense canals that de Ricqlès detected could have resulted from physical exertion rather than endothermy. In an ingenious experiment, Owerkowicz gave cold-blooded monitor lizards regular treadmill workouts and then compared their bones with those of nonaerobicized contemporaries. The well-exercised group showed the same kind of complex channels characteristic of mammals, birds, and de Ricqlès's dinosaurs, suggesting that Haversian canals are causally linked to an active lifestyle rather than warm bloodedness. South African histologist Anusuya Chinsamy has also countered some of the bone structure argument, contending that dinosaur bones exhibit bands called lines of arrested growth. These are characteristic of modern-day ectotherms, whose growth rate speeds up and slows down according to seasonal temperature fluctuations. Chinsamy concl! uded that dinosaurs grew at a more reptilian pace than envisioned by the Bakkerites.

Rather than just playing spoilsport, the ectothermic side has sought to boost its case with hard physiological evidence. John Ruben, a physiologist at Oregon State University, believes he may have found the answer in turbinates, tiny whisps of bone or cartilage deep inside the nasal cavities of mammals and birds. These structures make warm bloodedness possible by limiting water loss. When warm, moist air is exhaled, the water condenses on the turbinates; the next breath brings water vapor back into the lungs. "If [endotherms] didn't have respiratory turbinates, there is no way they could lose that much water" and survive, says Terry Jones, one of Ruben's assistants. Turbinates have never been found in living ectotherms--nor in dinosaurs.

Bet on the croc. Although Ruben's team believes they finally have the proof to cool down dinosaurs for good, they deny that they're trying to drag the animals back into lethargy. "Cold blooded doesn't necessarily mean slow and sluggish," says Jones. The Komodo dragon, the world's largest living lizard, hunts deer. "And deer are pretty active," he says. Paladino agrees: "Ectotherms can do some pretty amazing things," he says. "If I put you on a beach with a 15-foot crocodile and you try to get away, I'll put my 10 bucks on the crocodile."

Many on the cold-blooded side now use the term "gigantothermy" to describe the unique energetics of large dinosaurs. Being huge is one way to maintain a relatively constant body temperature despite cold bloodedness: Large things--which have a lot of bulk in relation to their skin area--lose heat to the outside world much more slowly than do small things. Had they been endothermic, argues James Spotila, a biologist at Drexel University, the large dinosaurs would have experienced a "meltdown," as they would be unable to dissipate internally generated heat at a fast enough rate. However, if they were indeed cold blooded, the slow heat loss associated with gigantothermy would allow them to stay relatively warm--and thus avoid a reptilian torpor--when confronted by the night or an overcast day.

In the generally tropical climate of the Mesozoic, ectothermy may have given dinosaurs an edge over warm-blooded mammals, which had to spend a great deal of energy thermoregulating themselves. Since ectotherms require so much less energy than do birds and mammals, "it's a very, very nice way to make a living if you're in an equitable climate," says Ruben. Contrary to the popular belief that warm bloodedness is always the superior strategy, ectothermy might have been key to the dinosaurs' long reign. Saying that endothermy is superior, says Peter Dodson, a paleontologist at the University of Pennsylvania, is just evolutionary "chauvinism."

The warm-blooded camp, however, is unconvinced by the new set of evidence. Bakker says that Ruben's turbinate research doesn't take into account the possibility that dinosaurs could have utilized an alternative, as-yet-unknown structure to limit water loss. "Ruben's argument is like an expert on piston-driven airplanes looking at a jet and saying you don't have a propeller," he says. Berkeley's Padian, who notes that "behavior precedes hardware in evolution," says dinosaurs may have managed warm bloodedness using mechanisms far different from those found in contemporary animals. Bakker believes that chambers found in Tyrannosaurus skulls may have acted as water-loss regulators in place of nasal turbinates.

Bakker also points to fossils that have been found in Alaska and Australia--two of the very few Mesozoic locales where the mercury occasionally dipped below freezing--as chinks in the seemingly ironclad case for ectothermy. "You don't have Komodo dragons in Seattle, walking into Starbucks," he says. Adverse weather would have particularly affected the smallest of dinosaurs--some of which ranged down to chicken size--who couldn't limit their heat loss through gigantothermy. Cold-blooded advocates have contended that hibernation or migration would have been viable alternatives, but those explanations remain in the realm of conjecture.

Unless time machines or Jurassic Park's DNA cloning technique miraculously become realities, the controversy can never be definitively resolved. "I would never say we know for sure, because we can't," admits Ruben. But although the debate will probably never end, there is little doubt as to which side has more ominous implications for our own species: If dinosaurs were indeed endothermic, then their sudden disappearance 65 million years ago may bode ill for a human race that seems to consider itself invincible. "Maybe we have to rethink our nonvulnerability to global change," explains William Showers, a geochemist at North Carolina State University. "We can't take comfort in being warm blooded if the dinosaurs were warm blooded, too."
from LEVINE, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 3, 2000

Cool! Check out the Song for a Tyrannosaur in the Favourites section, its quite good.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 2, 2000

I like dinosaurs a lot. I have found a hole wall of littel dinosaur fossils. I hope we will find a way to bring them back to life.
from Kelby E., age 8, Farmington, New Mexico, U.S.A.; October 2, 2000

How to get your post out: A guide by Honkie Tong of Singapore, South East Asia

As noted, I have noticed some people complaining about failed messages. This due mainly to the fact that the messages here are moderated. If a person sends out a message like:

T.Rex is a $#%$%ing idi@t, all T.Rex fans should eat $%^^%$^!

In the unlikey event this message is allowed to passed, out kind moderator JC will make the message look like this:

T.Rex is a #############, all T.Rex fans should ##########

Get it? Now, most of the posts sent here are posted onto the board. In fact, I haven't seen a single post of mine that has failed to turn up. If you have not sent the offensive message, and your post has failed to turn up, it could be because of.......

.The messages are released at intervals, refresh your page. This is no MIRC chat! .The hard disk is full, thus no messages get through. .You local server has a problem getting through. (Though my messages travel 12000 kilometers without problem due to our goverment's superefficent internet system.) .The webstite has too many visitors, its crashing! .You have missed your question and answer. .People are ignoring your message. .Your modem is a piece of junk, and should be thrown out of the window right now, no pun intended.

These are how you solve your problems. .Try again .Refresh your page .Get a new computer .Emmigrate to other countries or areas with a good ISP.

If your messages are appearing, and nobody is answering, it could because of....

.Your topic is boring
.Nobody really paid much attention to your message
.The question has been asked countless times before....sigh.

What to do.
Simple, a long message with a lot of bold letters will do the trick, here's an example:

I like to read alot and special about Dinosaurs. My first question is:was there such thing called winged dinosaurs? My second Question is:why was it alway told in some books that dinosaurs having wings? doesn't wings make them fly?

Here's how you do it.


Or you could post a message that will invoke a large response like:

I believe that Tyrannosaurus was a scavenger. Many of you will not agree with me, but look at the points, one by one. One: Tyrannosaurus had such thick teeth that they would have had little other use than to crunch bone and scavenge carrion (rotting meat). They would have medium difficulty going into live, tense, flesh. Two: It wouldn't be able to run after prey that could run faster than 30 km an hour. For example, Triceratops could run faster than a rhinoceros, and the ostrich dinos would operate at blinding speeds compared to it. I would post more but I have to eat dinner. I'll be back later.

Be be warned, you could get messages like......

In force tests, Tyrannosaurus could bite up to forces to 12000 newtons in a killing bite. Your point that T-Rex would have had trouble penetrating tense, life flesh due to its thick teeth seems contray to the findings of the experts. In fact, a lot of your points about T-Rex are actually big misconceptions or either conceptions of your fantasy. Long story short, thick teeth do not cause feeding pronlems at 12 kilonewtons of force. T-Rex's teeth were shaped like sabers, which passed easily through flesh one the intial penetration had been made by the tooth tip. Agian, your points seem contray about all we know about T-Rex. You are badly decluded.

I hope that has helped you in your quest in the Dino Talk section....moderators, please, please let this through!
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 2, 2000

Sorry mano. Tyler. No dinosaur could fly. Those were not known as dinosaurs. Check it out. Yes. Some dinosaurs might have had wings instead of arms. Avimimus for example, is suspected to have tiny winglets instead. Like the ostrich, wings do not mean flight. Those non-avian dinosaurs could not fly. No dinosaur could. A dinsaur is an animal that is almost exclusively land-based, is a reptile, and walks with its legs tucked under its body (an improved stance), unlike lizards, which walke with their limbs splayed out.
from Honkie TOng, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 2, 2000

Take a look around. I happen to have the entire collection of the slightly backdated DINOSAURS magazine. I have seen about 10-20 pictures of that dinosaur
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 2, 2000

Sorry Tina, I sinin't see your son's response. Could you try asking again? Sometimes when there is a fierce debate going on, any messages will get lost in the wirlwind of posts arriving. Keep trying. Brad you ready?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 2, 2000
I think it was the questions about winged dinosaurs. JC

is there any one there to answer my questions I have already sent out and my son tyler c has sent out qestions too.Please response?
from tina c, age 28, maplewood, minnesota, USA; October 2, 2000
Your last note was posted almost an hour ago. Your computer (or ISP) is probably caching the old version of the page. You can try to reload the page is this happens to you again. JC

MY son loves to read books about dinosaurs and he also sent in a message in and has not received a response WHY?
from Tina C, age 28, MapleWood, Minnesota, USA; October 2, 2000
This section is moderated (since it's a kid's site and we have to screen all messages to make sure the content is appropriate); messages are not automatically uploaded, so the posting sometimes take a while to go online. As to answers, that's up to other participants in the section - other kids, some of whom are extremely knowledgeable. We have a Question and Answer section in which we answer questions (but again, they are not answered immediately, and only a fraction of the hundreds of questions we get each day can be answered). JC

I like dinosaurs because they're big and strong so they can lift things up! Also some don't eat people. I think the dinosaurs are all gone because they all went away so they won't eat people.
from Grace, age 3, ------------, -----------, U.S.A; October 2, 2000

I like to read alot and special about Dinosaurs. My first question is:was there such thing called winged dinosaurs? My second Question is:why was it alway told in some books that dinosaurs having wings? doesn't wings make them fly?
from tyler c, age 8, maplewood, minnesota, usa; October 2, 2000

I like to read all the time about dinosaur's and all the information on them. my question is: Was there any winged dinosaurs? my second question is:I seen a dinosaur picture that showed it having wings but they say there is no dinosaurs with wings why is that?
from ?, age 8, maplewood, minnesota, usa; October 2, 2000

Yep, Dale Russell suggested that "the animal ['raptor] fed probably on carrion left behind on tyrannosaur kills." I guess we know who's side he's on. Your question on Tenontosaurus is interesting. I don't know of any modern illustrations of Tenontosaurus, which ones are you referring to? Tenontosaurus, being an ornithopod, should have ossified tendons along the back and tail, holding it up. I thought there was Tenontosaurus tracks? Maybe not. The feet of Tenontosaurus are eerily convergent with those of Plateosaurus.
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 2, 2000

Thanks for the article on T. rex species, Honkie Tong! There is even more names than I thought there would be!
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 2, 2000

What did the Mesozoic dinosaurs really eat?

This question has spawned numerous hypotheses from scientists, dinosaur enthusiasts, and fantasy writers. Speculations about dinosaur diets are frequently based on indirect evidence that includes surveys of available food and theories about foraging abilities inferred from functional morphology. Such analyses are important tools that have suggested generalized dinosaur feeding strategies. Even so, indirect evidence cannot tell us which available foods were actually eaten. Did dinosaurs feast on certain ferns? Conifers? Mammals? Each other? We will never completely understand dinosaur food habits, but scrutiny of the fossil record has revealed a number of fortuitous traces of dinosaur feeding activities. These clues are usually rare and often controversial, but they provide us with paleobiological information which can help us better understand dinosaurs and their interactions with other organisms.

from Fossil Assemblages That Indicate Predator/ Prey Interactions Predator/prey interactions can occasionally be inferred from the associations of different organisms in exceptional fossil assemblages. One spectacular find from the Gobi Desert revealed the skeleton of a carnivorous Velociraptor entangled with a herbivorous Protoceratops (Fig. 26.1; Kielan-Jaworowska and Barsbold 1972). The relative positions of the two dinosaurs suggest that they were engaged in a struggle when they died, with the theropod's clawed feet extending into the Protoceratops's throat and belly. Although this association has often been cited as an example of fighting dinosaurs, one report disputes that view and suggests that the Velociraptor was simply feeding on a dead or dying animal (Osmólska 1993). This scenario portrays the Velociraptor as a scavenger that died of unknown causes while feeding. A more recent investigation (Unwin et al. 1995), however, argues that the taphonomic evidence supports the original predator/prey fight interpretation. Particularly tell! ing is the fact that the theropod's arm is firmly locked in the herbivore's jaws -- a position that could not have occurred accidentally. This study suggests that the struggling dinosaurs died simultaneously in a massive sandstorm. The two different interpretations of the event recorded by this remarkable Upper Cretacaeous Mongolian assemblage differ in their characterization of Velociraptor as a scavenger or as an active hunter. Both explanations, however, conclude that the Velociraptor fully intended to dine on the Protoceratops.

Other predator/prey relationships are suggested by associations of theropod teeth with bones from other animals. Dinosaur teeth were continually shed as new ones grew in, so we should expect to find them in feeding areas where vigorous biting accelerated tooth loss. One such probable theropod feeding site is indicated by the discovery of several theropod teeth with a partially articulated sauropod skeleton in the Upper Jurassic of Thailand (Buffetaut and Suteethorn 1989).

Even more compelling evidence for carnivory was found in the Lower Cretaceous of Montana, where fifteen different sites were found to have Deinonychus teeth associated with Tenontosaurus bones (Maxwell and Ostrom 1995). The frequent co-occurrence of these elements and the dearth of Deinonychus teeth in the vicinity of bones from other possible prey animals suggest that the herbivorous Tenontosaurus may have been the preferred prey of Deinonychus. At one particularly distinctive locality (Fig. 26.2), more than thirty-five Deinonychus teeth and skeletal elements from four Deinonychus individuals were found with the partial remains of one Tenontosaurus. The bones were found in fine overbank deposits and could not have been transported by fluvial processes. Thus the assemblage has been interpreted as the scavenged remains of a struggle between a large Tenontosaurus and a pack of the much smaller Deinonychus. The presence of both Deinonychus and Tenontosaurus bones at the site sugg! ests that the prey animal and members of the attacking Deinonychus pack were killed during the struggle and were subsequently consumed (Ostrom 1990; Maxwell and Ostrom 1995).

These skeletal associations tell us much about interactions between different dinosaurs because both predator and prey organisms have been identied. Fossil assemblages suggesting clear examples of predatory behavior are rare, however, and must be carefully scrutinized so that inadvertent associations of fossil bones are not misinterpreted. from Tooth Marks on Bone: The Result of Fighting or Feeding Behavior If theropods dined on other dinosaurs, we might expect to find numerous bite marks on dinosaur bones. While a number of researchers have reported tooth-damaged dinosaur bone (e.g., Jacobsen 1995), the incidence of such traces appears to be considerably lower than that of marks found on bones from communities with large mammalian carnivores (Fiorillo 1991). This discrepancy may reflect differences in carcass utilization patterns (Hunt 1987; Fiorillo 1991) or taphonomic biases (Erickson and Olson 1996). Tooth-damaged dinosaur bone can be recognized by distinctive markings such as grooves or punctures. Although some damage may have been inflicted during intraspecific dominance fights (Tanke and Currie 1995), most bite marks probably indicate carnivory. Identification of damaged bone can tell us that a particular species of dinosaur was eaten, but it generally does not indicate whether the prey was hunted and killed or opportunistically scavenged. In some cases, however, it may be possible to associate different tooth marks with specific predator activities based on the types and distribution of damage. Multiple bite marks on the ends of sauropod limb bones, for example, are more likely to represent feeding traces than assault wounds (Hunt et al. 1994b).

The identity of the animal responsible for bite marks is usually difficult to determine because many Mesozoic vertebrates (including crocodiles) were capable of causing generalized tooth damage to bone. Fortunately, well-preserved tooth marks can occasionally exhibit distinctive shapes, spacing, and/or serration marks that allow comparisons with fossil jaws of contemporaneous carnivores. For example, the spacing of the teeth in an Allosaurus jaw was found to match the patterns of scoring found on bones of an Apatosaurus (Matthew 1908). A more definitive identification was made by using dental putty to make molds of puncture marks found in bone from the Hell Creek Formation of Montana. This clever technique revealed that marks in a Triceratops pelvis and an Edmontosaurus phalanx had been inflicted by Tyrannosaurus teeth (Fig. 26.3; Erickson and Olson 1996).

Even more dramatic are the very rare examples of dinosaur teeth actually stuck in the bones of their prey. In Montana, a tyrannosaurid tooth was found embedded in a Hypacrosaurus fibula (J. R. Horner, personal communication), providing more indisputable evidence of carnivory.
from Levine, age 24, ?, ?, ?; October 2, 2000

3 most intresting facts about T-Rex.

T rex had up to 50 teeth in its mouth. I am not able to give you the 3 most interesting facts. There are too many things I like about T rex and it is not that simple to boil them down to 3 facts.

Here are some I find interesting:

T. rex was a far sleeker carnivore than previous thought, perhaps weighing less than 6.5 tons, no more than a bull elephant
T. rex's principal habitat was forest, not swamp or plain.
T. rex may have been warm blooded, and may be that its body temperature cooled as it matured.
T. rex's arms were shorter than previously thought, but even more powerful.
There appear to have been two forms of T. rex, perhaps male and female with the female being larger and more robust. Here is some other info on T. rex:
(Tyrant reptile)
FAMILY: Tyrannosauridae.
ERA: Late Cretaceous (Campanian - Maastrichtian 83.5 - 65 Ma).
SIZE: 12-14 m (39 - 46 ft).
LOCATION: North America, Asia.
FOSSILS: T. rex; At least 10 skeletons in varying degrees of completeness.
T. luanchuanensis; Teeth and associated postcrania.
T bataar; 5 skulls, associated postcrania.
COMMENTS: One of the largest ever theropods, it stood 5m (16 ft) tall and weighed 6.4 tonnes. Its feet had 3 clawed toes pointing forwards with a smaller one at the back. The tiny arms ended in clawed, 2 fingered hands. The jaw was 1.5m (4.5 ft) long with 18cm (0.6 ft), saw-like teeth. There has been considerable debate as to whether it was a relatively slow scavenger or a fast predator. Estimates of speed vary between 30 and 50 kph (20 - 30 mph). Other evidence in favour of the predator thesis includes its size (no large scavengers exist today), relatively large brain, large eyes with stereoscopic vision, and a keen sense of smell. It may have lived and hunted in family groups. The last of the predatory dinosaurs. First found in 1902. The most complete skeleton of a T. rex yet found, nicknamed 'Sue', was sold at auction by Sothebys in October, 1997 for a record fossil price of $7.62 million to a consortium of supporters on behalf of the Chicago Field Museum, where it will be ! prepared and displayed.

T. rex Osborn, 1905 (type), that includes T. imperiosus Osborn, 1905/Swinton, 1970, T. giganteus Harlan, 1990 (nomen nudum), T. stanwinstonorum Pickering, 1995 (nomen nudum, the famous "Sue"), Dynamosaurus imperiosus and Manospondylus gigas.

T. bataar Maleev, 1955, that includes T. turpanensis Zhai, Zheng and Tong, 1978 and Tarbosaurus bataar. Olshevsky has proposed the name Jenghizkhan bataar for this specimen.

T. luanchuanensis Dong, 1979. Olshevsky has proposed Jenghizkhan luanchuanensis for this species, which he considers a nomen dubium.

T. amplus Marsh, 1892/Hay, 1930 is a nomen dubium included with Stygivenator amplus.

T. efremovi Maleev, 1955/Rozhdestvensky, 1977 is included with Tarbosaurus efremovi.

T. lanpingensis Yeh, 1975 is known only from a tooth and is a nomen dubium included with Tarbosaurus lanpingensis.

T lanpingi Zhao, 1986 is included with Tarbosaurus lanpingensis.

T. torosus Russell, 1970/Paul, 1987 is a junior synonym of Daspletosaurus torosus.

T. turpanensis Zhai, Zheng and Tong, 1978 is a nomen dubium included with Tarbosaurus turpanensis.

T. imperator* Informal name. Still under excavation. Suspected to be up to 20 percent bigger than T. Rex. Tyrannosaurid.

Tyrannosaurids (Dinosauria) of Asia and North America Carpenter, K., Mateer, N. and Chen, P. in ASPECTS OF NONMARINE CRETACEOUS GEOLOGY China Ocean Press, 250 - 268 (1992).
Variation in Tyrannosaurus rex Carpenter, K. in Carpenter, K. & Currie, P.J. [Eds].
Dinosaur Systematics. Approaches and Perspectives Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York etc. i-xiii, 1-318. Chapter Pagination: 141-145 (1990).
Tyrannosaurus and Other Cretaceous Carnivorous Dinosaurs Osborn, H.F. BULLETIN OF THE AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY 21; 259 - 265 (1905).
Gigantic Carnivorous Dinosaurs of Mongolia Maleev, E. DOKLADY AKAD. NAUK. S.S.S.R. 104; 634 - 637 and 779 - 782 (1955).
Tyrannosaurus and Torosaurus, Maastrichtian Dinosaurs from Trans-Pecos, Texas Lawson, D. JOURNAL OF PALEONTOLOGY 50; 158 - 164 (1976).
Tyrannosaurs from the Late Cretaceous of Western Canada Russell, D. NATIONAL MUSEUMS OF CANADA PUBLICATIONS IN PALEONTOLOGY 1; 1 - 34 (1970).
Tyrannosaurus rex from the McRae Formation, (Lancian, Upper Cretaceous), Elephant Butte Reservoir, Sierra County, New Mexico Gillette, D., Wolberg, D. and Hunt, A. NEW MEXICO GEOLOGICAL SOCIETY FIELD CONFERENCE GUIDEBOOK 37; 235-238 (1986).
The Cranial Morphology of Tyrannosaurus rex Molnar, R. PALAEONTOGRAPHICA ABTEILUNG A PALAEOZOOLOGIE-STRATIGRAPHIE 217(4-6); 137-176 (1991). Dong Zhiming.
Dinosaur Fossils from the Cretaceous of South China in IVPP Acad. Sinica, Nanjing Inst. Geol. Paleontol. Acad. Sinica (eds.) The Mesozoic and Cenozoic Red Beds of South China. "Selected papers from The field conference on the South China Cretaceous - Early Tertiary Red Beds" held at Nanxiong, Guangdong Province [24 Nov - 6 Dec 1976]. Kexue Chubanshe [= Science Press], Beijing, China. (1979).
[Stratigraphy of the Mammal-bearing Tertiary of the Turfan Basin, Sinkiang] Zhai, R., Zheng J., and Tong Y. MEM. INST. VERT. PALEONTOL. PALEOANTHROPOL. 13; 68-81 (1978). (In Chinese).

(Brad, you looking for this?)

from Honkie Tong~Again!, age 16, Singapore, Singapore, Singapore; October 2, 2000

I think I will sum up this second debate with the following frequently asked questions and answers: Tyrannosaurus rex
Q. Why are people so obsessed with arguing over whether or not T. rex was a scavenger or a hunter when most scavengers sometimes hunt and most predatory animals I know of will scavenge if the opportunity presents itself? I think T. rex was...BOTH. (scary concept!)

A. Scary thought indeed! Modern day predators are opportunists and there's no reason to think that T. rex was any different. There's always a problem when people try to make an either…or classification. Like extinction theories - why not a combination of factors. Disease spread through dinosaur populations as a result of migration across land-bridges which meant the animals were unable to adapt when the meteor impact/volcanic activity changed the climate (the reverse - climatic change affected the dinosaurs ability to resist disease - could also be true!)

Q1. Is sight or the sense of smell more important to a predator?

Q2. Ever since I viewed the movie, "Jurassic Park", I wondered how we know that the T-rex responds with sight more than it does with its other senses if the only evidence we have to study these ancient creatures are their fossils and bones. How do we know about behavioral and biological actions by just studying an organism's bones and fossils?

A. Actually, the evidence suggests that T rex's sense of smell was more important than vision. Interpretation involves a detailed knowledge of anatomy, physiology, pathology and modern animal behavior. Attachment sites on the bones reveal size of muscles/tendons, you have probably seen TV programs showing facial reconstruction of primitive humans by building up the muscle layers first. We do the same with dinosaurs.
First, while it seems logical that stereovision would be an asset for any predatory animal, it has to be admitted that there are a lot of predators that seem to get by just fine without it. Lizards are usually carnivorous, and only one (Chameleo) has stereovision. However, it is probably fair to say that stereovision does confer an advantage to predators which go after prey which fight back or run away.
Also, I believe that a dog actually has a better sense of smell than a cat. That's part of the reason that a dog's nose is longer than a cat's --more room for olfactory tissue. Cats overcome the disadvantage of a poorer sense of smell by having better vision, especially night vision.
Body shape
Cats are better at sneaking up on their prey, getting very close before they charge. The flexible body of the cat is better suited to creeping along the ground, and their colour pattern provides better camouflage. The dog's strategy is more cursorial - running after the prey until it starts to slow down from exhaustion. The keen canine sense of smell helps dogs to keep track of prey even if they lose visual contact.
Evidence of hadrosaur tail vertebrae damaged by T. rex attacks: There's an Edmontosaurus at the Denver Museum of Natural History that appears to have had a bite taken out of the top of its tail. Ken Carpenter took some thin sections of the neural spines and found a fragment of tyrannosaur tooth embedded in one of them. The fact that the bone shows evidence of healing after it was broken indicates that the damage was inflicted while the animal was alive, and thus is not the result of scavenging.
Hunters versus scavengers
The only animals that qualify as 100% scavengers are vultures - and, of course, they cheat. From 500 meters up, a vulture can see for kilometers in every direction and spot carcasses from far away. They use up very little energy gliding down to feed. You can be a "pure" scavenger, you just have to able to fly. But there certainly aren't any 100% scavengers that live on the ground.I'm not sure I'd say that a predator "obviously wants live prey." I've seen films of lions eating meat that was literally crawling with maggots, and they sure didn't seem to be any less enthusiastic about eating it. In fact, dead meat is really just meat that you don't have to work for. Certainly there are predators that won't scavenge - snakes for example - but I don't think it's accurate to say that in general predators want live prey. (Another problem in Jurassic Park .. when Sam Neill says "T. rex doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt." SAYS WHO?
There is an implication in the film that predators all get within the general vicinity of their prey using smell, then locate it by hearing, and use vision for the attack. While that certainly may be true for some, this sequence is by no means universal. A snake is as deaf as a post, and can't locate its prey by sound. Instead they use a combination of smell, heat sensors, and sight. Birds don't usually use smell to locate their prey, especially hawks which attack from great heights. It would be correct to say that Tyrannosaurus hunting techniques didn't involve the use of arms. Something for Dr. Horner to keep in mind is that lizards, even lizards that go after large prey (like the komodo dragon), attack with their teeth alone and don't use the front limbs at all. If they can do it, so can T. rex, especially when you consider that compared to a komodo dragon, a T rex had much stronger teeth and the advantage of stereovision.

Phew! So we're right back where we started. T. Rex is certainly not a pathetic scavenger, as we said, T.Rex hunted when he had to, and scavenged when it was convient.
from Honkie Tong Ka Fong, age 16, Singapore, Asia, Singapore; October 2, 2000

from cody, age 9, ?, ?, ?; October 2, 2000

Did you know… That my brother is a rare species of dinosaur. Well, not really. But dino's are interesting. If you want to find anything on dino's, then go to google, type in your search, ie. Jurassic period, then it will almost definately (i dunno how to spell definately) come up with a ZoomDinosuars site! So it must be really good. Seeya, Fuzzy Chicken. P.S. Is any other year 6 class doing dinosaurs as a subject?
from Fuzzy Chicken (girl), age 11, Sydney, NSW, Austraila; October 2, 2000

No, I don't think the Raptors were mainly scavengers, though most T.Rex fans would like to think so, as most Raptor fans are in the scavenger camp in this debate. The switchblade claw is certainly designed for killing as it had no use in scavenging. I think the raptors hunted more than they scavenged. They were built for it. Another question. Most dinos didn't drag their tail, but what about Tenotosaurus? That dino had a thich heavy tail but didn't have a counterbalancing head. In fact, mordern drawings of it still show it dragging its tail! Too bad no tracks have be found yet.
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 2, 2000

Yeah, all thanks to that guy Neil. He posted a message to start it all off again. Sigh...... The worst thing is, He is not responding to all the rebutals. Hey, Brad, did you think he chickened out?
from Honkie Tong, age 16, ?, ?, ?; October 2, 2000

Phillip, are you a fan of Walking with Dinosaurs? :) I don't think any dinosaurs have been found in Illonois (although I'm not sure about the non-dinosaurs).
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 1, 2000

Violent debate on T. rex? I thought we finished that a while ago. T. rex hunted and scavenged as it needed to, it was neither a pathetic full-time scavenger or a super killing machine. I don't think there are any carnivores that won't scavenge or kill. (PS. I think it was Dale Russell that proposed 'raptors were mostly scavengers, I'll look into that.)
from Brad, age 13, Woodville, ON, Canada; October 1, 2000

I just love dinosaurs! Most of my firends call me Dinosaur Lady! I don't know why I like dinosaurs.But how they died is what I want to know!
from Emily, age 8, Exton, P.A., ?; October 1, 2000

I live in the Midwest, a few hours away from Chicago. My favorite dinosaurs are Utahraptor, T-Rex, Torosaurus, Ankylosaurus, and Bactrosaurus. I also like Mammoths, Postosuchus,Placerias, Liopleurodon, Cryptoclidus, Iberomesornis, Koolasuchus,and Pterodon. Could I find any of these around here?
from Phillip S, age 10, Sterling, Illinois, United States; October 1, 2000

Hey guys, another Dino Warz installment comin' up to commerate T-Rex's crossing of the big 2-0-0-0
from Bill M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 1, 2000

Austin, I can't disagree with you, Utaraptor is probally the deadilest carnivore.....from the plant-eater's point of view. Utaraptor probally had the highest hunt sucess ration of all. But if you are looking for the offical deadilest carnivore, T-Rex still holds the title, because we are still not sure if Utaraptor hunted in a pack. If Utaraptor hunted alone, it would not be the deadilest dino of all after all. Then again, new evidence does show T-Rex did hunt in packs, making it even deadiler than the any Raptor pack. I suspect though, the Raptors still hold the title of being the deadilest predator to small prey, as T-Rex and all the other big carnivores cannot catch them. Oh yes, Austin, Brad, what is your outtake on this pretty violent debate on T-Rex, Neil, where are you?
from Honkie Tong, age ?, ?, ?, ?; October 1, 2000

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